Big saw....small parts....high degree of accuracy....minimal cost.

[Peter Quinn]

I'm doing a job with hundreds of small parts that wrap plywood frames, they meet at odd angles, some past 50 degrees, some outside corners that have to meet perfectly. The SCMS is pretty much shot, I think it may have interacted with a fork lift in a negative manner! TS is tied up for days.....sadly the only thing left for me to use is.....a 10' altendorf slider! And while that sounds great, cutting double miters on parts as small as 2 1/2" long X 3/8" x 3/4" can be a little hairy as delivered.

they make a miter guage jig for these things, and I'm all for $800 worth of anodized aluminum German hyper precision. But I don't have one. So in under one hour, with scraps from the wall and a little careful fitting, I'm cutting very small parts on a very big slider that fit like a glove. I stole the M10 knob with threaded post in the pics from the spindle lock on a shaper.....going to have to give that back....ordered one for this jig. Best part is other guys can use the slider as needed around my job without compromising the jigs accuracy. I used an existing reader hole in the format table meant for the oem miter guage as the hold down/ pivot point for this jig. It's not pretty, but that wasn't a requirement. Thought I'd share this cost effective alternative to the very expensive factory options I've seen. It really adds range to the slider.

[Joe Calhoon]

You need Fritz, Franz & Hanz. We have a dedicated Omga setup for cutting glass beads, but when they get small I prefer the slider with the German jigs. Next I am going to make one with adjustable angle. Nice thing is your hands are nowhere near the blade and our fence stops work with this.
310635
310636
310637

310638

[jack forsberg]

this is what i use and there is no set up for the table saw so if i need to use the saw for something i can just remove it. Its just got all the cuts i need in one sled.

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/doors9003_zpsb44a471c.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/doors9003_zpsb44a471c.jpg.html)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7qkVTET4-k

[Peter Quinn]

You need Fritz, Franz & Hanz. We have a dedicated Omga setup for cutting glass beads, but when they get small I prefer the slider with the German jigs. Next I am going to make one with adjustable angle. Nice thing is your hands are nowhere near the blade and our fence stops work with this.

I love those Joe! Maybe I'll name mine....Perhaps Stephan? Or Eb? Mostly because my first three choices are already taken! On the jig above my hands are roughly 1" from the blade during the cut as the parts are only 2 1/2" long, can't even get a destaco in there, but its not at all alarming, I do have to keep paying attention though. I have 5 different angles to chase around the interior of a frame so I went with the adjustable fence. I don't even know what the angles are...plan doesn't tell me, something odd like 33.7 and 59.3, couple of 45's. Glad I'm not the only one making plain wooden jigs for a big german saw!

[Peter Quinn]

this is what i use and there is no set up for the table saw so if i need to use the saw for something i can just remove it. Its just got all the cuts i need in one sled.

I love that jig Jack, its like one of those complicated highway over passes that looks impossible to understand from a distance but easy to navigate once you are on it. I made a picture frame jig for the cabinet saw.....and as soon as I turned around another guy set up on it, I got bumped! Then another guy needed to do dados, and our panel saw can't do that, or we went set up for it, so I won the panel saw by default. I teased them that I was going to work from home...cause in my shop there is no line at the cabinet saw! I've drawn up a cabinet with glass doors where I'm planning to use your two piece sticking with jack miters to make some delicate glass doors, there may be a jig like your in my future!

[Joe Calhoon]

Peter 1" is too close for me anymore. What I like about these jigs is no clamp needed and the hands are never closer than 5 - 6" from the blade. I also lust after the German miter setup. They are good when cutting 2 off angles to meet at 90. We usually set the big fence and clamp a square cut piece of ply to the fence for this. A little more awkward but it works. Our fence sets to 100th of a degree in seconds and length compensates so I have always talked myself out of the 2 point miter setup.
We still have a lot of table saw mitering jigs hanging on the wall. Problem with those, standing behind the saw you are a target for the rockets launching. Slider is nice because you are off to the side.

310639310640

[Kevin Jenness]

310651Thanks for that, Joe. I will be making a Hansel to complement my home-made miter gauge.

[peter gagliardi]

Definitely some clever ideas here!
I still haven't made my Fritz and Franz and Hanz parts yet Joe from when I saw at your place.
I like all these ideas for various reasons.

[Joe Calhoon]

Kevin,
Thanks, that gives me a idea for my adjustable pusher

Peter, since making these jigs a couple years ago and adding the Airtight clamps, the Unisaw we keep on wheels has only been turned on twice. They turn the slider into a safe joinery saw. We cut very little in the way of sheet goods.

[Kevin Jenness]

For larger parts like countertop sections with odd angles we will use double-stick tape to adhere a 1/4" panel to the slider carriage and line up the marks on the workpiece to the zero-clearance cutline on the panel. Like a tracksaw in reverse, but gives better results on thick material.

For those who don't want to spend on Airtite clamps, another homemade rig.310657

[Joe Calhoon]

The Fritz & Franz kit they sell in Germany uses a soft T moulding to grip the work. I would like to get my hands on some but we used a dry gasket material from Resource Conservation that seems to grip well.


310667

[jack forsberg]

as clever as these add on jigs are to the format sliders the fact that there is no zero clearance fence or table for chip control on both sides of the cut/blade and that fitting miters require a second cut to fit many times so stops are just a reference! or that tape and foam are used to make them work is a little telling as to what the saws were made for. Having to cut the angle on one side of the blade is a real pain not to mention some time just backwards to what is a more natural and ergonomic way to work IMO. It is fun to see you try though:p. I guess you can make anything work if you have enough names for the jigs.:rolleyes: I like my slider but not for small short parts that need to fit chip free with angles set up changing for each cut in something like Peter Q has to do. I would ripe my hair out on a slider.

[Joe Calhoon]

as clever as these add on jigs are to the format sliders the fact that there is no zero clearance fence or table for chip control on both sides of the cut/blade and that fitting miters require a second cut to fit many times so stops are just a reference! or that tape and foam are used to make them work is a little telling as to what the saws were made for. Having to cut the angle on one side of the blade is a real pain not to mention some time just backwards to what is a more natural and ergonomic way to work IMO. It is fun to see you try though:p. I guess you can make anything work if you have enough names for the jigs.:rolleyes: I like my slider but not for small short parts that need to fit chip free with angles set up changing for each cut in something like Peter Q has to do. I would ripe my hair out on a slider.

Hi Jack,
Whats telling is I have all the cutting jigs you describe (see picture) and have not used them for a couple years. The gasket material is not intended for backup, only for work holding. If you know how to use these there is always backup.
Second cut is no problem for chipout. I had to adjust the stops a couple times on the doors we just did but no problem.
Come by my shop sometime and I will show you how to cut glass beads over 12" long with no measuring and no second cuts:)310674

[Gregory Stahl]

as clever as these add on jigs are to the format sliders the fact that there is no zero clearance fence or table for chip control on both sides of the cut/blade and that fitting miters require a second cut to fit many times so stops are just a reference! or that tape and foam are used to make them work is a little telling as to what the saws were made for. Having to cut the angle on one side of the blade is a real pain not to mention some time just backwards to what is a more natural and ergonomic way to work IMO. It is fun to see you try though:p. I guess you can make anything work if you have enough names for the jigs.:rolleyes: I like my slider but not for small short parts that need to fit chip free with angles set up changing for each cut in something like Peter Q has to do. I would ripe my hair out on a slider.

Jack--I would rip my hair out if all I had was your old Wadkin slider too! No problems with any of the above on my Altendorf or Felder machines--just have to know how to use them properly.

I see you like sleds--you can drop a sled on any modern slider just as easy as any other saw.

Greg Stahl

[Gregory Stahl]

Hi Jack,
Whats telling is I have all the cutting jigs you describe (see picture) and have not used them for a couple years. The gasket material is not intended for backup, only for work holding. If you know how to use these there is always backup.
Second cut is no problem for chipout. I had to adjust the stops a couple times on the doors we just did but no problem.
Come by my shop sometime and I will show you how to cut glass beads over 12" long with no measuring and no second cuts:)

Joe--I see that T12 in the background! Does it meet all your needs or do you wish you would have sprung for a T27?

[jack forsberg]

Sorry not seeing it guys. the foam can't be that accurate can it?? do you have a jig that both sides of the blade as that might do it for me? Joe i would not call glass bed for IG needing a second cut . long pieces are easy to fit its the short pieces were taking about here and not your run of the mill 45 or 90 I think Peter said 5 different angles and very short (2.5").. I like my wadkin and have made some jigs for it too but i am glade its not the only saw in the shop. The fact that your tiring to make these short cuts on the slider is fun to watch but there are better machines and you know it. Even Joe uses the chop saw.

could be i missed the point of the thread and that it was all about big sliders and jigs and not how to cut accurate short chip free work with many angles. I like my tools as much as the next guy so call me thick on this one if it was about tools.

[Joe Calhoon]

Joe--I see that T12 in the background! Does it meet all your needs or do you wish you would have sprung for a T27?

Gregory,
The 27 is for sure more of a machine. I have a 13 year old T26 with tilt that is our main shaper. The idea of having the T12 in our shop is to demo building doors and windows with one machine that has a large sliding table. The 27 is going to be a better and heavier machine for all around millwork and cabinetry. Especially with the tilt and power feed arm.

Joe

[Joe Calhoon]

Sorry not seeing it guys. the foam can't be that accurate can it?? do you have a jig that both sides of the blade as that might do it for me? Joe i would not call glass bed for IG needing a second cut . long pieces are easy to fit its the short pieces were taking about here and not your run of the mill 45 or 90 I think Peter said 5 different angles and very short (2.5").. I like my wadkin and have made some jigs for it too but i am glade its not the only saw in the shop. The fact that your tiring to make these short cuts on the slider is fun to watch but there are better machines and you know it. Even Joe uses the chop saw.

could be i missed the point of the thread and that it was all about big sliders and jigs and not how to cut accurate short chip free work with many angles. I like my tools as much as the next guy so call me thick on this one if it was about tools.

Hey Jack, your happy with your machines and jigs and I am happy with mine.
What more could we ask for?:)

[Peter Quinn]

Sorry not seeing it guys. the foam can't be that accurate can it?? do you have a jig that both sides of the blade as that might do it for me? Joe i would not call glass bed for IG needing a second cut . long pieces are easy to fit its the short pieces were taking about here and not your run of the mill 45 or 90 I think Peter said 5 different angles and very short (2.5").. I like my wadkin and have made some jigs for it too but i am glade its not the only saw in the shop. The fact that your tiring to make these short cuts on the slider is fun to watch but there are better machines and you know it. Even Joe uses the chop saw.

could be i missed the point of the thread and that it was all about big sliders and jigs and not how to cut accurate short chip free work with many angles. I like my tools as much as the next guy so call me thick on this one if it was about tools.

My point of posting was to highlight that it's possible to make the machines you have do the work you need in a safe and efficient manor in most cases, particularly without spending your retirement savings on factory made jigs, even on what is by most accounts a pretty fancy wood working machine. It feels almost silly cutting tiny parts on a 10hp machine, I'm thrilled with the results though. I had planned to add a backer to my fence, on the inboard side, the blade cut a flush line through the jig so below is covered. I didn't add the backer because the tripple chip blade is cutting zero chip out without one, and I'm not fixing what's not broke. I ran 12' blanks for this job, so all my parts are cut just over sized for trim, I don't need backer on the other side as its all waste, though it might keep the occasional projectile under control. I'm firing into a corner though, so not much concern really. There isn't going to be any fitting, I'm wrapping plywood frames router on a CNC, they are all closer than I can measure, the one joint that needs fitting is a simple inside 45 that ends the run.

what really amazed and impressed me was how many guys posted very different takes on jigs that do the same basic job, it's great to see how different minds work. When I analized my job and tools it didn't occur to me to make anything other than what I did, thanks to all posters here for widening my vision. I'm still pretty happy with my jig for this job, which will be finished early Monday, but I'm storing all these ideas for the next time. I know a guy that had a little tiny slider meant for cutting type face, he claims it's the best machine for small panel molding ever....offered to sell it to me once. Maybe it would fit under the Altendorf?

[jack forsberg]

My point of posting was to highlight that it's possible to make the machines you have do the work you need in a safe and efficient manor in most cases, particularly without spending your retirement savings on factory made jigs, even on what is by most accounts a pretty fancy wood working machine. It feels almost silly cutting tiny parts on a 10hp machine, I'm thrilled with the results though. I had planned to add a backer to my fence, on the inboard side, the blade cut a flush line through the jig so below is covered. I didn't add the backer because the tripple chip blade is cutting zero chip out without one, and I'm not fixing what's not broke. I ran 12' blanks for this job, so all my parts are cut just over sized for trim, I don't need backer on the other side as its all waste, though it might keep the occasional projectile under control. I'm firing into a corner though, so not much concern really. There isn't going to be any fitting, I'm wrapping plywood frames router on a CNC, they are all closer than I can measure, the one joint that needs fitting is a simple inside 45 that ends the run.

what really amazed and impressed me was how many guys posted very different takes on jigs that do the same basic job, it's great to see how different minds work. When I analized my job and tools it didn't occur to me to make anything other than what I did, thanks to all posters here for widening my vision. I'm still pretty happy with my jig for this job, which will be finished early Monday, but I'm storing all these ideas for the next time. I know a guy that had a little tiny slider meant for cutting type face, he claims it's the best machine for small panel molding ever....offered to sell it to me once. Maybe it would fit under the Altendorf?


Thanks Peter i had kind of guessed you have to cut the pieces to ruff length first. And i hear what your saying about extending the usefulness of a machine.The hammond glider printers saw is a nice little saw and i would not call it a toy(not that you did) but it lacks a tilting arbor so really only good for a limited range of work. If i were to get a little slider it would be the 10" Bursgreen (before Wadkin took over Buresgreen and named the machines Wadkin Bursgreen) the Bursgreen MY 10" slider form the late 40s was one of the first in the UK to adopt a 10" tilting arbor saw to a slider format. Very cute little Kit. When Wadkin took over that saw was caned for the BGP so there rare.

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/BursgreenDD1954.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/BursgreenDD1954.jpg.html)

what i find interesting about this saw is that it came with a special order out rigger in the late 40s and most certainly one of the first saw makers in the UK to move in the direction of the full sized sliders. I know that the clam that Altendorf invented the slider is a well know one i have never seen the 1909 saw by them. Clearly slider were around 70 years earlier. would be nice to see one

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/BursgreenMYwith6ftslidingtablecirca.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/BursgreenMYwith6ftslidingtablecirca.jpg.html)

Ok so its about jig to expanded the sliders usefulness i get it now. this is one like yours in that its a pivoting fence but it may not fall in the category of minimal cost but could be if you made it from lesser materials. In my case this extend the cross cut length and let me have 3 fence setting on the slider if the double miter was in front.

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/wadkinbackmiter001_zps95231d91.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/wadkinbackmiter001_zps95231d91.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/wadkinbackmiter002_zpsd343c1f6.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/wadkinbackmiter002_zpsd343c1f6.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/wadkinbackmiter003_zps9baf6e71.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/wadkinbackmiter003_zps9baf6e71.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/wadkinbackmiter004_zps214c7aa8.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/wadkinbackmiter004_zps214c7aa8.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/wadkinbackmiter006_zps788bd50f.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/wadkinbackmiter006_zps788bd50f.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/wadkinbackmiter011_zps00bf76e4.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/wadkinbackmiter011_zps00bf76e4.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/wadkinbackmiter014_zpsdf29fdfa.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/wadkinbackmiter014_zpsdf29fdfa.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/wadkinbackmiter015_zps726c41f5.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/wadkinbackmiter015_zps726c41f5.jpg.html)

[Justin Ludwig]

Jack, that is almost too pretty to use!

[Peter Quinn]

Jack, that is beautiful on every level! I love the angle detents, the infill fence, wow. Thank you for those pics. Mine is aesthetically quite the opposite of that, though functionally quite similar if of vastly lesser build quality. Yours is art, functional art!

it was the Hammond I was offered, no room in my home shop, the Burgreen saw sounds like quite a thing. Once you cut panel moldings and glass beads on a stationary machine trying to use a modern SCMS can be frustrating, their lack of accuracy and repeatability is really made clear. When I need angles just off of 45 for a slightly out of square assembly, and it does happen, a few slips of paper on the fence as a shim lets me eliminate any gaps. Some day I'd like to try a guillotine type manual miter trimmer for fitting miters, I hear good things. Nice and quiet too!

[jack forsberg]

Jack, that is beautiful on every level! I love the angle detents, the infill fence, wow. Thank you for those pics. Mine is aesthetically quite the opposite of that, though functionally quite similar if of vastly lesser build quality. Yours is art, functional art!

it was the Hammond I was offered, no room in my home shop, the Burgreen saw sounds like quite a thing. Once you cut panel moldings and glass beads on a stationary machine trying to use a modern SCMS can be frustrating, their lack of accuracy and repeatability is really made clear. When I need angles just off of 45 for a slightly out of square assembly, and it does happen, a few slips of paper on the fence as a shim lets me eliminate any gaps. Some day I'd like to try a guillotine type manual miter trimmer for fitting miters, I hear good things. Nice and quiet too!

the printer saws are a nice find and i do believe the Hammond is the best. Crazy Pete over at Machine junkie forums has some great threads on converting them for wood. there is this PDF as well.


http://vintagemachinery.org/files/PDF/Restoration/Hammond-Glider.PDF


I found a Morrison Company printer saw that i did up for a friend that lives in an apartment and he loves it for the grinder to do his chisel and the bit of woodwork cutting that he does as a carver. i just made the fence and jigs in a simple way for this one.

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/camyssaw001_zps27c41e0c.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/camyssaw001_zps27c41e0c.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/camyssaw002_zps798aa704.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/camyssaw002_zps798aa704.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/camyssaw003_zps72610b82.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/camyssaw003_zps72610b82.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/camyssaw004_zps1d86dfe6.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/camyssaw004_zps1d86dfe6.jpg.html)

[David Kumm]

310760310762 The little Hammond is a one purpose machine although I made a series of sub tables so I can use a miter gauge. It needs different pulleys as it runs too slow but when speeded up and with a WW1 blade it almost burnishes the end grain and has no bottom chip out whatsoever. The stock tape needs to be swapped from PICA to something understandable. I added a box that sits on the existing crosscut stop instead. I keep thinking it is too limiting, but it gets used on almost every project, even with the other three saws nearby. They are just handy. Dave

[John Sincerbeaux]

This thread is perfect timing for me as I am about to pull the trigger on a new Martin T60C slider. My cut lists range from cutting mdf and plywood down to smaller size panels as well as cutting thin strips of hardwood for inlay.
I have made many different sleds for different tasks and every time I do, I think of how nice it would be to have a slider.
My one concern was/is if I could still perform the very small/thin work? I am confident not only I can but in a far safer way with the slider.
Any of you guys have a technique/jig to rip repetatedly very thin strips (1/16) using the sliding table? I have an idea, just curious what other guys do?

thanks

[Joe Calhoon]

John, The same Fritz and Franz jig we have been talking about is useful for ripping also.
See here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqzVglze9Nk
You can use this easy for up to 6 or 8' lengths depending on the material. We have a little different technique on our T72 slider for longer material. These jigs will revolutionize the way the slider is used. With the fence back you will not get any pinch or burning and blade life longer.Another bonus is hands away from the blade and you are positioned to the side in the event of kickback.
If you want to take it a step further look at Mac Campsure's Airtight Clamps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K158lvI2pXU&list=PLkOczVrfGTquqwMUD0Qvt_HXDcsVlVhic&index=10

They work well for a lot of operations.
I will get some pictures of ripping on our slider.

[David Kumm]

www.airtightclamps.com. I have a couple of sets, and am not affiliated. Just think they are as handy on a slider as a powerfeeder on a shaper. Dave

[Joe Calhoon]

Sorry not seeing it guys. the foam can't be that accurate can it?? do you have a jig that both sides of the blade as that might do it for me? Joe i would not call glass bed for IG needing a second cut . long pieces are easy to fit its the short pieces were taking about here and not your run of the mill 45 or 90 I think Peter said 5 different angles and very short (2.5").. I like my wadkin and have made some jigs for it too but i am glade its not the only saw in the shop. The fact that your tiring to make these short cuts on the slider is fun to watch but there are better machines and you know it. Even Joe uses the chop saw.

could be i missed the point of the thread and that it was all about big sliders and jigs and not how to cut accurate short chip free work with many angles. I like my tools as much as the next guy so call me thick on this one if it was about tools.

Jack I am not depending on the gasket for a chip breaker. It is silicone not foam. Its only purpose is to hold the work. You probably cannot see it in the picture but my fence has a chip breaker that compensates to any angle and the length stop does also. Truth is with the right blade you don't need a chip breaker.
See this cut from the Omga with a high count tooth FS ATB blade. And yes this setup is more for short pieces. We normally use the Omga for longer parts.
310791
Your Wadkin would be well served by adding a ELG type device like Joe in New Orleans did for his Felder. Its too bad Wadkin did not put a miter slot in the table so you could Fritz and Franz.
310792

You seem to want to tear this method apart with out ever experiencing it. It provides good humor if nothing else. I will repeat that I have used all the table saw jigs for many years and now they only gather dust in the shop

[Gregory Stahl]

Another satisfied Airtight Clamp user--Mac came to my shop last summer and helped install them. These are very well engineered--Mac did a great job. I only wish I would have bought them years ago.

Below, you can see the fence pulled back and the clamps. Push the stock to fence and clamp to table--if stock is wide enough. If stock is too narrow--the Fritz and Franz jig would work if the stock is rigid enough. Altendorf included a handle to make this jig with the saw accessories and shows it in the manual.

Also, if your stock is not tall, I would turn the fence on its side so the overhead guard can be pulled down.


310797310799

Best,
Greg Stahl

[jack forsberg]

Jack I am not depending on the gasket for a chip breaker. It is silicone not foam. Its only purpose is to hold the work. You probably cannot see it in the picture but my fence has a chip breaker that compensates to any angle and the length stop does also. Truth is with the right blade you don't need a chip breaker.
See this cut from the Omga with a high count tooth FS ATB blade. And yes this setup is more for short pieces. We normally use the Omga for longer parts.
310791
Your Wadkin would be well served by adding a ELG type device like Joe in New Orleans did for his Felder. Its too bad Wadkin did not put a miter slot in the table so you could Fritz and Franz.
310792

You seem to want to tear this method apart with out ever experiencing it. It provides good humor if nothing else. I will repeat that I have used all the table saw jigs for many years and now they only gather dust in the shop


Joe i'm plenty qualified to asked questions on how a table saw works and your plenty qualified to answer. so you have to make a an angled sliding fronzy holder for each angled cut and read a led to change the fence to the angle the putter told you? is that fixed at 90 the ELG(no adjustment)? looks like the blade hit the slider a little bit. To bad there is not wood lips no sure is the slider on your moves in?. Joe i find it far more amusing that you need to compare my 70 year old saw to yours. No i will keep my fence for the wadkin because i hate finding battery and yes the wadkin does have a miter slots in the sliding table it is just filed with a precision cast iron ground filler for the protractor etchings. Was very surprised you did not show fir for the cut as that is one of your main. Joe i don't see anyone else asking these questions so if you find that there not pertinent to the build of these machines just say so and i will stop. I see holes all over the place in the design and for the money these cost you think that they have these features on them in the first place.

Yes its fun Joe

just because a table slides is not a reason to use it for all cuts! while the slider can straight line cut only holding the wood at the end will inject an mount of inaccurate as stress in the wood is removed with each cut and lets face it you need wider boards for long rips with the air clamps holding only the ends and the middle without any integrity. the gaps around the blade will not do very thin strips ether so there is a limit there too. But its all about how great the tools are i get it as i have said.

here is jig that has no limits i, is far more accurate for work like inlays. and as Peter has asked low cost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you need to rip strips that are the same size and accurate you can make a simple fixture that uses the same short fence and riving knife principals but is home made. Some like to have the cutoff fall to the out side/waste side of the cut but this means you have to move the fence for each cut. this fixture is easy to set up and you don't change the setting and the wood is controlled at the cut to compensate for wood tension .

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/photo3_zps4ed994a1.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/photo3_zps4ed994a1.jpg.html)

all this is is a piece of flat stock keyed to the miter slot and a front stop with the blade cut up through the thickness of the work to rip. when you set it up to cut screw down a temporary piece flush with the right side of the blade coming up through. Then lay your strip that your would like to cut(this one is set to cut 1/32") against the screwed down board (saw line) and place the in-feed short fence to stop just in front the saw blade.

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/photo2_zps6fec1d0a.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/photo2_zps6fec1d0a.jpg.html)

you put the back splinter right behind the blade with the wedge pushing the thin strip off cut away from the blade and off the same board you screws down(cut line) this gives you the short long fence so all should be happy:p

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/photo1_zps81a2c1a5.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/photo1_zps81a2c1a5.jpg.html)
you do have to handle the wood and push it though and i see this is not the way its done any more. Call me old fashioned.:D

[Larry Edgerton]

Peter

Just a thought. I have a magnet on my carriage that will hold a feeler gauge. I find it usefull for when a piece needs just a tweak so I don't have to try to change my setup such a minute amount. The magnet rides in the rail and can be slid back and forth, the feeler gauge going between the stock and the fence. Faster for me but my fence is a bit crude compared to what you are using, old Minimax junk.

[Peter Quinn]

Peter

Just a thought. I have a magnet on my carriage that will hold a feeler gauge. I find it usefull for when a piece needs just a tweak so I don't have to try to change my setup such a minute amount. The magnet rides in the rail and can be slid back and forth, the feeler gauge going between the stock and the fence. Faster for me but my fence is a bit crude compared to what you are using, old Minimax junk.

I like the feeler guage idea, I usually use post its or psa sandpaper for the same purpose, it would be nice to have something that was more repeatable, etc. and less sticky. I remember the old Mark duginski vhs video I took from the library some years ago, he holds up a pile of aluminum jigs and measuring aids and in his calm demeaner states "all these can be replaced with this simple measuring device....a pack of post it notes...micro adjustable to .004"!" . I still like using the post its. Maybe I'll make up something for he purpose with a little magnet, pretty sure there is a set of feeler guards in my tool box somewhere.

[Kevin Jenness]

I have a dial indicator with a magnetic back that I use for fine fence adjustment- you can get such a back as a retrofit for at least some makes.

[Keith Weber]

I was hoping to come to this thread and crap all over someone else's cool posting, then bombard it with pics and videos of my own stuff, point out flaws in other methods that I don't use, and portray an attitude that you're not cool unless you do as I do, but I see that Jack's already got that covered. Now how do I get one of those rolling-eyes emoticons?

Peter and Joe,

Excellent ideas with the sliders. Thanks! I hope to see more.

[Joe Calhoon]

Joe i'm plenty qualified to asked questions on how a table saw works and your plenty qualified to answer. so you have to make a an angled sliding fronzy holder for each angled cut and read a led to change the fence to the angle the putter told you? is that fixed at 90 the ELG(no adjustment)? looks like the blade hit the slider a little bit. To bad there is not wood lips no sure is the slider on your moves in?. Joe i find it far more amusing that you need to compare my 70 year old saw to yours. No i will keep my fence for the wadkin because i hate finding battery and yes the wadkin does have a miter slots in the sliding table it is just filed with a precision cast iron ground filler for the protractor etchings. Was very surprised you did not show fir for the cut as that is one of your main. Joe i don't see anyone else asking these questions so if you find that there not pertinent to the build of these machines just say so and i will stop. I see holes all over the place in the design and for the money these cost you think that they have these features on them in the first place.

Yes its fun Joe

just because a table slides is not a reason to use it for all cuts! while the slider can straight line cut only holding the wood at the end will inject an mount of inaccurate as stress in the wood is removed with each cut and lets face it you need wider boards for long rips with the air clamps holding only the ends and the middle without any integrity. the gaps around the blade will not do very thin strips ether so there is a limit there too. But its all about how great the tools are i get it as i have said.

here is jig that has no limits i, is far more accurate for work like inlays. and as Peter has asked low cost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you need to rip strips that are the same size and accurate you can make a simple fixture that uses the same short fence and riving knife principals but is home made. Some like to have the cutoff fall to the out side/waste side of the cut but this means you have to move the fence for each cut. this fixture is easy to set up and you don't change the setting and the wood is controlled at the cut to compensate for wood tension .



all this is is a piece of flat stock keyed to the miter slot and a front stop with the blade cut up through the thickness of the work to rip. when you set it up to cut screw down a temporary piece flush with the right side of the blade coming up through. Then lay your strip that your would like to cut(this one is set to cut 1/32") against the screwed down board (saw line) and place the in-feed short fence to stop just in front the saw blade.



you put the back splinter right behind the blade with the wedge pushing the thin strip off cut away from the blade and off the same board you screws down(cut line) this gives you the short long fence so all should be happy:p


you do have to handle the wood and push it though and i see this is not the way its done any more. Call me old fashioned.:D

Jack, I will attempt to answer your questions

Joe i'm plenty qualified to asked questions on how a table saw works and your plenty qualified to answer. so you have to make a an angled sliding fronzy holder for each angled cut and read a led to change the fence to the angle the putter told you? Jack Remember we are only talking about short pieces here. The angled pusher I show is fixed at 45. In the posts Kevin showed his adjustable angle miter gauge that gave me the idea for an angle pusher that is adjustable for all angles. So Just one “fonzy holder” needed

is that fixed at 90 the ELG(no adjustment)? Not sure the question here. The ELG does all angles and I think they have length compensation. But I have no experience using one. Maybe someone in the know will chime in.

looks like the blade hit the slider a little bit. Yes, If you need to know the story this saw was bought used 2 weeks old. A shop in SLC made a deal with Martin and Altendorf to bring in both saws to try for a while and pick one. He picked the Altendorf and the dealer gave me a very good deal on the saw. I do not know what they did to put those in but the saw works fine.

To bad there is not wood lips no sure is the slider on your moves in?. The lip is replaceable and I suppose I could make a wood replacement but why? No the table does not crank in and out like my old T75. I did like that. Martin has a different system for putting in a dado or shaper cutter on the arbor on the newer saws.

Joe i find it far more amusing that you need to compare my 70 year old saw to yours. ??? Jack what comparisons have I made? This whole discussion was about cutting small pieces on the slider.

No i will keep my fence for the wadkin because i hate finding battery and yes the wadkin does have a miter slots in the sliding table it is just filed with a precision cast iron ground filler for the protractor etchings.
Good, now you can make your own Fritz and Franz and give an informed opinion!

Was very surprised you did not show fir for the cut as that is one of your main.
Here you go Jack. The wonder of modern saw blades. I also trimmed a corner sample for a customer using a Kanafusa combo blade. The results are pretty good with just a little fuzz, no chipout. This blade is whisper quiet and rips and crosscuts effortlessly. Not a fine cutting blade for cabinet work though.
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Joe i don't see anyone else asking these questions so if you find that there not pertinent to the build of these machines just say so and i will stop. I see holes all over the place in the design and for the money these cost you think that they have these features on them in the first place. You are the only one asking Jack. I worked many years in the shop only using table saws and producing good accurate work. Using all the jigs you describe. I have had sliders only the last 25 years. Yes I like the sliders but not trying to prove anything here. It started as a discussion among guys using sliders. I like the old iron for some machines but I am in business to make a living, pay a living wage, enjoy the work and make quality items. Using all antique machinery and the time spent to restore would not allow this. But if it works for you that’s great!



Yes its fun Joe I would rather be skiing!

just because a table slides is not a reason to use it for all cuts! while the slider can straight line cut only holding the wood at the end will inject an mount of inaccurate as stress in the wood is removed with each cut and lets face it you need wider boards for long rips with the air clamps holding only the ends and the middle without any integrity.
I don’t really know what you are getting at here Jack. We straight lined for a while on a slider before getting the straight line rip. It works pretty well. The initial cut is fine but the rips that follow will give problems if the wood has stress. Yes with this jig you need a wider board. At least a ½” wider for Fritz and Franz. Probably more with the air clamps. We normally start with a wide board for ripping thin strips anyway. Using the slider like this with the fence back is sort of how the SLR works so you don’t get the stress with the fence pinch. It is hard to explain with out experiencing it first hand. But I can tell you it works very well.
the gaps around the blade will not do very thin strips ether so there is a limit there too. The Martin will take a zero insert.
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But its all about how great the tools are i get it as i have said.
I am glad you get something!

here is jig that has no limits i, is far more accurate for work like inlays. and as Peter has asked low cost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you need to rip strips that are the same size and accurate you can make a simple fixture that uses the same short fence and riving knife principals but is home made. Some like to have the cutoff fall to the out side/waste side of the cut but this means you have to move the fence for each cut. this fixture is easy to set up and you don't change the setting and the wood is controlled at the cut to compensate for wood tension .

Peter was asking about a jig for a slider. A shop built Fritz & Franz would be quicker to make and faster to set than this. But the jig you show is a good for someone only using a table saw. I remember the original posting for this jig from a guy on the OWWM site.
If you need really accurate small sections its best to rip oversize and go to the jointer and planer or S4S machine. We can also do narrow rips on the SLR but find the slider the most accurate for an off the blade cut. We also sometimes rough rip already small sections on the resaw just because it is safer.
Table saw would be the last choice for ripping anything in my shop.

Hope this answers your questions Jack

[jack forsberg]

thanks Joe . very surprised how well that blade cuts by the look of the teeth. thanks for the run down on that slider. I do not do the same type work Joe as you so i do have a different look at things and i am odd that way. I like to ask these types question because they seams like good one to ask for someone who would not know what makes a slider better at some things and not all. The jig i posted was shown to me by someone from the North Bennett St school to cut purflings inlays that were made in shop so there not very wide to begin with and very delicate. All good information

[Joe Calhoon]

John,
As promised here are some pictures and simple video of ripping small pieces using the Fritz & Franz and the Airtight clamps. With the Airtight you could rip the whole length of the slider with no issue. With the Fritz anything over 6' gets a little shaky unless a helper is available. I had to make a 2mm thick short piece of inlay the other day. It was quicker than the planer or wide belt for just one piece.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTxnBA7kYTo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF8cYFXP9sE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhFWyMNyWus

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[Peter Quinn]

Joe, can you tell me more about the rubber or silicone strip in the Fritz and Franz jig? I watched the construction video of that jig, but all in German, so i missed most of the permanent information! Is that something readily available? Thanks for any info. I'm figuring to make a set of those the next available free minute in the shop.

[Joe Calhoon]

Peter,
The German kit uses a soft T moulding. We located some T moulding here we thought might work but would have to buy a large quantity. I had this silicone dry window gasket Resource Conservation sells and it works pretty well. When I have time I would like to make another set with screw points sticking out for ripping.

[Kevin Jenness]

I just use sandpaper on mine.