Planning on purchasing a Trotec Speedy 400. Experiences?

[Frank Sandqvist]

Hi!

I recently posted this at CNCZone, but I was adviced to ask the Creek. :)

We currently run a G.weike 1390 150W along with a tiny Laserpro Venus 12W. It's a good combo, one does what the other one doesn't.

But we are struggling with reliability problems. You can't always trust these machines (especially the G.weike)

So we are planning on purchasing a Speedy 400 with an 80w tube, along with the lamella table and aluminum grid table. And with the passthrough option.

If anyone here has a similar machine, we would love to hear what your thoughts are on the machine. Things to look out for etc.

Also have a few specific questions (guess we could also ask the retailer directly, but since they are not a direct Trotec subsidiary, they might not know a lot):

- Does it have a built in flow regulator for the air assist? If not, can you mount one before the laser, without it affecting the air-flushed optics, etc.? Is that on a separate input?
- Is there a relay controlled outlet for the exhaust fan?
- Can you store jobs on the machine? (I'm guessing not, since it doesn't have a display)
- How good is the Jobcontrol X software? How does it compare to the chinese Lasercut software? Not in terms of which one is better, but in how they work. (if anyone here has used both)
- Is the smartphone connectivity app standard? It wasn't listed as an option on the offer the retailer gave us.
- Not going to name the company or exact amounts, but we are being quoted around 40k EUR (ex VAT) for this machine, and that is the base machine without options. Does it sound right or are we being completely ripped off?
- The 'harsh enviroment kit', what is it exactly? Do you not get Inpack on the Y-axis without it?


Thanks in advance!


Best regards,
Frank Sandqvist
CNC-Design Finland Öb

[Frank Sandqvist]

Just for fun, here's a picture of the current setup (minus the laptop). The Trotec would be to the right of the table :)

310346

[Bob A Miller]

Frank

I am still relatively new to the buisness of Laser machines, but having a speedy 400 & a Gwieke 1290 I can speak a bit about them.

I have had the speedy 400-80W for about 10 months. Difference felt like night & day over the Gwieke. Very reliable, very well built. I have a Gwieke 1290 & have sold it twice, but the deal never closes...:)

The speedy steps down quite a bit more then a Gwieke will.. Fine control on say paper cutting etc. Engraving, well if you have seen a demo you will know what I mean.

The job control software is quite powerful but there are a lot of not well documented features. Certainly head & shoulders above Laser cut, much more usefull. The job control software has a built in material settings library, it allows for quick inverting of positive to negative, features are quite endless... Very usefull, just not everything is well documented. Laser cut works but every setup (particularly repeats) could be a one if experience. However just try remembering a setting on the Gwieke that you don't use often... The digging around for it can be time consuming...job control... All in the library.

The air assist dies have a flow control that is adjustable but hard to get to ( back of the cabinet under a panel). I believe if you buy the Trotec air cleaner the relay is pre wired, but I have heard you can get the schematic & wire your ow n system in.

I have seen the iPhone app but didn't recall it being that usefull. No idea on the harsh environment kit. Can't speak to the price over there as I imagine the taxes & duties could be very differnt for each part of the world.

Bottom line.. The Gwieke is useful & works ok for some things... But I sure don't regret buying the Trotec & can't see I would want to get rid of mine. Great machine, you would be happy with it.

Bob

[Jeffrey Dewing]

I have a Speedy 300, 80 watt, and love it. It is my first laser and I don't think I'll ever own anything else but a Trotec. It's a well made machine and because of the job control alone, I think its been worth every penny...

[Gene Howard]

Hi!
- Can you store jobs on the machine? (I'm guessing not, since it doesn't have a display)

- The 'harsh enviroment kit', what is it exactly? Do you not get Inpack on the Y-axis without it?


Hi Frank,

I'll answer these from the perspective of a Speedy 300:

- Trotec JobControl streams all jobs "live" (with a small buffer) to the laser. It is not possible to store the job on the laser itself.

- InPack is standard on the X-axis, though it's actually just the X belt itself that provides the protection to the linear bearings & rail. The hazardous environment kit adds canvas belts on the Y-axis that prevent debris from entering the side cabinets, they are absolutely essentials if you will be doing any dust producing engraving like rubber stamps.

[Frank Sandqvist]

Thank you all for the answers!


Frank

I am still relatively new to the buisness of Laser machines, but having a speedy 400 & a Gwieke 1290 I can speak a bit about them.

I have had the speedy 400-80W for about 10 months. Difference felt like night & day over the Gwieke. Very reliable, very well built. I have a Gwieke 1290 & have sold it twice, but the deal never closes...:)

The speedy steps down quite a bit more then a Gwieke will.. Fine control on say paper cutting etc. Engraving, well if you have seen a demo you will know what I mean.

The job control software is quite powerful but there are a lot of not well documented features. Certainly head & shoulders above Laser cut, much more usefull. The job control software has a built in material settings library, it allows for quick inverting of positive to negative, features are quite endless... Very usefull, just not everything is well documented. Laser cut works but every setup (particularly repeats) could be a one if experience. However just try remembering a setting on the Gwieke that you don't use often... The digging around for it can be time consuming...job control... All in the library.

The air assist dies have a flow control that is adjustable but hard to get to ( back of the cabinet under a panel). I believe if you buy the Trotec air cleaner the relay is pre wired, but I have heard you can get the schematic & wire your ow n system in.

I have seen the iPhone app but didn't recall it being that usefull. No idea on the harsh environment kit. Can't speak to the price over there as I imagine the taxes & duties could be very differnt for each part of the world.

Bottom line.. The Gwieke is useful & works ok for some things... But I sure don't regret buying the Trotec & can't see I would want to get rid of mine. Great machine, you would be happy with it.

Bob

Sounds great :)

The air assist flow control doesn't sound that great though. We've gotten quite fond of being able to control the air pressure on our G.Weike. We drilled a hole in the front panel and mounted a pressure regulator there. Not something you want to do with a laser that costs the same as a brand new 5-series though :)

So if we mount the pressure regulator before the laser, that would mean that we would also restrict all of the other air functions of the laser? Like the air-flushed optics.

Does it have a built in solenoid valve for the air-assist though? Or do we have to wire it up ourselves as you said?

Since we just bought a screw compressor we would really like to use it with our Trotec..


I have a Speedy 300, 80 watt, and love it. It is my first laser and I don't think I'll ever own anything else but a Trotec. It's a well made machine and because of the job control alone, I think its been worth every penny...

Awesome! :D


Hi Frank,

I'll answer these from the perspective of a Speedy 300:

- Trotec JobControl streams all jobs "live" (with a small buffer) to the laser. It is not possible to store the job on the laser itself.

- InPack is standard on the X-axis, though it's actually just the X belt itself that provides the protection to the linear bearings & rail. The hazardous environment kit adds canvas belts on the Y-axis that prevent debris from entering the side cabinets, they are absolutely essentials if you will be doing any dust producing engraving like rubber stamps.

Oh okay. Well, that's fine. I just hope it wont start stuttering when we working with the other lasers simultaneously, since they will all be controlled from the same PC.

We should probably get the hazardous enviroment kit, then. I know nothing worse than having to wipe the laser gunk off the G.Weike's linear rails. That stuff is super nasty!

[Scott Shepherd]

The air assist flow control doesn't sound that great though. We've gotten quite fond of being able to control the air pressure on our G.Weike. We drilled a hole in the front panel and mounted a pressure regulator there. Not something you want to do with a laser that costs the same as a brand new 5-series though :)

So if we mount the pressure regulator before the laser, that would mean that we would also restrict all of the other air functions of the laser? Like the air-flushed optics.

There are no air curtains on the optics on that machine. The air works very well and I don't think you'll find you need to change it like you might be doing now. I put a regulator on mine and controlled it outside the machine and found no applications where it made any difference. I removed it all and put it back the way it was from the factory and i've never once opened the cabinet to change the pressure, so I'd try it before you go adding stuff to it.



Does it have a built in solenoid valve for the air-assist though? Or do we have to wire it up ourselves as you said?

Yes, it's all automatically controlled.


Oh okay. Well, that's fine. I just hope it wont start stuttering when we working with the other lasers simultaneously, since they will all be controlled from the same PC.

We print on a wide format printer, which takes a lot of computer power and it works at the same time the laser is, no hiccups from the laser or the printer.


We should probably get the hazardous enviroment kit, then. I know nothing worse than having to wipe the laser gunk off the G.Weike's linear rails. That stuff is super nasty!

I wasn't aware that you could even get a 300 or 400 without it. I thought it was standard on those models and optional on the Rayjet's, but I could be wrong.

Also, I do use the App quite a bit. I think I must be one of the only people who use it, but I do use it. It's not very powerful, and needs some features added to it, but it can be quite helpful. I don't think they are as excited about it as they were when they released it. It was full steam ahead when they released it and I don't think I've seen a single update to it since it was released, but maybe I'm wrong. I do know that no features have been added to it since it came out, that I'm aware of.

[Frank Sandqvist]

There are no air curtains on the optics on that machine. The air works very well and I don't think you'll find you need to change it like you might be doing now. I put a regulator on mine and controlled it outside the machine and found no applications where it made any difference. I removed it all and put it back the way it was from the factory and i've never once opened the cabinet to change the pressure, so I'd try it before you go adding stuff to it.

Yes, it's all automatically controlled.

We print on a wide format printer, which takes a lot of computer power and it works at the same time the laser is, no hiccups from the laser or the printer.

I wasn't aware that you could even get a 300 or 400 without it. I thought it was standard on those models and optional on the Rayjet's, but I could be wrong.

Also, I do use the App quite a bit. I think I must be one of the only people who use it, but I do use it. It's not very powerful, and needs some features added to it, but it can be quite helpful. I don't think they are as excited about it as they were when they released it. It was full steam ahead when they released it and I don't think I've seen a single update to it since it was released, but maybe I'm wrong. I do know that no features have been added to it since it came out, that I'm aware of.

Oh, I must have been mistaken. Now that I look it up it seems only the 500 and 1500 have it. Trotec really do follow the german car manufacturers example of different tiers of equipment :)

Sounds great about the air-assist. Guess we will try it out and see how it works for us. We just love being able to blast really high amounts of air when cutting wood for example. Seems to reduce the burnt edges quite a bit. But we still have the 'Weike for that dirty work. :)

Though, I think I read somewhere here that high air assist makes your lens dirty faster? Has anyone here heard about that? Sounds illogical to me, but I might be wrong.

The latest quote we got for the machine didn't have the 'hazmat' option. So it might be standard now. Will have to ask our distributor.

Looking forward to testing the app. Sounds like it could be useful, though the lack of updates is a shame.

Thanks for the answer!


Now I have another question:

Does the TROCAM software come included? It wasn't mentioned anywhere on the quote we got. I'll have to ask, but maybe someone here can tell me.

It seems like useful software. Being able to nest and create lead-ins and outs sounds great.

[Scott Shepherd]

Does the TROCAM software come included? It wasn't mentioned anywhere on the quote we got. I'll have to ask, but maybe someone here can tell me.

It seems like useful software. Being able to nest and create lead-ins and outs sounds great.

TROCAM was $5,000 when I asked about it last. It is not included. It was my understanding that Job Control X was slowly pulling various features from TROCAM, with the intent being that some of the more useful features from it would be in JCX one day. Whether it not that's true or what the time frame for those things is, I have no idea. A rep told me that several years ago and I haven't seen any activity in that direction, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. One thing I will say about the Austrian's, they are very slow and methodical about what they do. You don't get drivers released and then pulled because of unforeseen issues. They don't appear to like massive, big changes, but rather smaller, surgically done changes.

That's just my opinion. If I had to buy another laser tomorrow, it would most certainly be a Trotec Speedy.

[Frank Sandqvist]

TROCAM was $5,000 when I asked about it last. It is not included. It was my understanding that Job Control X was slowly pulling various features from TROCAM, with the intent being that some of the more useful features from it would be in JCX one day. Whether it not that's true or what the time frame for those things is, I have no idea. A rep told me that several years ago and I haven't seen any activity in that direction, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. One thing I will say about the Austrian's, they are very slow and methodical about what they do. You don't get drivers released and then pulled because of unforeseen issues. They don't appear to like massive, big changes, but rather smaller, surgically done changes.

That's just my opinion. If I had to buy another laser tomorrow, it would most certainly be a Trotec Speedy.

Oh, wow. That's pricy. I'm sure Job Control will suffice, though. :) Especially if they're bringing over features.

Thanks for all the help!

[Frank Sandqvist]

So we finally placed the order last week!

We ended up ordering:
- Speedy 400, 80w laser tube
- Pass-through
- Black aluminum cutting table + Lamella cutting table
- Spare 2,0" lens
- Harsh environment kit

And this which is very interesting:

- Gas-kit incl. air filter unit for external compressed air, necessary option for cutting

All the documents I've read about the SP400 haven't had this option listed. But then in the last minute before we ordered the salesman asked if we wanted it. Apparently it is this:
http://www.troteclaser.com/en-US/Laser-Machines/Accessories/Options/Pages/Gas-Kit.aspx

Even on Trotec's own page it says it's only for the Sp500 and Sp1500. But then I found this guy talking about how he got it for his Sp400:
http://blog.cncking.com/trotec-laser-speedy-400-flexx-review/

We are very happy about this, since we can have adjustable air flow on the front panel, awesome!

Anyone here with the "Gas-kit"? Can't seem to find a picture of a Sp400 with it. Only Sp500.

[Keith Winter]

Just now noticed after replying this Thread is a couple months old, oh well this reply might help someone else :D

Trotec's air compressor is more than adequate. I think you will understand when you get one, you won't have to do the hobbling together of parts anymore it, will all just work. I'd stick with what Trotec provides.

Trotec's are much more sealed than other lasers by default. Look at the inside photos of a universal, Epilog, or your chinese machines, you will see it's night and day difference. Everything is encased by default, there are not gaps like you're accustomed to. What will you be doing that will have so much dust that you need a special kit for? Our Trotec rep said the hazard kit is included in the 300 and 400. He said the weather stripping and encasing are all standard. He might have misunderstood what I was asking about with the hazard kit though, so double check on your end.

You will need a separate PC for the Trotec. The software that runs it is moderately PC intensive. Pony up for a separate PC since you're already buying a very expensive machine. No sense in crippling it right out of the gate, your productivity gains will be well worth it.


Thank you all for the answers!

Does it have a built in solenoid valve for the air-assist though? Or do we have to wire it up ourselves as you said?

Since we just bought a screw compressor we would really like to use it with our Trotec..



Awesome! :D



Oh okay. Well, that's fine. I just hope it wont start stuttering when we working with the other lasers simultaneously, since they will all be controlled from the same PC.

We should probably get the hazardous enviroment kit, then. I know nothing worse than having to wipe the laser gunk off the G.Weike's linear rails. That stuff is super nasty!

[Mike Null]

The gas option appeared on my early JC7 software even though I didn't have the option. Like many of the others, I've owned ULS and used Epilog extensively and if I buy a new machine it will be a Trotec--for my needs a Speedy 300 80 watt. They just don't make a better machine.

[Frank Sandqvist]

Just now noticed after replying this Thread is a couple months old, oh well this reply might help someone else :D

Trotec's air compressor is more than adequate. I think you will understand when you get one, you won't have to do the hobbling together of parts anymore it, will all just work. I'd stick with what Trotec provides.

Trotec's are much more sealed than other lasers by default. Look at the inside photos of a universal, Epilog, or your chinese machines, you will see it's night and day difference. Everything is encased by default, there are not gaps like you're accustomed to. What will you be doing that will have so much dust that you need a special kit for? Our Trotec rep said the hazard kit is included in the 300 and 400. He said the weather stripping and encasing are all standard. He might have misunderstood what I was asking about with the hazard kit though, so double check on your end.

You will need a separate PC for the Trotec. The software that runs it is moderately PC intensive. Pony up for a separate PC since you're already buying a very expensive machine. No sense in crippling it right out of the gate, your productivity gains will be well worth it.

Thanks for the additional info! Will have to see if our PC can handle it, if it starts to stutter or something we'll get another dedicated one ASAP.



The gas option appeared on my early JC7 software even though I didn't have the option. Like many of the others, I've owned ULS and used Epilog extensively and if I buy a new machine it will be a Trotec--for my needs a Speedy 300 80 watt. They just don't make a better machine.

It'll be interesting to see how the Gas kit is intergrated into the machine. Can't find anything about it online.

---

And the salesman we spoke to went on a vacation so he won't be able to help for a while.

We were going to ask him about the Jobcontrol vision system. But perhaps someone here can help. We didn't order it, but we might need it sometime in the future.

Is it easy to install and remove? Does it affect machine speed when installed?

[Jiten Patel]

You won't need a separate pc. We use Job control on the same machine as Adobe Creative suite. It is easier to print from and control everything on one machine. JCX is not a resource hungry program (can get a little laggy with loads of applications and plates open). We run Illustrator with files that are 500mb+ in size quite often with no issues at all. Only once have I had a full crash which halted a job (in over 2 years running the machine 7 days a week, 10-18 hours a day).

With regards to the vision, we are looking to get that too, but don't know too much about their own version. If you get any good info, please let me know.

[Keith Winter]

I do not believe you can run it without job control but I may he wrong.

Job control will not stutter, you pc will just be slower while the laser is running. If that doesn't bother you then you'll be fine. We try to keep two lasers running 80-90‰ of the day so the extra speed on the pc is important to us.