Close-Up and Personal Look at the NEW Lie-Nielsen Stainless Steel Honing Guide.

[Karl Fife]

I just returned from the Lie Nielsen Hand tool event in Chicago.
While I was there, I saw the much anticipated Lie Nielsen Stainless honing guide.
I took some pictures which I have shared below.
Some of this you've seen, other details perhaps not.

Noteworthy observations:

1. It appears that there are two different 'regular' jaws (pictured below). One has a deeper beveled cut. I'm guessing one of these may be optimized to receive bevel-edge chisels, the other set for thinner plane blades. Maybe. I think. On the other hand, looking them over, I can't think of anything the shallower one can do that the deeper one cant. Vise versa for that matter.

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2. All of the optional jaws I could find are shown here. They include left & right skew jaws, the two 'regular' jaws described above, the 'long jaws' for short blades of shoulder planes, spoke-shaves, plow planes etc., and finally the 'tall' jaws for mortise chisels. I have heard rumors about jaws to hold the round shank of the LN fishtail chisel, but I see nothing to that effect here. Come to think of it, that's why I bought Dave Jeske's Blue Spruce Fishtail Chisel. Fits nicely in a honing guide. Man, I love that Blue Spruce Fishtail chisel.

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3. The most anticipated feature of this jig (by me) is the long jaw. This will serve my shoulder plane blades and spoke-shave blades beautifully. EVENTUALLY it may even serve the needs of a LIE NIELSEN PLOW PLANE blade beautifully as well :-), hopefully someday. Currently I use a Veritas jig for shave blades, but I find it is slower to set up and is not as repeatable as other jigs in my personal experience. I have a Richard Kell jig I use for shoulder plane blades, but I suspect I'll use this new LN jig instead because I really don't like cleaning the grit from two large HDPE wheels when moving the kell jig from stone to stone.

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4. Finally, the Tall jaw. What's important here is that it's able to receive the tall Ray Iles 'pig sticker' mortise chisel, not just the shallower Lie Nielsen 'sash mortise chisels'. I was concerned that the tall jaw would not be deep enough. You can see that the chisel is projecting way beyond the point of exceeding the angle of the primary bevel. Beyond good enough. Currently I use the richard Kell jig for this purpose, but again, I suspect I'll use the LN jig instead because did I mention that I don't like cleaning the grit from the HDPE wheels when moving from stone to stone? Sorry, I meant to.

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5. Swapping jaws is fast and precise, but I suspect that some people will opt to buy multiple jigs (say 2), and spend less time switching jaws. Just a hunch.

Also, I happen to know exactly when when this will be released.
Would you like me to say?
OK.
It will be released...
When you pry it from my cold dead hand :-)
(released by my hand, that is)

I have no earthly idea when it will be available for sale by LN. The rep wouldn't say, even after enticing him with beer and women. Give that man a raise!
I think there was a saying "Loose lips; Tom flips!" Something like that. I can't quite remember how it goes.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Wow, thanks for the excellent pics. Great review. I am sorry to say I don't like that tiny wheel. If honing a narrow chisel it seems this tool would be difficult to keep from rocking side to side. It does look like it's going to be great for skew registration and for spokeshave blades.

Did they have the plow plane? Were they as tight-lipped about release dates on it? I hope they know my patience is just about gone.

[Hilton Ralphs]

It all looks a bit fiddly to me. This is 2015 and yet they still chose to use slotted head machine screws instead of something better like Hex or Torx or even Phillips. Nothing is worse than trying to line up the slot when your eyesight isn't what it used to be. Everyone has at least a few hex drivers.

I hate to think what the price will be of course.

[Jim Koepke]

I hate to think what the price will be of course.

The cost is my first question.

Hilton,
Your tag line might be one reason for the flat drive and why "Torx or even Phillips" may be out. People may have a set of allen wrenches, many don't. The problem is in many parts of the world people may have imperial sets or they have metric sets. Well most of the world has metric. Even some Phillips style screws and drivers are different.

A flat driver may be the most universal driver available.

jtk

[Hilton Ralphs]

Perhaps Jim but we're talking about a premium jig here and I seriously doubt anyone who buys the LN range of stuff doesn't have at least a Phillips driver.

Even so, how difficult is it to ship a hex driver? INCRA does that for their table saw and router table fences.

I believe most people just do what they did before and what was done before that and not actually sit back and think about what may be a better plan.

Still holding my breath on the price though.

[David Eisenhauer]

Agreed, When will slotted screws die away? It is well past time for this to occur.

David

[Daniel Rode]

It looks like a precision version of an eclipse guide. Same basis design but better engineered and manufactured. The thing I like about the eclipse style guides is the cost. I sharpen almost entirely by hand now, so the LN guide won't be on my birthday list in any case.

[david charlesworth]

I think it is time for roller wars!

Narrow wheels are good. They allow a straight edge to sit perfectly on the stone. (This is controlled by even finger pressure).

Narrow wheels allow for significant camber.

Wide rollers are a menace, they dictate to the tool. Square edges are only possible with perfect jig registration.

We already have screwdrivers for our planes so why create a need for more? (even if technically superior).
best wishes,
David Charlesworth

[Frederick Skelly]

I hate to think what the price will be of course.
Especially with all the optional jaws. But it's LN, so it's likely to be worth it.

Karl, thanks for posting this review. I think you'll see a lot of interest from those of us who don't free-hand it. (I have the Veritas Mk-Ii with every attachment they make. This LN jig seems to do a few things my trusty Mk-II doesn't do as well as I'd like.)

Fred

[Daniel Rode]

This is why the eclipse guide and all it's copies were so popular. Also, I'm not convinced slotted screws are inferior. I can find much fault with phillips and square drive heads as well. Can't work those with a butter knife, can you?

I think it is time for roller wars!

Narrow wheels are good. They allow a straight edge to sit perfectly on the stone. (This is controlled by even finger pressure).

Narrow wheels allow for significant camber.

Wide rollers are a menace, they dictate to the tool. Square edges are only possible with perfect jig registration.

We already have screwdrivers for our planes so why create a need for more? (even if technically superior).
best wishes,
David Charlesworth

[lowell holmes]

Uhh?

Explain the pig sticker chisel in the photos. LN doesn't have one on their web site.

[Derek Cohen]

The Eclipse is a great little guide. The decision of LN to build on its design is a good one. The LV is also an excellent guide, but not as easy to set up for a straight blade. The LV does have advantages over other jigs, such as a wide range of blades it will hone, and the ability to set specific angles. (I wonder if the LN will have an angle setter?). The weak area of the Eclipse is the narrow straight wheel for honing narrow blades (in the 1/8" range). I am interested if the LN will manage this area better. That would be my area of use.

The more options that are added in to a jig, the more compromises will end up being made. The beauty of the Eclipse is that it is simple and does just one thing, but does it well. I think that LN know this, and the reason for taking so much time in its development is that they realise that there is much to get right if they plan (as they do) to offer a range of blade options.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Brady]

I'm in the camp with David and Daniel. The slotted screws are fine and the narrow wheel allows the user to ease the corners or completely radius a plane's cutting edge.

I too got to handle the honing guide in Chicago and more importantly better understand why it has taken so bloody long to develop. This involved purchasing and installing a new CNC machine and developing jigs, etc., to make each of those jaws with capture screws fit into the base precisely. That done, all that needs to be done is make that happen repeatedly hundreds of times for a first production run. Is it just a fancy Eclipse copy? Yes....from across the room on a cloudy day. What it turns out to actually be is a way to repeatably put a precision edge on almost any Lie-Nielsen bench tool regardless of the blades 's thickness, using a simple projection measurement. An Eclipse guide can't do that because it registers on the bevel side of the cutting blade.

[ian maybury]

:) Maybe it's being informally shown to generate some feedback….

The prospect of a premium (with cost to match) honing guide isn't necessarily going to be music to all ears, but to my mind it's great to see somebody set out to supply one and cover the various sharpening bases. We pay out a lot for, and invest enormous amounts of time in precision edge tools and their sharpening, so why not build honing guides to the same standard?

Looks like they have focused on delivering an upgraded version of the guide many of their customers are used to - as used in the sharpening/honing approach (presumably originating with David C's writings?) these days made popular by their videos.

I'm not familar enough with the type to know, but will it cover all of the bases? Stuff like spokeshaves, scrapers and the like? Probably a big ask, but there's a variety of profiled edge tools about that seem to require ad hoc arrangements and a lot of time digging for shaped stones, testing methods and the like to get sharpened. A one stop sharpening shop offering the kit (stones as well as guides etc) to sharpen all the tools in at least the catalogue using optimised methods would be very nifty...

Hopefully this will make it possible for Lee Valley to follow. Purely a view based on personal experience - they have a really nice guide, but with some shortcomings requiring set-up by the user which seem to be mostly a result of budget casting and machining. Their bevel angle setting device (one or two very minor limitations apart) is dead useful, and it's a really comfortable guide to use - all they need to do is to sort out the lack of precision, make some changes to the tool holding arrangements/provide accessories to grip a few difficult tools better, and replace the existing camber (-ish) roller with a narrow and ideally convex one. I'd argue that there is a definite use for an accurately set up cylindrical roller for narrow chisels and the like.

[Mike Brady]

Lee Valley has something new in the sharpening-guide realm coming out, according to a post I read from Robin Lee, "elsewhere". He also referred to an eclipse variation that they ultimately abandoned. There was even a photo of the prototype. The reason he cited for giving up on it was centered around the cost of making it to the precision required.

[paul cottingham]

It looks like a good tool, but it had better be a whole new ball game for the price I'm sure LN will charge. I have no doubt it will be worth it, but I will need to think long and hard given the price point I'm sure it will arrive at.

That being said, it looks like it solves problems that the eclipse has, like short, fat blades, or skews.
Damnit. Looks like I'll be buying a new tool.

[ian maybury]

I'd picked up a rumour too Mike, but only that. One of difficulties in designing honing guides to deliver precision and repeatability must be that there are tools like say a Japanese chisel where many of the surfaces are not precisely aligned/dimensioned/parallel/flat as a result of hand forging and similar processes. For a tool like that there's probably not much option but to locate off the (flat) back as the Lee Valley clamp does, and as Derek it adds the option to skew. Which is perhaps what's missing from the Eclipse type guides.

The consequence then though is that in absence of mechanical sideways location in use the clamp then has to grip the tools really well - which as it stands it's bit marginal at....

[Kent A Bathurst]

A flat driver may be the most universal driver available.

Jim - time for a "yeahbut"..........

Yeah, but - the slotted heads on their planes are not std sizes. To get a tight, solid fit, you need the correct driver from LN.

Wonder if the guide will require one of those special sizes?

[Simon MacGowen]

I think it is time for roller wars!

Narrow wheels are good. They allow a straight edge to sit perfectly on the stone. (This is controlled by even finger pressure).

Narrow wheels allow for significant camber.

Wide rollers are a menace, they dictate to the tool. Square edges are only possible with perfect jig registration.

We already have screwdrivers for our planes so why create a need for more? (even if technically superior).
best wishes,
David Charlesworth

A narrow roller is a source of pain for those who aren't good at freehand sharpening. If someone is already good at freehand sharpening, this high-end jig is of less use in most, not all, sharpening situations. I learned and opted for freehand sharpening, exactly because I wasn't happy with the narrow roller of the Eclipse jig. This jig is designed for high-end users and from that perspective, the narrow roller feature is understandable.

It is taking so long for this new jig to be brought to the market suggests one thing: trying to meet all your sharpening needs with one jig is quite, if not completely, impossible.

The slotted screw is perfectly fine with me as the lever cap screws are also slotted anyway.

Simon

[Malcolm Schweizer]

All good points being discussed here. As for the slotted screws, there are specific torque ratings for different screw sizes and heads. I suspect that plays a part in the decision to use one over the other. As for Phillips screws, they are designed to torque out at a specific torque range. I would prefer a (properly made) slotted screw on a tool where I wanted to be able to put a bit (small bit) more torque. I am sure they will design it to fit their lovely screwdriver set.

[Jim Koepke]

Agreed, When will slotted screws die away? It is well past time for this to occur.

David

As long as people buy them, they will still make them. Some prefer slotted screws.

Maybe if they do go obsolete all of my old screw drivers will be worth something.

jtk

[Brian Holcombe]

I prefer slotted screws. I can't stand phillips; it's bad at everything.

This looks pretty solid, I'm fine with the $15 job at the moment, but I may pickup one of these once they finally arrive.

I'm loosing patience for the plow plane, by the time it actually arrives it's likely I'll already own a center wheel plow.

[Bruce Page]

A lot of machining went into that honing guide and SS isn't the easiest material to machine. Expect it to be expensive.

[Tom Vanzant]

Actually, the Elipse-style guide does​ register on the flat back. The bevels in the holding notches force the flat back into buttresses (supposedly) in line and parallel to the roller. In the more cheaply-made copies, that's not always the case, so the cutting edge is not square. I have seen some gauges where the roller is the only precision-made part.

[Mike Brady]

Tom, your comment is correct on the lower v-notches of the guide, meant for chisels, but the main area on top for plane blades registers the bevel side. On the LN guide the blades, regardless of type all register in the jig from the non-bevelled side of the blade. An Eclipse jig may or may not hold your chisels. Your comment as regards chisels is correct.

[Karl Fife]

Narrow wheels are good. They allow a straight edge to sit perfectly on the stone. (This is controlled by even finger pressure).

Narrow wheels allow for significant camber.

Wide rollers are a menace, they dictate to the tool. Square edges are only possible with perfect jig registration.

We already have screwdrivers for our planes so why create a need for more? (even if technically superior).
best wishes,
David Charlesworth

I must agree with Mr. Charlesworth on both counts.

In my opinion, the incremental/theoretical benefit of a PH2 or PosiDriv, Torx T-n etc is outweighed by the convenience of using the straight blade screwdriver you just used to disassemble your plane, shave, etc..

Note that in THIS particular application, screwdriver alignment is a non-issue. The LN jig is designed such that the screwdriver blade can not slide off-axis due to the fact that it is completely captive within the countersink/recess in the jaws. This design element is visible in the pictures.

In any case, anyone bothered by it can swap out the captive jaw screws with screws of choice (Fastenal, McMaster etc.). I think those kinds of modifications can be very rewarding. If I were re-working this jig, I'd attempt to use a thumbscrew for a tool-free setup.

With regard to the debate about narrow/wide rollers; even with cambering issues put to the side for a moment, the Kell guide/jig is a good illustration issues that arise with 'wide' rollers. The Kell guide has perhaps widest roller configuration available. It's a very clever guide in many ways, but when a blade is clamped into it, care must be taken to get the angle JUST right or you won't be able to hone the entire edge without removing excess metal. That's not to say it's inherently worse, but I can say that it takes more time and attention to use the Kell guide than the Eclipse guide, even for narrow blades. The Kell is currently the best guide I have for certain things, but at this point I think the LN guide will replace it. I'll keep my Veritas MK.II for skew sharpening. Especially since I modified it to make the angle settings 100.0% bang-on repeatable. As I said, rewarding. Viscerally even.

Cheers all! Thanks for a lively discussion!

[ian maybury]

Pardon me Tom - for sure the LN version addresses the issue although it (?) doesn't include the means to skew. The cheap ones don't really, which was what was in my mind - you see people modifying them (as David C) to create a reference surface for the flat back of a chisel to pick up on. As in here: http://www.woodworkuk.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1593 The top surface seems often to need flattening to get a decnt registration on a plane iron too: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/tune-up-a-cheap-honing-guide

[Winton Applegate]

I didn't get any further than
"I think and maybe".
Not disparaging you Karl but the presentation at the show and the literature with the tool must both be pretty lame if you have such basic questions about the tools capabilities and use.

OK back to your post . . .

[Karl Fife]

I have the Veritas Mk-II with every attachment they make. This LN jig seems to do a few things my trusty Mk-II doesn't do as well as I'd like.

Fred

I think the Veritas MK.II will be a better performer for skew sharpening. Obviously this is coming from a place of ignorance about the LN having never sharpened with it. The potential problem with the LN is that it places blade/stone contact point off-axis with the wheel. That may produce some adverse 'yaw' when moving the assembly back and forth on the stone. This may require the user to compensate. Just speculation, but I have a strong hunch.

By contrast, the Veritas MK.II allows the BLADE to be placed off-center so the that the blade/stone contact point is exactly in line with the roller. In practice the MK.II works very well for skew sharpening, especially after modifying the skew angle fence to have 100% repeatable settings. The MK.II also allows for honing at any angle, unlike the LN guide which would require different jaws, one for each sharpening angle.

[Karl Fife]

I didn't get any further than ""I think and maybe."
Not disparaging you Karl but the presentation at the show and the literature with the tool must both be pretty lame if you have such basic questions about the tools capabilities and use.


At the show, there was no presentation and no literature. I just saw the tool off in the corner. It was definitely not being 'featured'. Naturally I quickly whipped out my camera to document it for my fellow enthusiasts. Thus, precisely 100% of what's written there is my seat-of-the-pants speculation.

With regard to "Maybe" and "I think", I'm a proponent of qualifying any statement about which I am not 100% confident. I think. ;-)

[Winton Applegate]

e Hex or Torx

I hate to think what the price will be of course.

excellent points.
yah with all those stainless jaws I am thinking hundreds; like three.
Two O' them or more gets up there.
I'm a jig weenie but for chisels, most chisels, free hand is good.

I wonder how some fast thread screws would be to hold the jaws ?
Or . . . nice moving taper locks like on an Aloris tool post (https://www.google.com/search?q=Aloris+tool+post&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=7EUPVZzkMI7joASAmoCgDQ&ved=0CFsQsAQ&biw=812&bih=535) ? Now we'er talking.
That alone ought to get the price up another four hun'ert dollars.

PS: nice tool post by the way . . . don't think about the money just buy it.

[Karl Fife]

Uhh?

Explain the pig sticker chisel in the photos. LN doesn't have one on their web site.

The Ray Iles mortise chisel is not sold by Lie Nielsen. I personally own that chisel, therefore I wanted to sure it would be compatible with the LN guide despite it's unusually tall profile (considerably taller than LN mortise chisels). The upshot is that it fits and works perfectly.

[Winton Applegate]

People may have a set of allen wrenches, many don't. The problem is in many parts of the world people may have imperial sets or they have metric sets. Well most of the world has metric. Even some Phillips style screws and drivers are different.

A flat driver may be the most universal driver available.

Yah well it bloody well better come with the Torx.
They are super cheep, universal, easy to come by.

Work better than anything else. So much grip one snaps the tool off before rounding out the hole like in an allen. I can't tell you how many torx driver bits I have broken off trying to loosen Mercedes hood screws until I learned the secret to success. Never rounded one out though.

Torx or I'm not buying. Or I'm replacing mine with torx.
PS: Philips SUUUUUUCKS don't encourage them to do that what ever you do.

[Winton Applegate]

Agreed, When will slotted screws die away? It is well past time for this to occur.
I agree as well but they look classic and fit the existing LN screw drivers (I assume they fit). Again, looks over performance seems to be the modern rule.

[Winton Applegate]

Yah know . . .
I'm not seeing an angle setter like the Varitas
I'm not seeing the repeateble two click secondary bevel maker
Other than maybe being more rock solid for short/shave blades I see no reason I would want this.
Yah I know make a wooden angle setter stop up against thing.
nope.

[Winton Applegate]

Ray Iles mortise chisel
NICE CHISEL !!!!
I may not want the LN jig but I want your chisel.
Dude !

[Tom Vanzant]

Mike & Ian, I stand corrected.

[ian maybury]

:) Think it was probably half and half Tom - in that the Eclipse while not doing it very well does attempt to register off the back on chisels at least...

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I took the liberty to go back to the October podcast of "Shop Talk Live" (STL 70: Lie-Nielsen Live) where Asa interviewed Thomas Lie-Nielsen, and some interesting things were said. For one, he said around the 48 minute mark in one brief sentence that one thing in the works is a compass plane. Sweet! Around 51 minutes he starts to talk about upcoming releases- the Plow plane and the honing guide. First off, for those of you like myself saying, "Come on, dude- hurry up with the plow plane already!", he did say the end of 2014 or early 2015 it would be released, citing the redesign of their facility as the reason for the delay. I would personally call that no later than the end of March, but that's just me. (That's the end of the first quarter of 2015.)

Next up, he talks about the new honing guide, and I will quote the conversation here. (I type really fast)
[Thomas] The other one is a honing guide... [Asa] Oh, I've heard about this... [Thomas] ...and I've been fooling around with this for quite a long time. Um, we're just about to release this as well. This is actually all stainless steel except for the brass knob on it, and it's based there again on a traditional style. It's a clamping honing guide; eclipse guide- whatever you want to call it. [Asa] Yep, not too different from the little inexpensive one; just in its basic idea. [Thomas] Right, but um... [Asa] ...but I'm sure it's very different in its execution. [Thomas] ...but we sell a lot of those inexpensive ones with our sharpening kits and so forth, but the difference- the main difference- in this one is that the blade is registered against a lip that's above. It's not sitting on a surface, so you are registering the blade off of the long, flat side. [Asa] Right, which rides upwards when you're sharpening. [Thomas] Yes, so um, it doesn't matter what thickness of the blade you are putting in the honing guide, the projection will always be the same because it's registering against the top. It's also a much more solid grip than the other design; and the other part of it which is very cool in my opinion, is that the honing guide is made with removable jaws. [Asa] Oh, I see. [Thomas] - So you can take these jaws off. I don't really like combination tools very much, and, you know, one tool- typically one honing guide is one honing guide; it doesn't do it all well. [Asa] Yeah, there's a variety of blade shapes- spokeshaves- all sorts of things it's got to grab. [Thomas] Exactly. So, they're all a little different, and, um, at the same time, we have designed this so that it will accomodate almost every blade that we make. [Asa] And those little accessory jaws- those index on little pins it looks like so they always return to the same spot. Do they get- Is the plan to have some of them with the basic setup and have some as add-ons? [Thomas] Yeah, I think we're gonna have some with standard blade jaws which will hold most chisels, um, and a pair of long jaws which are designed to hold short blades, and the long jaws have a short side so you can hold really short blades on the long side- as part of the standard package, and then additional jaws will be available for specifically for small chisels, mortice chisels... [Asa] - with the thick body, and I see something there for... [Thomas] They're tall. And one is for skew blades-so this is for our skewed block plane blade. [Asa] Without that they're a challenge to sharpen. [Thomas] Absolutely. So this is going to make it easy- very very easy. So we will have a couple of other separate jaws for other angle skew that we make. We will probably have a jaw that is set up to do our fishtail chisels which have a tapered round shank-so I really think that makes this a very versatile tool. I emphasize using a honing tool the way we teach sharpening, because what I am looking for is a way to get people to get sharp edges quickly, repeatedly and reliably. [***Note: I am leaving out some conversation from Asa about sharpening] [Thomas] So we have a way to set the depth or the projection of the blade which will set your angle with a stop block- It's a very simple way to do that and you can have various stop blocks set up for different angles. And we also teach people to use a secondary bevel that's about 10 deg. higher than the primary bevel which means all your force is focused right on the tip. And we're using honing guides with a stop block where it's extremely repeatable so you can go touch up an edge in a few seconds. [***Note: Again, I am going to leave out some of the conversaytion about sharpening methods] ...[Thomas] So I'm very anxious for this to be on the market. We're about ready to go and I think it will be a vast improvement over what's out there right now. [Asa] Manufacturers never answer this question, but do you have a basic ballpark figure at where it's going to come in; in regards to price? [Thomas] Yes, I'm looking at between $100 and $125 for the basic unit and then the other jaws between $20 and $30 a pair. [Asa] And then you can get a couple of sets that will cover the bulk of what they need to sharpen. [Thomas] Exactly

They go on to talk about the compass plane. Thomas says he is the chief designer and his time is limited. He says he is interested in the design of the tool but also how to efficiently make it. One of the delays, he said, has been the capacity of the shop.

So there ya go- straight from the horse's mouth. Around $125 for the basic model, and $20 to 30 for the add-on jaws. That's fair. By the way, in the above transcript, where he starts talking about registering to a stop block, I think he was actually referring to his sharpening method and you make the stop block yourself- not that it actually comes with one.

[Winton Applegate]

Malcolm,
Man !
Way to go and thanks for typing all that out for us.
Yes those are fair prices for what one gets. High quality in deed.
"10° secondary" I don't know what I think about that. Sounds like too great a change on first blush.
I kind of like the idea of a brass roller in the stones rather than stainless. It may not matter in the least in practice.

Any idea if this is a sealed bearing roller or open and vulnerable to grit like the less expensive version ?

Again thanks for all your hard work.
Winton

[Karl Fife]

Here are some more pictures, including some views of the bottom.

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The Sawmillcreek system wouldn't let me upload all of my pictures in the OP. Sorry about that. Posting them here.

Noteworthy:
The device is bilaterally symmetrical.

309734309735

The aluminum eclipse clone we all know is asymmetric. The clone has a round profile on one side, and a square profile on the other. IIRC the clearance angle on each side of the clone is similar but not quite identical.

By contrast, the LN is exactly symmetric, presumably either side is equally suitable (and interchangeable) as the reference edge.

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi Karl. Thankyou for the thread. Its looks to be a well engineered design with numerous applications. Kudos to LN.

Stewie;

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Malcolm,

"10° secondary" I don't know what I think about that. Sounds like too great a change on first blush.


Again thanks for all your hard work.
Winton

I thought so too, but I rewound it and he certainly said ten degrees. I just went back again and checked- at 57:17-22 he says it. I can only imagine that he meant to say two degrees??? It's clear enough that I did not misunderstand.

[Hilton Ralphs]

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I like that it will hold spokeshave blades.

[Harold Burrell]

Karl,

You're not on the LN payroll are you? You should be getting some kind of commission, methinks. ;)

[Malcolm Schweizer]

By the way, there was another part of the interview I left off:

[Asa] So tell me Thomas, why did you choose flathead screws over torx, hex, or other options? [Thomas] Well Asa, actually we just did that to piss off the guys on the internet forums and give them something to nitpick. Without that the thing wouldn't get much air time. It's all just a trick to get more people talking about it. [Asa] That's very smart marketing. [Thomas] Yes, actually that's the whole deal behind the plow plane as well. We really don't have a clue when we are going to produce this thing. This one here is actually made with a 3D printer and spraypainted to look like metal. [Asa] Wow, you really had me fooled. It's so heavy. [Thomas] Yes, we put lead in there to make it feel more like real metal. This is yet another internet ploy to get people talking. Any publicity is good publicity. [Asa] So what other things do you do to get people talking? [Thomas] Well these are really industry secrets, but we actually sometimes put stuff on eBay at really high prices. Also we sell stuff on Craigslist. For instance, we had these two limited edition planes with sequential serial numbers.... [Asa] I heard about those! [Thomas] Yep! It worked. Got hundreds of hits on our website after we sold those two, and the internet forums were all buzzing. It really got the brand name out there. [Asa] So, do you read forums like Sawmill Creek? [Thomas] No, that's Rob Lee- my competitor. Good grief Asa, do you really have to keep bringing him up on these interviews? [Asa] Sorry, I get the two mixed up. [Thomas] Oh for crying out loud- he makes funky new tools and I make classic tools. He's a punk rocker and I'm a classical guitarrist. Get it straight. [Asa] I'm so sorry. [Thomas] It's okay, but I'm not giving you a hat.

Ha!!! Just having a little fun- none of that really happened... at least not on tape. The previous transcript in my other post, however, is word for word, except I finally started leaving out the word "um" every time Thomas said it, and a few of the two-word comments where Asa buttinskied while Thomas was talking.

[Hilton Ralphs]

My type of humour! Well done Malcolm.

[Tom Vanzant]

I can see it now...LN Honing Guide: p/n XXXXX, -001 for slotted, -002 for Torx, -003 for square, -004 for Allen, ....etc.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Nicely done, Malcolm. Nicely done, indeed.

Especially the riff on the pair of bronze 4-1/2. Too bad you couldn't work the manna-from-heaven 2C in there somehow...........

[Harold Burrell]

By the way, there was another part of the interview I left off:
[Asa] So tell me Thomas, why did you choose flathead screws over torx, hex, or other options? [Thomas] Well Asa, actually we just did that to piss off the guys on the internet forums and give them something to nitpick. Without that the thing wouldn't get much air time. It's all just a trick to get more people talking about it. [Asa] That's very smart marketing. [Thomas] Yes, actually that's the whole deal behind the plow plane as well. We really don't have a clue when we are going to produce this thing. This one here is actually made with a 3D printer and spraypainted to look like metal. [Asa] Wow, you really had me fooled. It's so heavy. [Thomas] Yes, we put lead in there to make it feel more like real metal. This is yet another internet ploy to get people talking. Any publicity is good publicity. [Asa] So what other things do you do to get people talking? [Thomas] Well these are really industry secrets, but we actually sometimes put stuff on eBay at really high prices. Also we sell stuff on Craigslist. For instance, we had these two limited edition planes with sequential serial numbers.... [Asa] I heard about those! [Thomas] Yep! It worked. Got hundreds of hits on our website after we sold those two, and the internet forums were all buzzing. It really got the brand name out there. [Asa] So, do you read forums like Sawmill Creek? [Thomas] No, that's Rob Lee- my competitor. Good grief Asa, do you really have to keep bringing him up on these interviews? [Asa] Sorry, I get the two mixed up. [Thomas] Oh for crying out loud- he makes funky new tools and I make classic tools. He's a punk rocker and I'm a classical guitarrist. Get it straight. [Asa] I'm so sorry. [Thomas] It's okay, but I'm not giving you a hat.

Ha!!! Just having a little fun- none of that really happened... at least not on tape. The previous transcript in my other post, however, is word for word, except I finally started leaving out the word "um" every time Thomas said it, and a few of the two-word comments where Asa buttinskied while Thomas was talking.

HA! Excellent!

[Paul Sidener]

I was there as well. I love going to Jeff Millers shop. It is better than the Lie Nielsen tools, and I love the tools. Jeff is wonderful to talk to and is a very good host for the hand tool event. I did get a good look at the honing guide. While talking to the LN rep, he did say it would be in the $100 range for the basic unit. They were also taking names for a waiting list for the first production run. They would get theirs before they go on sale to the general public. I did get on the list, we'll see how it goes. Maybe they are using that to gauge interest.

[James Owen]

On the serious side, slotted screws need to continue to exist for reproduction work....
On the not–so–serious side, how do you expect LN to be able to sell their lovely (flat–bladed) screwdriver set, if they don't put slotted screws on their tools? :-)

[James Owen]

Stealth gloat....
Nicely done!

[Karl Fife]

You're not on the LN payroll are you? You should be getting some kind of commission, methinks. ;)

Right?!

Sadly, quite the opposite is true. The payroll goes from me TO Lie-Nielsen, and many of the other fine toolmakers that keep this great craft alive. No regrets. I'd rather drive an old car and live in a lesser house, than waste precious hours of life working with shitty tools.

Hats off to Chris Vesper, Richard Kell, Lee Marshall, Kuriyama Noboru (Kinshiro), Dave Jeske, Raney Nelson, Del Stubbs, Gary Benson, and others. I'm sure Joel, Patrick, Robin, Ray and the rest will forgive me for not calling them out by name. :-)

[Rob Lee]

Can I play too?

http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/jaws.jpg

:)

[ken hatch]

Can I play too?

http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/jaws.jpg

:)Rob,

Sure....but more than a tease, please :).

ken

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Can I play too?

http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/jaws.jpg

:)

You can play, but not if you're just going to tease us. :-) So I see the "bump" that the angle registration jig fits onto. I see adjustable side clamping jaws. I don't see what keeps the blade from slipping out. Just torque, or are the jaws angled in? Looks nice, though. The real question is does it have slotted screws?

[Harold Burrell]

Can I play too?

http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/jaws.jpg

:)


Rob,

Sure....but more than a tease, please :).

ken

Yeah, right Rob...SERIOUSLY? That's all we get???

We will only allow you to play if you play fair.

[Simon MacGowen]

Can I play too?

http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/jaws.jpg

:)

You play... and we pay but no narrow rollers please (those who love narrow rollers can choose the LN's new jig when it comes out)!

Simon

[John Crawford]

Ok, now this is getting amusing.... I suggest that LV and LN both offer dramatic trade-in discounts for the others' product: Get 50% off our new honing guide when you trade in your LN guide!

Yes, I am an expert in marketing. :p

[Karl Fife]

http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/jaws.jpg



...and I see you have "directory browsing" turned off at "http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/"

You didn't expect me to NOT check, did you?!

I see that your *tech* department is doing GOOD work also. I've HEARD about that kind of thing. :-)

I guess it should come as no surprise. That's is consistent with what I've seen in the past. I remember the Lee Valley E-Commerce site was WAY ahead of its time back in the early 2000's. Furthermore, LV seems to be one of a small handfull of companies that knows how silly it is to "clear" shopping carts "periodically", say monthly, yearly etc. (a kind of e-housekeeping, as if there's a shortage of 'bits'). Consequently, I once bought something I'd added to my cart from *years* earlier (I'd forgotten the tool even existed). Kudos!

[Rob Lee]

...and I see you have "directory browsing" turned off at "http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/"

You didn't expect me to NOT check, did you?!

I see that your *tech* department is doing GOOD work also. I've HEARD about that kind of thing. :-)

I guess it should come as no surprise. That's is consistent with what I've seen in the past. I remember the Lee Valley E-Commerce site was WAY ahead of its time back in the early 2000's. Furthermore, LV seems to be one of a small handfull of companies that knows how silly it is to "clear" shopping carts "periodically", say monthly, yearly etc. (a kind of e-housekeeping, as if there's a shortage of 'bits'). Consequently, I once bought something I'd added to my cart from *years* earlier (I'd forgotten the tool even existed). Kudos!

Hi Karl -

Thanks for the kind comments - our IT work is all done in-house. We do have to do some web site updating, and will be rolling modest changes out starting in a month or two. Our system architecture is challenged by our current product line, making navigation a wee bit difficult right now. Lots of good stuff in the works though.

Not only do I expect directory browsing - I also expect people to try variants of file names.... so sometimes I deliberately create a name that suggests it is part of a sequence... like "HG_003" .... :rolleyes: . Others like HG2009 might suggest using HG2015 (only one of those works).

Cheers -

Rob

[Simon MacGowen]

...and I see you have "directory browsing" turned off at "http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/"



I thought that's standard IT practice. No? The IT security training I received mandates that public access to corporate data be specific and "dead-ended."

Simon

[Rob Lee]

I thought that's standard IT practice. No? The IT security training I received mandates that public access to corporate data be specific and "dead-ended."

Simon

Yes - unless you *want* it to be otherwise.....

We are Level 1 PCI compliant, and have regular security audits, and penetration testing. Additionally - we use tokenization to ensure personal payment information stays secure (if ya don't keep it, ya can't lose it!), as well as regular encryption key changes.

Cheers -

Rob

[Jim Koepke]

Can I play too?

http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/jaws.jpg

:)

Is it just me (on the outside) who knows what this is?

In just eight short days we are going to see a blade sharpening holder for blades up to 12" wide. It will be expandable for even wider planer blades.

jtk

[Rob Lee]

Is it just me (on the outside) who knows what this is?

In just eight short days we are going to see a blade sharpening holder for blades up to 12" wide. It will be expandable for even wider planer blades.

jtk

Hi Jim -

Ummmm.... like this one? http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=56737&cat=1

Nope - we don't repeat those....:D

The shot I posted is of something in production...

Cheers,

Rob

[Harold Burrell]

The shot I posted is of something in production...



"And will be available ____________..." :confused:

[Kent A Bathurst]

"And will be available ____________..." :confused:

April 1.


10101010

[Karl Fife]

Hi Karl -
Thanks for the kind comments - our IT work is all done in-house. We do have to do some web site updating, and will be rolling modest changes out starting in a month or two. Our system architecture is challenged by our current product line, making navigation a wee bit difficult right now. Lots of good stuff in the works though.


Rob,
As an in-house systems architect for our family of companies, I can relate to the challenge. It's difficult to create systems that are durable (i.e. systems with no intractable dependency on platforms that become EOL), yet make those systems agile to accommodate future needs and paradigm shifts.

I always say, it's *easy* to make strategic IT decisions. Development platforms and consultants are plentiful. HOWEVER, in reality, it's extremely difficult to make GOOD, LONG-TERM, strategic IT decisions. The landscape evolves very quickly, vetting new concepts is difficult and the cost of mediocre decisions are deceptively high. In my opinion, very few people have the perspective to be able to tell the difference between them.

May we all be tolerant of any hiccups that may occur in your evolution!
Cheers!

[Rob Lee]

Hi Karl -

I do a lot of system specification - wrote our first POS system in C many many years ago. While I don't do programming anymore - I still do a lot of conceptualization and specification.

Can still make the i-Series (or whatever the heck it's called this week) sit up and beg when I want it to though.... :)

Cheers -

Rob

[Rob Lee]

"And will be available ____________..." :confused:

Hi Harold -

Even a wood worker who's had a tablesaw oops could count the weeks on their remaining fingers.....

And that's as far I can go... :)

Cheers -

Rob

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Well there's an idea Rob- you could apply "blade retracting" technology to the honing jig. Lord knows, I have cut myself more than a few times while using your honing jig. I would sue you, but then you'd just get whatever I won right back with my first order, so it's futile. By the way, I just found out that you're getting a quarterly bonus (by way of ME spending MY quarterly bonus) in April. Please enjoy it, and if the wife happens to ask, we didn't get a quarterly bonus, okay? Work with me. This is a partnership.

[ken hatch]

Hi Harold -

Even a wood worker who's had a tablesaw oops could count the weeks on their remaining fingers.....

And that's as far I can go... :)

Cheers -

Rob

Rob,

You are having too much fun....:).

Thanks for the tease, even though 90% of my sharpening is without jigs there are times a functional jig could help. I will be looking for the announcement, hope it will take care of the 10%.

ken

[Simon MacGowen]

Yes - unless you *want* it to be otherwise.....

We are Level 1 PCI compliant, and have regular security audits, and penetration testing. Additionally - we use tokenization to ensure personal payment information stays secure (if ya don't keep it, ya can't lose it!), as well as regular encryption key changes.

Cheers -

Rob

Thanx. That's reassuring and we always have no fear buying online from LV. Since the new jig is now in production, it couldn't be the April Fools' Day release which I suppose must have already been built. Too bad we don't know how the new toy works until after the Bonus Event.

Simon

[Mike Brady]

In a town named for a refrigerator?;)

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Can I play too?

http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/jaws.jpg

:)

Finally an attachment for Veritas® Mk.II Honing Guide that allows side clamping.

"Now even more fiddly!"

Leading edge of pictured device has a 3" rail just like leading edge of current Mk.II guide. You could imagine it is a complete replacement for the top section of the guide (that attaches to roller), but these jaws would not be sufficient to keep blades from sliding in them.

It is also worth nothing that word "temprl" is part of the url. Does this refer to temporal - meaning "of this world", or relating to time. This may be the key to understanding how it works.

Correction - I believe rail in photo is 2.75". Don't know how long it is on Mk.II.

Correction 2 - it seems jaws are angled, possibly enough to securely hold both blades with beveled sides (by bottom surface and by item being stuck into the small curve at bottom of jaws), and blades with flat sides, by pinching them on the opposite end. If I guessed what this item is, I expect a free sample.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

We do have to do some web site updating, and will be rolling modest changes out starting in a month or two.

Please let users post comments on products. For example, I suggested to your customer support to list the longer 3/4" HCS brad bit that can go through a 4" top, instead of the short 3/4" HSS bit that can't, with the bushing product that is intended for drilling dog holes - especially since HSS bit has 1/2" shank and HCS bit has 3/8 shank, so will fit many more drills. They didn't say it wouldn't work, so it is a mystery why HSS. It may be scary to lose control over carefully presented marketing copy. Do it anyway.

[Ron Bontz]

I am sure it is a nice jig and I like the stainless. But I think I will stay with my LV for now.:)

[Greg Husband]

I was at the LN show in Nashville earlier this month where they were demonstrating the honing guide. They said the price point would be around $100 and $25 for additional jaws for the honing guide. However, they said it may be later this year before production starts.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Finally an attachment for Veritas® Mk.II Honing Guide that allows side clamping.

"Now even more fiddly!"

Leading edge of pictured device has a 3" rail just like leading edge of current Mk.II guide. You could imagine it is a complete replacement for the top section of the guide (that attaches to roller), but these jaws would not be sufficient to keep blades from sliding in them.

It is also worth nothing that word "temprl" is part of the url. Does this refer to temporal - meaning "of this world", or relating to time. This may be the key to understanding how it works.

Correction - I believe rail in photo is 2.75". Don't know how long it is on Mk.II.

Correction 2 - it seems jaws are angled, possibly enough to securely hold both blades with beveled sides (by bottom surface and by item being stuck into the small curve at bottom of jaws), and blades with flat sides, by pinching them on the opposite end. If I guessed what this item is, I expect a free sample.

Well, I was correct about what the item Rob was showing was: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?p=51868 :)

[Hilton Ralphs]

Lie-Nielsen had the opportunity to swing some Veritas narrow blade owners their way but it seems whilst they were sleeping, the thief was in the chicken coop.

313512

313513

Slam dunk!

[Marko Milisavljevic]

I had really hoped this would accommodate standard 2"+ plane blades. I dislike that I'm always expecting plane blades in the standard guide to slip/rotate and sometimes it moves by just a bit, so you don't realize for a number of strokes that you are honing at a skew. If you tighten the standard guide down hard, it will flex so that only ends are touching the blade, the middle bows out. It frustrates me that a company I admire so much designed this thing and continues to not improve on it (as far as wide blades go)

[ian maybury]

It's an interesting response to what is presumably (?) the tendency of the stock clamp/head to not very securely locate narrow tools - to prevent their skewing, and their leaning over to the side. Also to not be great at holding tools like Japanese chisels with backs that can slope up quite steeply from front to back of the blade. It's possible to get around these issues with high grip facings on the stock clamps/head - as previously posted - but this approach should work too and presumably has the advantage of not adding cost to the stock unit/being a bolt on upgrade for current owners.

Quite a lot hangs on the profile of the clamping lugs on the new head/clamp being correct. (so that the flat back face of the chisel is held tight against the reference surface of the clamp - which must in turn be in the same plane as the cylindrical roller) The instructions show it being used with the angle setting jig, and apparently using the side rail and stop on that to set the alignment. This might suggest that both the jaws and the jig need to be in correct alignment with each other.

Wonder does it handle short blades like e.g. spokeshave? I'm not sure that the angle setting jig can handle such a short blade/that it can be gripped forward enough in the clamp to deliver the correct angle - maybe it would need some sort of extension jaw like the LN to do so? Guessing it's probably intended for use use with the LV short/small blade holder they also do - which would also work with the stock head.

I wonder if they have managed to deliver a fix for the occasional minor misalignment between the plane of the cylindrical roller and the face of the clamp that the flat back of the chisel locates against that seems to pop up on occasion? This is a potential source of a misaligned micro bevel - although in truth it seems to be more of a tolerancing issue than anything requiring a redesign...

[Reinis Kanders]

Would this work with pigsticker type mortise chisel that has trapezoidal cross section? I have hard time getting narrower chisels of that type to be square when doing it by hand.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I will get a video up soon of the new honing guide in action. At first, I asked the same thing- "Why not make it accept 2 inch chisels?" It is a narrow blade guide, and a 2" chisel is so wide it works fine with the standard guide. As for the jaws, they do have some camber to them so they hold the tool with force against the guide, i.e. The slight camber to the jaws create some upward force as well as the side clamping force to keep the whole thing locked tight. It is quick and simple to register a chisel, and the screw action is very smooth. A very well-thought tool as always by Veritas.

[Karl Fife]

Would this work with pigsticker type mortise chisel that has trapezoidal cross section? I have hard time getting narrower chisels of that type to be square when doing it by hand.

This is an interesting question. The chisel references directly off the *face* in this side-clamp jig, which is great for angle consistency irrespective of blade thickness, but in this implementation it appears to accommodate blades up to a 15/32" thick. That would not be enough clearance for the the pig sticker chisels you mention. The LN can hold those tall pigsticker chisels, but only with the special mortise chisel jaws.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I wonder too if they have managed to deliver a fix for the occasional minor misalignment between the plane of the cylindrical roller and the face of the clamp that the flat back of the chisel locates against that seems to pop up on occasion? This is a potential source of a misaligned micro bevel

If you are referring to the new Veritas jig then consider this excerpt from the instructions.


The section between the primary bevel and the micro-bevel can often be skewed in relation to the edge; however, this is not a concern. While the geometry of the guide is sensitive to even the smallest influences, the geometry at the edge of the blade is not nearly as sensitive. The guide will create a square edge, even if the section between the primary bevel and the micro-bevel appears to be skewed.

313528

[Hilton Ralphs]

Would this work with pigsticker type mortise chisel that has trapezoidal cross section? I have hard time getting narrower chisels of that type to be square when doing it by hand.

From the literature;


It accepts blades from 1/8" to 1-1/2" wide, holding bevel-edged chisels up to 15/32" thick and square-edged blades up to 11/32" thick.

[ian maybury]

Chances are one will end up in my collection - there's always some scenario that another guide works best in. The price of going down the honing guide/perfect facets route i guess.

I guess Hilton the other half of the 'parallel micro bevel issue' (which for sure is mostly a cosmetic/aesthetic concern) is whether or not the primary bevel over which the micro bevel is ground/was straight in the first place. The Mk 2 guide set up references its alignment off the flat back of the chisel, whereas when e.g. hand sharpening the micro bevel ends up aligned off the primary bevel. The latter won't eliminate but will tend to hide any misalignment.

I'm a big fan of consistent alignment off the back since i've so far been honing my Japanese chisels single bevel after doing any light grinding needed (normally none) in the same honing guide (with no removal from the guide in between) off the top work surface on a Work Sharp. The fun starts with single bevel when you go to re-sharpen - which is why i said 'so far'. This set up is working fine after several. The honing guide has to return the chisel to pretty much precisely the same alignment as the last time around to enable quick re- sharpening on a fine waterstone with no more than minimal metal removal.

[Karl Fife]

An update on Lie Nielsen honing guide!!

Update 1 of 2:
"Should be available for purchase in just a few weeks"

I was lucky enough to go to Handworks 2015 in Amana, Iowa. While I was there, I talked with a number if different Lie Nielsen reps who all seemed to be saying the exact same thing, which is that the honing guide will be available for purchase in just a few weeks' time.

Update 2 of 2:
"Around $100, but we're not completely sure yet"

Of course I also asked about the cost.
I think the conversation went like this:
[OP] "So, how much will it cost?"
[LN] "Around $100, but we're not completely sure yet"
[OP] "I'm guessing that's because you have yet to determine final machine/tool time per copy, plus the defect rate etc., yes?"
[LN] "That's pretty much it on the nose."

I also looked at the new side-clamp attachment for the MKII LN guide. It's a fine piece of engineering.

Which one to own?! Great question. I've come to believe that there is no single honing guide for all tasks. No matter how versatile any particular guide, you may want to own a few guides for the exact same reason you own multiple hand planes--It's efficient to keep certain ones set up for certain tasks even if, in theory, one could everything. This is truly a first-world "problem" where we have decide between multiple excellent tools, all of which perform well enough to be inspiring. Now that that's settled, I'm about to post "Close-Up and Personal Look at the NEW Lie-Nielsen Plow Plane", with pictures :-)

[Mike Brady]

I worked almost all of this rainy day on a project with many dovetails, and the resultant need for several intermittent sharpening sessions. I have been using the MkII narrow blade head since it became available a couple of weeks ago. I know this product was beta tested. Good thing it wasn't me that did that testing, because I have to report very mixed results. I most likely will return the product. The problem is similar to the broader issue of this guide system not holding work pieces well. I suggest that the powder coating is much to blame for this. I have sharpened many chisels with it. So far, I would say that, ironically, my Lie-Nielsen chisels fit into the clamping system the best. I have two chisel sets that do not hold in the clamping jaws: The modern Stanley Sweetheart bench chisels, and the Irwin (Marples) blue-handled bench chisels. These two brands have similar profiles. The sides are mildly beveled but the bevels intersect flat sides that are rather blunt. On this profile the smooth jaws of the Narrow Blade Holder simply don't gain a secure enough purchase to hold the chisel firmly. The jaws have no texture and are covered with the thick powder-coat finish. I also think they are much too small for the job they are required to do. After a frustrating hour of trying, I pulled out my eclipse clone and re-honed my spent chisel edges. I guess I am at the point where I have to decide if the $48. investment is justifiable for such limited utility.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I have been using the MkII narrow blade head since it became available a couple of weeks ago. I know this product was beta tested.
I have to report very mixed results. I most likely will return the product.
I guess I am at the point where I have to decide if the $48. investment is justifiable for such limited utility.

Yes indeed. For that price you can get 4 of those Eclipse clones and modify them to exactly what you want.

[Jebediah Eckert]

For what it's worth........

I was in the area visiting family and stopped by Lie Nielsen for a tour. Well worth it, nice people, impressive operation. I asked about the honing guide and they said they were just today (Thursday) sending out emails and taking orders. They didn't have the boxes, or something like that, but would be shipping them out in a week or two. The guides were completed and ready.

I got to try it out and did like it.

[Karl Fife]

What it's worth is... a lot!
Thanks for the heads up. I just sent an email to Maine--just in case I'm "down the list" in terms of the email notification/sign-up.

It appears that the tool isn't on the web site yet, so I haven't been able to get a fix on price or options. I imagine it would be convenient if they were to sell bases separately from the jaws. For example, if somebody wanted to have two bases, and four different kinds of jaws. That way one could spend less time changing out jaws without having to buy 'complete sets' and end up with extra 'normal' jaws.

In addition to accessory jaws, I also hope they sell accessory Jawa's. That way I can stay busy building stuff while the Jawas sharpen the tools. I'd settle for Ewoks. No to "Droids". Their kind *still* aren't allowed here for some reason (Crazy right? In this day and age?!). I guess they'll just have to wait outside.

[Jebediah Eckert]

The "standard" honing guide is $125. I'm not sure what that comes with.

[Russ Ellis]

I did not see this online and did not get an e-mail either. It's a neat looking guide but $125 is just a bit rich for me.

[Jebediah Eckert]

I gave it a whirl. Maybe I got caught up in the moment, but I have never been disappointed by any Lie Nielsen product I have purchased. I got 10% off for buying it in the showroom, and they ship it no charge because it wasn't ready quite yet. They said I should have it in a week or two. We will see.

My sharpening can always use improvement. I doubt this will cure much for me but I should be able to rule out the guide as the culprit. I'm sure I am not the only one on here to throw good money to try and cure bad technique :D

It also came at a good time because my "cheater" board for setting angles on my old guide got destroyed. I left it on my spare bench and my kid decided to incorporate it into a hilt for a wooden sword, or I think that is what it became......so if I have to make a new one........

[Karl Fife]

Update:
Tall Jaws and compatibility:
The prototype Lie Nielsen 'Tall Jaws' shown below (the ones that you may have seen at various shows) are DIFFERENT than the production jaws. If you're thinking about buying them, you probably should take note. They may NOT be compatible with your chisel.

PROTOTYPE: 5/8" tall (strong)
322470
PRODUCTION: 1/2" tall (shy)
322471

DIFFERENCES:
Note that the production jaws have PLUMB/FLAT side walls, compared to the TAPERED prototype jaws.
Note that the production jaws are SHORTER when compared to the TALLER prototype jaws.

SIGNIFICANCE:
These differences mean that the PRODUCTION jaws are NOT able to hold the popular Ray/Ashley Isles mortise chisels as shown below. The prototype jaws were confirmed compatible (confirmed awesome), but I can also confirm that the production jaws are NOT. You may want to check before buying this accessory jaw if you are hoping to use the jaws with a non-Lie-Nielsen mortise chisel.
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DISCUSSION:
The advantage to the production design is that they're easier to set honing angles correctly and repeatably. Note the production jaws have flat walls that are square to the guide body. These square walls will hold the chisel consistently every time. On the other hand, the prototype's slight taper DID make the jaws able to grip the slightly tapered body of the popular Isles mortise chisels. The downside to the prototype design is that the "wiggle room" (created by the tapered jaws meeting the tapered chisel) created the possibility of accidental misalignment (i.e. a slight twist) when the clamping forces locked the chisel in place. This design meant that clamping the chisel in place was a slightly more fussy process, and if misaligned, would cause honing headaches.

CONCLUSION:
If you have the Lie Nielsen sash mortise chisels, the production tall jaws are perfect. They're an improvement over the prototype. If you do not have Lie Nielsen sash mortise chisels, the tall jaws may not work with your mortise chisel, and I can confirm that they do NOT work with the Isles mortise chisels.

I hope this helps!

[Simon MacGowen]

Update:
Tall Jaws and compatibility:

I hope this helps!

It certainly does. Thanks for such a timely update. The reviews of the new Veritas narrow guide and the LN jaws seem to reaffirm that there simply is no one single solution or jig out there that can handle all the various types and brands of chisels. The search for a "perfect" jig is still on... (if one does exist, it's the freehand solution may be.)

Simon

[Karl Fife]

I agree with you. Personally I use two jigs.

In my case I was EXTREMELY lucky to have Lie Nielsen find and send me one of their TALL, TAPERED PROTOTYPE tall jaw sets. I'm still just giddy about that. Were it not for having scored the prototype, I'd be using the Richard Kell #1 honing guide (but with the optional large wheels) as my third honing guide. I'd use it only for mortise chisels because it's slightly more work than the LN guide to clean the wheels when moving between stones.

My second jig is the Veritas Mark 2. I use it solely for skew sharpening. I modified it for 100% angular repeatability. I'll post about it sometime.