Software Frustration

[Robert Peel]

Machine: CNC Shark Pro HD
Software: vCarve Pro 8.0/Cut3D
Substrate: Wood

Background: I am having no problems with machine or software vectorizing and carving out flat images. I can upload a .3ds or .dxf file that is already done in 3D and the CNC carves it out brilliantly.

Desire: I would like to take things to the next level and carve many more 3D-ish products with rounded edges, and be able to do the 3D graphics myself, as I do all the flat graphics, vectorization through g-code, myself now.

Problem: The one .3ds file that I got took a few weeks to get done from a graphic design guy...that is just too long. Therefore, I would like to just do it myself.

Problem: Software is needed to take my images from .ai/.jpg/.png to a 3D format.

Problem: The software to do this one task seems to cost more than the entire machine.

Question: Can anybody point me in the right direction software-wise, so I can take a normal graphic to 3d format without costing me an arm and a leg?

Attached is an example of a graphic that I typically use. Again, I have not problem taking this through the process and carving out a high quality flat project.

Thanks in advance.

~Rob

310881

[Paul Phillips]

Robert, as far as I know there is no quick, easy, cheap way to build 3d models, which is why there are 3d artists that specialize in creating them, they typically use a variety of programs to build an image and none of them are cheap. There are some reasonably priced programs that can create 3d files to a certain level, I've heard great things about the Vectric software, I use Enroute pro which is a $5k program to build my files but it still has some limitations. There are a few good websites that sell pre-made models http://www.vectorart3d.com/
and there are more 3d artists out there, you just have to search for them. It is typically a very time consuming process which increases with the complexity, size and detail of the model that you want and most artists are going to have a turn-around time to create one. If it was real easy to create custom models everyone would be doing it.

[Dan Hintz]

Robert, as far as I know there is no quick, easy, cheap way to build 3d models, which is why there are 3d artists that specialize in creating them, they typically use a variety of programs to build an image and none of them are cheap. There are some reasonably priced programs that can create 3d files to a certain level, I've heard great things about the Vectric software, I use Enroute pro which is a $5k program to build my files but it still has some limitations. There are a few good websites that sell pre-made models http://www.vectorart3d.com/
and there are more 3d artists out there, you just have to search for them. It is typically a very time consuming process which increases with the complexity, size and detail of the model that you want and most artists are going to have a turn-around time to create one. If it was real easy to create custom models everyone would be doing it.

Everything said here. Blender is one free tool that can be used to help create 3D models, but it's not an instant solution any more than buying a lathe will have you creating a 1,000-piece segmented bowl within 24 hours. You need to learn how to use the tools properly and efficiently, and that takes time.

[Kevin L. Waldron]

You might try this program....... it works great for the price and produces NURBS curves which work great for modification and CNC work.

http://moi3d.com/

Blessings,

Kevin

[Chris Corwin]

Skip the rest... Go for the best... Upgrade to Aspire. It is by far the easiest 2.5d software. I have used many programs and aspire is the best. It is worth every dollar spent.

[Roy Harding]

Seeing as you're already using VCarve Pro - go to Aspire. The interface is exactly the same - basically, VCarve Pro is a sub-set of Aspire.

It will NOT, however, be inexpensive. If you have VCarve 8.0 it'll cost you around $1400.00 (USD) to upgrade to Aspire. Whether that constitutes an "arm and a leg" is entirely up to how you will use it.

FWIW - I've been incorporating carvings in my work for years now, I use VCarve 8.0 (and used its previous iterations), and the files available from VectorArt 3D and various other sites. I've come CLOSE to pulling the pin on an upgrade to Aspire, but in the end decided that it wasn't worth it for me - but that's me, your needs will be different.

[Jim Underwood]

Comparative to other top of the line software, at $2K, Aspire does not cost an arm and a leg.
Last I checked Rhino was around $5K (that was several years ago), ArtCAM Pro was $10K...

Comparative to the Shark CNC router, it might cost an arm and leg...

[Mike Heidrick]

Many folks that build 3d printers want open source software options. All they deal with is 3d parts. Some of them invented the shapeoko cnc machine. Its still based on grbl/arduino controllers and again those boys like open source software. You are going to prob not be happy with options and ease but start researching their software selections but the software might be right priced for you or free.

for example search: shapeoko basic workflow 3d

While being annoyed with all these and their learning curves and the time you spend learning them save for Aspire.

Start searching everything you can

[Art Mann]

The new version 8 Vcarve Pro will import a single 3-D model in several different formats and create a toolpath for it that is ready to cut. MOI that someone already mentioned is a low cost 3-D modeling program that will generate .STL files that will import directly. Sketchup is a free program that I have used to generate 3-D models that import directly but Sketchup is more of an engineering tool than an illustration tool. Dan mentioned Blender as being a very powerful program and my experience with it indicates that it is too. I just didn't have the time to find and learn how to use the few tools I needed. That piece of software is overwhelming.

[William Adams]

The problem here is you’re starting w/ a pixel image, not a 3D file.

One tool which will make 3D tool paths from a pixel image is F-Engrave: http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/F-Engrave

[Kevin L. Waldron]

I'm the one who mentioned MOI.... we have legal copies of Aspire 8, Artcam Pro 9.1, Enroute 5 Pro, Rhinocam Pro 2014 with Rhinoart, MadCam 5 XTRA, and Sprutcam 7 (we also have the new Rhino3Dprint for 3D printers)........ Blender is a free program and vary powerful but it does take some time getting use to the way you have to think..... a lot of the animation guru's like this program and there are several others along this line including several Autocad family programs. It's possible that you might even want to look at programs like Artec 3D Studio..... for doing what your doing...... cheap 3D scanner and you can scan your parts/objects and cut shortly after running the software.

http://www.artec3d.com/software/studio-kinect/

If Aspire is not out of your budget probably the best route for overall CAD and CAM although we personally hate the CAD 180 drawing that Aspire and several others offer but it does serve a function that works for many.

As far as STL we personally don't like this format because of the difficulty of working with the files....... they are not as easily modified as a Solidworks Files or a Nurbs style files if changes for an item/part are needed quickly...... although 3D printers for the most part only work with STL type files. (STL= mesh format for the most part).

Hope this helps or confused the water even more.

Blessings,

Kevin

[John Coloccia]

Comparative to other top of the line software, at $2K, Aspire does not cost an arm and a leg.
Last I checked Rhino was around $5K (that was several years ago), ArtCAM Pro was $10K...

Comparative to the Shark CNC router, it might cost an arm and leg...

I use Rhino. I don't do CNC anymore, but I still use it. It's about $1500, and is awesome, though I haven't done any of this sort of work and I don't know what it's capabilities are in regards to this. It is NOT a CAM program, though, so you still need to convert your shapes to g-code. I was using Madcam...I hated it.

[Kevin L. Waldron]

John,

If you were going to do CNC again you need to give MadCam a chance....... it's really a great program..... you do have to think a little different...... it's also possible that the base version may not have all the bells and whistles that you may need for guitar work not sure..... but it is worth learning.

Rhinoceros is $799 right now at NOVEDGE......

Blessings,

Kevin

[John Coloccia]

My problem with Madcam is that I kept running into crazy bugs with seemingly EVERY project I had. Just simple things, like making holes with pocketing, and I would get crazy tool paths that wouldn't ramp, rapids through the model, and things like that. I was constantly fiddling with it just to do very very simple things. He'd eventually fix the bugs, but it was like a boat anchor around my business.

[Dan Hintz]

The problem here is you’re starting w/ a pixel image, not a 3D file.

One tool which will make 3D tool paths from a pixel image is F-Engrave: http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/F-Engrave

I only took a quick glance, but I'm not seeing that functionality...

[William Adams]

f-engrave imports BMP files. Does an auto-trace, but that should establish a baseline of free functionality for the OP.

http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/CAM#2.5D lists some more, notably

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/gui/image-to-gcode/index.html
http://www.junktech.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=28

[Dan Hintz]

f-engrave imports BMP files. Does an auto-trace, but that should establish a baseline of free functionality for the OP.

2D tracing can be done by a slew of programs... but I still fail to see how f-engrave gets him any closer to a 3D file (or even a 3D toolpath).

EDIT: I see a few mention of depth maps and such... I'll have to review the stuff in more detail, when time permits.

[William Adams]

My apologies if anyone took my mention of 3D tool paths to mean a full 3D rendering --- I guess I should've said 2.5D.

The software simply maps colour values in the pixel image to differing levels of depth / height in the output file.

[William Adams]

Here's a post on making 3D files from 2D image files: https://kt421.wordpress.com/2015/04/10/3d-printed-xcom-stuff-or-how-to-make-3d-models-from-2d-images/

[Dan Hintz]

Here's a post on making 3D files from 2D image files: https://kt421.wordpress.com/2015/04/10/3d-printed-xcom-stuff-or-how-to-make-3d-models-from-2d-images/

Do note, however, that all of the models created by that woman were essentially two-level... no need for complicated 3D programs. Even Paint would be quite adequate to create those. Start with a white background, then draw your design in black. Once imported, set white to 1/8" and black to 1/16". Print. The article did NOT say, however, how the UFO model from her husband was created.

[Bill Amaya]

Rhino, I have spent tons of money on software and Rhino rocks. I have been using it for 5 plus years and it just works flawlessly. The cost of entry is learning the software, but for my money rhino has it going. Hundreds of drawing tools, plug ins, import and export capability, tens of thousands of users word wide and Bob and Sandy McNeel are just good people. (rhino's developer).