Drill Press Education Needed

[Andrew Ulsher]

I'm having a hard time deciding which Drill Press to save for and from other post it appears to be a common problem.

What are the advantages of purchasing the higher end Delta 18-900L or Powermatic PM2800B versus a Porter Cable PCB660DP or Grizzly G0794?

All of these drill presses have lasers, and the cheaper end with the Porta Cable and Grizzly have a 4" throw versus 6".

What kind of projects would I need more than 4"? I don't turn currently but when I do I plan on getting a lathe.

What are the tolerances like with all 4 of these DP when full extended?

Any and all advice that can help limit a choice would be appreciated.

[Matt Day]

The easy answer is get the most spindle travel you can. You might not need it now, but it is nice to have when you do. Lasers shouldn't be a decision maker, especially since you can get one aftermarket I believe.

The ideal DP would be an older POwermatic variable speed I think, and that's what I have been looking for.

Oh, and it's PortER Cable.

[Andrew Ulsher]

Thanks for pointing out the spelling error.

What projects would the longer spindle travel be worthwhile? A few forum posts state that both the Delta and Powermatic have a decent amount of run out when fully extended at 6". Does this take away from the benefits of a longer spindle travel?

Unfortunately where I live, I can't seem to find decent used tools.

[glenn bradley]

I believe you are mentioning a range of machines with the intention of measuring price against each other. You are however, listing machines of different capabilities. The most obvious is swing. I struggled with a 14" swing DP for years and finally got a 17". I would take a 20" in a heartbeat. This capacity may be unimportant to someone else.

As to important capacities and their value to different people; after about 4", spindle travel is unimportant to me in practice. This is undoubtedly due to what I do and how I do it because longer quill travel gets a lot of press. Few of my bits are long enough to take advantage of a 6" quill travel.

The table versatility is important if forward and backward tilt are offered. If the table merely tilts side to side it ceases to become a decision point as I will add a woodworking friendly table anyway. Vertical quill slop is my main enemy in almost all of the current drill presses under $2500 that I have gotten my hands on. Even the PM2800B fails in this area despite its price. How can you drill equal depth holes when you can lower the quill partially and then get up to 1/16" of up and down play when you grab the spindle and lift?

Power may also be a consideration if you will be drilling larger holes (Forstner bits and such) or using the DP for metal work as well as woodworking. Speed range is also important to me; 250 RPM or slower at the low end and 2500 to 3000 RPM at the high end meets most of my needs.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Unfortunately where I live, I can't seem to find decent used tools.

Where is that?

[Cary Falk]

I think the Steel City is the best mid priced (~$700)machine out there. I had the 17" belt version. Now I think all they meak is the VS version. I only sold it because I came across a PM1200 VS. The PM2800A had a lot of problems. I am already hearing about problems with the B version. I wouldn't touch Delta with a 10 foot pole unless something drastically changes within the company for the better.

I like 6" quill travel so I don't have to move the table as much. I have yet to drill a 6" deep hole but rest assured if I didn't have the capacity, I would need it.

[Myk Rian]

The easy answer is get the most spindle travel you can.
No. The easy answer is, Get a quality machine that you can get repair parts for.
Powermatic.

[Bill Adamsen]

Continuous variable (typically Reeves drive) with low speed capability, low runout, good chuck, platen counterbalance or gear raise, 115/230 volt ... are all features to seek. I have an older Clausing 15" Variable Speed which I like very much - it is similar to the Powermatic of the same capacity ... though slightly less spindle travel. It weighs 300# which is about the limit I'd want for moving around the shop without equipment. A good used one might be purchased for $500+/-. Much more than that and I'd be considering the new 250# Powermatic 18" (2800B) which appears to be a fine machine. The lightest 20" Clausing floor standing models weigh in at 650# and up.

[David B Thornton]

No. The easy answer is, Get a quality machine that you can get repair parts for.
Powermatic.

I agree with this. I had purchased the Delta 18-900L and had the worst tool experience ever. I'll no longer buy a Delta product again. I just received my new Powermatic PM2800B a couple days ago, got it setup last night and the thing is great. Quiet, smooth and none of the problems I had with the Delta.

[ian maybury]

We've had at least two fairly comprehensive threads i've been involved in in recent months about buying drill presses Andrew.

Whatever about the US, it's even tougher over here to find a decent mid priced drill - certainly not without running the risk of getting landed with a very poor quality unit. Broadly speaking it tends to be a waste of time asking about spindle runout/tolerances, definitely on the cheaper end. (a) the distributor typically won't quote any (one German importer does, but only on certain drills), (b) the shop won't have a clue and will care less, and (c) the fits on most of these units vary so widely that they go from OK to abysmal.

My fairly typical cheap (maybe $400) Chinese 75mm spindle travel pedestal drill has a lot of slop in the quill, has some wobble in the chuck, vibrates badly when run at higher speeds due to this/badly machined pulleys/cheap belts/cheap motor, and chatters if it's sttempted to drill a hole in steel of much over about 8mm. It also sometimes chatters using stuff like large Forstners, especially if the hole is e.g. angled - badly enough to have the chuck drop out of the taper in the quill. Various plastic handles became brittle and broke over about eight years of ownership. Against that it's OK for non critical wood drilling jobs.

Some of the better/more expensive models in these ranges (which tend to gain weight and precision with an eye to engineering uses - but to retain short spindle travel and reach) are not too bad, but the best advice about seems to be to if at all possible inspect a machine closely and run it (it only takes a moment to get dial gauge on a test bar held in the chuck) before taking delivery. Buying off the shelf from a distance is definitely risky at any normal price point.

It won't necessarily add a lot for everybody, and it's a significant step up in cost - but i've just given up on drill presses, and given the inflated price of old iron here have (as several others on the forum) ordered an RF 31 class mill/drill: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?228295-BF-20-mill-drill-as-an-effective-woodshop-milling-drilling-solution They are not necessarily immune to the tolerance issues of drills, but do seem in general to be a lot tighter and smoother running - and have a decent work envelope and spindle travel. They also have the weight required for stability. Time will tell how it works out, but there's some definite advantages on paper….

[Kent A Bathurst]

Ian - completely off topic, but..............Nicely done in the 6 Nations contest. Nicely done, indeed. Any hope v the All Blacks later this year?

[ian maybury]

:) I wouldn't know Kent. I'm not a rugby buff (boarding school killed that off), but it came as something of a surprise as they were unexpectedly beaten by Wales the week before. We seem to be one of those team that plays out of its skin at times, and (especially if favoured) can really screw up at others. The standard has ramped up big time since the sport went professional...

[Dan Hintz]

I agree with this. I had purchased the Delta 18-900L and had the worst tool experience ever. I'll no longer buy a Delta product again. I just received my new Powermatic PM2800B a couple days ago, got it setup last night and the thing is great. Quiet, smooth and none of the problems I had with the Delta.

I purchased the same when they first hit the market and love it. I guess I got lucky.

That said, I wouldn't touch Delta with a 10' pole, either, due to their "recent" lack of parts inventory should something go wrong.

[Kent A Bathurst]

:) I wouldn't know Kent. I'm not a rugby buff (boarding school killed that off), but it came as something of a surprise as they were unexpectedly beaten by Wales the week before. We seem to be one of those team that plays out of its skin at times, and (especially if favoured) can really screw up at others. The standard has ramped up big time since the sport went professional...

Well, at any rate, I'm sure the odd pint of Guiness was hoisted after beating out the Bloody Brits, as my close friend from Dundalk refers to them. :D

[ian maybury]

It seems Kent the further we get from home the greener we get - but definitely on the Guinness. There's a substantial 2nd or 3rd generation Irish American population though that still thinks we're back in the 18th C. Dundalk might of course be a bit different in terms of outlook..

A general point on drill presses. They in a sense are the cinderella tool, aren't they? For just about everything else in woodworking there's every level of product available from bog basic to pearl encrusted, but for some reason drill woodworking presses these days just don't make it into quality territory. We'll pay a lot of money for e.g. a fancy panel saw, but not the marketeers seem to think a drill press...

[Bill Adamsen]

Hmmm ... interesting point. Could the tool that performs that function arguably be the CNC Router?

[Kent A Bathurst]

A general point on drill presses. They in a sense are the cinderella tool, aren't they? For just about everything else in woodworking there's every level of product available from bog basic to pearl encrusted, but for some reason drill woodworking presses these days just don't make it into quality territory. We'll pay a lot of money for e.g. a fancy panel saw, but not the marketeers seem to think a drill press...

I agree - good analysis.

Here in the Colonies, you gotta go back in time to the high-quality, big-arn stuff. In today's dollars, those machines new would be $2-$3K, I guess. I run a mid-80's PM150A-VS. The standard-grade Delta it replaced was not in the same ballpark - not even in the same solar system. It took a while to find a good, refurb one, and it took a 1,200 mile round trip drive to get it. And I paid close to top-dollar. But - all said and done, I've got less in mine than a new PM2800.

It really was, I guess, an entry-level tool for machine shops, but it is also a top-level for WW. It's big brother the 1200 is a honker, and really only for machine shops and nutso WW guys - like me - wish I had one. :p

I figger that the market for something new, at this quality and performance level, would have a market size too small for a company to make the investment on R&D and production.

There is a reasonable trade in the PM1150 and 1200 machines - that is why I asked the OP where he is located..thought I could offer him a few possible sources he was not aware of..............but he hasn't shown back up to his own party so far.

[ian maybury]

It seems unlikely that there isn't a market Kent - plenty are happy to pay for machines at the Hammer/Felder level for example.

It's got problematical over here - the traditional refrain of 'keep an eye out for a good used machine on the cheap' doesn't apply any more. Not unless you get very lucky.

We just don't have the industrial history for there to be enough old iron popping up in Ireland, and what does has typically been beaten to death and rusting in some farmer's hayshed for years.

In the UK where until recently there was a steady supply of good quality/lightly used old stuff like Fobco, Meddings and the like coming out of schools and colleges, but that supply seems largely to have dried up. The dealers are grabbing the little that does surface at auction (institutions are anyway often scared to sell to the public for fear of liability), and jacking prices to the moon. e.g. over $2,000 for a used Fobco 7/8. It's a bit the same for stuff like mill drills, it seems it was only a case of waiting a while to pick up a nice used Arboga 2508 mill drill (again from a college) for around £500 a few years ago, but e.g. the last that came up was missing key tooling, and they were looking for £1,250 and refusing any warranty whatsoever. Add in transport and it's heading for $2,000. That's before you risk finding you got a clunker, and are facing into $250 a pop for even basic OEM parts e.g. a gear from Sweden….

[Kent A Bathurst]

Ian -

I feel your pain.

I got nuttin' to help you, brudda. Zip. Zero. Nada.

What's the freight for a 600# crate from US to Ireland?

[ian maybury]

I can't remember the numbers, but I've had a pallet over before and it's not bad at all. Of the order of a few $100s. Tax is perhaps the bigger issue at 21%. At one point I thought seriously of bringing over one of the woodworking specific high end Delta, but took fright at the reports of poor quality and minimal spares back up. There's also the 50/60Hz issue. There's also a high end Jet variable speed, but there's been a few mixed reports about regarding reliability on that too. Both get some good reports too...

As above i've for good or ill just ordered an RF 31 type mill drill type machine in the UK. Presuming it's a good example it looks very promising. 500 x200mm positioning table, light milling capability, 130mm spindle travel, better than 1 thou runout, smooth running and rock solid for £1,150. (about $1,400) Judging by one I saw running last week they can be very smooth… The risk its hard to eliminate is that they come out of a number of different Chinese factories as well as the original in Taiwan - it's hard top know what's decent and what not. I've gone for one that gets good press, and has been around for years. It's about double the cost of a better quality but still consumer level drill press which isn't so bad, but wish me luck...

[Dan Hintz]

There's also the 50/60Hz issue.

Look for a high-horsepower version that uses a VFD... that should solve your 50/60 Hz issue.

[Chuck Nickerson]

They in a sense are the cinderella tool, aren't they? For just about everything else in woodworking there's every level of product available from bog basic to pearl encrusted, but for some reason drill woodworking presses these days just don't make it into quality territory. We'll pay a lot of money for e.g. a fancy panel saw, but not the marketeers seem to think a drill press...

I'm trying to find a radial arm drill press (need the reach) that runs slower than 550 rpm. It's a pretty dry search.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I'm trying to find a radial arm drill press (need the reach) that runs slower than 550 rpm. It's a pretty dry search.

Have you tried the used machinery sites? Industrial Recovery Services - auctions; machinetool dot com - lot of giant industrial stuff there, but some "normal ' stuff too.