Are there any 15" planers that don't come off the same assembly line in China?

[Michael Yadfar]

I own a Grizzly 15" planer, and I've been happy with it. If there was one, I probably wouldn't be able to afford it, but just out of curiosity I was looking to see if there are any European or USA made 15" planers. After looking around, I only found three other brands that make a consumer sized planer, General International, Jet, and Powermatic. I saw some other planer brands like MiniMax, but those are large commerical grade planers.

I think it's a well known fact, but I attached pictures anyway of Grizzly, General International, Powermatic, and Jet planers to show they're identical. The only difference I see is the color, access panels, electric panels, and type of head (byrd vs other). It actually makes me confused on why someone would buy a $3,000 Powermatic planer when the Grizzly one is $1,800. The Powermatic has a Shelix head that's made in the USA, but the Grizzly has a very similar helical head that's made in Europe.

Anyway, are there any brands of consumer size planers (not bench top) that aren't identical?

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[glenn bradley]

Although visually similar from a distance you will notice that the actual castings are different. While it may be true that some casting shop makes the parts for all (I am not saying this is so) the actual parts have different profiles. That is; the cutterhead housing on the Griz versus the General Intl is only basically similar. Fun for discussion though ;-)

[David Kumm]

Castings can be graded and individual companies can use different standards to accept or reject. I don't know who does what but there can be differences to machines than look identical. Quality of the machining, bearings and motor come to mind. If you take a look at the Comatic feeders that almost everyone sources compared to the Comatic that are badged Wegoma, you can see real differences. Dave

[Peter Quinn]

I drive a dodge magnum wagon. My bil drives a dodge magnum wagon. His is blue. Mine is grey. I'm more certain than you regarding planers that both magnums came from the same assembly line. They must be identical ? The parts you can see on the outside are similarly shaped. Mine has a 350hp Hemi with AWD, traction control, power heated leather seats, Dolby surround sound.....his is pretty basic, stock 6, cloth interior. We both like our magnums.

My point is the assertion that all 15" planets are the same because they look the same even if it were verified that they are made by the same factory which to my knowledge has never been.....there is lots of stuff inside you can't see or compare without a tear down that is/may be different. Like the motor for instance. Lots of options there, from real good to cheap junk, even among TiawAn motors there is wide variation. Gears, springs, bearings.....lots of levels of quality.

i have had he opportunity to use a green 20" planer along side a gold 20" planer for some time now, and though they look similar in silhouette I'm here to tell you the performance is vastly different. The gold one plows through wood....the green one stalls much over heavy 1/32", slips, snipes. There hasn't been a good side by side comparison among brands of 15" planers in over 20 years, last time there was delta came out way ahead! They found many differences between springs, chip breakers, bearing tolerances, etc. But that's a long time ago. Still, until somebody does at least half scientific comparison again, the assertion that all apples taste the same is verging on silly in my mind.

[Michael Yadfar]

I never realized the major differences, I have just heard in other threads they come off the same assembly line. I was also just assuming they come off the same line because they are designed very identically. However, I never really thought about internal parts. I knew the heads were different, but never thought of bearings and such. I probably sound like an idiot for making this thread, but I feel this can lead to a good discussion.

It makes me wonder as well why these things were never compared side to side. There's only four brands out there as far as I know, so that sort of test really wouldn't be too hard to perform.

[Erik Loza]

...I was looking to see if there are any European or USA made 15" planers... I saw some other planer brands like MiniMax, but those are large commerical grade planers...

Minimax manufactures a 16" dedicated planer that is available with a 1-phase motor, called the S41 Elite-S (referred to as Tecnomax in years past). The Elite line is sold quite a bit to hobbyists as well as small shops. I don't ordinarily bring this particular machine into the US for two reasons...

1.) So many made-in-Asia alternatives that it will never be able to compete with price-wise.
2.) The price of the S41 Elite-S is not that much less than the FS41 Elite, which we do sell a lot of.

...but certainly could bring them in if folks wanted it. Though, pro shops typically want at least a 20" machine and the hobby market has been dominated by the Asian machines, so the demand has just not historically been there. But they do sell well in other parts of the world.

Erik
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[Phil Thien]

Erik, with the # of people here expressing a dislike of anything Asian, I'd consider at least featuring the planers on your website with a banner that reads "Available for special order."

What is the old adage? Something like, "they don't sell them because they don't have them, and they don't have them because they don't sell them."

In your case, it would have to read "they don't sell them because nobody knew they could get them."

[Erik Loza]

You have an excellent point, Phil. The only issue with that would be that it meant the Italians would actually have to do some work and spend some money on the marketing side of things and hey, why break tradition now?

Erik

[Phil Thien]

You have an excellent point, Phil. The only issue with that would be that it meant the Italians would actually have to do some work and spend some money on the marketing side of things and hey, why break tradition now?

Erik

Is Minimax USA owned by the factory in Italy?

[Erik Loza]

Is Minimax USA owned by the factory in Italy?

Yes, Phil.

Erik

[Phil Thien]

Yes, Phil.

Erik

Ahhh!

I didn't know that.

Carry on.

[Rod Sheridan]

Sure there are.

Erik gave you a MiniMax model. here's the Hammer model which happens to be on sale in the USA at present.
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Do you want a planer only or a combination jointer/planer?

I have the combination, great cost and space savings...........Regards, Rod.

[Cary Falk]

Some things that go into price are: middle man markup, warranty length, shipping, name recognition, and volume discounts to name a few. The PM is not 2x the tool as the Grizzly despite the price tag. Jet/PM have increased in price by 33% in the last 6 years while Grizzly around 14%. Something is worth what somebody is willing pay. You can't have a legit discussion unless you know what the actual cost each company purchases them for. I'm not saying there aren't differences, just that it is not nearly as much as people want you to think. If you are going to pay PM prices you might as well go European.

[Scott Hearn]

Well they're not 15", but there is the 12" and 18" Woodmaster models.

[Matt Day]

I'm with Cary on this. I don't see how anyone could reasonably justify buying a PM over a Griz. Just buy some gold spray paint if you like the color that much.

[Phil Thien]

If you are going to pay PM prices you might as well go European.

I agree with that.

And not just because of the country of origin, but the gear is in a completely different league.

[Curt Harms]

Well they're not 15", but there is the 12" and 18" Woodmaster models.

And Woodmaster isn't a one trick pony.

[Jim Andrew]

I had a 18" Woodmaster, sold it and bought a 15" Grizzly. The Griz feeds much faster. Dust collection is better too. The 15" planer is a very good design, think it is good enough for me. I have a couple Euro machines, and they are nice though. Guess if I have trouble with the Grizzly 15", will think about it. Would be nice if Erik would talk price.

[Erik Loza]

...Would be nice if Erik would talk price.

I don't discuss pricing on forums but people can always email me if they want. eloza-at-scmgroup-dot-com

The S41 Elite-S is substantially more expensive than any of the Asian-built models discussed here. But then again, so are the planers of any other Euro mfrs. At least new ones.

Erik

[Michael Yadfar]

I was reading about the Woodmaster 18 inch off of previous blogs and such, and it sounds affordable in price. However, I was seeing a lot of people saying its a good machine, IF you are good mechanically. I know how to set roller heights and stuff on my Grizzly planer, but that alone takes me some time and leaves me banging my head against the wall time to time. So mechanically, not so much me

[Peter Kelly]

Northfield makes an 18" planer (http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/singlesurfacers/no2.htm) in the US as well.

[David Kumm]

I'm with Cary on this. I don't see how anyone could reasonably justify buying a PM over a Griz. Just buy some gold spray paint if you like the color that much.

You would have to know and tear down both machines to know the real answer. If someone has done that, he should chime in. Rest of us are just guessing. Dave

[Marty Tippin]

Northfield makes an 18" planer (http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/singlesurfacers/no2.htm) in the US as well.

... Starting at only $19,720.... :rolleyes:

[Doug Ladendorf]

It actually makes me confused on why someone would buy a $3,000 Powermatic planer when the Grizzly one is $1,800.

For that matter why pay $1800? I picked up a 15" Woodtek planer for $400. It was nearly identical to these, so much so that I used the Grizzly videos as reference for tear down, cleanup and alignment. The design of these Asian-made machines hasn't changed for at least 20 years and there are always some available used.

[Allan Speers]

I think one has to first look at the POSSIBLE differences in various machines / price categories, then prioritize how those differences might affect them. For a pro shop, the most expensive machines are a no-brainer, but for a hobbyist, even a guy rebuilding a house, but just one time, things are different.

1: Accuracy: OK, this affects everyone, so IMO it's priority #1.

2: Need for adjustments / ease of adjustments: Another biggie, even for the hobbyist. Comments above about the Woodmaster are cause for mild concern.

3: Durability: Doesn't matter to me, unless I'm buying an old machine. If I buy a brand new Sears planer, I probably still won't wear out the bearings in my lifetime. - And do I REALLY need a Leeson motor?

4: Speed: Doesn't matter to me at all. In fact, slower is better, as it gives a better finish.

5: Weight: Having seen the incredible finish I get from my (soon to be replaced / upgraded) Makita lunchbox, I think the love affair with "big old American arn" is way overblown.

6: Power: I doubt I need more than 2 HP, but I do worry about the feed system burning up under heavy hobbyist use. (Really big planks.) I'd prefer a machine with a separate feed motor.

7: Chip ejection: This probably matters a little, but I'll be plugged if I know which machines are best at this. Better to just upgrade my DC, anyway, and anyone with basic skills can make a custom shroud.

8: Size of the tables: Doesn't matter to me, as I lay a custom, 1-piece feed shelf into my planer anyway.

9: Motor underneath vs on top: Hmmm, tough one. I would prefer that the tables not move, but tons of people say this ends up not being a big deal after a while. I don't care if it makes blade changes harder, since I will have a spiral head on whatever planer I end up with. I work alone, so roller on top are meaningless.

10: Multi-function: I would LOVE to have a planer-jointer, as using a planer sled gets tedious. However, I have no use for a planer-moulder (no financial point in making your own moulding) nor a planer-sander, as reviews of most "drum sander attachments" are less than positive. (Including Woodmaster, RBI, Hawk, etc.)
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YMMV, and probably will.

[Doug Ladendorf]

5: Weight: Having seen the incredible finish I get from my (soon to be replaced / upgraded) Makita lunchbox, I think the love affair with "big old American arn" is way overblown.

A good finish relies on many things before weight. Proper alignment, sharp blades or even better a spiral cutter etc. I had the Makita planer and it's about the best lunchbox planer available IMHO. When I moved to the 15" there was a reduction of 10 decibels. It was a major improvement. "Big old American Arn" can be even quieter with less vibration. However, the real value is the ability to hog off material without bogging down or breaking a sweat. Sounds like that isn't a concern of yours but for some it is. Life of service is another area where "big old American Arn" has the advantage since they were built to be serviced and maintained for decades. How many decades will the Makita/DeWalt/Ryobi/Ridgid lunchbox planer last? I'm not saying there is anything wrong with these or the subject 15" planers, but I think a statement like that benefits from a bit of additional perspective.