Anybody running carbide in a Tersa head planer?

[Larry Edgerton]

Impressions?

I have been doing a lot of work with exotics that are eating M42 knives. I switched my jointer to carbides and they are holding up well, but its not a Tersa head. If you use them let me know what you think and if you have had any fractures.

Thanks, Larry

[David Kumm]

Hopefully Joe Calhoon will chime in. He runs carbide pretty much all the time. Dave

[peter gagliardi]

I have a current job in the shop making some Teak exterior doors, so carbide was in order. I run the Terminus heads in my planer and jointer. Their knives are a bit more substantial than the Tersa in terms of thickness and width. So far, after only a few hundred board feet, they are good. I do run carbide in a Great Lakes head in my molder that are along the same proportions as the Tersa- no breaking or cracking in 12+ years.
I really hope the knife life is miles better than the steel, boy is the carbide pricey!!!

[Erik Loza]

I have not personally used carbide in a Tersa head but have a fair number of owners who do and have yet to hear about a knife "fracturing", or anything like that. Not saying it's an urban myth but am saying that I have yet to personally hear a report of it in 10+ years.

Peter, have you considered going 50/50 carbide and HSS in your cutterhead?

Erik

[David Kumm]

Erik, is the weight close enough to use both types and will the steel edge wear down to where the carbide are the only knives doing any work? Dave

[Joe Calhoon]

I was disappointed with the Tersa M42. If you run knot free softwoods it would be OK. Not good for hardwood or softer wood with knots.
We have been running carbide in our Tersa S4S machine for a few years now. Scary expensive but less cost in the end. The carbide Tersa is very tough and no issues with nicking or fracturing. We have hit a few staples with no issue. We run 2 knives in 4 knife heads. These are Leitz Tersa clones and would think Tersa carbide similar. They can be resharpened.

We tried mixing carbide with M42. They are slightly different in knife projection and you gain nothing.

In the Tersa head jointer and planer we just tried Kanafusa Tersa coated HSS knives. Again 2 knives in 4 knife heads. They are about 1/2 the cost of carbide. They are tight lipped about what the coating is but probably diamond. Here is a picture of some Ash planed with these. We have only run about a thousand feet with these so no opinion yet.

Joe309478

[Erik Loza]

Joe, would you mind shooting me a link to the Kanefusa dealer you get those from?

Thanks,

Erik

[Larry Edgerton]

Thanks.

I will have to buy a set as I have more of this work coming up. I was worried about fracture more than anything. The fracture worry was my own thing, nothing I heard.

I just planed about 200 ft of Makore and that was one side of the M42's gone. I change two at a time as well unless I am doing birdseye or tiger maple. Two carbide is what I was thinking, that's only $340 ish.

Again, thanks for the input. I have no one up here in the sticks to talk to about such things so this feedback is invaluable.

Larry

[David Zaret]

i also recently put a set of Kanefusa Tersas on my martin, and i'm very impressed with the longevity. they seem to be lasting a lot longer, and staying sharper. the set was ~$400 vs. ~$100 for a set of HSS/M42s, but so far i'm thinking they are worth the cost.

the only thing i noticed with the Kanefusas is they appear to be slightly larger in height than the standard Tersas - maybe it's the coating? anyway, this became apparent in the jointer when i started seeing very slight snipe on the trailing edge. minor issue, for sure, but something to note.

-- dz

[Larry Edgerton]

Joe, would you mind shooting me a link to the Kanefusa dealer you get those from?

Thanks,

Erik

Ditto, if you don't mind........

Again, Thank You

[Erik Loza]

Erik, is the weight close enough to use both types and will the steel edge wear down to where the carbide are the only knives doing any work? Dave

Good question, Dave. I don't have a firm answer for you. It's a common shop trick and to be honest, those guys are all going for flatness and longevity perhaps more than final surface finish so maybe it doesn't matter so much in that context?

Erik

[David Zaret]

erik, i bought my Kanefusas directly from Carl at Martin.

[Erik Loza]

Really?!?...

I'll have to make a note of that. Thanks David.

Erik

[mreza Salav]

Thanks for the info. Joe, I too ham interested in finding out some supplier of those Kanefusa blades for my Tersa head Jointer/planer.

[Joe Calhoon]

Joe, would you mind shooting me a link to the Kanefusa dealer you get those from?

Thanks,

Erik

Hi Eric,
I don't have the address here at the shop. Google Kanafusa USA and something should come up. There is only one guy there that knows about these.

I got mine from Martin. Carl had them stock the sizes for the jointer and planer.
I bet they would stock the sizes for MiniMax if you talk to them. If needed I can dig up the contact info at home later.

They are a little different projection also. We had to adjust the jointer a little.

Joe

[Erik Loza]

Good info, thanks for sharing Joe.

Erik

[Chris Padilla]

Erik,

Let me know what you find out regarding the Kanefusa blades. My FS41 Elite could use 3 of 'em. :D

[peter gagliardi]

I have not personally used carbide in a Tersa head but have a fair number of owners who do and have yet to hear about a knife "fracturing", or anything like that. Not saying it's an urban myth but am saying that I have yet to personally hear a report of it in 10+ years.

Peter, have you considered going 50/50 carbide and HSS in your cutterhead?

Erik
Erik,
Right now because it is a four knife head, when running the Teak I run the two carbide blades, and get a very acceptable 2 knife finish,and put dummy knives in the other pair of slots.
I had to run some other hardwoods recently as well, so rather than pull the carbide and reinstall all steel, I pulled the dummy slots and filled with steel. So I was running normal hardwoods with the 50/50 split as you say. I have entertained running a section of the heads with carbide full time, and the rest steel, but have not actually tried it yet.

[Chris Padilla]

My Tersa head is a bit older...runs 3 knives.

[Larry Edgerton]

Erik,
I have entertained running a section of the heads with carbide full time, and the rest steel, but have not actually tried it yet.

I have thought about that as well. I was thinking about a 10 mm split, say 250mm-270mm on two opposing and 270mm-250mm on the remaining two so that the break was not in the same spot.


Larry
But I have read that the carbide is a slightly different height enough times that I want you to try it first.:p

[Erik Loza]

Erik,

Let me know what you find out regarding the Kanefusa blades. My FS41 Elite could use 3 of 'em. :D

To paraphrase what Joe told me, these seem to be available either through Martin USA or just google the Kanefusa US dealer. It seems like there is only one. Must confess, I had no idea about this option until now. Very interesting stuff.


Erik,
Right now because it is a four knife head, when running the Teak I run the two carbide blades, and get a very acceptable 2 knife finish,and put dummy knives in the other pair of slots.
I had to run some other hardwoods recently as well, so rather than pull the carbide and reinstall all steel, I pulled the dummy slots and filled with steel. So I was running normal hardwoods with the 50/50 split as you say. I have entertained running a section of the heads with carbide full time, and the rest steel, but have not actually tried it yet.

Yea, that's pretty par for the course from what I have seen. I have actually used those dummy knives. I know Martin supplies them but I have never had a chance to experiement with them.


I have thought about that as well. I was thinking about a 10 mm split, say 250mm-270mm on two opposing and 270mm-250mm on the remaining two so that the break was not in the same spot. Larry
But I have read that the carbide is a slightly different height enough times that I want you to try it first.:p

Yeah, I have seen shops do that as well. That's the nice thing about Tersa as opposed to helical, in that you have the option to play around a little bit.

Erik

[Chris Padilla]

I just sent an email inquiring about getting 410 mm blades from them. I'll let you know what I find out.

[Larry Edgerton]

Erik, is the weight close enough to use both types and will the steel edge wear down to where the carbide are the only knives doing any work? Dave

If the two heavier knives were straight across from each other the difference would be cancelled. Carbide/steel/carbide/steel and it would still have perfect primary balance if I am thinking right.

[Joe Calhoon]

I think the carbide - HSS combo would work fine on the planer. But the jointer with the little difference in height not so good.
From my experience the carbide cuts as well as HSS and for a long time. 2 knives seems as good as 4 in most cases. Except the jointer being hand fed would benefit from using all. We run a short knife with blank in the area where most edge jointing occurs. See picture. The Kanfausa knives are the same height as the carbide so this may be worth exploring.
As I said time will tell if the coated knives are cost effective.
Joe

309491

[J.R. Rutter]

Thanks for the info on the coated knives. I have been running 2+2 carbide and steel and just adjusted for the higher projection. Getting a good finish even though only 2 knives are responsible. Interested to see if there are 410mm knives available.

[Chris Padilla]

J.R., I got the following reply thus far:


Dear Chris,

Thank you for your email.
We will follow up from our distributor near you.

Thank you.
Best regards
Harry Oda
Kanefusa USA,Inc

[David Kumm]

I can't tell from the website if Kanefusa are available as regular knives. Any info? Dave

[Chris Padilla]

I finally got a reply to my inquiry:


Good afternoon Chris;
Thank you for your interest in our knives.
Kanefusa has forwarded your inquiry to me regarding replacement knives for your Minimax FS-41 Elite machine.

The blades they are recommending is a product that has a special heat and abrasion resistant coating applied, that will give you a knife that will outlast High Speed Steel up to 3-5 times longer.

These were recently shown on "Martin" machinery planers and Jointers at the AWFS Show in Atlanta, GA, with great enthusiasm and response.
The knives are in production currently for the 410 length dimension, and will be avaliable in approximately 4 weeks.

Part # TERSAKF-410-ST1. (Double edged knives) (410mm X 10mm x 2.3mm), Solid ST-1 Sold per blade, List Price: $73.80 ea

Acme Saw: $53.51 ea, Your Price ea,
X 3 blades = $160.53, plus inbound shipping from KY, USA,local Sales Tax applies.

Please let me know how I can be of further assistance.
Regards,

Dan Connell
Acme Saw & Industrial Supply
East Bay-Stockton-Fresno Territories
(209) 670-4167 cell

[Erik Loza]

Chris, that's a pretty good price!

Erik

[Chris Padilla]

I thought so, too. I'm ordering 6 blades! :D

[Larry Edgerton]

Chris, a review after you torture them a bit would be appreciated.

Thanks, Larry

[mreza Salav]

The pricing I get for them up here (Canada) is about 30% better than carbide. In that case it seems carbide is still a better choice to go with.

[Larry Edgerton]

Ok, I started the Makore ceiling that I bought the carbides for. I only used two and two dummies.

I roughed out at 72 FPM and did the final pass at 16 FPM. The finish quality is every bit as good as HSS, the knives were "VERY" sharp out of the box, and at the end of the run of about 2000 ft the cut had not degraded as far as I could see. Finish was good, and this was highly figured Makore which is tough, almost no sanding.

So..... I am happy and wish I had switched a long time ago. The knives I bought are genuine Tersa knives.

Larry