Wrong power supply?

[daniel delgado]

So this is my first post so hoping I do it right. Basically I have a 100w hurricane laser that blew a laser tube and power supply. since they are out of business I had to find parts myself so I ordered a 100w power supply off of lightobject. after finding that it arcs I have gone thru as much as I can do without help. it appears to me to power supply might be wrong. no stickers on the old one but was able to (once opened up) find a manufactures website and ascertain by dimension size that it appears to be a 60w power supply in a 100w laser that I have now replaced with a 100w power supply. it should be noted that the 110v wall power splits into what appears to be 2 separate power supplys . is It possible that a 100w laser could only need a 60w power supply if it does have a power supply elsewhere? I ran the machine for years without issue (other than the normal alignment type issues). someone please help I am booked for conventions (aka work) in 2 weeks and have been running outta product.... thank you in advance. (ps attached pics to see if it helps)310067310068

[Dave Sheldrake]

Oldest trick in the book Dan when it comes to PSU's. Sell a 100 watt machine and simply force the supply to run higher than it should, a 100 supply costs considerably more trade price than a 60 so some companies have been known to shoehorn 60's in and turn the current right up to max on the pot. Sometimes it works, sometimes they just go bang. The Jupiter in the picture is an 80 watt supply and is 4 mA under the requirement for a 100 watt tube...in effect both supplies are wrong :(

Running a 100 from an 80 watt supply means running the supply over the top end of what it will stand (leading to reduced life) on a standard diameter tube and at the limit for a fatbody tube.

You need a supply that runs at 35KV trigger and 30mA run current for a standard diameter tube and at 24KV trigger and 28mA for a fatbody tube like a RECI or EFR.

cheers

Dave

[daniel delgado]

yeah but a 60w worked great but the Jupiter is causing arcing issues the potentiometer is the other power supply... im wondering if my machine was built for it better (the 60w)

[Dave Sheldrake]

Wheres it arcing from?

[Dan Hintz]

yeah but a 60w worked great but...

You see the irony in that statement, right? ;)

[daniel delgado]

I do see the irony Dan its not lost. its just puzzling. as for where is it arcing its hard to tell I think from the power wire on the tube but its sealed with the appropriate tape.... I know I touched the end cap and got a residual charge from it

[Dave Sheldrake]

The HT wire will hold a residual current for some time after the machine is switched off, arcing usually means the full lightning strike type stuff :)

[daniel delgado]

I hear popping don't see but hear crackling or popping

[Dave Sheldrake]

That's not good :( could be internal in the supply but more likely from a damaged HT lead (they tend to harden with age and crack)

Check the full length of the HT and see if you can find any blackening?

[Bill George]

Sounds like your arcing might have been the cause of the old PS and tube failing. Did you order both the new tube and PS from LightObject? Is the tube correct and PS wrong or are they both 80 watt, which might have been the "real" rating of the old tube and PS. You need to replace that HV lead, once its starts arcing there is no fixing... usually.

[daniel delgado]

Sounds like your arcing might have been the cause of the old PS and tube failing. Did you order both the new tube and PS from LightObject? Is the tube correct and PS wrong or are they both 80 watt, which might have been the "real" rating of the old tube and PS. You need to replace that HV lead, once its starts arcing there is no fixing... usually.

So the power supply is from light objects and is a 100w supply and the tube was from laser-depot-usa.com which apparently I found out is hurricane lasers but it is a 100w RECI s4 tube (checking on authenticity currently to establish is it is the real deal the old power supply rating for the tube was indeed 60w and the new power supply is 80-100w light object power supply

[Dave Sheldrake]

which apparently I found out is hurricane lasers but

Here we go again!! good luck Dan ;)

[Bill George]

Did Marco at LightObject know the PSU was going on a 100 Watt RECI s4 tube? It might require a different PSU than what you ordered.

Price for your tube was $1250 plus shipping!!!! Wow.

Found this > https://www.sinjoe.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=89

and of course this > http://www.lightobject.com/High-Quality-Reci-100W-Z4-CO2-Sealed-Laser-Tube-10000hrs-P119.aspx

ERF tubes are cheaper.

[Dan Hintz]

the tube was from laser-depot-usa.com which apparently I found out is hurricane lasers

Those are some crazy high prices... the "service" contracts practically approach the price of a new machine, and $20 Chinese eBay optics for $100? BTW, Hurricane is no longer Hurricane, it's all Full Spectrum and all of the associated troubles brought with it.

[Dave Sheldrake]

So the power supply is from light objects and is a 100w supply

nop...it's an 80 watt Dan, the operating current for your tube is 28mA (30mA max) that PSU only pumps a max of 26mA when run at 100% so you will never achieve full power in the tube you have paid for. :(

[daniel delgado]

nop...it's an 80 watt Dan, the operating current for your tube is 28mA (30mA max) that PSU only pumps a max of 26mA when run at 100% so you will never achieve full power in the tube you have paid for. :(

so I found a flaw with the power wire and the arcing issue is no longer apparent. I will attempt to align and test tomorrow. the power supply said it was 80-100w so im hoping it does indeed work well if not I guess I will exchange it if they will take it back.

when on the phone with laser depot usa they stated the bought hurricane laser out and it is indeed the same billing address as the previous company so..... its food for thought

thank you guys for the prompt and helpful advice.... wish me luck

[Dave Sheldrake]

the power supply said it was 80-100w so im hoping it does indeed work well

It won't, at the power required to run a 100 watt tube that PSU is at the top limit + of what current it can provide.

Supplies tend to run

35 watt - 40 watt
40 watt - 60 watt
80 watt
100 watt - 130 watt
150 watt - 180 watt
180 watt - 220 watt

80's are quite unique as they require better stabilisation than a 60 and a higher current but nowhere near as much as a 100 or a 130. If you look inside an 80 you will usually find two capacitors compared to the 100+ supplies that have 3 to keep the current stable. The problem with overloading the 80's is they get HOT....VERY hot leading to early failure if they are drained too hard. It's one of the reasons 100 watt DC tubes aren't very popular as the supplies are more expensive and the benefits are tiny compared to a well stabilised 80 watt running at full tilt.(100 are also close to useless for fine engraving work where as a good 80 will still strike at quite low power levels)

The better DY and P series supplies from RECI are good (the P series are great) and the ZX series from EFR can run from 150 to 220 without problems but the price goes to $700+ for a decent PSU :(

Just be careful with that box, funky stuff happens when supplies get hot and the insulation starts to break down :(

cheers

Dave

[daniel delgado]

So I shoulda got the bigger power supply to ensure it runs better... Is the one on light objects any good?

[daniel delgado]

I am so lost and confused ....

[Bill George]

So I shoulda got the bigger power supply to ensure it runs better... Is the one on light objects any good?

I have dealt with LightObject for a long time and I have found them to be honest and fair. But you need to tell him (Marco) what tube you are using so you get the right PS to match. Like Dave said, you pay more for quality.

[Dave Sheldrake]

RECI Laser DY13
RECI Laser P14

Beijing EFR PS-N100

I use EFR PS supplies on all my DC tubes.

cheers

Dave

[Mike Lassiter]

I have dealt with LightObject for a long time and I have found them to be honest and fair. But you need to tell him (Marco) what tube you are using so you get the right PS to match. Like Dave said, you pay more for quality.
you pay more for poor quality. Look at your down time, frustration trying to figure out what is wrong and what you need to fix it combined with substandard parts the manufacturer installed. IMO selling something that is stated to be x watts of power and building it with conponents that are actually below that is deception. I initially bought 60 watts and the cartridge exceeded that in output. Great for me, but if you bought a 100 watt laser built with 60-80 watt rated parts you didn't get what you purchased.
It seems that you will have to bear the cost to correct this yourself. If you need (or think you might later) the full wattage you thought you bought, you need to install the right parts now to avoid this happening again later.
I do agree with Bill that quality is more expensive INITIALLY - but long term it is the greatest value.

[daniel delgado]

you pay more for poor quality. Look at your down time, frustration trying to figure out what is wrong and what you need to fix it combined with substandard parts the manufacturer installed. IMO selling something that is stated to be x watts of power and building it with conponents that are actually below that is deception. I initially bought 60 watts and the cartridge exceeded that in output. Great for me, but if you bought a 100 watt laser built with 60-80 watt rated parts you didn't get what you purchased.
It seems that you will have to bear the cost to correct this yourself. If you need (or think you might later) the full wattage you thought you bought, you need to install the right parts now to avoid this happening again later.
I do agree with Bill that quality is more expensive INITIALLY - but long term it is the greatest value.

that all makes perfect sense. right now though I have had another serious problem pop up . the laser is staying on sometimes when I give it momentary test power and also if I never hit the power button then plug it in then unplug it fires.... im fighting through all these complicated issues and cant seem to "win" on top of that im not thrilled with burning the hell outta my hand so any help you can give is awesome

[daniel delgado]

that all makes perfect sense. right now though I have had another serious problem pop up . the laser is staying on sometimes when I give it momentary test power and also if I never hit the power button then plug it in then unplug it fires.... im fighting through all these complicated issues and cant seem to "win" on top of that im not thrilled with burning the hell outta my hand so any help you can give is awesome

found ground on tube not so great but it still does it powering on and off. it should be noted my stop button switch is not operating properly (meaning you push down on it and it doesn't retain the cut off power function) but the magnetic switch operates and does indeed cut tube power if the lid is open

[Bill George]

found ground on tube not so great but it still does it powering on and off. it should be noted my stop button switch is not operating properly (meaning you push down on it and it doesn't retain the cut off power function) but the magnetic switch operates and does indeed cut tube power if the lid is open

Sounds like you have power and safety issues, neither one are safe to have when operating a high power laser machine. You need to find someone locally to help with the wiring and controls. You can't repair a HV lead once it has started to arc, it creates a carbon trail and it will arc again. The only repair is replacement.

[daniel delgado]

Sounds like you have power and safety issues, neither one are safe to have when operating a high power laser machine. You need to find someone locally to help with the wiring and controls. You can't repair a HV lead once it has started to arc, it creates a carbon trail and it will arc again. The only repair is replacement.

no one locally will work on it I live on an island. HV lead was replaced and is no longer an issue.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Any warranty still in effect Daniel?

[Bill George]

no one locally will work on it I live on an island. HV lead was replaced and is no longer an issue.

Dan, I guess we can help whenever we can. Glad you got the HV lead replaced. BTW those Emergency switches can be replaced.

[daniel delgado]

Any warranty still in effect Daniel?

no warranty in effect Dave. the guy at lightobjects thinks it might be a wiring issue from his power supply to my card causing it to get a false start signal
... anyone experienced this?

[daniel delgado]

no warranty in effect Dave. the guy at lightobjects thinks it might be a wiring issue from his power supply to my card causing it to get a false start signal
... anyone experienced this?

im going from a 60w JNMYDY model MYJG-60W to a Jupiter BH-80W. old wiring is 4 outta 6 wires on the plug if that helps

[daniel delgado]

Okay so I have resolution and a fully working laser. When the 60w PSu went it took out the laser tube and the controller. All very expensive and time consuming to go thru but thanks to you guys I have a better than brand new laser. also thanks to Rabbit lasers for the diag assistance and Light objects for the PSU diag.

[Ron Philman]

.. Hurricane is no longer Hurricane, it's all Full Spectrum and all of the associated troubles brought with it.

hurricanes site redirects to full spectrum. But hurricane's former owner is supposedly behind new company http://www.laser-depot-usa.com now.
You can pick up a machine from them in Vegas, where hurrican used to be.