1980's Centauro 800 CO bandsaw help

[Darin McConnell]

Hi all,
Just wondering if anyone could help me out here.

have a chance to pick up this 1980's Centauro 800 CO 30" bandsaw for $700.
its my first bandsaw but i don't want to play the get a cheap, then a bit better and finally a good tool game.
Im at the point where i have the space and power and most of my ideas require a bandsaw.

anyone have experience with this machine and what i should look at when checking it out?

any help would be greatly appreciated!
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/asset.php?fid=288501&uid=107815&d=1428954150311458311459
Thanks for your time

Darin

[Matt Day]

No games played with that saw! A 30" bandsaw is a BIG saw.

[Chris Padilla]

Run and cut some stuff on it. See how it sounds. Looks like quite the deal on such a large bandsaw...so check it carefully.

[Gregory Stahl]

That saw would be in my shop by now for that price if I knew where it was! I would be comfortable spending another $1000 on it after getting it for the price you are talking.

Just a word of warning--that saw is very large! If you never have seen one in person--the pictures you posted may be a bit misleading!

The common problem I see with these machines are damaged or missing guides. A new set of guides from Carter is $314. These guides are good--I use them on one of my MM24s and get great results.

The motor is probably undersized by current standards--I wouldn't worry about this too much. Also, the resaw height is shorter than what Mini Max offers on a current 32" machine.

From the pics you have posted--the saw looks to be in great shape. Most are beat up with dents and missing parts and an asking price of $2000 or more.

Greg Stahl

[Darin McConnell]

That saw would be in my shop by now for that price if I knew where it was! I would be comfortable spending another $1000 on it after getting it for the price you are talking.

Just a word of warning--that saw is very large! If you never have seen one in person--the pictures you posted may be a bit misleading!

The common problem I see with these machines are damaged or missing guides. A new set of guides from Carter is $314. These guides are good--I use them on one of my MM24s and get great results.

The motor is probably undersized by current standards--I wouldn't worry about this too much. Also, the resaw height is shorter than what Mini Max offers on a current 32" machine.

From the pics you have posted--the saw looks to be in great shape. Most are beat up with dents and missing parts and an asking price of $2000 or more.

Greg Stahl


thanks everyone

any idea on the weight and moving suggestions?

[David Kumm]

I would guess 1000-1200 lbs, maybe less. Older machines had lower resaw height so they were lighter. Also depends if the wheels are spoked or solid. Bandsaws are not top heavy unless the top wheel is full cast iron. They move fairly easily. If you can remove the top wheel, you will have no problem. If not, be careful. Check the machine for vibration and run it and feel if the motor is hot. Older Euro motors are notorious for running hot and wearing out bearings. Dave

[John Sanford]

$700!!! Good lord, I didna think that thing was anywhere near that big. That's the problem with a pic like that, no context. I thought about calling on it to find out what it was and how much they were asking, but didn't. Glad I didn't, I don't know what I'd do with that puppy. Well, aside from sell Papa Griggio, my 24" bandsaw to make room, except that thing might not even fit in my garage. How tall is it? Is it single or 3 phase?

Assuming it's in decent running condition, it certainly looks really good, you've made one heckuva score there. You should be able to remove the table in order to move it, but it will still be very, very stout. Given the incredible price, I'd be willing to take a flier and call somebody who moves equipment for a living. If the cost is low enough, I'd just do that.

[Rich Riddle]

It's one of the best built saws out there. It's very tall so have a very tall ceiling where it stands. Likely three-phase so you will likely need a Phase Converter or Varable Frequency Drive. Blades will cost a fortune compared to smaller saws and you won't be running 1/4" blades on it. See if the seller has blades included in the sale. It takes up a lot of real estate.

[Gregory Stahl]

It should weigh in the neighborhood of 2000 lbs! The table on that model is 46" x 31" inches deep. If you look at it, measure the wheels. Normally a 800 model is a 32" saw--31.5" wheels.

Greg

[Jim Bowers]

http://high-tech.ie/hitechmachinery/Files/Centauro_CO_Bandsaws.pdf This is the spec sheet for your saw. I think this will be very helpful.

[Jim Andrew]

When I bought my MM16, the salesman told me the life of the machine was 2 shifts a day, for 20 years. If that saw has had occasional use, it probably still has 19 1/2 years of life yet.

[mreza Salav]

I'd run and get it at that price. If the frame and wheels are intact the rest is fixable easily...
As it has been said, watch the height.

[Jerry Wright]

Our Google friend says 99" tall and about 1500 lbs. A real big fella!!

[Matt Day]

To move it without a tractor or forklift (ideal), you're probably going to need to remove some weight. That table probably weighs 200lb and each wheel of CI will be 100lb+. I suggest a low trailer to transport.

Good luck! I moved my 1000lb PM 20" saw with a hand truck after I got the weight down to around 650lb.

[Erik Loza]

Don't see anything majorly wrong in the photos. Price is a steal. Let us know how it goes.

Erik

[Darin McConnell]

Thanks so much everyone! im going to check it out tomorrow.
Anyone know of a cheap rigging company in the toronto, canada area that i could call to get it moved?

Many thanks

Darin

[Matt Day]

A real rigging company is going to cost you about the same as the saw I think. I've heard that piano movers are a more economical choice.

[Peter Kelly]

From Practical Machinist. Seems pretty do-able with either a large pickup or a single-axel trailer. As above, a millwright or rigging company will be pretty expensive.

311575

[Bill Adamsen]

Darin

I have the CO700 (700 mm 27inch wheels) - 1980s machine - and it is a fabulous machine. And at that price you should run not walk to get a deposit down. Moving logistics are tough for sure ... it is taller than you think, especially when on a trailer. While the footprint isn't huge, it is surprisingly stable on the base (lower center of gravity than you might think). Blades are pricey but then last longer. Take your digital ammeter to check out the motor voltages and current draw. I went through an exercise pricing a replacement recently, and you can get a quality IEC replacement for less than $500. As others have said, run the machine and check bearings (do they get hot?), are the wheel tires in good shape (no idea where you'd get replacements and hope to not have to find out) and is the guide operating as expected. What else ... do they have the key for the door locks, does the tensioner work? Are L1, L2, T3 connected correctly? (Centauro labelled the wires virtually everywhere). As Peter mentioned, you can move pretty easily with a well rated single axel trailer, but it is pushing it. I moved mine up Route 95 (about ten miles) on a 3500# single axel trailer pulled by a Volvo and I was mindful that I didn't want to panic stop. Also, there are holes in the top to make lifting easy in case you have a chain fall hoist. Good luck!

[Mike Henderson]

For $700 I'd buy that saw in a heartbeat. Even if the motor and the bearings were bad it would still be a steal. And the motor and bearings probably aren't bad.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks so much everyone! im going to check it out tomorrow.
Anyone know of a cheap rigging company in the toronto, canada area that i could call to get it moved?

Many thanks

Darin

Get yourself a lift gate truck and two strong friends.

Mike

[Bill Adamsen]

Darin:

I have the parts list and operator's manual for that saw should you want it. PM me an address to e-mail. Doing a quick compare, it appears identical to today's SP800 Minimax ... weight, height, cutting height, etc. Likely the current SP800P (MM32) manual would work just fine.

The CO800 weights 630 kg (about 1400 lbs)
Maximum cutting height of 500mm (19.7 inches)
Machine height 2495mm (98 inches)
Solid cast iron wheels
5.5hp (4kw) 3-phase motor

A caution ... the inertia required to start the machine is pretty significant. I've attached an ammeter and turned it on, and the results are mind boggling (and mine has the same motor but much less inertia)! Has anyone out there run one of these successfully on a VFD?

[Erik Loza]

FYI: That won't fit on a lift gate. A low trailer would be my choice. Best of luck with it.

Erik

[mreza Salav]

Darin:

I have the parts list and operator's manual for that saw should you want it. PM me an address to e-mail. Doing a quick compare, it appears identical to today's SP800 Minimax ... weight, height, cutting height, etc. Likely the current SP800P (MM32) manual would work just fine.

The CO800 weights 630 kg (about 1400 lbs)
Maximum cutting height of 500mm (19.7 inches)
Machine height 2495mm (98 inches)
Solid cast iron wheels
5.5hp (4kw) 3-phase motor

A caution ... the inertia required to start the machine is pretty significant. I've attached an ammeter and turned it on, and the results are mind boggling (and mine has the same motor but much less inertia)! Has anyone out there run one of these successfully on a VFD?

Not a machine of this size but I have VFD on a much smaller (24") saw. I have documented it here in a thread...

[ian maybury]

The CO is the heavy duty model in the Centauro bandsaw range, so it's probably the right saw for mixed general and resaw work. Erik may be able to advise, but you might if required even get a narrow blade on it using the specialised Carter stabiliser or the DIY block guide arrangement his colleague Sam has previously published.

There's some around here. The spec can be fairly basic - no bottom guide (just provision to fit a block of wood or an aftermarket guide), no miter slot in the table, slightly rough and ready finish but built like a tank. The dust collection can be limited (small bore connection) - but it's easily upgraded.

I nearly bought a well used CO 600 24in a few years ago before getting a shot at a much newer Agazzani for similar money. Is it 3 phase? I have about 10 photos from various angles of it on file, pm an e-mail address if they would help - the 600 while smaller is probably generically very similar. The 'lay on it's spine in a small trailer' method of transportation definitely works if you can organise some help.

[Bill Adamsen]

When I moved mine ... I had a large substantially built and through bolted pallet (see photo above) I brought to the purchase site along with two friends. We bolted the unit to the pallet before moving onto the trailer. The photo you've shown does not seem to have a pallet. Bandsaws of this height (8 foot +) are fundamentally difficult to secure to a trailer or inside a box truck. An 8 foot + saw on a two foot high trailer can be a challenge to fit under many overhead doors. Hard to tell from the photo, but when you actually see the machine in person you'll get a new and real sense of the size.

[Darin McConnell]

Thank you Bill,
Thats a beautiful looking shop you have. be a pleasure to work in such an environment!
just wondering what i would be checking with the ammeter? and i dont have one:)
would this be what i would need?

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-electronics/mississauga-peel-region/best-dt9205m-digital-multimeter-voltmeter-ohmmeter-ammeter-capac/1064552189?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Thanks!

Darin

[Erik Loza]

Back when we shipped our bandsaws standing vertically, we had a fair number of freight claims. Once we started shipping them laying down on their spines, I can't remember the last time I had a customer report major damage to a bandsaw. If it all possible, I woould lie it down to transport it. It sounds like lots of work to get it horizontal but once you do, it's 10X easier to actually move it anywhere.

Just my 2-cents.

Erik

[Earl McLain]

Sitting here, reading the specs Bill posted, I looked up at our 102" living room ceiling. Wow. Just wow.

earl

[Bill Adamsen]

Darin:

What you're looking for is a well running motor. To some extent, you can tell by turning it on, running it for as long a time possible, and putting it under load for an extended period. Does the motor get hot, smell, slow down under load? If it passes all those tests, you are probably fine. As someone else mentioned, even if you had to replace the motor you would still be ahead of the game.

The ammeter is looking to see if the amps drawn is equal to or less than the rated FLA. The amps drawn should also be relatively equal on each loaded leg. The easy way on that machine to test is to take the cover off the magnetic switch, identify the load wires and put the clamp-type ammeter (http://www.zoro.com/i/G4117513/?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&gclid=Cj0KEQjwmLipBRC59O_EqJ_E0asBEiQATYdNh0xSj8In DDo_KI6OLWDxqCyalHD2aaLC368MGI1ffvQaAjtO8P8HAQ) on each load in turn. On my machine the loads were marked with white tape indicating L1, L2, L3. The motor on that machine I believe has an FLA of 16.2, and with that same motor my machine draws about 35% less than the FLA. One leg on mine has a "weak" current reading ... about 30% lower than the others. If the machine was on street 3-phase, one would definitely be concerned and want to test that motor (it's running on an RPC) . The two motor repair shops I've contacted tell me the motor is likely bad. But the machine runs fine. To test it I would need to remove the motor and that's not only a lot of work, but would put the machine out of service. I haven't removed and tested it yet. I have bought machines only to find out later their motors were not in good shape, and it is annoying to say the least. The clamp ammeter simply gives you another way to test before buying. Perhaps reach out each out to your friends to see if one has a clamp type ammeter you could borrow.

I did have another thought about this saw you're considering. While it might seem like a good deal, it is also likely more saw than you probably need. Machines this large pose some challenges moving, repositioning and repairing (everything weighs so much) and even finding a place to put it, and having the power to run it (I know you mentioned you have that licked). Normal spaces with eight foot ceilings don't work because the machine is more than eight feet tall! When you figure the costs of rigging and other unexpected costs, it might be prudent to consider one of the "sub 24 inch" high-performance machines such as the Minimax. I really like their MM16, and I've seen those on the market for a price that probably doesn't exceed the cost of actually getting that Centauro into your shop! There are loads of threads here with user's personal experience using a vast variety of machines. It might be worth exploring alternatives. Just because it appears to be a good deal, doesn't mean it will end up being a good deal for you. I have let machines go when I realized they simply were not the right fit for me.

[Matt Day]

I'm still wrapping my head around the fact that this might be someone's first bandsaw. Most people start with a 14"! :-). You might be in for a bit of a surprise if you've never seen a saw this size.

Regarding amp draw, I think my 3hp fm-50 VFD is programmed to start up in 8s for my 20" saw. The longer the startup the lower the amp draw. And that range goes up to 999 seconds. You should be able to program out the amp draw problem.

[ian maybury]

On moving a biggish saw on its spine. You can rest the base on a pallet truck, skid or set of skates with some strong and clued in guys holding the top end up and pulling as necessary to get it to move. Probably worth considering looping some slings under it (in a way where they can't slip out) rather than try to hand lift - reduces the need to lift while bending and perhaps also the risk of it slipping. That way they only have to support the weight of the upper end of the saw - quite a bit less than half its total weight.

More or less the same applies when tipping it over out of the vertical - the weight really only comes on as it nears horizontal. Place a support under that end so that it's getting too much you can lower it and take a rest. Two of us working with care found my Agazzani 24in NRA 600 (probably similar or a bit less weight to the CO 600 Centauro) relatively manageable done this way. A reasonably significant lift (wouldn't ask my wife to do it), but not that bad.

The 800 is heavier, but presumably a couple of extra helpers should do it. (?)

One to watch out for if its moved into position that way is that (since it pivots around one edge of the base) it will require quite a bit more vertical height (admittedly over a small area) than the actual length of the saw to swing it up into the vertical...

[Matt Day]

I re-found this thread because I’m picking up a Centauro 600 CO tomorrow. Wonder what happened with the OP here?

[Mike Kees]

Matt I just bought one a couple months ago and am in the process of going thru it and fixing and replacing parts. Tomorrow I plan to paint it then pick up my v belts and put the motor back on. Then we will start making sawdust. So far I have replaced the wheel bearings and had my motor bearings replaced, Also made a new handle for the fence and welded up a foot pedal for the brake. Also welded a new bolt assembly for the tracking adjustment and locknut for that adjuster. I also need to make a new dust collection spout. I purchased this machine for $600 and it is a Centauro 600 CO 1980 model. What kind of shape is the one you purchased in ?

[Matt Day]

I've got a few things going on with it that I could tell through a cursory review. The saw sat without use for the past 20 years, and the tires literally fell off in 2 when removing the wheels. Needs Belts, likely bearings in wheels and motor. It appears someone modified the table tilt mech and replaced it with a piece of angle iron, so I need to look into that and see if I can find parts. And the blade guard knob on the front was replaced, so likely the saw took a fall at one point. Need a VFD for the 3.5HP motor. I'm in it $450 so far, and I suppose 6 hours of gas to pick it up but I just call that a road trip to a new place and doesn't count! The saw was located at the Debois County Museum, which is located in the old Kimball Piano Company building. So I got a few tour from the two very nice gentlemen who work there and help me with the saw. And I learned my saw used to help build piano's and furniture. It'll continue with furniture making, but not pianos!

I'll shoot you a PM Mike.

Edit: Nevermind, I see I can't PM you unless you're a Contributor. Email me at xxxx

[Jim Becker]

Matt, even if you have to do a bit of work and put a few shekels into that saw, it's a nice "heavy bones" machine that I'm sure you'll enjoy! Very kewel history to it, too. Please start a separate thread to detail your restoration efforts so we can all follow along!

[Matt Day]

Thanks Jim. That’s what i was thinking when I bought it, that I’d have to put money into it. And the fact that the tires fell off and the bearings need replacing, etc are no bother to me, since I’d probably do all that stuff no matter what used saw I bought.

I’ll start a thread on it at some point.