SawStop from Unisaw maybe new questions

[whit richardson]

I've read a few of the running SawStop threads so I have the whole "safe and great quality" thing down. Also noting that core woodworkers are down on Delta these days. So... I have a very nice Unisaw 3hp that I'd like to sell for a penny or three to help pay for the SawStop. My wrinkle is being one of the unfortunate souls that bought into Sawtrain with the expensive Clincher fence, plus the 52" extension table with router lift. The idea was less stuff in a garage workshop, sigh. Lastly after pursing woodworking as a hobby I've discovered I really like restoration and finishing more than building furniture. I will still build things but my shop is going to morph into a hybrid power tool, hand tool, finishing shop. I'll still need a TS but it's not going to be the most used power tool in the shop.

Advice and questions:

What do you do with all your Unisaw stuff? Zero clearance inserts, Dado blades, cross cut sled, Incra Miter etc?
Who could even answer if I wanted to keep the Sawtrain table if it would fit the SawStop?
Can you get a decent prices for a good Unisaw anymore? Mine is about 6-7 yrs old cast iron wings.
After having a 3hp TS would the smaller motor be worthwhile or end up buying new thin blades?

As always lots of you folks have good insights and advice or experience. Thanks .

[Rod Sheridan]

Hello Whit, I would keep all the stuff that would fit such as blades, mitre gauges, tenon jigs etc.

I expect that you'll get reasonable offers for your old saw, many people still want them.

I wouldn't go with thinner blades, any saw larger than 1 HP with good blades will do just fine with standard kerf blades.

Regards, Rod.

[Matt Day]

Never hear of the Saw Train and clincher fence. Can't help there. Resale value is probably not that great though if they aren't made anymore.

Plan to sell all the Unisaw accessories with it. Lots of folks like me would buy the classic Unisaw design.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I would sell the fence setup with it, but keep everything else that can be used on the new saw. As for resale value, my general observation is that used asian import machines sell for about half of the original retail price. It doesn't hurt for you to start high with your asking price and be patient about it though.

This wasn't solicited, but I thought I'd give you my opinion anyway: I have a sawstop and I love it. That said, if you don't plan to use it all that much, I wonder whether it would be worth the money to you. I'm fully bought in on the safety aspect, so that alone could be worth it. But in terms of hours of use, if you really don't plan to use it often, I wonder if you might be better off keeping the Delta and using the excess cash you would otherwise spend on the SS into other tools to suit your work, such as a really nice HVLP turbine setup. I don't know what tools you have/don't have though.

[Marty Tippin]

After having a 3hp TS would the smaller motor be worthwhile or end up buying new thin blades?

I'd spend a few extra bucks on the 3hp SawStop, don't think 1.75hp would cut it for me...

[John Sanford]

Advice and questions:

What do you do with all your Unisaw stuff? Zero clearance inserts,
Dado blades, cross cut sled, Incra Miter etc? If it is specific to the Unisaw, like the zero clearance inserts, then it goes with the saw. If it is universal, like the Incra miter and dado blades, then keep it. Of course, if you're ever looking for an excuse to upgrade, then tossing the old in with the Unisaw to sweeten the deal will give you one.


Who could even answer if I wanted to keep the Sawtrain table if it would fit the SawStop? If you like the SawTrain, then it shouldn't be too hard to fit it to a SawStop. How does it mount on the Unisaw? The only "gotcha" for you to be aware of is that ALL of the fasteners/threads on the SawStop PCS are metric. So you may need to swap out some bolts.


After having a 3hp TS would the smaller motor be worthwhile or end up buying new thin blades? Do not downsize the motor unless you really, really have to do so. It's a $400 difference, 1/2 or more of which will get eaten up with thin kerf blades. You'll notice a big difference in dado performance, and some difference with regular blades. The only advantages to the 1.75hp motor is you save $400 and you can use the saw on 120v power.

[Roy Turbett]

Saw Stop recommends dado sets with wing chippers as opposed to full plate chippers. Apparently the added mass of the full plate chippers can damage the arbor if the brake fires.

[Rick Potter]

I don't think people are down on Unisaws or older Delta stuff. They are down on the new Delta company, and how it is cheapening the brand. Around here, if your 7 YO Uni is in clean shape, it will go for 800-$1000. Close to the $1000 with the special stuff....easy. Old Delta parts are no longer available new, but the aftermarket and used parts will be easy to find for your lifetime, for that saw.

[whit richardson]

I...

This wasn't solicited, but I thought I'd give you my opinion anyway: I have a sawstop and I love it. That said, if you don't plan to use it all that much, I wonder whether it would be worth the money to you. I'm fully bought in on the safety aspect, so that alone could be worth it. But in terms of hours of use, if you really don't plan to use it often, I wonder if you might be better off keeping the Delta and using the excess cash you would otherwise spend on the SS into other tools to suit your work, such as a really nice HVLP turbine setup. I don't know what tools you have/don't have though.

So I've thought this through and here's where I arrived;
if it's good enough for Mr. Christopher Hand Tool King Schwarz it's good enough me me.. :D Seriously though I look at the whole dollars thing and the very remotest possibility that me or worse someone I really care about (family or friend) gets seriously injured or maimed when there is safety technology to prevent that from happening then I should own it. I worked as a Machinist 5th Class (Union no choice) as a young man and saw first hand how poorly designed machines or poor safety design allowed even skilled worker to get hurt badly. I've been electrocuted and only lived because a fast thinking buddy used a broom to knock a Jillion volt cable out of my hands, been punched in the cheek by a hand milling machine and had various fingers sliced, cut and split. So if my tablesaw cost a few bucks more but might save one of my grown sons from losing fingers or an hand someday then it's worth every penny. Funny the risks we'll accept for a hobby yet we'd be up in arms of a company expected workers to use machinery the same way. Like riving knives I hope every tablesaw has this safety technology someday. I'm not for every dummy can use everything because I very much respect skill, tool mastery and craftmanship. But nobody should have to pay so high a price to enjoy a hobby or even a trade.

[whit richardson]

John thanks for your input. Keep the 3hp motor. I'm already wired for 220v. The Sawtrain I'm not settled on throwing it in or keeping yet. I bought the whole enchilada 52" extension table with built-in router lift, Out feed table, Clincher fence that does micro adjustments plus the templates for all the fancy joints. I think a buyer would think "outdated and not made" no go, but I haven't used the system that much. The tables and the fence yes.

[Lee Reep]

I'd spend a few extra bucks on the 3hp SawStop, don't think 1.75hp would cut it for me...

I could not agree more, but that's me. I have a 1.75HP contractor-style saw, and will likely upgrade to a 3HP SawStop at some point. I just like the ease of sawing with more HP behind the blade. I have used a 3HP SawStop and they are fantastic table saws, even without taking the safety-factor into consideration. I did buy a thin-kerf Forrest ripping blade for my table saw, and that has made a huge difference -- enough to keep me reasonably satisfied for awhile. Forrest blades are not cheap, but give you amazing cut quality. I only use my table saw for ripping, and have a radial arm saw for all crosscutting, plus a compound miter saw for miters and bevels. If I went to a SawStop, I'd likely go combo blade and maybe move my radial arm saw to my garage as a "1st pass" breakdown tool for long lumber (my shop is in my basement).

Whit,
Depending on what you really want a table saw for, maybe a smaller table saw would meet your needs? For example, I thought I wanted a 52" setup, but will only go with the 36" SawStop if I upgrade. I bought a Festool track saw in 2013 to use for breaking down sheet goods, and that saw could take over for much of my general sawing needs, if I was really looking to downsize/simplify. That saw has really thrown a lot of my upgrades into question (and hence delayed them), since it really has changed how I approach projects.

I just recently bought a Festool Domino, and did a test project today. This tool has the potential to be as big of an impact on the way I work as the track saw has been.

Good luck sorting things out!

[Peter Aeschliman]

So I've thought this through and here's where I arrived;
if it's good enough for Mr. Christopher Hand Tool King Schwarz it's good enough me me.. :D Seriously though I look at the whole dollars thing and the very remotest possibility that me or worse someone I really care about (family or friend) gets seriously injured or maimed when there is safety technology to prevent that from happening then I should own it. I worked as a Machinist 5th Class (Union no choice) as a young man and saw first hand how poorly designed machines or poor safety design allowed even skilled worker to get hurt badly. I've been electrocuted and only lived because a fast thinking buddy used a broom to knock a Jillion volt cable out of my hands, been punched in the cheek by a hand milling machine and had various fingers sliced, cut and split. So if my tablesaw cost a few bucks more but might save one of my grown sons from losing fingers or an hand someday then it's worth every penny. Funny the risks we'll accept for a hobby yet we'd be up in arms of a company expected workers to use machinery the same way. Like riving knives I hope every tablesaw has this safety technology someday. I'm not for every dummy can use everything because I very much respect skill, tool mastery and craftmanship. But nobody should have to pay so high a price to enjoy a hobby or even a trade.

I can't argue with that! I'm not a professional and I don't get in my shop nearly often enough, so you might put more hours on your saw than I do... and I bought a SS. It's also a really nice saw as everyone says.

...with the exception of the fence faces. You may already have read this, but the faces on the fence are some kind of laminate on chip board. They often have a bit of waviness to them, and I'm surprised after all the criticism that SS hasn't done anything about it.

Also, tool accessories often don't add much to your selling price... so you're probably going to take a bath on it.

You can see where I'm headed... Assuming your unisaw has the same table depth (27", assuming you're looking at the SS PCS model), then I'd keep the fence and router table. How about you buy the SS first, swap the fences, and then sell the unisaw with the SS fence system on it? The "sawstop" logo on top of the fence is a sticker, so with a razor blade and some patience, you could remove it.

Just a thought.

[Prashun Patel]

Bigger picture thought here:

If you are into restoration and finishing, then why waste your shop real estate on a big table saw at all? I'm myself moving to more and more hand tool work - not for religion, but for convenience and portability. I find I use my bandsaw more effectively and frequently now. In combination with a good jointing technique (and of course proper support), a bandsaw makes a safer (IMHO) ripper than even a Sawstop. The table saw has excelled for speed and repeatability, but in your method of working, I don't know that you require the bells and whistles of a cabinet saw.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I would think the accessories for my 15 yr old Uni would bring as much or more than the saw itself. Lotsa blades, dado shims, Incra miter gauge, tenon jig, custom-built jigs, etc........even the inserts are useable on some other styles of was, IIRC.

And - I would expect the Uni itself, w/ 52" Biese and mobile base, to bring a reasonable #.

[Mark Blatter]

I don't think people are down on Unisaws or older Delta stuff. They are down on the new Delta company, and how it is cheapening the brand. Around here, if your 7 YO Uni is in clean shape, it will go for 800-$1000. Close to the $1000 with the special stuff....easy. Old Delta parts are no longer available new, but the aftermarket and used parts will be easy to find for your lifetime, for that saw.

I am curious as to when the great divide happened. When did Delta cross from being 'the name to buy' to 'that cheap garbage that nobody wants'?

[Kevin Womer]

Saw Stop recommends dado sets with wing chippers as opposed to full plate chippers. Apparently the added mass of the full plate chippers can damage the arbor if the brake fires.

I have never heard of arbor damage from a brake activation on a dado stack. I believe Sawstop's recommendation is more concerned with the brake detection and activation. From Sawstop's webpage of Frequently asked questions, "SawStop recommends only using 8” stacked dado sets, with a maximum thickness of 13/16”. “Wobble” dado sets are not recommended, as they may not engage correctly with the dado brake cartridge. Do not use dado sets with solid-plate interior chippers or blades with molding heads, as neither brake cartridge is designed to stop those blade types."

[whit richardson]

Bigger picture thought here:

If you are into restoration and finishing, then why waste your shop real estate on a big table saw at all? I'm myself moving to more and more hand tool work - not for religion, but for convenience and portability. I find I use my bandsaw more effectively and frequently now. In combination with a good jointing technique (and of course proper support), a bandsaw makes a safer (IMHO) ripper than even a Sawstop. The table saw has excelled for speed and repeatability, but in your method of working, I don't know that you require the bells and whistles of a cabinet saw.

Well... like Chris Rock once said "A woman cannot go backwards in lifestyle.. uh-uh! No way can she downsize. When she says It's okay baby you lost your job we can get rid of some stuff here, she means you! She's not getting rid of any of her stuff man." :D

Once you have the use of a cabinet saw it's hard to just go without. I look at the pro's or our well known personalities (Mr. Schwarz, Mr. Klausz, Mr. Underhill, et al) a lot of these gents use hand tools at master craftsman level but still have standard power tools (Roy we know doesn't) in their own person shops. My ultimate goal is to take refinishing, restore and repair into a small business and move the shop out of the house or move the house to where the shop is on the property. What I have in the garage shop will become part of the business or replaced with better equipment. I've spent time visiting with guys who have done this to learn what to expect and be realistic about it. Most all mentioned I should have a decent TS and Bandsaw.

[Prashun Patel]

I didn't understand that you are trying to make a business out of this. For production and speed, I can see having a table saw. I made the mistake of interpreting your original post to mean you were a hobbyist that is looking to free up space in your garage, and have discovered that you don't use a table saw as the central tool in your shop.

At the very least, your TS will serve as a great flat assembly and finishing table when not in use ;)

[whit richardson]

I didn't understand that you are trying to make a business out of this. For production and speed, I can see having a table saw. I made the mistake of interpreting your original post to mean you were a hobbyist that is looking to free up space in your garage, and have discovered that you don't use a table saw as the central tool in your shop.

At the very least, your TS will serve as a great flat assembly and finishing table when not in use ;)

Well I am a hobbyist on the way to starting a business. Again the whole thing is about safety too. My hope and expectation is that someday my sons will inherit my good tools as I have done so myself (a few really). If these machines are that good they'll be around for years so in the meantime when my sons are around now to use it my TS will be safer. Heck I've had guys doing work in the house borrow my shop to do their work since my tools are better than theirs. ;-)
We fuss about money and I don't have dollars to throw around but I'll sleep better if I have a safer machine that does great work too.