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Fred Voorhees
04-14-2015, 4:42 PM
In the final planning stages of my bathroom renovation and I have run into a minor snag. Looking for others who may have been in this jam. Tub surrounds - looking around at what's available, I see that most surrounds are now a "direct to stud" installation. However, in reading reviews, many homeowners say that they are flimsy after application. As it turns out...in talking to a person at American Standard....with these applications...it is basically necessary to add studding (I was told every ten inches) to add rigidity to the backing of the surround. I imagine one would end up with eight inch spacing since you would more than likely center additional studs between those already in place. I can't imagine a home that is anything but practically new to have stud centers other than 16" on center. So, I would imagine that my bathroom will have 16" centers. I didn't anticipate this situation, but the selection of surrounds available in the "direct to stud" installation is fairly large and enviable next to the paltry selection of the much simply "glue up" surrounds that would go up against green board. I am perfectly capable of adding studs to accommodate the direct to stud needs, and since I am gutting the bathroom down to the studs...the walls will be open. Just looking for anyone who has gone through this sort of thing with their installations. Anyone?

Chris Padilla
04-14-2015, 5:16 PM
You could add blocking instead if splitting 16" oc studs bothers you. Personally, I'd tile it. :)

Jay Jolliffe
04-14-2015, 5:43 PM
Could you put 1/2" cement board then the surround. That may bring it out to much for the surround to sit right on the tub....

Brian Elfert
04-14-2015, 6:20 PM
The two tub surrounds I installed in my house in 2007 didn't need extra backing, but I also used a bit more expensive surrounds that are thicker than the really cheap surrounds.

Rich Engelhardt
04-14-2015, 6:44 PM
Could you put 1/2" cement board then the surround. That may bring it out to much for the surround to sit right on the tub....
The direct to stud ones can't go over anything. You're correct, if you add wall board then the surround will protrude too far from the tub flange and allow water to get underneath.


he two tub surrounds I installed in my house in 2007 didn't need extra backing, but I also used a bit more expensive surrounds that are thicker than the really cheap surrounds.
Bingo! The good ones don't need any help and all the help in the world won't help the cheap ones.


Personally, I'd tile it. :)
Double line Bingo!! That's what I'd do.

Mike Lassiter
04-14-2015, 6:57 PM
I had to replace a "garden tub" in a mobile home. This was just a part of months long (still not finished) work, and I ended up moving the partition wall between the Master bedroom and bath and well as between the tub and toilet to install a standard tub with 3 piece surround in place of the 54" wide tub that was cracked and rotted the floor underneath it.

I got my tub from Home Depot. Forget the brand, but I had to replace a shower in a double wide a year or so back and got the same brand again because it was very thick and heavy made and reinforced. The first tub was out of square from the floor to the top edge on both ends. Take the tub out of the box and put a framing square against the end of it and the floor. The bottom of the tub was 1/2" away from the straight edge at the lip you fasten it to the studs, but the top touches the square. You cannot just pull the bottom up against the stud as that will break the lip off or crack it where it will show. Remember BOTH ends where like this. We had gotten the tub when we knew we had to replace it, before finding out the magnitude of other problems that had to also be fixed. So when I was ready to start on the tub and wall moving I discovered this. We took the tub back, but couldn't find the sales receipt and as such we lost $99 on returning it to get another one. It had been on sale after we bought it, and they would only refund the lower cost back. So a 60 mile drive round trip to get another tub.

I demanded to inspect the one we got BEFORE leaving the store. Guess what, yea it was the same way as the one I returned. If you framed the walls plumb they would touch at the top edge of the tub bottom on the outside but the bottom front that shows was 1/2" short. Sure glad to have looked before leaving. They had one more that was on top of the rack that they had to get down with a forklift. We opened it up and to no surprise it was also made wrong. I was offered the tub at a $100 discount if I wanted to take it like it was. I did that, and had to shim the walls at both ends to keep from breaking the tub and hardiboard I installed to put tile around the tub.

To get to the surround issue. I had to add studs on the ends to accommodate where the back wall came around the corners to the ends and the ends fit against the back. I used screws to fasten the tub and surround to the walls and drilled holes to prevent cracking them. The material was about 1/8" or more thick and very hard. Not fiberglass, but something like it. What I discovered after fastening all 3 surround parts to the walls was the wide back one is very flimsy in the middle. It is fastened securely to the studs at the top and sits inside the tub bottom part and sort of locks into place. I don't like the back being so flimsy. There is a wide ridge or shelf across the back wall and if you push on it the wall moves. In that area there is NO support against the studs, in fact there is enough room to put a 2x4 flat against the studs in between the stud and the surround. I tired to slide one back there, between the studs on the end walls as they are open. but no way to fasten it to the studs to hold it in place - NOW. Too much trouble to remove everything after spending hours shimming everything to make it work without breaking anything. I also put a very high quality white silicone sealant in the slot or keyway where the ends and back join to make sure that there would be NO water getting through and causing problems. So had I have checked the middle of the back wall before fastening the ends to it, I could have added something so if someone slips and falls against the back surround wall they have something more solid to catch themselves. It maybe fine as it is (and it is installed per the instructions) other than I did not add any studs to the back wall - it is the exterior wall in the mobile home and there really isn't any reason to provide more anyway since the flange on the tub bottom is screwed to the studs and fastened securely as is the surround back wall.
I guess you are like I was, and need the tub to pass through door openings to get into the bathroom with it. If I had known all of the problems I was going to have, I could have gotten a one piece tub, as I had to replace the rim joist on the entire rear side of the 76 foot long mobile home. Along with about 3/4 of the floor sheathing under the outside walls that was rotten inside the walls. Had 7 foot hole in the dinning room from having to replace rotten studs from screws holding the metal framed windows in splitting the studs and letting water leak in for 20 years.

Anyway, the tub and shower I installed both called for bedding in mortar, which I did so once the tub bottom was installed it was there for good. I strongly caution you to check whatever you get before leaving the store and getting it home and find something isn't molded right. You can likely download online the installation guide for whatever unit you are interested in and see about the stud layout. As I said, the only thing I had to change was moving one stud at each end wall to line up with the flange where the back wall and end wall met. The back wall had to be fastened from top to bottom on that stud to secure it, and then the end wall slide into a slot and locked into it. And of course the one to the outside that the tub and surround fastens to has to be in the correct place for the fasteners in the flanges to go in.

Jim Becker
04-16-2015, 9:13 PM
I'd probably do horizontal blocking, either with stud lumber or inset 1-by material by notching, to provide the additional support with out building out the wall.

Then again, I would have bagged the tub and just put a larger shower in. In fact...that was how I designed the MBath in our addition if you recall. LOL ;)

Mel Miller
04-17-2015, 11:26 AM
I got good results with water resistant sheet rock for a backing, then gluing the surround to that. Let the surround (and sheetrock) overlap the top flange on the tub, leave about 1/4" gap, then put a nice bead of caulk in there to seal it all up.

Mike Lassiter
04-17-2015, 3:35 PM
Maybe this picture will better explain my comments.

311714

Look on the right side and you can see the stud required for the wide back tub wall section to fasten to on both ends of the tub. This stud had to be placed in that specific spot for the flange on the back wall to have something to fasten it to the studs. Look at the top flange of the tub bottom also on the right side. You can see it is against the back wall studs (in this case on exterior wall) and at the top you can see the flange of the back wall also against the studs. The area between them has NO support, nor contact with the wall. The ONLY area of the surround wall sections and the tub that contacts the studs is the flange around the top of both and the vertical flange on the ends. The rear wall will move when pushed against if in the tub. I COULD HAVE screwed something across the studs and furred it out so there was SOMETHING behind the tub wall for it to contact. I didn't discover this until it would mean taking all 3 surround walls back apart that had silicone gluing them together. I tried to slip a 2x4 in there ( and COULD but couldn't fasten it with the tub and surround walls now in the way)

All the shims you see crossways to the studs was what I had to do to accommodate the problem with the front tub flange being 1/2" away from the studs so the wall would be flat. Tiling around the tub and moldguard sheetrock to the left of the Haridboard and on the rest of the walls.

Currently got 90 sheets of moldguard sheetrock installed inside and about 20 sheets left to get up. I've tore EVERYTHING out on the outside walls and will have all but about 4 feet on one inside wall replaced (large pantry cabinet built against the wall, and couldn't pull it without tearing it apart) when I get done. Mold was - well everywhere. The wall you looking at was moved about 4" toward you to make the bedroom wall match up with the ceiling about. Vaulted bedroom ceiling and flat bathroom and closet ceiling. Why the manufactured offset the partition wall seemed really dumb. We had to gain several inches more room as the original tub was 54" wide so moving the wall the width of the mobile home kind of had to be done.