What tool to loosen Sargent/Shaw-patent frog bolts?

[Phil Stone]

I'm restoring (to working-condition) a Sargent "Zenith" 22C jointer, and am stymied at trying to remove the frog. It's a "Shaw patent" frog, shown here:

310780

You can see one of the interior frog-locking screws hiding down there, well protected by the frog's blade bed. How the heck can I bring any torque to those slotted-head screws? Patrick Leach mentions needing a "right-angle screwdriver" to get at them, but I have one of those, and I guess it's the wrong shape, because I can't bring it to bear on the screw heads, especially not with enough torque to budge them from their lightly-rusted lethargy.

I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions for a way to accomplish this.


Phil

[Steve Baumgartner]

The link in your post seems to be broken?

[Phil Stone]

The link in your post seems to be broken?

Thanks for pointing that out. I hope it's better now.

[Mel Miller]

I hope you're soaking those in some Kroil or something similar? Sounds like you need a better angle screwdriver.

[Phil Stone]

Well, if I had had a little more patience, I wouldn't have needed to ask this. I waited a while for the penetrating oil to do it's work, then I tried moving the blade adjustment screw all the way up against the frog. This gave me just enough room to work the right-angle screw driver in there. The frog is free! Now to clean this old monster up...

As an aside, I can verify Patrick Leach's comments on the merits of the Shaw frog vs. the Bedrock design: the Shaw allows adjustment of the mouth without changing the blade set, but the access to the set screws is *much* worse than on the Bedrock, in my opinion, almost problematically so.

[Mike Holbrook]

I had some similar issues with a few frog screws on old planes. Sometimes people put locktite on those screws once they get them adjusted so they do not slip. I would try heat. It has worked for me several times. I just heat the area around the screw/threads with a hair dryer. There are some screw drivers that have a square section at the top of the shaft. You can use a wrench on the square section to exert more pressure.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I don't want to harp on about the issue but this is the exact reason why a new tool design should include hex cap screws/bolts and not slotted. Hex would allow one to get in there at an angle with a ball tip driver. I guess you can't force innovative thinking. I'm referring to the Lie-Nielson new sharpening system.

[Jim Koepke]

I don't want to harp on about the issue but this is the exact reason why a new tool design should include hex cap screws/bolts and not slotted. Hex would allow one to get in there at an angle with a ball tip driver. I guess you can't force innovative thinking. I'm referring to the Lie-Nielson new sharpening system.

Kind of late for the old Sargent plane, unless you have a time machine.

It all sounds good until you don't have the proper ball tip Allen wrench to do the job. Besides, the ball tips are usually on the long shaft. Adding a bit of leverage on those has caused one or two of mine to snap off with the fastener still happily in place.

Many years ago I learned it is better to go with the flow, accepting things the way they are than getting all fired up over how things should be.


My recollection is the U.S. Congress first voted to adopt the metric system in 1792. It was a slap at the British/Imperial system. Look how long it has taken since then to convert.

My search to back this up has found very little. Looks like my information may come from a source who confused a decimal system of coinage for acceptance of the metric system.

Though my search did find this:


In 1866, Congress authorized the use of
the metric system in this country and supplied
each state with a set of standard metric weights
and measures.

BTW, many things in the U.S. have used the metric system. Our coinage is based on metric weights and sizes. A nickel is 5 grams.

That may have been to prevent confusion. Many a school kid has been confused when asked to explain why an ounce of gold is heavier than an ounce of feathers yet a pound of feathers is heavier than a pound of gold.

Then the real confusion ensues when they are told they will both fall to earth at the same speed in a vacuum.

jtk