Opportunity vs Need

[Bill Adamsen]

A firm for whom I do contract work, is realigning their shop and offered me an older (1987) shaper they no longer need, that has more capability than what I currently have, but, arguably don't really need. It's a give-away, but with an 850kg machine (1900#), logistics are challenging and stressful, not to mention the downtime. I already have one 1-1/4" 6hp tilting shaper (four inch free) that I'm really just learning to use. Do I need a 10hp (6 inch tilting) of this size and age? SAC doesn't appear to be in business, so issues (currently none) would be problematic. I can't find the factory manual, that alone is troubling. It does come with a 1hp four roller power feed and the factory fence (the Aigner shown is not included).

[Bill Space]

First thought. Do you have the power supply available to power this beast? Probably three phase.

More always seems better but if the need is not there a pass may be prudent, however much doing so hurts...

Bill

[Larry Edgerton]

Do you have a tilt spindle machine now? If not, dump the one you have and snatch that one up. That is a very nice shaper that you will not outgrow, will most likely run whatever size cutters that you may ever need, and has a tilt spindle, a huge plus in my estimation.

These big shapers are not prone to breakage, so I would not be too concerned about that. This one looks to have been taken care of and does not look to be loaded down with electronics, and has both hoods. Running big cutters in a heavy machine is nice, no scary vibrations, and cuts that are as smooth as a babies bottom.

I would be all over that!

Larry

[Larry Edgerton]

Is that an Aigner fence on there?

[jack forsberg]

6" under the nut is nice i guess the price is the only thing to think about in your case. looks like a clean machine with 2 fences

[Bill Adamsen]

It has just the one fence/hood, but that's complete
It does not have the sliding table which was an accessory on these machines from SAC
The Aigner fence shown would not be included
I have a 10hp (Kay MA2) RPC
My other shaper is 1-1/4" tilt spindle (manual) with some tooling, (combination machine)

Is not having the sliding table a deal breaker? That's my big reservation. Is that limitation crippling?

[Tom M King]

If it was closer, I'd be glad to save you the trouble of having to deal with it.:)

[Peter Quinn]

It's hard to predict where your business will take you and pointless to look back at deals you passed on in regret. It's nice to have multiple shapers, but they come at a cost in terms of space and logistics. The obsolet situation doesn't scare me so much, most of the things likely to need attention on a machine like that are basic like bearings or bolts. It's a risk you take with older machines though. I'm in Connecticut and could put that machine to work tomorrow if I could convince my boss to buy it, He has had an eye out for a second production shaper and we have no tilter presently. Point is if it really doesn't work for you shouldn't be hard to move. In the same position I'd certainly have the urge to find a home for it.

[Bill Adamsen]

Peter ... pm me your number if you want to discuss.

[Steve Jenkins]

A number of years ago I bought a powermattic shaper with a 4wheel power feeder. I kept the feeder and sold the shaper for the same price I paid thus free feeder.

[Mike Heidrick]

That is an amazing machine. Id run not walk for it!

[Steve Rozmiarek]

C'mon Bill, this is a stealth gloat, yes???

[Jeff Duncan]

I don't need it, but I'd be all over it if the price was right! I haven't used any SAC machines but I believe they're pretty well built. If you decide to pass on it maybe you'd share the details with us? As I said, I don't need it, but depending on how you define "give away, it might be too good to pass up:D

good luck,
JeffD

[Bill Adamsen]

Just a short follow up ... Peter Q. ended buying the SAC 125 for $400 and I took the power feeder. Moving the beast was not without event! Never is. I purchased new rollers from Western (came in today) and have yet to set everything up. Glad this worked out and that another local and active "Creeker" was able to benefit.

[David Kumm]

Sac Seuri made great stuff. The build is often more like the SCMI Class models rather than nova. You won't regret it. Older shapers were very well built, better than today for the same price range. The bearings are usually bigger and better but do take some maintenance. Good fence and usually a heavier frame motor than you will find on current machines. you did well. Dave

[mreza Salav]

Great deal for him. Wish something like that came up locally.

[Peter Quinn]

I can't thank you enough Bill for making this deal possible. I have been asking/begging/screaming for a second "real" shaper in the shop and to retire the asian imports which nobody in the shop ever wants to use for almost a year! I think they were pretty sick of hearing it form me.....and now thanks to you its happened! I should clarify I don't own the shaper, it was purchased by the business for which I work, I don't actually have the space or resources in my home shop to accommodate this kind of machine. But I will be one of its proud primary users, I'm just thrilled to have this addition to the shop. Its really massive! I think we paid $.20/pound...cheaper than bologna! The build of the quill assembly and tilting mechanism is quite impressive, all the mechanisms are real smooth, fence is in great shape. I hope to get it powered up soon, so much pressing work we haven't stopped to place it, which requires moving a few things around as its literally twice as large and more than 3X as heavy as the two machines it is replacing. Its a funny position to be in....I need the machine to expedite the work.....but there's too much work to stop and set up the machine! You know how some heavy machines you can get under a corner and sort of shimmy them a bit as needed? At basically 42X48 with a solid iron base....this one doesn't budge!

Mike and I had fun chatting with you in the shop Bill, I hope the feeder serves you well, I'll try to post a few pics or a vid once we get the SAC placed and running. I can't wait to push some wood over that table. Thanks again,


Peter.

[peter gagliardi]

I've owned an SAC with the slide. They are excellent! You will enjoy that. The ONLY reason I got rid of it, was after getting the Martin T26 , it just sat for about a year. So, I sold it off, and got an Oakley edge sander.

[Jeff Duncan]

Peter didn't buy that shaper…..he stole it!! You couldn't buy a spindle for that shaper for $400!!!

Anyway I know he'll have fun using that machine even though it may not technically be "his". It should provide years of reliable service….well, if the new owners are better at maintaining equipment than picking it. I've never understood larger millwork shops buying the cheapest equipment available to try and make money with?:o I have a buddy working at a shop the next town over and they have several of those cheap shapers as well. They're all pretty much falling apart. Worst part is they had an SCM T-130 in the basement just sitting there b/c nobody took the initiative to get her running:eek:

JeffD

[David Kumm]

It's always fun to tell who the machine guys are in these threads. We all jump on the same machines. Dave

[Larry Edgerton]

Peter didn't buy that shaper…..he stole it!! You couldn't buy a spindle for that shaper for $400!!!

. I've never understood larger millwork shops buying the cheapest equipment available to try and make money with?:o I have a buddy working at a shop the next town over and they have several of those cheap shapers as well. They're all pretty much falling apart. .
JeffD

Last year I was approached by a cabinet sales company that was trying to make their own cabinets. They had all "Bear" equipment and got all kinds of bent out of shape when I told them it was all junk and I was going to build in my shop. They just did not understand tools. It soon became apparent that we were never going to be on the same page. I can't afford much, but what I have is at least decent.

Glad you get to work with that Peter, but its too bad it did not find a way into your personal shop.

[Peter Quinn]

Last year I was approached by a cabinet sales company that was trying to make their own cabinets. They had all "Bear" equipment and got all kinds of bent out of shape when I told them it was all junk and I was going to build in my shop. They just did not understand tools. It soon became apparent that we were never going to be on the same page. I can't afford much, but what I have is at least decent.

Glad you get to work with that Peter, but its too bad it did not find a way into your personal shop.

thanks Larry. Don't feel too bad for me, I have plenty of shaping capacity in the home shop, and I probably spend more time at work presently than working at home, so if I want to use it it's got to be there anyway! I was pitching that big uni up north when this came up, no slider, but we already have that on a T-130. At least they get why the guys on the shop floor won't bother with the bear stuff. I showed them test pieces.....same cutter, same head, same boards, one set on the SCMI, one on the bear.....one gets a lite sanding and on to finish, the other leaves our finishers sanding for days, sometimes after the first coats are shot which really sucks. A new 7hp "industrial" bear costs $2500? A new t-130 starts around $12k? I think the t-130 is frankly a better value over any 10 year period. So this SAC has me doing cartwheels.

[Peter Quinn]

So, I finally started using what has affectionately become known in the shop as "big Bertha" today. Hit a little snafu initially, turns out the spindle is not 1 1/4" but actually the more rare 1 1/8" bore.....who knew! I realized this Monday when I dropped a cutter on it for the first time. Got some t bushings drop shipped quick, back in business. I ran a plow with a slot cutter this AM across a door bottom rail for weatherstripping, 5/8 X 1 1/8"......did it like butter, shaper didn't seem to know it was even working! Then set up to cope grill bars for same door, spun a 4" molding head with corrugated knives...I'm not used to having to put that many spacers on top of a 4" molding head to get the nut on! I'm really loving this big ole hunk of iron. Oh, made one more discovery! Bill and I noticed a little handle under the front of the table, couldn't figure out what it did....should have asked Larry! Turns out the hood mounds to the outer ring in the table and turns like a turret so you can work from the front of side, or as needed, probably could mount tenon carriage if one were available. That little handle locks the turret in position. Turns just like Larry's uni! Mystery solved!

[David Kumm]

My old Martin has the turret ring too and it does allow for a tenoning table. The Uni, Zefam, Fortis, badged machines took a lot of good from Martin ( or maybe the other way around? ). Dave