Weight of wooden garage door

[James Baker SD]

My garage door has shredded into dust the nylon gears inside the automatic opener. Think it is a given that the door is poorly balanced. Since I cannot afford to hire quality people and do not want the idiots who last worked on it to come again, I want to try to fix it myself. Door is the old style plywood on 2x4 frame, that pivots on hinges on either side. It is not a sectional door on tracks.

First task is to decide if the installed springs are strong enough. The current springs are P728, two springs on each side. Table with hardware says 2 springs are good for 90 to 150 pounds and 4 springs are good for 150 to 300 pounds. Table is not explicit if that is total springs or springs per each side. I am assuming total springs as 4 springs on each side would seem a bit much.

Door itself is 75 sq ft of 5/8" roughtex plywood on a framework of 26 board feet (3838 cubic inches) of 2x3 and 2x4s which I assume are Douglas Fir.
Taking an average weight of 5/8" plywood at 2 pounds/sq ft and 3 pounds per board foot of Douglas fir, I get (75 x 2) + (26 x 3) for about 230 pounds for the door. A little more given the decorative trim, paint, metal stiffening rods at the top and bottom.

Seems my springs are OK. Any experts out there to confirm or show me the error in my estimate? Thanks.

James

[Justin Ludwig]

If the opener has stripped it's gear, my first check would be to see if the springs have the proper tension. Springs are loaded by turning them. Springs have a linear line painted on them when unloaded. As the spring is turned and loaded, the line will created spirals, which are counted to determine load tension. That tension is based on make and model of your spring in relation to the weight of the door.

Garage doors aren't hard, but can be very dangerous. Those springs are loaded guns if you don't know what your doing. You'll need vice grips, a set of wrenches, and a turning bar(s).

Call a friend who's messed with them before. Watch 20 YoTube videos. Best advice - hire someone with experience. You're near the 2nd largest city in California, there has to be someone priced competitively that's not a dufus.

I ran into my shop door 10x12 with a forklift mast (driving backwards). Cost me $300 to reset the track, replace a roller, and buy a new spring. The new spring reminds me - if your springs are old, you can all but guarantee one will break. My repair man told me before he started to expect a spring to break. He was tightening the left side and the right spring broke. :mad: He called it.

[Wayne Lovell]

Just a guess but if it was mine I would think that if it was easy to lift it is probably enough, if it is heavy you probably need more. This guess is worth about 1/2 what you are paying for it.

[Jim Matthews]

Since the drive is toasted, this is an opportunity to check the door hinges without anything attached.

Photos would be helpful to those who will chime in.
I love problems like these.

My guess is that the service guys who came last time had never seen a door like yours before.
Sectional doors on tracks encompass most of the North American market.

*******

Does your door fold to the sides, or overhead when open?

[George Bokros]

Around here there is a company called Precision Garage Door. I had a spring break and did not want to mess with it, I had done it before but chose not to again. My doors have torsion springs, yours may have the ones that run parallel to the tracks. When the tech was here he told me that the other spring would likely break soon and it was wise to replace them both. He then offered their lifetime service that replaces everything but the door, the rails, hinges. It got me all new wheels, new drums and new cables. Don't remember the cost but it seemed like a good value and good protection.

I suggest you find someone local that is experienced. Precision Door has locations in California. http://www.precisiondoor.net/

[Pat Barry]

Just a guess but if it was mine I would think that if it was easy to lift it is probably enough, if it is heavy you probably need more. This guess is worth about 1/2 what you are paying for it.
I agree with this although this test might not give you the best indication of the spring balance left versus right and binding from the imbalance could be a huge factor. How long did the opener last before self destruction?

Found your possible spring specs here (http://www.aclickawayremotes.com/holmes/one-piece-spring-p728/index.html)

[James Baker SD]

It is an old door, original to the 1975 house, but identical to the door on the 1955 house in San Jose I grew up it.

Justin: No twist to these springs, they are simple coils that stretch as the door is closed, contract back when it opens.

Wayne & Pat: No is not easy to open. Takes my wife and me both to push it up, so clearly not balanced. I had a broken spring 2 or 3 years agos and company I called sent a young kid (still in high school?) to do the job. His only qualification was strength enough to stretch springs and he knew how to run a credit card charge. He did not even use matching holes on both sides, but the load on the springs is not symmetrical. Opener lasted 17 years for me, but was struggling for the last several years.

I am recently "retried" not by choice and money is tight so I cannot afford a new door installed with new hardware by a competent business. I have been studying manual for my type of door and have several pieces of hardware to swap into place once the springs are off.

My real question here is if I need new springs. These are relatively new. They load lifting capacity is available on the internet.

What I need is the weight of my door to see if the springs are OK. I would never get the door back on the hardware if I removed it to "weigh" it so I need to calculate its weight. This is what I need confirmation one. Is my estimate of 230 pounds reasonable? below are my calculations from the OP

Door itself is 75 sq ft of 5/8" roughtex plywood on a framework of 26 board feet (3838 cubic inches) of 2x3 and 2x4s which I assume are Douglas Fir.
Taking an average weight of 5/8" plywood at 2 pounds/sq ft and 3 pounds per board foot of Douglas fir, I get (75 x 2) + (26 x 3) for about 230 pounds for the door. A little more given the decorative trim, paint, metal stiffening rods at the top and bottom.

Thanks for the replies so far, but if somebody can confirm my estimated weight, I would appreciate it.
James

[Greg Portland]

My garage door has shredded into dust the nylon gears inside the automatic opener. Think it is a given that the door is poorly balanced. Having those gears strip out is very common and it's an easy DIY project to replace the internals. I agree that you should take the time to balance the door and replace the springs if they are old.

[Nike Nihiser]

I don't think he has the kind of door that uses the kind of spring you're talking about. He has the old style that stretch as the door is opened (I think).

[Kent A Bathurst]

It

Door itself is 75 sq ft of 5/8" roughtex plywood on a framework of 26 board feet (3838 cubic inches) of 2x3 and 2x4s which I assume are Douglas Fir.
Taking an average weight of 5/8" plywood at 2 pounds/sq ft and 3 pounds per board foot of Douglas fir, I get (75 x 2) + (26 x 3) for about 230 pounds for the door. A little more given the decorative trim, paint, metal stiffening rods at the top and bottom.


The 3#/BF for DF is way more than sufficient. It really is more like 1.8#/BF [using 33#/cu ft - that number is "look-up-able"].

[Larry Edgerton]

He has a tip up door I'm thinking, not a sectional. Springs are relatively cheap James, try the next size up. I have not worked on a tip up door in 30 years, but I do like them. I had a house with a pair of them and opening the door without an opener was easy, what are yours like without an opener? They should be easy if the springs are the right size.

With a regular sectional door you weigh the door without any springs and order, but not sure about a tip up. I often put new faces on garage doors to compliment the house and when done put a bathroom scale on each side of the door and let it down, ad the two together and call and order the correct springs. Not sure how that would work with a tip up?

Wish I could be of more help.

[Lee Schierer]

Leaving the springs and all hardware attached weigh your door. Here's how: If you have a bathroom scale, lift the door high enough to slide the scale under the center of the door and lower the door onto the scale. If it tops out the scale, then get a piece of 2 x 4 3-4 feet. Mark the center of the length of the 2 x 4. Place a brick on the ground out side so the end of your 4 x 4 rests on it. Place the center mark under the door and the other end on your bathroom scale. Read the weight on the scale and multiply by 2 for the real weight that is above what your springs are counter balancing. This will give you an idea of how much more spring you need.

[Tom M King]

At that age, I expect it has a lot of added weight from coats of paint or varnish. My Parents house has raised panel doors installed in 1974, and I've replaced the springs a couple of times. Weigh the door with no tension on the springs, and even Lowes has replacements for different weight doors.

[Jerome Stanek]

Can you stretch the springs a little more. You do this with the door up and blocked so there is no tension on the springs.

[Jim Matthews]

I'm thinking along the same lines.
I would guess that the last installers
didn't tension them properly, and there's
insufficient counter force to balance the load.

[Dan Hunkele]

Here is a link to Apex door hardware. There is a variety of springs. A call to them should get you in the right direction. These are for tip up doors.


http://www.apexhardware.com/springs.html

[Duane Meadows]

Also helps to lube the gears every couple of years. White lithium grease is good.

Running dry, those gears will fail in 17 years, period. If the door is not properly balanced, of course, that makes it worse.