Home Depot Workers make me shake my head

[Rob Holcomb]

Today, I put together my new band saw. It was wired for 220v and didn't come with a cord or plug. So off to Home Depot I go. I buy 10/3 wire and a plug and head back home. I wire the saw up and after finishing putting everything together, I want to fire up the saw to test it out. The plug I bought wouldn't fit into the plug in the wall. I mistakenly bought a 20A plug and the wall outlet has a 30A receptacle. So back to Home Depot I go. Of course, I can't find the right plug so a worker about 65 years old asks if he can help. I explain what I need and he starts asking me questions about what I need the plug for. I tell him its for my band saw. He asks how many amps does the saw use and I tell him its wired for 220v and the motor pulls 10 amps. He says, I'm no electrician but you can't do that. You'll trip the breaker or worse, burn up your motor. I look at him puzzled and then I said, with your way of thinking, if I have a 20 amp receptacle in my house and I plug a lamp into it rated for less than 1 amp, I'll trip the breaker or burn up my lamp? The saw motor only uses 10 amps. I have 30 amps available but I won't be using 30 amps of power. He says, well here's the right plug but just be careful. You don't want to start a fire. I took the plug and left. When I got home, I wired it up and the saw works fine.

[mike mcilroy]

so a worker about 65 years old asks if he can help.

Wow I've never not had to go on safari to track one down and he approached you?

[Mel Fulks]

Rob, did the guy have full facial hair? Sounds like with little TV work now .....Smokey Bear might have a part time job.

[David B Thornton]

I get the same thing from the people at my local Lowe's. I don't like going there unless I don't have an option, but it's funny to hear their logic when I know what I'm talking about.

[Daniel O'Neill]

I get the same thing from the people at my local Lowe's. I don't like going there unless I don't have an option, but it's funny to hear their logic when I know what I'm talking about.
Sometimes even when I don't know much about the topic the big box logic still throws me for a loop. (example buy this 1/2" connector to fit your 3/4" pipe....)

[Steve Meliza]

If they know something helpful you can't find them but if they are clueless and unable to offer real help you can't beat them off with a stick. I go to Home Depot if I want low prices and Platt if I want an intelligent conversation on my needs.

[Wayne Lovell]

If they know something helpful you can't find them but if they are clueless and unable to offer real help you can't beat them off with a stick. I go to Home Depot if I want low prices and Platt if I want an intelligent conversation on my needs.

Pay the extra and go to your local (Platt) store or they may not be there when you need them.

[Roy Harding]

Pay the extra and go to your local (Platt) store or they may not be there when you need them.

EXCELLENT point. If you're looking for knowledgeable advice in any big box store, you're looking in the wrong place.

[Phil Thien]

Well just stand back when you power it up, because one of these times it is going to splode.

You're feeding it 3x the amps it needs.

A very dangerous situation.

[Lee Schierer]

Good to hear that you didn't burn down your shop running that 10 amp saw on a 30 amp breaker. Just be sure your wiring is rated for the possibility of a 30 amp draw in the future when you upgrade to a bigger saw.

I've been to both big box stores and on more than one occasion, I've overheard really bad advice being given to a customer. I've waited until the "helper" leaves and then correct the advice. I have encountered a few employees that actually do know what they are talking about as well.

[Paul Wunder]

My perspective when I go to a big box store is that they are a vast warehouse with many aisles and shelves which can sometimes be confusing.

The only help that I expect and trust is where to find something. I do not expect that anyone will actually help me with a technical question. There was a time that knowledgeable people were available but the late 80's is no longer with us.

[Bryan Wiesendahl]

Every single home depot "associate" I've encountered has been entirely unhelpful. Not because they aren't nice people, but because they're just people working a job that don't really have a passion for what their doing.

Except this one guy... He usually works the plumbing section, but if I have to ask him where something is he can tell me. If I walk in and spout off compression vs MPT vs solder vs etc etc he can follow along and gets the gist of what I'm looking for. I make sure I'm always nice to him.

Big bearded guy with long hair and a bandanna. Super nice too.

[William Payer]

Wow I've never not had to go on safari to track one down and he approached you?


Mike,

I have found a sure fire way to get someone to help you at the orange box store. Find one of those big rolling ladder things and start walking up the stairs being sure to make a little noise. The employees have apparently been trained to stop customers from being on them ( most likely for liability reasons) and they will be at your side in seconds telling you that you cannot climb them. I acknowledge their presence and then ask them to help me find the item I am looking for!

[Phil Thien]

Every single home depot "associate" I've encountered has been entirely unhelpful. Not because they aren't nice people, but because they're just people working a job that don't really have a passion for what their doing.

Except this one guy... He usually works the plumbing section, but if I have to ask him where something is he can tell me. If I walk in and spout off compression vs MPT vs solder vs etc etc he can follow along and gets the gist of what I'm looking for. I make sure I'm always nice to him.

Big bearded guy with long hair and a bandanna. Super nice too.

My local BORG employs a couple of electricians (one retired, one just trying to pickup some extra cash) so those isles are covered pretty well.

Beyond that, few of the people working at Home Depot are homeowners or have any experience with the sorts of projects customers hope to accomplish.

On the rare occasion they do find someone qualified, they seem incapable of keeping them employed for any period of time.

[Mel Fulks]

William, I tried that. Made it to the top and started belting out some show tunes. Crowd went wild and wouldn't let me
off stage for two hours!!

[Leo Graywacz]

When they ask me if I need help I tell them "I'm all set thank you".

If I don't know what I'm looking for then I shouldn't be doing the project.

[mike mcilroy]

Mike,

I have found a sure fire way to get someone to help you at the orange box store. Find one of those big rolling ladder things and start walking up the stairs being sure to make a little noise. The employees have apparently been trained to stop customers from being on them ( most likely for liability reasons) and they will be at your side in seconds telling you that you cannot climb them. I acknowledge their presence and then ask them to help me find the item I am looking for!

Always learning new things on SMC

[Ray Newman]

For awhile, the local lumberyard in town had a 20-something running the panel saw and he had a difficult time remembering the difference between a rip and a cross cut.

[Matt Mattingley]

I like to tell them I'm building a flux capacitor and I just really need help finding what I'm looking for. Some of them get inside joke then they say no really what are you doing. And when I tell them I'm building Rotary phase converter, I just love the look on their face. I tell them I need 600 V of electricity to run some of my tools. Some of them look at me like I have two heads. I get a kick out of it.

[Todd Burch]

If you go a lot (and I do) you get to learn who to ask and who not to ask. Too often I'm staring an isle down, looking for something, and they ask if they can help. I tell them I'm looking for such and such, and more often than not, I get a glazed look back at me, as if I'm not talking English. So, I too have found it's best to limit my questions to "what isle are the whatever's on?" And, the whatever usually isn't the item I am looking for. For instance, I was looking for perforated strapping and metal foil tape the other day when I was hanging DC pipe. I simply asked "what isle is your duct work on?". That worked well.

Now, on your band saw, I'm with Phil. A 30 AMP circuit for a 10 AMP motor is a bit too much for my blood. Perhaps that is what the helper was trying to elude to in a failed way. Methinks I would be installing a 15 AMP 220V receptacle and plug. You can find them on the electrical isle. ;) You can leave the wire in the wall, and just change out the breaker and receptacle.

Todd

[Mike Null]

I buy most of my dyi stuff at HD because they always give me a 10% vets discount--Lowe's doesn't. Their people are helpful if not expert but what do you expect given what HD has to do to make money.

[Al Launier]

My experience basically mirrors what has been stated above, especially for Lowes. However, I have found some very knowledable "Associates" at HD that I make an effort to go back to for assistance. I think these people are the "Leaders" of the area they serve as they are much more helpful than the others that do a slow walk-around to kill time. Comparing HD with Lowes, I've found Lowes' Associates to be much less knowledgable than those at HD.

[Justin Ludwig]

Well just stand back when you power it up, because one of these times it is going to splode.

You're feeding it 3x the amps it needs.

A very dangerous situation.

Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm no electrician. Amps aren't "fed", they are drawn by the motor, right? 30amp breaker allows a maximum draw/pull of 30amps before it "pops". The motor could overload if not properly used and has to potential to receive 30amps, but under normal use, only draws 10amps from the line.

My shaper is 5hp and draws 25amps at full load. Circuit requirement according to the book is 40amp.

[David Masters]

I once asked a guy at Lowes where I could find a block and tackle. I was told Lowes doesn't sell fishing gear.

[Rob Holcomb]

That would be correct Justin.


Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm no electrician. Amps aren't "fed", they are drawn by the motor, right? 30amp breaker allows a maximum draw/pull of 30amps before it "pops". The motor could overload if not properly used and has to potential to receive 30amps, but under normal use, only draws 10amps from the line.

My shaper is 5hp and draws 25amps at full load. Circuit requirement according to the book is 40amp.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm no electrician. Amps aren't "fed", they are drawn by the motor, right? 30amp breaker allows a maximum draw/pull of 30amps before it "pops". The motor could overload if not properly used and has to potential to receive 30amps, but under normal use, only draws 10amps from the line.

My shaper is 5hp and draws 25amps at full load. Circuit requirement according to the book is 40amp.

Yep, you've got the logic. I'm pretty sure Phil's post was 100% sarcastic. :-)

[Peter Aeschliman]

Slightly off topic advice here: everybody who shops at HD regularly absolutely NEEDS to download the home depot app. You can select your store, search for what you need, and see of the have it in stock. If they do, it will tell you not only the aisle number, but the bin it's in.

You can also look up customer reviews on the product you're holding in your hand. That has helped me avoid buying junk products and has helped me buy the best thing when I have multiple options.

If you don't like interacting with the HD staff, the app really reduces those interactions.

So, DOWNLOAD THE APP! It's really great.

[Leo Graywacz]

You don't even need the app. Just go online with a mobile device and you can get that information. At least on an Android device you can.

[Peter Aeschliman]

You don't even need the app. Just go online with a mobile device and you can get that information. At least on an Android device you can.

Yep, but the app is faster and better optimized for your phone.

[Leo Graywacz]

Did you look at the list of things the APP need access to on your phone? Thank you...no.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Did you look at the list of things the APP need access to on your phone? Thank you...no.

To each his own, man. But I think it's a reasonable suggestion...

[David C. Roseman]

Wow, tough crowd! My reaction to Rob's story when I read it was, how nice that the employee saw he was having trouble, offered to help, then got concerned about his safety. He did start with a full disclaimer on the electrical advice. ;)

[Ole Anderson]

Our HD often has an electrician in the electrical section and there is a gal in the plumbing that really knows her stuff, even for plumbing natural gas.

[jack duren]

I'm a bit confused on why you would have a 10amp tool connected to a 30 amp breaker. Does it pull 25 amps to start up the bandsaw?

[Leo Graywacz]

I'm sure it's a catch all receptacle. Put there for use on whatever tool might be plugged into it.

[jack duren]

Hum...Poor bandsaw

[jack duren]

Did he say it was a catch all when asking about a breaker for a 10 amp bandsaw? Im trying to figure out why a 10 amp bandsaw has a 30 amp plug?

[David C. Roseman]

Hum...Poor bandsaw

Don't know, of course, but I suspect the confused gentleman who was helping Rob at HD was probably thinking along these same lines: That a circuit protected by a 30 amp breaker could let the bandsaw motor burn up and/or start a fire because the BS could draw too much current for its own good if overloaded (e.g., trying to hog too much wood). From a code (NEC) perspective, that's actually looking at it backwards, as the circuit breakers in the building are intended (and sized) to protect the building's wiring against overcurrent conditions, not the devices that are plugged into it. Which is one reason many machine motors have a thermal overload breaker built into them.

BTW, there are a number of real electricians on this board who could chime in. I, like the HD clerk, am not one of them. :)

[jack duren]

Machines should be dedicated and not catch all. A 220 band saw is not a portable tool. But to double check myself since I'm not an electrician I'll ask the certified commercial electrician at work Monday;).

[Leo Graywacz]

If you put it on a mobile base it is. Some people don't have the luxury of space.

[Ole Anderson]

If a 10 amp motor is connected with 10 amp wire up to the plug, and for some reason the motor stalled and started pulling near 30 amps and didn't trip its overheat, then you could burn up the 10 amp wire. Maybe that is what he had in mind. As previously suggested, just in different words.

[Phil Thien]

If a 10 amp motor is connected with 10 amp wire up to the plug, and for some reason the motor stalled and started pulling near 30 amps and didn't trip its overheat, then you could burn up the 10 amp wire. Maybe that is what he had in mind. As previously suggested, just in different words.

For answers to questions like these, we need simply look at countries where they use 220 for household. The cords attached to devices are sized for the draw of that device. So a clock radio has a small cord, a vacuum cleaner a suitably larger gauge.

The breaker protects the cable in the wall. It is up to the appliance to protect itself.

[Julie Moriarty]

Today, I put together my new band saw. It was wired for 220v and didn't come with a cord or plug. So off to Home Depot I go. I buy 10/3 wire and a plug and head back home. I wire the saw up and after finishing putting everything together, I want to fire up the saw to test it out. The plug I bought wouldn't fit into the plug in the wall. I mistakenly bought a 20A plug and the wall outlet has a 30A receptacle. So back to Home Depot I go. Of course, I can't find the right plug so a worker about 65 years old asks if he can help. I explain what I need and he starts asking me questions about what I need the plug for. I tell him its for my band saw. He asks how many amps does the saw use and I tell him its wired for 220v and the motor pulls 10 amps. He says, I'm no electrician but you can't do that. You'll trip the breaker or worse, burn up your motor. I look at him puzzled and then I said, with your way of thinking, if I have a 20 amp receptacle in my house and I plug a lamp into it rated for less than 1 amp, I'll trip the breaker or burn up my lamp? The saw motor only uses 10 amps. I have 30 amps available but I won't be using 30 amps of power. He says, well here's the right plug but just be careful. You don't want to start a fire. I took the plug and left. When I got home, I wired it up and the saw works fine.

This is one of the reasons I fail to understand why so many home centers won't sell you a furnace because, as they will tell you, you need a licensed installer. "This needs to be done right or it could be dangerous!" But walk over to the electrical aisles and there's everything you need to electrocute yourself or burn your house down and happy aisle workers dispensing their very limited knowledge.

A proper electrical installation is far more complex than most believe. I have met only one big box store electrical aisle worker who knows what he's talking about. The rest need to stop giving that kind of advice.

Rob, be careful about those plugs laying around your house. They will find the nearest outlet and suck all the power out!

[Phil Thien]

This is one of the reasons I fail to understand why so many home centers won't sell you a furnace because, as they will tell you, you need a licensed installer. "This needs to be done right or it could be dangerous!" But walk over to the electrical aisles and there's everything you need to electrocute yourself or burn your house down and happy aisle workers dispensing their very limited knowledge.

A proper electrical installation is far more complex than most believe. I have met only one big box store electrical aisle worker who knows what he's talking about. The rest need to stop giving that kind of advice.

Rob, be careful about those plugs laying around your house. They will find the nearest outlet and suck all the power out!

My HD has a couple of electricians working the isles. One of them is a guy I've used in the past.

But about a year ago I was visiting to pickup a couple of things and I saw the older (retired) electrician/now HD employee talking to someone and you could see the concern in the electrician's eyes.

I guess all they can do is give proper advice and leave it at that.

[Larry Edgerton]

This is one of the reasons I fail to understand why so many home centers won't sell you a furnace because, as they will tell you, you need a licensed installer. "This needs to be done right or it could be dangerous!" But walk over to the electrical aisles and there's everything you need to electrocute yourself or burn your house down and happy aisle workers dispensing their very limited knowledge.

A proper electrical installation is far more complex than most believe. I have met only one big box store electrical aisle worker who knows what he's talking about. The rest need to stop giving that kind of advice.

Rob, be careful about those plugs laying around your house. They will find the nearest outlet and suck all the power out!

Julie, I agree with you wholeheartedly! I am a contractor, and I will not so much as wire an outlet. I do not know what I am doing. I hire the best or the homeowners can find their own.

I hear all the time how easy it is by people that I know do not know Jack. Even in my own house it was all done by a pro. I wouldn't mind dieing in my sleep, but not because of an electrical fire.

[Phil Thien]

Julie, I agree with you wholeheartedly! I am a contractor, and I will not so much as wire an outlet. I do not know what I am doing. I hire the best or the homeowners can find their own.

I hear all the time how easy it is by people that I know do not know Jack. Even in my own house it was all done by a pro. I wouldn't mind dieing in my sleep, but not because of an electrical fire.

Yeah, on the other hand, I've hired electricians that do pretty crappy work, too. I'm talking stranded wire wrapped around a screw with half the strands coming out, feeding a high-current device.

That is actually one of the things that drives me nuts about electricians: Many use of the cheapest grade carp, and tend to recycle stuff like switches and receptacles that should be retired/recycled. In my case (above) the use of a side-clamping receptacle (all of $1.50 or $2) would have been the right move. But the electrician used a $.33 receptacle (the price tag was still on it!) because it was cheap.

Or another case where an electrician (a different one) ran some cables behind an HVAC return he just "shoved them up there." Inspector didn't catch it, would have flagged him had he caught it. Perfect application for bridle rings.

[Brian Holcombe]

I agree with Phil. I prefer to research my approach and do my own because I do not mind socking away the hours doing detailed work.

[Rob Holcomb]

For those of you that have inquired whether my 220V circuit is a "catch-all" circuit, yes it is. Because I only have one 220V outlet, I have it wired to accommodate 30Amps because I have three tools now that require 220V. My Band Saw of course, my Table saw that requires 13Amps and my planer which requires a “minimal” circuit size of 25Amps (20Amps continual/25Amps peak). I went with a 30Amp circuit to avoid being at the “minimal” requirement per the specs. In an ideal shop setting, you would want a separate 220V outlet set up with the correct size breaker for the corresponding tool. In the real world, I have a small hobbyist woodworking shop and I’m not about to rip out my walls to install more wiring and put in more 220V outlets. Sometimes you make do with the situation you have. I bet for everyone that has responded in this thread that thinks I’m risking a problem, I could go in their shop and point out a situation that isn’t perfect either and poses a risk. Maybe not an electrical problem but some risk of some sort. It wouldn’t make any sense to spend hundreds of dollars and countless hours of work to install new 220V outlets to run a band saw and table saw for 30 minutes a week in most instances. People like to spend other peoples money so until someone sends me the money to do what they think I should, I’ll use one outlet for my three tools. I will be watching my PM's closely for your bank account numbers so I can make things the way you think it should be and I can stop being scorned by some of you.

I posted this thread to share how one employee of Home Depot offered his opinions on a topic he wasn’t very knowledgeable in when all I asked him to do was to lead me to the bin where the 30Amp plugs were. In most cases, you can’t find an employee in the stores when needed and in my case, I got an employee that outright told me I couldn’t do something that I knew I could. That should never happen but happens all the time. Is it ideal? no. Does it work? yes it does. Should I have gone to an electrical supply store rather than Home Depot? Maybe, but it was Good Friday. Electrical Supply stores in my area were closed for the holiday weekend. I had the time to put my band saw together and Home Depot was open.

[Leo Graywacz]

The thinking that a 30 amp circuit running a machine of smaller draw causing a problem is a falsity.

The circuit breaker on the 30 amp circuit is there only to protect the wire in the wall from the breaker box to the receptacle. That's it. It's not there for overload protection of the machine.

The same applies when you plug a 100w lamp into a 14a circuit. You are drawing much less then the circuit can deliver, so that makes it dangerous. No.

A lot of higher power motors have a magnetic starter. This is what protects the motor. Other lower power motors don't have that and I suppose there is the chance that some odd predicament could start a fire. But you are also suppose to mind your machines and not let them run unattended.

Having a "catch all" circuit in a house or a shop is very common. Just about every outlet in your home could be considered a catch all receptacle. There are a few that are specified for a single use. MW, DW, Disposal, Oven/stove. This is mostly in the kitchen.

[Rob Holcomb]

Exactly Leo! You understand while many don't. Having a catch all receptacle is very common in a home shop setting! Maybe all of these naysayers on here should take their own advice and replace all of their non dedicated household breakers that are likely rated for 15A-20A and install the smallest breakers they can find since most of the lighting we have in our homes use 1 amp or less and that's what is most commonly plugged into outlets. Leave one 15Amp breaker for a vacuum cleaner because they use about 12Amps and one for a coffeemaker. They use about 10Amps. I hope no one plugs anything into an outlet rated for 20Amps!!! They are sure to be destroyed.

[John Sincerbeaux]

Over the years I have received a wealth of helpful info from HD and Lowe's employees. In fact I have wanted to hire a few guys before. Does anyone here really expect ANY employee at a huge store like HD to know every product in that store or how to build a home from the plumbing to the roof?
It would be interesting to see how fast it would take any one of us to get humbled on the floor of HD?

[jack duren]

Exactly Leo! You understand while many don't. Having a catch all receptacle is very common in a home shop setting! Maybe all of these naysayers on here should take their own advice and replace all of their non dedicated household breakers that are likely rated for 15A-20A and install the smallest breakers they can find since most of the lighting we have in our homes use 1 amp or less and that's what is most commonly plugged into outlets. Leave one 15Amp breaker for a vacuum cleaner because they use about 12Amps and one for a coffeemaker. They use about 10Amps. I hope no one plugs anything into an outlet rated for 20Amps!!! They are sure to be destroyed.

A house and a shop are two different things. I'm glad I have certified electricians at work to help when I have a question. The advise I hear here is dangerous. Keep the smoke detectors up to date....

[Phil Thien]

A house and a shop are two different things. I'm glad I have certified electricians at work to help when I have a question. The advise I hear here is dangerous. Keep the smoke detectors up to date....

With all due respect, they really aren't.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with connecting a 240V tool that draws 10A to a circuit that can supply 30A.

As I mentioned above, that is exactly how most of the world does things.

[Julie Moriarty]

The thinking that a 30 amp circuit running a machine of smaller draw causing a problem is a falsity.

The circuit breaker on the 30 amp circuit is there only to protect the wire in the wall from the breaker box to the receptacle. That's it. It's not there for overload protection of the machine.

The same applies when you plug a 100w lamp into a 14a circuit. You are drawing much less then the circuit can deliver, so that makes it dangerous. No.

A lot of higher power motors have a magnetic starter. This is what protects the motor. Other lower power motors don't have that and I suppose there is the chance that some odd predicament could start a fire. But you are also suppose to mind your machines and not let them run unattended.

Having a "catch all" circuit in a house or a shop is very common. Just about every outlet in your home could be considered a catch all receptacle. There are a few that are specified for a single use. MW, DW, Disposal, Oven/stove. This is mostly in the kitchen.

Any type of load that is plugged into an electrical device will usually not be spec'd to a certain sized breaker. Machines in a workshop, usually, are plugged into an outlet. The manufacturers will tell you the minimum sized breaker but they won't require a maximum sized breaker. However, some electrical loads that are hard-wired do have a maximum requirement for breaker size. At those times you need to follow manufacturer's specs. There is no question breakers are there to protect the wiring, but sometimes they are required to protect the equipment too.

[Steve Baumgartner]

To be fair, this problem is hardly limited to big box employees! A number of years ago I needed to repair a leaking toilet, so I went to the local, traditional hardware store. The "helpful" clerk asked what I wanted. I told him I needed a ball cock for a toilet. He replied "I don't think we sell that...what does it do?". So I explained. He said "Oh, you need a fill valve! They're over here." He then walked to the shelf and handed me a box plainly labeled "ball cock".

[Jason Roehl]

Yeah, I had an experience at a local hardware store that made me roll my eyes. I was buying some kind of customer-spec'd finish (the only reason I ever shopped there--I was thankful when they closed because one of their semi-retired owners continued to do paint consults that spec'd exterior oil paint up to about 10 years ago). The associate told me I needed to sand off the mill glaze "that they put on there" off the lumber I was painting or staining. Then last week, an elderly orange borg associate saw my Sherwin-Williams t-shirt and asked if they gave it to me for free. I told him I have about 20 of them. He said I needed a Behr t-shirt... Thankfully, this was all in passing, so I didn't have to go into how and why I avoid borg paints (mostly inconsistent service--to them, 10 gallons of paint is a huge order; to me, it's just getting warmed up on a job).

As for the thread, wire on, Rob...I would sleep just fine wiring your bandsaw the way you did. What would be potentially problematic would be putting a smaller receptacle on that 10-gauge wiring, say a 15A receptacle. It would then be conceivable that someone could go to plug in a 30A device, and instead of swapping out the receptacle, they would swap out the plug for a 15A plug. Then, while the breaker would be protecting the wiring (as it should) and device (bonus because it's also 30A), both the plug and receptacle would be under-rated (subject to overheating and fire at that point).

Something most people don't understand about electrical power: Simply put, higher voltage is more dangerous because it can arc at a greater distance; higher current is more dangerous because it creates more heat.

[Brian Hale]

In my shop the main breaker is 100 amp but my fan only draws .8 amps................ :rolleyes:

[Steve Peterson]

For those of you that have inquired whether my 220V circuit is a "catch-all" circuit, yes it is. Because I only have one 220V outlet, I have it wired to accommodate 30Amps because I have three tools now that require 220V. My Band Saw of course, my Table saw that requires 13Amps and my planer which requires a “minimal” circuit size of 25Amps (20Amps continual/25Amps peak). I went with a 30Amp circuit to avoid being at the “minimal” requirement per the specs. In an ideal shop setting, you would want a separate 220V outlet set up with the correct size breaker for the corresponding tool. In the real world, I have a small hobbyist woodworking shop and I’m not about to rip out my walls to install more wiring and put in more 220V outlets. Sometimes you make do with the situation you have. I bet for everyone that has responded in this thread that thinks I’m risking a problem, I could go in their shop and point out a situation that isn’t perfect either and poses a risk. Maybe not an electrical problem but some risk of some sort. It wouldn’t make any sense to spend hundreds of dollars and countless hours of work to install new 220V outlets to run a band saw and table saw for 30 minutes a week in most instances. People like to spend other peoples money so until someone sends me the money to do what they think I should, I’ll use one outlet for my three tools. I will be watching my PM's closely for your bank account numbers so I can make things the way you think it should be and I can stop being scorned by some of you.

I posted this thread to share how one employee of Home Depot offered his opinions on a topic he wasn’t very knowledgeable in when all I asked him to do was to lead me to the bin where the 30Amp plugs were. In most cases, you can’t find an employee in the stores when needed and in my case, I got an employee that outright told me I couldn’t do something that I knew I could. That should never happen but happens all the time. Is it ideal? no. Does it work? yes it does. Should I have gone to an electrical supply store rather than Home Depot? Maybe, but it was Good Friday. Electrical Supply stores in my area were closed for the holiday weekend. I had the time to put my band saw together and Home Depot was open.

Hi Rob,

I thought it was completely obvious that you had an existing 30A plug that you wanted to use for your bandsaw. I came to this thread hoping to read funny stories about HD employees and was quite surprised to see all the negativity about a perfectly normal situation.

Sorry, I have no HD stories to add. Many of the "helpers" at my local HD are like vultures following you around to try to sell you an air conditioner. I usually head the other direction when I see them coming. Sometimes I just leave and go a few miles further to Lowes where they are a bit more helpful.

Steve

[Rob Holcomb]

Hi Steve, I'm sorry this thread turned into what it did. I did enjoy the few funny stories people told of their experiences and I hope you did too! I wish there had been more! Some people are just naturally negative though and you have to take them with a grain of salt but I'm still waiting for the flood of money to be provided by them so I can make my shop what they think it should be HAHA

[Ole Anderson]

HD, Lowes, Menards: you love to hate them, but in reality, we go there because they often have a better selection and pricing than whatever else is close to us, which is a lot less than it used to be as they have driven a lot of smaller retailers out of business including my favorite hardware store, they lasted less than 2 years after HD moved in.

But, and I will kick myself later for saying this, there was one lady in the plumbing section that knew her stuff and made my heart skip a beat every time she waited on me :o. OK that is my story, what is yours?

[Peter Aeschliman]

HD, Lowes, Menards: you love to hate them, but in reality, we go there because they often have a better selection and pricing than whatever else is close to us, which is a lot less than it used to be as they have driven a lot of smaller retailers out of business including my favorite hardware store, they lasted less than 2 years after HD moved in.

But, and I will kick myself later for saying this, there was one lady in the plumbing section that knew her stuff and made my heart skip a beat every time she waited on me :o. OK that is my story, what is yours?

Good post. It's important for us to remember that HD is the way it is because of consumer demand for low prices.

There's a small regional hardware store in my area with a home depot really close by. I though for sure HD would put them out of business in short order, but I'm glad to say I was wrong. The parking lot at this place is packed. They seem to hire a lot of former tradespeople who know their stuff. Their prices are noticeably higher, but apparently people are willing to make that trade off. Pretty cool to see in your this day and age.

[mike mcilroy]

But, and I will kick myself later for saying this, there was one lady in the plumbing section that knew her stuff and made my heart skip a beat every time she waited on me :o. OK that is my story, what is yours?

You mean you got "flushed" when you saw her!

[Mike Henderson]

The people in the local HD that I go to are nice people. I generally don't ask for advice but they usually can tell me where something is located - and they're just nice, polite, helpful people.

Mike

[Dan Hintz]

You mean you got "flushed" when you saw her!

I wondered how long it would take before this thread went down the drain...

[Jason Roehl]

I wondered how long it would take before this thread went down the drain...

Puns are the #2 reason for that to happen.

[Richard Alty]

.... He asks how many amps does the saw use and I tell him its wired for 220v and the motor pulls 10 amps. He says, I'm no electrician but you can't do that. You'll trip the breaker or worse, burn up your motor. I look at him puzzled and then I said, with your way of thinking, if I have a 20 amp receptacle in my house and I plug a lamp into it rated for less than 1 amp, I'll trip the breaker or burn up my lamp?

The risk of burning up the motor (or lamp, in your example) is very real. The wiring in the device is designed to handle a certain draw. If the motor seizes, or shorts, it can try to draw well over that. When the current reaches the amount of the breaker, the breaker should trip. In your situation, though, the breaker will not trip until the current draw reaches three times the amount that the saw is designed for. That could potentially be enough to melt some insulation and start a fire.

Short out a 1A table lamp and allow it to draw 20A before the breaker trips and it will almost certainly melt the wiring and very likely start a fire.


The saw motor only uses 10 amps. I have 30 amps available but I won't be using 30 amps of power. He says, well here's the right plug but just be careful. You don't want to start a fire. I took the plug and left. When I got home, I wired it up and the saw works fine.

Actually, you won't be drawing 30A "as long as everything is working right" is more accurate. Of course, if everything always worked right, we wouldn't need breakers at all, would we?

Over-fusing is a very common cause of house fires. In your situation, the wiring in the wall is designed for a 30A circuit, and 10-3 wire is adequate for it as well, so the weak point is the motor itself. My advice - if you wanted to be strictly and technically correct in your installation - would be to open your panel, remove the 30A breakers for the 240V receptacle, and replace with 15A.

Richard

[Mike Henderson]

In my opinion, if you want to fuse a tool that plugs into an outlet you should do that between the plug and the tool. You should not try to fuse a plug in tool with the panel breaker.

For hard wired tools it's appropriate to use the panel breaker.

Mike

[Richard Alty]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with connecting a 240V tool that draws 10A to a circuit that can supply 30A.

As I mentioned above, that is exactly how most of the world does things.

Sure, and in home shops especially we often do things that are, strictly speaking, "not kosher".

I have several of my static machines plugged in through an 'octopus'. If I turned them all on at once - and that is "supposed" to be the situation that the wiring is meant to be able to handle - the draw would be WAY over what the circuit, and breaker, is rated at. In the real world, however, I work on my own. I'm never going to run table saw, planer, jointer and band saw all at once.

I think the point though is that the OP was condemning the HD worker as "confused" when his concern was totally valid. Running a 10A machine on a 30A circuit DOES increase the risk of burning out the motor if something goes wrong, because the breaker WILL allow it to draw too much current before popping. Had the OP's response been "The risk is minimal because it's a bandsaw and I'm always going to be standing in front of it when it's on, and if it seizes I can turn it off", I'd have no issue with that. Instead the guys valid concern just "made him shake his head".

The most dangerous person isn't the one who doesn't know what he's doing. It's the one who thinks that he does.

Richard

[Richard Alty]

Anybody remember the scene from "Airplane!" where the characters were walking through the terminal fighting off solicitations from the Moonies, Hare Krishnas, Scientologists, Mormons, and every other sect/cult under the sun?

That's exactly how I feel in my local HD and Lowes as hordes of Orange or Blue polo shirts surround me to have me get a new kitchen designed, solar panels installed on my roof, or apply for an HD/Lowes Visa card. The guys in the aprons, however, who might be able to tell me what aisle nylon tubing is on, are conspicuous by their absence.

Richard

[Garth Almgren]

Mike,

I have found a sure fire way to get someone to help you at the orange box store. Find one of those big rolling ladder things and start walking up the stairs being sure to make a little noise. The employees have apparently been trained to stop customers from being on them ( most likely for liability reasons) and they will be at your side in seconds telling you that you cannot climb them. I acknowledge their presence and then ask them to help me find the item I am looking for!
Another good way to get some help quickly is to wander slowly around the power tool aisle with your hands in your hoodie pocket and looking over your shoulder frequently. This is more effective the younger you look. :D

[Kent A Bathurst]

That's exactly how I feel in my local HD and Lowes as hordes of Orange or Blue polo shirts surround me to have me get a new kitchen designed, solar panels installed on my roof, or apply for an HD/Lowes Visa card.

Very unlikely those are store employees. They most likely are employed by the 3d party service providers contracted to do the installs, etc. The voice of experience...I was never one of those guy, but I headed up a program like that as a supplier to HD, and we had our sales guys in there on a regularly scheduled basis.

So - they know doodly-squat about what/where in the store. But they are more than happy to sign you up for a free quote on replacement windows, cabinet refacing, etc.

[Chris Padilla]

I don't head into any of the borgs with questions about how to do something. I come to SMC for that...plenty of know-it-alls here! :D

The borg workers are usually very good for one thing only: "Where can I find the ....?"

[Gary Yoder]

Finally, some good advice.

+1


In my opinion, if you want to fuse a tool that plugs into an outlet you should do that between the plug and the tool. You should not try to fuse a plug in tool with the panel breaker.

For hard wired tools it's appropriate to use the panel breaker.

Mike

[Julie Moriarty]

I was walking through HD last week, heading for the lumber department. On the way there, 3 guys said hello and 2 asked if I needed any help finding something. I said no and kept walking. Once in the lumber department, I grabbed a cart and rolled it over to the rack where the 2x12x10' boards are. As I picked through them, one HD worker walked by, looked at me and kept walking. After I found a decent board, I picked up one end to slide on the cart. I looked up as another HD worker had just passed by.

I guess you could call that a "Home Depot Workers make me shake my head" experience. :rolleyes:

As for the tool fusing debate, most stationery tools have overcurrent protection on their motors. That will most likely trip before any fire hazard is created. Smaller tools, like drill motors, will probably burn out the motor before it catches fire. Even if the tool caught fire, the cure is to immediately unplug it and douse the fire. You're there, using the tool. It's not going to catch fire if you're not using it.

As far as the wiring within your home, if the breakers are sized properly, to protect the wire they serve, there should be no issue with fires unless the breaker fails. If you are concerned that will happen, remove your breaker panel and install a fuse panel. Fuses are more reliable than breakers. But changing out the breakers to a reduced size to match the connected load is unnecessary and a waste of time and money. This fusing debate has gone orbital.

[Deb Clarkson]

Daughter in law's brother and his grandpa were checking out at Lowes. Her brother asks for the military discount since he's in National Guard. Gal at checkout asks Grandpa Ralph if he's in military as well. Grandpa Ralph responds "No, I'm retired"

Gal at checkout says "You're retarded?"

Grandpa Ralph fires back "No, re--tired. If I was retarded I'd have your job"

[Allan Speers]

^ What Mike said.

A tool will require a minimum breaker, but it doesn't have a maximum rating, because the breaker rating is matched to the WIRING. The panel breaker's job is to keep the in-wall wiring from overheating, not your motor. Besides, any properly designed tool over 15a should have it's own thermal protection.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Grandpa Ralph fires back "No, re--tired. If I was retarded I'd have your job"

Almost spit out my coffee. Hahaha

[Mark Blatter]

My experiences at any of the Borgs are similar to most others, though I will say that about 20% of the time I can get some solid advice from people that know what they are talking about, whether in plumbing, electrical, etc. About 50% of the time, I ask a question and instantly regret it as the person 'helping' doesn't have a clue but wants to help. I find myself trying to run away as quickly as I can. Often in those instances, I find that I know a great deal more than they do, which is frankly a scary thought.

When I want something a bit more specialized, say screws, connectors, mostly hardware, I go to my local Ace Hardware. They stock 5-6 times the number of skus as compared to HD, Lowe's, etc.

As for electrical work, I have been told repeatedly, by a good friend who is an electrician, that any monkey can be taught to wire. Of course he tried to explain, for better than an hour, how to wire a two-way switch. He finally gave up and went to find a smarter monkey than me.

[Phil Thien]

I had occasion to be in a HD this afternoon, in the plumbing isles again (ugh, why do I keep losing the plumbing lottery).

So I'm looking for a replacement hose for a kitchen sink sprayer and the guy in the HD employee is giving me soooo much crap. They have two different hoses and another hose for faucet wands and I'm looking at all of them, comparing the parts. I don't have clearance for a quick disconnect and I'm just looking and learning and he keeps telling me crap like "you're going to buy the wrong thing, you don't need to look at the faucet wand hose kits, yada yada yada."

I remained pleasant but felt like unloading on the guy.

[Tony Cognato]

I was walking through HD last week, heading for the lumber department. On the way there, 3 guys said hello and 2 asked if I needed any help finding something. I said no and kept walking. Once in the lumber department, I grabbed a cart and rolled it over to the rack where the 2x12x10' boards are. As I picked through them, one HD worker walked by, looked at me and kept walking. After I found a decent board, I picked up one end to slide on the cart. I looked up as another HD worker had just passed by.

I guess you could call that a "Home Depot Workers make me shake my head" experience. :rolleyes:

As for the tool fusing debate, most stationery tools have overcurrent protection on their motors. That will most likely trip before any fire hazard is created. Smaller tools, like drill motors, will probably burn out the motor before it catches fire. Even if the tool caught fire, the cure is to immediately unplug it and douse the fire. You're there, using the tool. It's not going to catch fire if you're not using it.

As far as the wiring within your home, if the breakers are sized properly, to protect the wire they serve, there should be no issue with fires unless the breaker fails. If you are concerned that will happen, remove your breaker panel and install a fuse panel. Fuses are more reliable than breakers. But changing out the breakers to a reduced size to match the connected load is unnecessary and a waste of time and money. This fusing debate has gone orbital.

Julie nailed it on both counts. When I enter any Home Depot there is always three to six people within the first 50 feet who ask if I need help. When I get to my aisle and have a problem I need to activate the HD LoJack system to try and find ANYONE! Regarding the electrical she is right again. The circuit breaker/fuse is sized to protect the circuit wiring to a safe capacity, NOT any equipment. It is always a good idea to buy tools with motors that have thermal protection which cuts out the motor generally before any damage due to drawing more power than is safe. If this is not present then a magnetic starter with properly sized "heaters" will give the same protection. This could make the difference between a minor repair and a new/rebuilt motor. Actually there are motor rated switches which use the protective devices also if you can match your current draw of the motor to it.

[Ryan Mooney]

Grandpa Ralph fires back "No, re--tired. If I was retarded I'd have your job" :D nice!

There are two employees at our local HD that are pretty good.

The one electrical guy is a retired electrician who was more or less forcefully retired when the local aluminium plant shut down (I haven't seen him lately so maybe he got a better job hopefully). He'd tell you what you needed to know but you had to listen to a 5 minute talk about the unfairness of life, how working at HD sucks and the general lack of knowledge exhibited by the local populace first.

The one guy in plumbing is also pretty good. He'll ask what I'm doing, explain that they don't actually stock the proper parts and then ask why I'm not just buying my stuff at the local "has everything" shop (Reds Trading Post) - invariably this is because its on Sunday and Reds is closed and I need to get the toilet/sink/whatever working today at which point he'll sigh and go "yeah... you can cobble it together with this junk over here, but you really ought to go down to Reds on Monday and get the right parts" (which I usually do).

[Peter Aeschliman]

I used to work at Eagle Hardware (later gobbled up by Lowes) in college in the summer as a cashier. I absolutely dreaded walking through the store because I knew nothing about where things were in the store, let alone anything about plumbing, electrical, etc. I was a deer in the headlights when a customer stopped me. Usually they were already frustrated that they had trouble finding somebody in the first place, let alone a pimply-faced 19 year old who knew nothing. Then I'd have to look around for a coworker who knew what they were doing and steam would start blowing out of the customer's ears.

That job made me realize how important it was to study hard and get a professional job. It changed my life completely and drove me to ace my college courses. It also means that I give the people who work there the benefit of the doubt.

[Andy Fox]

I was in HD years ago and needed a few sheets of plywood rough cut. I walked around for about 10 minutes, but the few employees who could be found successfully escaped before I was within talking range. I finally went to the customer service desk and requested someone to run the panel saw. The woman there said that required special training, and only the lumber guy could do that, and then paged him. After about 20 minutes of more waiting, I fire up the "passcode protected" (most 4 digit passcodes shared by many people are one of 5 different combinations ;) ) panel saw and went on the final approach to make the initial cut. Suddenly, the woman from the customer service desk appeared out of nowhere and insisted that she had to do the cutting for me. I told her, "Thanks for offering, but I'm good. It's no problem really." But she still insisted, so I let her since it was her store and didn't want to be rude. She also made the cuts more precisely than most of the "lumber guys."