Handle for 1/4" Detail Gouge?

[Doug Ladendorf]

Recently picked up a Thompson 1/4" detail gouge and I'm planning to make a handle for it. Doug sells handles at 7" and 12" but making my own I can do whatever, so I'm looking for suggestions on handle length. What do you find works well?

Doug

[Grant Wilkinson]

10" +/- for me. A gouge that small does not need anything too long. It's a pretty individual thing.

[Michael Mason]

I have a 12" handle on mine, and for me it is plenty long enough.

[Prashun Patel]

Mine's 12" too. I like the heft of a longer handle within reason.

[John Keeton]

IMO, spindle gouges do not require a handle longer than 8". That length allows a good feel for the cutting edge, and if you are putting more pressure than you feel an 8" handle will permit, you are using too much pressure. Again, just my opinion. I have longer handles on spindle gouges from when I first started turning, and now find the shorter ones are much easier to control. I like Doug's tools, but I like D-Way handles better than Doug's because of the feel of the handle - particularly in the winter. That said, making one's handles is satisfying.

[Thom Sturgill]

I'm with John here. Spindle gouges are usuallty held single handed - no need for a long handle. I tend to grip near the ferule and lay one finger along the gouge. Helps to keep the motion proper and thats the way I was taught when I took a course from Alan Leland.

I also like spindle gouge handles to be thinner. I make my own aluminum handles and bowl gouges get 1" OD tube with a 1-3/8"OD vinyl tubing over that. Most spindle gouges get 3/4" aluminum rod with 1"OD vinyl tubing over it. They are solid and the weight feels good in my hand. My newest ones are 7 to 7-1/2" long, while my first used a tube and a Hosuluk (sp?) adapter. Its end heavy because of the steel adapter, but I can reverse the gouge when I carry it with me. It is 8" long including a turned wooden plug in the end of the tube.

[Ralph Lindberg]

My 1/4 inch is about 8, the 3/8 is about 10. Longer is not always better for detail/spindle work. Both handles started as 1-1/4 (Ash for one, Bubaluna for the other)
I'm a wood turner, not a metal worker, my handles are wood.

[Doug Ladendorf]

OK, so somewhere between 7-12 inches. Great! :-D

I appreciate everyone's input. I tend to make things large but for this I think I may try something on the smaller side. Heck, they are only $25 so it's easy to throw one in the cart next time if I hate it. Hopefully this weekend I will get some time to turn.

[John K Jordan]

Doug is quite generous on the length of his tools - because of this I find the smaller gouges too long for optimum control. I want just a few inches of the 1/4" gouge extending from the handle, enough to clear the rest. To solve this I put the tool in a metal collet (held with set screws) with much of the shaft sunk into a deep hole drilled in the handle. I have metal-working equipment so I make my own collets from steel but they are available from a number of sources. (The advantage of making them myself is I can make the outside diameter smaller so it fits better in my hand, more appropriate for the diameter of the tool.) Using a collet allows a consistent length of tool to extend from the handle even as the length of the tool decreases with sharpening. The collet also lets me remove the tool from the handle to make sharpening easier. In the attached photo the smallest collet is about 5/8" diameter. The commercially available collets I've seen are about 1".

One more advantage of a collet is I generally make one handle and sharpen two or three identical gouges so I can quickly change one as it gets dull without having to stop to sharpen. This removes the excuse to keep using a dulling tool "just a little bit longer" to finish what I'm working on!

For small spindle gouges I like to turn a handle about 8" or so (usually from dogwood or cherry), shaped so I can easily grip it with one hand. (I acutally often use tools for both roughing and detail work on small spindles without handles - this works well, especially for the larger diameter tools.)

BTW, I think the Thompson skew chisels are also too long but that is more difficult to adjust! I generally just cut some length off the end of the skew.

Doug's tools are the best and the steel is incredible! I like to make small negative-rake scrapers from his round rods - especially good for end grain on boxes, bases, etc. I use these without handles. The round rod makes it easier to angle the scraper without raising one side off the tool rest as is necessary with a flat scraper. I've even been known to grind his detail gouges into scrapers but don't tell anyone...

JKJ

[Reed Gray]

Mostly I find a piece of wood I want for a handle, and make the handle that length. With a 1/4 inch gouge, you won't be hanging out more than an inch off the tool rest anyway, so no need for long.

robo hippy

[robert baccus]

I like wood period. I find the metal rings traditionally used at the head of the wood to be unnecessary and unhandy. I turn my handles of very strong and heavy woods such as bubinga, osage, tropical hardwoods and have handles up to 5/8" gouges. They are epoxyed in 2-3" depending on the diameter. I leave the dia. of the wood fairly large toward the end which is rounded. No strength problems here but I don't advise using junk wood either. Lengths are on the long side for balance.

[John K Jordan]

I found another picture which better shows using a collet with a small Thompson spindle gouge. I epoxy the collet into the handle.

311747

[Thomas Canfield]

I have a 1/4" Thompson bowl gouge in his 7" handle and it works well. I use in on my midi lathe for small bowls and also on my Powermatic 3520B to get the undercut rim on bowls to avoid having a long handle hanging off the back of the lathe since I only work from side of bed. I bought it at SWAT 2013 and he engraved the handle at the show.

[charlie knighton]

i like the wood handles.....I have one 7 inch long & one12 inch long both of dogwood....and one 17 inch long of cherry....the 17 has the big size collect and the 7 and 12 have the middle size collect......some days I like the 7 inch and some time I like the 12.......I tend to grip the closer to the tool sometimes.......I like thicker handles than what is with the prehandled tools.....and like to take the tool out of the handle to sharpen which is a great plus to sharpen

[Thom Sturgill]

I found another picture which better shows using a collet with a small Thompson spindle gouge. I epoxy the collet into the handle.

311747
I am not sure that I would classify that as a collet. It is pretty much the same as the Hosuluk adapter mentioned earlier.

[John K Jordan]

>Thom Sturgill wrote: I am not sure that I would classify that as a collet. It is pretty much the same as the Hosuluk adapter mentioned earlier.

Collet, adapter, call it what you want. We have been calling them collets for 20 years and I have seen references to them called collets in old machining books from the 1930's. Merriam-Webster defines "collet" as a metal band, collar, ferrule, or flange, a casing or socket for holding a tool (as a drill bit), first use: 1528.

To avoid confusion, perhaps this can be called "Metal Device To Hold Round-Shafted Lathe Tools Securely In Handles By Means Of Set Screws For Quick Change And Adjustability". On second thought...

Whatever the name, the point here is it is excellent for lathe tools, especially the smaller diameter Thompson spindle and detail gouges which tend to be too long. (IMHO)

Some advantages are:

- A long tool can be sunk deep into a hole in the body of the handle, exposing only the length needed for smaller spindle pieces. This greatly improves the stability and ease of handling the tool, especially when used one-handed as many of us have found is best for many cuts.

- The tool can be removed in seconds for sharpening. While not as important as for large-diameter steel in long handles, removing the tool is still my favorite way to sharpen. When a tool extension from the handle is short it can sometimes be difficult to hold properly in some jigs.

- As the tool length is reduced by sharpening, this collet permits positioning the tool to give the same extension length. A consistent length helps with fine control. Adjusting the extension length is difficult (i.e. impossible) with some other methods, for example if the tool is epoxied into the handle.

- The amount of extension can be changed for different applications, for example, lengthened when working further from the tool rest, say at the bottom of a cove. Note that in this case it is usually better to switch to a larger diameter and sturdier gouge.

- Since the tool can be removed in seconds, when it gets dull it can be swapped in seconds with another identical sharp tool. I usually keep several of each of my most-used sizes sharp and ready to go. I HATE to stop in the middle of a piece and resharpen.

- Since many tools have a similar shaft diameter, different types of tools can share the same handle. For example, I have a variety of small Hunter tools that fit a single handle. This really saves on tool rack space!

- Since some tools vary slightly in diameter, the hole in the collet can be sized to fit the largest without compromising the use. Holding with set screws in this case is a big advantage in this case over the type of slotted, tapered collet typically used to hold end mills and other tools that must rotate absolutely concentric for metal working.

- They can be made in different diameters to better fit the tool. (One size does not fit all) Since I make these myself I can make the diameter of the body appropriate for the tool and handle size. Most of those I've seen available for sale were about 1" in diameter which is great for 5/8" or 3/4" tools but unnecessary and undesirable for smaller sizes such as 1/4". A smaller diameter makes a small tool easier to grasp and so easier to control, especially when used one-handed as mentioned earlier. I can understand WHY they make them all the same diameter but that doesn't mean it's the best.

Of course you get some of the same advantages with one of the many commercial handles you can buy today which hold the tool in much the same way. However, I like wood handles. I dislike the feel of handles made from metal and plastic. This type of collet allows making a comfortable, custom handle from wood very quickly.

I turn these on a metal-working lathe fairly quickly, but I think they can be made on a wood-turning lathe using the tools we all have, although it would take longer. I have made lots of small things from brass and aluminum on my Jet 16-42 using Thompson tools - finials, multi-axis turnings, finger tops, etc. It is important to use the right metal - for example, there is a type of brass that machines better than others. I think I'll try making one of these collets that way and see how it goes.

JKJ

[Thom Sturgill]

I agree they are useful and I turn them from aluminium rod on my Jet 1642, though anymore I just drill rod and epoxy it in larger tube since I prefer the resulting handle.

The definition that I saw for 'collet' implied that it was held in a holder rather than that it held with a screw. Did not mean to upset, just clarify for someone looking to buy a collet.

[Doug Ladendorf]

I like them John. Very nicely done and certainly practical. Some great alternatives and preferences expressed in this thread!

Doug

[John K Jordan]

I made one today on my Jet 1642 using a piece of 6061 aluminum rod. It took longer than on the metal lathe, but still less than an hour.

I turned it with spindle gouge, parting tool, and skew. Drilled and tapped for 1/4-20 set screws and made a handle from bocote. I took some pictures with my phone (not great pictures!) that I might post in another thread when I get time to show and describe the whole process. The photos below are with the Hunter tools I plan to use with this handle.

This collet is just under 3/4" in diameter with a 3/8" bore (drilled 1/64th over). The receiving hole in the handle is drilled about 1/2" dia, 4" deep.

The flexibility of this handle method makes it my favorite method, hands down. I hope to eventually replace all of my handles with these but that will take a while. (the too many tool problem) Good clean fun!


JKJ

[John K Jordan]

>...definition for 'collet'...

I agree, this thing needs a more descriptive name, or I need to find the better name and start using it to avoid confusion. "Adapter" never cut it for me, too vague. The first ones I got years ago were from my good friend Frank Penta - someone in his circle machined them primarily for club members. When I got a metal lathe I realized I could make them a lot cheaper and make them more useful.

For those who have used the 1" diameter, try some 5/8" or 3/4" with a nicely shaped handle - it makes all the difference in comfort and controllability. Note that for the 5/8" size I stick to steel since the wall is getting a bit too thin for enough threads in aluminum, at least for 1/4-20 set screws.

Note that I primarily turn spindles and small things. Big turnings need a different handle design.

JKJ