Table saw - 21833

[Jimmy Anthony]

Decent deal? Still trying to decide between this one, the R4512 and the 36-725. My budget is less than $600.

http://www.searsoutlet.com/d/product_details.jsp?pid=32271&mode=buyUsedOnly&sid=IMx20140218xfb-ToolsToolStorage

[scott spencer]

The 21833 is nearly identical to the R4512, and as such, has experienced exactly the same alignment issues. Issues aside, the Delta has the better fence IMO.

[Jimmy Anthony]

My concern with Delta is finding parts since they bought by Chang Type Industrial out of Taiwan. I still don't see any listed for the 725. Are they available someplace I'm not checking?

[Brett Luna]

I have the Delta and it's been a very good saw considering the price point...I agree about the fence...but I probably wouldn't buy one again today. Availability of accessories (not just parts) has been a problem since day one. They seem to be supporting the new 5000-series contractor saws much better and it's only now, with their introduction, that dado and zero clearance throat plates are finally available that will also fit the 725. It wouldn't surprise me to see the 725 retired in favor of the new models. I would certainly consider one of the 5000-series models with the one-piece rail and cast wings but that'll be out of the price range of the saws listed.

[scott spencer]

You kind of have to pick your poison on a new saw in this price range. Here's sort of a wiseguy, but pertinent question....would you rather have a saw that may have some parts availability issues, but doesn't have a history of needing parts replacement, or one that has parts available and is more likely to need them? FWIW, it's not at all unusual for parts and accessories to sparse on a new tool...they tend to pop up as the tool gains popularity.

[Jimmy Anthony]

You kind of have to pick your poison on a new saw in this price range. Here's sort of a wiseguy, but pertinent question....would you rather have a saw that may have some parts availability issues, but doesn't have a history of needing parts replacement, or one that has parts available and is more likely to need them? FWIW, it's not at all unusual for parts and accessories to sparse on a new tool...they tend to pop up as the tool gains popularity.Good points

[Stew Hagerty]

I have heard some good things about that particular Saw. The fence is always an issue with lower priced saws.

I'm actually using a 1980's vintage Craftsman saw. But I have upgraded the fence to a Vega U50. I have been extremely happy with the Vega fence, especially the micro adjustment feature. Of course I upgraded the miter gauge as well. I have an Osborne EB-3 that I use for most cuts, but I tired of switching it back & forth when I want to use the right hand slot. so I bought an Incra V120 and added a sacrificial fence to it exclusively for use in the the right slot.

[Brett Luna]

Scott does make a good point. When I bought the Delta, it was new and a bit of an unknown. I liked the fence much better on the Delta and wanted to avoid the problems reported on the 21833/R4512.

One other note on the Delta: as you may know, the dust collection port fits standard 2½-inch shop vac hoses. I have a small DC with a 4-inch hose that I hook up using an adapter. Well, the saw's internal dust shroud isn't the sturdiest of contrivances and the extra weight of the adapter and larger hose shifted it so that it rubbed on the blade. It's a trivial but annoying matter of propping the hose up with something like a roller stand to take the pressure off the port.

[Jimmy Anthony]

Thanks Brett. If you had it all to do over given the accessories that are out now what would you do?

[Mort Stevens]

Decent deal? Still trying to decide between this one, the R4512 and the 36-725. My budget is less than $600.

That Delta is about the ugliest table saw I've ever seen! :0, and the Craftsmans is no beauty either! But, I have to wonder..... when you consider that every piece of wood you use eventually gets cuts on the table saw one way or another, why don't you want to spend more? Is it a size/space concern? If you double what your willing to spend some very nice hybreds, that aren't much larger than those portables and sill run off of 120v power enter the picture.

[Brett Luna]

I'd have to back up and rethink my choices, considering the boat I'm in here in Alaska. In-store options are very limited. For instance, Lowe's stocks the 725 but not the 5000-series saws. Mail/online shipping is brutal on large power tools, if it's offered at all. Craig's List is also quite sparse on quality used equipment. I guess I would have spent much more to get the SawStop contractor saw because a local industrial supply store carries it. I like the fence on it much less than the Delta, though. I'd rather have the PCS but that's far, far down the road for me.

[Jimmy Anthony]

That Delta is about the ugliest table saw I've ever seen! :0, and the Craftsmans is no beauty either! But, I have to wonder..... when you consider that every piece of wood you use eventually gets cuts on the table saw one way or another, why don't you want to spend more? Is it a size/space concern? If you double what your willing to spend some very nice hybreds, that aren't much larger than those portables and sill run off of 120v power enter the picture.
Simple answer. I don't have the money.

[Earl McLain]

I've had a 21833 for a few years now. Knew the history of blade alignment issues going in and checked that as soon as could (before complete assembly). Dreaded the potential of a 40 mile drive back--but it was fine. Compared closely to the Ridgid 4512 before buying and had it been equal money--would have done the Craftsman for the 15 amp vs 13 amp motor and the dado insert being included instead of $30 or so more. Fence was okay, would have been fairly servicable for a long time but i was able to scrape together a deal on an Incra LS (no comparison, in my opinion). When i set the fence to 2" rip, i get a 2" wide board. I normally keep my blades clean, and when they are 6/4 cuts easily. But it doesn't take much pitch on the blade to make it struggle to a degree, but still functional. A 3 hp cabinet saw might help with that. Blade changes are easy, below table DC okay. Insert size is a little different than the 4512 so i make my own zero clearance inserts using a template i cut early on. The "not so good" stuff would include the paint for factory insert and wings. Two years and a lot of wood later and i'm still getting paint marks on my stock. Quick sanding with 220, which i would do anyway, and they are gone. Height adjustment handle has more lash than i think it should, though fine adjustment is functional. The miter gauge could be left out as far as i'm concerned, but i already had a Kreg that i was happy with.

The buying experience--one of the things that bugs me about Sears--when i bought mine new, the list price was $550 (now $650). Was "on sale" for something less online only. Found an online coupon for some % off, and another good for $20 or $30 off that could be combined. Went to a store to look at one (poorly assembled, though i went to 2 HD's that didn't have a 4512 assembled at all), my price would have been $599 (more than the "list price"). Went out to my car, plugged in my phone and bought one for $330 (plus tax) for free in-store pick up. Drove 100 yards to the Merchandise pick up where i would have had to pick up the in store purchase and they loaded it in my car. For the life of me i can't figure out the difference.

I'd rate my saw as a very good value for the way i bought it. Before buying an outlet version (even new in the box) where they don't take coupons/discounts, it may be wise to search for Sears Coupons, check for online $ off on new, etc. You may find that you have a shot at beating the Outlet price--depends on the day with them. I have done a fair amount of Sears Outlet buying (including my DW 735 floor model for under $300), and on Sears products i have been able to call the parts center for a few missing pieces at no charge. I've called the stores a few times to make certain that if i buy an outlet item online, i can get a refund if it's not acceptable--they say yes. (The DW 735 was 100 miles from home, but i was driving right past the store to get to a meeting--bought online and picked up 2 weeks later--it was fine but i didn't know that before actually going).

Anyway--long answer to your question, longer answer to what you didn't ask. Decent saw in my one experience in buying one.

earl

[Jimmy Anthony]

I've had a 21833 for a few years now. Knew the history of blade alignment issues going in and checked that as soon as could (before complete assembly). Dreaded the potential of a 40 mile drive back--but it was fine. Compared closely to the Ridgid 4512 before buying and had it been equal money--would have done the Craftsman for the 15 amp vs 13 amp motor and the dado insert being included instead of $30 or so more. Fence was okay, would have been fairly servicable for a long time but i was able to scrape together a deal on an Incra LS (no comparison, in my opinion). When i set the fence to 2" rip, i get a 2" wide board. I normally keep my blades clean, and when they are 6/4 cuts easily. But it doesn't take much pitch on the blade to make it struggle to a degree, but still functional. A 3 hp cabinet saw might help with that. Blade changes are easy, below table DC okay. Insert size is a little different than the 4512 so i make my own zero clearance inserts using a template i cut early on. The "not so good" stuff would include the paint for factory insert and wings. Two years and a lot of wood later and i'm still getting paint marks on my stock. Quick sanding with 220, which i would do anyway, and they are gone. Height adjustment handle has more lash than i think it should, though fine adjustment is functional. The miter gauge could be left out as far as i'm concerned, but i already had a Kreg that i was happy with.

The buying experience--one of the things that bugs me about Sears--when i bought mine new, the list price was $550 (now $650). Was "on sale" for something less online only. Found an online coupon for some % off, and another good for $20 or $30 off that could be combined. Went to a store to look at one (poorly assembled, though i went to 2 HD's that didn't have a 4512 assembled at all), my price would have been $599 (more than the "list price"). Went out to my car, plugged in my phone and bought one for $330 (plus tax) for free in-store pick up. Drove 100 yards to the Merchandise pick up where i would have had to pick up the in store purchase and they loaded it in my car. For the life of me i can't figure out the difference.

I'd rate my saw as a very good value for the way i bought it. Before buying an outlet version (even new in the box) where they don't take coupons/discounts, it may be wise to search for Sears Coupons, check for online $ off on new, etc. You may find that you have a shot at beating the Outlet price--depends on the day with them. I have done a fair amount of Sears Outlet buying (including my DW 735 floor model for under $300), and on Sears products i have been able to call the parts center for a few missing pieces at no charge. I've called the stores a few times to make certain that if i buy an outlet item online, i can get a refund if it's not acceptable--they say yes. (The DW 735 was 100 miles from home, but i was driving right past the store to get to a meeting--bought online and picked up 2 weeks later--it was fine but i didn't know that before actually going).

Anyway--long answer to your question, longer answer to what you didn't ask. Decent saw in my one experience in buying one.

earl
Great info thanks for all that

[Myk Rian]

Went out to my car, plugged in my phone and bought one for $330 (plus tax) for free in-store pick up. Drove 100 yards to the Merchandise pick up where i would have had to pick up the in store purchase and they loaded it in my car. For the life of me i can't figure out the difference.
A real head scratcher.

[Jim Dwight]

I you go for the R4512, you should google the "fix" for the alignment issue. There is supposedly a new casting in the latest saws (build after about November of last year) that doesn't have the issue. I forget where I saw it but I think you can find it with Google.

I use a Ryobi 3100 which is similar "underpowered". I draws 15A but the motor is a universal motor so it isn't as efficient. I have ripped over 3 inches in hardwood on several occasions. Thin kerf blades are NOT necessary but a clean blade is. Sharp is important too. For deep rips, a Freud ripping blade with flat topped teeth makes a big difference. It also requires a fairly slow rate of feed. With the right blade it will do this without apparent strain. With a dirty dull blade with ATB grind it will do it but complains a LOT.

[Earl McLain]

Jim--i had a BT3000 for over 15 years, it was one of the early 15 amp saws after they stepped up from the 13 amp. Wish i'd had the space to keep it--great cross-cutting saw. That motor was loud though!!
earl

[Jimmy Anthony]

Jim--i had a BT3000 for over 15 years, it was one of the early 15 amp saws after they stepped up from the 13 amp. Wish i'd had the space to keep it--great cross-cutting saw. That motor was loud though!!
earl
Thans for the info I appreciate it.