Need some help Identifying my Delta Rockwell shaper

[Eric A Martin]

Hi folks, I need some help identifying my new to me Delta Rockwell shaper. It has a 3/4" and 1/2" interchangeable shaft.
I have surfed all over and not had much luck finding my shaper, the only marking on the out side is a small tag on the back of the table top and the number reads 11-9408, everything else on that plate was paint and has since been removed by someone other than I before I purchased it. There are no tags anywhere else, other than DELTA down the middle of the doors (2 of them.
It has a rockwell motor, PN 83-761, with a serial number of C36N2A19 G66, its a 2 hp single phase 115 or 230 volt.
By looking at some of the parts diagrams it kinda looks like a 2 speed delta heavy duty, as there is two pulleys on the spindle shaft, but only one on the motor...(maybe the motor pulley was changed at some point?)
Its missing the height indicator gauge window thingy, the pointer is there, just not the scale. I like to try to find the proper parts and replace this.
Its missing the original bolts that hold the fence in place, someone rigged some al-thread rod to make it work, I'd like to figure out if I can get the proper replacement bolts.
Motor runs great, bearings all really smooth and free, very little rust on the under carriage, height adjuster works great.

One other part I'd like to figure out is if the suggested 43-824 will work with this unit.

Thanks for your help!!!
Eric

PS. I know photos help, my phone died, so I'll post some tomorrow.

[Rich Riddle]

Do you have the light duty shaper, the 43-120 model?

311512

[Bill ThompsonNM]

Do you have the light duty shaper, the 43-120 model? <img src="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=311512"/>
Probanly not, he noted it had two doors.

[Mike Cutler]

If the cabinet is enclosed, it sounds like a 43-340. The doors on newer models didn't have the Delta logo down the middle of the doors. The motor only has one sheave. Speed is changed on the spindle pull sheaves.

A lot of the parts are interchangeable between the shapers, possibly a 43-370, 43-375 may have indicator plate and fence parts you need.

if you have the interchangeable spindles, 1/2 and 3/4 inch and both fit properly, then the router spindle adapter, P/N 43-824 will most certainly fit. That's an expensive little part though. Last time I saw in NIB on eBay it was close to $200.00. Here is a link for some different options to it;

http://artisans.homeunix.com:443/product_info.php?products_id=154&osCsid=j3pj9g0h8894jpaelunb23fm30

[mark kosse]

11-XXXX would indicate it's a much older machine, pre 1941. What throws me is you saw that tag is on the table. It should be on the cabinet.

[Eric A Martin]

ok all here is some photos.311553311554311555311556311557

so the first photo is the only numbers I can find on the out side ANYWHERE
Second photo is overall front view
third showing rockwell motor showing the single pulley
fourth showing the under carriage / frame showing the double pulley on the spindal
and the last photo shows a series of holes on the top and the throat for the unit.
I understand that this may be a pieced together unit at the fence carriage is a different color from the rest of the unit.
the main cabinet is kinda an olive green color.

Thanks for helping.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Eric....If you don't get a good answer here, you might try asking for assistance over at OWWM.org forum. They specialize in Old Wood Working Machinery.

[Eric A Martin]

Eric....If you don't get a good answer here, you might try asking for assistance over at OWWM.org forum. They specialize in Old Wood Working Machinery.
Thanks Ken, I'll go over there and register to see if I can get an answer there.

[Mike Cutler]

Eric

It certainly does look like a Delta, model 43-340 ,Heavy duty, two speed shaper. It's a solid unit and there are many parts available on eBay all the time for it.
The eReplacement website has the parts for a 43-370 that you are looking for. It's probably a direct replacement for that scale window, and fence parts, you need.
Here is a link;

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/delta-43370-type-wood-shaper-parts-c-3275_4046_13751.html

I don't know how cross compatible the fences were through the years, there are a few different models, but most everyone that has used them doesn't hold the OEM fences in high regard.

Photo number 5 in your post shows a few extra holes in your table, that are not in mine, ( I have a 43-375) The 4 holes running parallel to the miter slot are different. The other four holes that are asymmetrical and at right angles to each other look like the OEM fence mounting holes. if so they are probably a 5/16" thread.

If you need to replace the spindle sleeve assembly, the link in my first response has them for sale, and rebuilds yours.

[Eric A Martin]

Eric

It certainly does look like a Delta, model 43-340 ,Heavy duty, two speed shaper. It's a solid unit and there are many parts available on eBay all the time for it.
The eReplacement website has the parts for a 43-370 that you are looking for. It's probably a direct replacement for that scale window, and fence parts, you need.
Here is a link;

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/delta-43370-type-wood-shaper-parts-c-3275_4046_13751.html

I don't know how cross compatible the fences were through the years, there are a few different models, but most everyone that has used them doesn't hold the OEM fences in high regard.

Photo number 5 in your post shows a few extra holes in your table, that are not in mine, ( I have a 43-375) The 4 holes running parallel to the miter slot are different. The other four holes that are asymmetrical and at right angles to each other look like the OEM fence mounting holes. if so they are probably a 5/16" thread.

If you need to replace the spindle sleeve assembly, the link in my first response has them for sale, and rebuilds yours.
Thanks Mike,
One question, you think that I have a 43-340, when I follow your link to the parts breakdown, it shows the two pulley design on the spindal, BUT, it also shows the two pulley design on the motor side?
I think someone said earlier that it was normal to only have one on the motor side... I am no machinist but I know when belts line up and when belts DONT line up... if I were to put the belt on the upper pulley, with only the one pulley on the motor, it doesnt line up, and would be significant wear and extra friction. There just seems like there isnt enough room for THAT much offset flex...
Any advice?

[Mike Cutler]

Eric

Sorry about that mis-information. :o
I thought that there were two sheaves on the motor, but that they were both the same diameter. I was wrong about that. I was looking at the manual and should have walked out and looked at the machine.
On mine the sheaves on the motor pulley are n fact two different diameters, I did go look at the machine this time, not much difference though. When the belt is on the upper set of sheaves, motor and spindle, the speed is 10,000 rpm, when the bely is on the lower set of sheaves, the speed is 7000 rpm.

There is a free downloadable manual in .PDF format for the 43-375 on line, but the links for a free downloadable manual for the 43-340 takes you through a bunch of .pdf download sites and start asking for all kinds of info. I think the 43-375, manual will give you a lot of info. It's not your specific machine, but close.

[Eric A Martin]

Eric

Sorry about that mis-information. :o
I thought that there were two sheaves on the motor, but that they were both the same diameter. I was wrong about that. I was looking at the manual and should have walked out and looked at the machine.
On mine the sheaves on the motor pulley are n fact two different diameters, I did go look at the machine this time, not much difference though. When the belt is on the upper set of sheaves, motor and spindle, the speed is 10,000 rpm, when the bely is on the lower set of sheaves, the speed is 7000 rpm.

There is a free downloadable manual in .PDF format for the 43-375 on line, but the links for a free downloadable manual for the 43-340 takes you through a bunch of .pdf download sites and start asking for all kinds of info. I think the 43-375, manual will give you a lot of info. It's not your specific machine, but close.
Thanks again Mike,
another question, I've seen a few adaptor kits to bring the shaper bit shaft up to a 1", I know that there are a Ton of 3/4" bits out there, does it make sense to go to a 1" ever?
and another with those speeds you mention, thats pretty dang slow compared to a router at 23000, how well do router bits perform?

[Mike Cutler]

The 1" Shaper spindle that will fit either yours, or mine, is one of those "hens tooth" items. The last one I saw for sale was NIB and over $500.00. There was a 43-375 sold on the forum here a few months back that had all three spindles, but that's the last time I saw one for sale. The 1" spindle is integrated with the spindlesleeve assembly so it is a one piece unit, and wicked expensive.

You don't really need it though because there are adapter bushing to use a 1" shaper bit on a 3/4" spindle. there are even 1 1/4" shaper bit bushings to use on a 3/4" spindle, but the machine may not be able to handle the rotational mass of some of those bigger bits. If you look at the spindle/bearing assembly for a 1 1/4" spindle, it's massive compared to the one for a 3/4". Definitely able to handle more side load.

A shaper is not really a router. It's made to take off more material in a single pass than a router. The other thing is that if you have a router bit for door edge profiles, 2" plus, mounted in a table, it won't be running at 23,000 rpm. You'd be running it at pretty much the same rpm as a shaper because of it's size. It's pretty much dependent on how many feet/ minute a bit is traveling at it's outer edge.
A shaper will run smaller router bits too, with the spindle adapter, you would just adjust the feed rate of the material. The smallest diameters of a shaper bit are probably something just under 2", 2 1/2" for one cutting any type of profile, so the speed at the edge of a shaper bit at a 10,000 rpm would be pretty much equivalent to the speed at the edge of the same type router bit at 23,000 rpm.
I've never used a router bit in a shaper personally. I don't see why it wouldn't work just as well as a if mounted in a router though.

[Eric A Martin]

The 1" Shaper spindle that will fit either yours, or mine, is one of those "hens tooth" items. The last one I saw for sale was NIB and over $500.00. There was a 43-375 sold on the forum here a few months back that had all three spindles, but that's the last time I saw one for sale. The 1" spindle is integrated with the spindlesleeve assembly so it is a one piece unit, and wicked expensive.

You don't really need it though because there are adapter bushing to use a 1" shaper bit on a 3/4" spindle. there are even 1 1/4" shaper bit bushings to use on a 3/4" spindle, but the machine may not be able to handle the rotational mass of some of those bigger bits. If you look at the spindle/bearing assembly for a 1 1/4" spindle, it's massive compared to the one for a 3/4". Definitely able to handle more side load.

A shaper is not really a router. It's made to take off more material in a single pass than a router. The other thing is that if you have a router bit for door edge profiles, 2" plus, mounted in a table, it won't be running at 23,000 rpm. You'd be running it at pretty much the same rpm as a shaper because of it's size. It's pretty much dependent on how many feet/ minute a bit is traveling at it's outer edge.
A shaper will run smaller router bits too, with the spindle adapter, you would just adjust the feed rate of the material. The smallest diameters of a shaper bit are probably something just under 2", 2 1/2" for one cutting any type of profile, so the speed at the edge of a shaper bit at a 10,000 rpm would be pretty much equivalent to the speed at the edge of the same type router bit at 23,000 rpm.
I've never used a router bit in a shaper personally. I don't see why it wouldn't work just as well as a if mounted in a router though.

thanks...
Now back to the two speed thing, have you seen the double sheave for the motor? I just went out and measured the the single motor sheave and its circumference is about 23-3/4" ~ 24" and the spindal sheave is (larger of the two) 11-1/8" and (smaller) is 9", and by running those through the calculator, the motor sheave and lower sheave puts me at almost 7500 rpm... COOL, but I'm wondering if there are any double sheaves for the motor out there, and at a 2hp motor, will I can't imagine that, that wouldn't be enough for my home shop.

[Mike Cutler]

Eric

I misunderstood you earlier about the pulley arrangement.
On a 43-375 there are two sheaves on the motor pulley, and two on the spindle pulley. There are definitely double sheave pulleys out there, you would just need to make sure it was compatible with your motor shaft.
If you only have one pulley on your motor and two on the spindle, then when you change speeds you will need to adjust spindle sleeve height to align it. Look for a bolt on the side of the casting that the spindle is in. if it's there you would loosen it, align the belt and then retighten it.

Right now I can't measure the sheaves on the spindle pulley on my machine. I had shoulder surgery last week, so my right arm is a little "limited" at this time, so I can't get in side the enclosure.

[Eric A Martin]

Eric

I misunderstood you earlier about the pulley arrangement.
On a 43-375 there are two sheaves on the motor pulley, and two on the spindle pulley. There are definitely double sheave pulleys out there, you would just need to make sure it was compatible with your motor shaft.
If you only have one pulley on your motor and two on the spindle, then when you change speeds you will need to adjust spindle sleeve height to align it. Look for a bolt on the side of the casting that the spindle is in. if it's there you would loosen it, align the belt and then retighten it.

Right now I can't measure the sheaves on the spindle pulley on my machine. I had shoulder surgery last week, so my right arm is a little "limited" at this time, so I can't get in side the enclosure.
Mike, thanks, I totally understand, I am finally back on my feet after sinus surgery a couple weeks ago...
Just back from the shop, not seeing any bolt other than what looks like a compression bolt around the spindle housing (?) on the ereplacements link you gave me looks to be bolt id #23, that is the only bolt I see. Is that the one your referring to? My motor shaft size is a 3/4", I've looked around and most list a 7/8" shaft size. no biggie, I just need to find the right pulley.
Maybe someone else can chime in about the motor pulley sheave and either circumference or diameter for their two speed motor pulley sheave?
Thanks
Eric

[mark kosse]

I don't have access to mine so I can't compare but mine is a '47 and it has all those holes in it, going by memory. I do have an original manual for it but you can download one from vintage machinery.

[Eric A Martin]

I don't have access to mine so I can't compare but mine is a '47 and it has all those holes in it, going by memory. I do have an original manual for it but you can download one from vintage machinery.
and what model is yours Mark?
Is yours a two speed?

[mark kosse]

Eric, your sure taxing my memory and my not so favorite uncle did enough of that today. I think it is a 43-205. It a ffs(four foot shaper) that's been in restoration mode for a year. A shaper wasn't real high on my list. The tag is packed away until the cabinet is finished but I could look this weekend.

[Eric A Martin]

Eric, your sure taxing my memory and my not so favorite uncle did enough of that today. I think it is a 43-205. It a ffs(four foot shaper) that's been in restoration mode for a year. A shaper wasn't real high on my list. The tag is packed away until the cabinet is finished but I could look this weekend.
Thanks Mark, as you seen in my previous comments, the only tag I have is actually on the table top it self, and nothing on the cabinet.