Rabbet Plane vs Shoulder Plane?

[Frederick Skelly]

Hi guys,
1) What's really the difference? I know they have different bedding angles, and that the bevels are in opposite directions. But they seem to do many of the same things and I don't see a ton of physical differences.

2) Can a Shoulder Plane do everything that a Rabbet Plane does, assuming the grain isn't all twisted up?

The Backstory. (Edit: I read the article in my personal email before I read Mr. Koepke's thread about it. Sorry.) LV's email newsletter arrived today and has an article about using Shoulder Planes for more than "just" shoulders. Many of the things the author suggests remind me of what other authors suggest using Rabbet Planes for; e.g., roughing out moldings before sticking them with your H&Rs. Well, lately I've been a bit bored building furniture so I've been trying to learn to build a few side escapement planes. What I need immediately is a 1/4" Round and I hope to make that one this weekend. But I was also going to make a 3/4" Rabbet Plane (straight, not skewed), just for fun. But now I'm wondering if I should make a 3/4" Shoulder Plane instead, because it might be more versatile. My LV Small Shoulder is bedded at a low 15* (bevel up) and my antique store Rabbet is bedded at 48* (bevel down).

Here's my theory - please nudge me if I've got it wrong. It seems like a Shoulder can do everything a Rabbet can do, but that the opposite isn't true; i.e., a Rabbet can only do a subset of what a Shoulder Plane can do. (There are some exceptions in both directions - I'm guessing the Shoulder can't handle twisty grain very well and that the Rabbet can't handle end grain very well. So these are generalizations, I'm sure.) But if I was only going to build ONE of them - which would do more for me?

I'd sure appreciate hearing your thoughts and experiences.

Thank you,
Fred

[Bob Jones]

A should plane is a type of rabbet plane. Any planes with an iron extending all the way to at least one edge is a rabbet plane. It's kinda like the square vs rhombus thing.

[Steve Voigt]

Hey Fred,

It depends what you want to do, and how you work. A rabbet plane excels at rapid stock removal, though it can also leave a nice surface. If you want to cut rabbets, or to rough out a moulding before you move to your hollows/rounds, you want a rabbet plane. Yes you can do those operations with a shoulder plane, but it is slow, and also not very comfortable compared to a nicely made rabbet plane. Here's a video of Matt Bickford (http://musingsfrombigpink.blogspot.com/2010/12/rabbet-plane_09.html) demonstrating both tools.

A shoulder plane is a trimming and finishing tool, typically used for trimming tenon shoulders, but it's often used for tenon cheeks and other cross-grain operations. If you cut your tenons on the table saw, you might find the shoulder plane very helpful.

I have two shoulder planes and haven't picked either one up in about two years. I trim tenons with a chisel. I cut rabbets with a rabbet plane. So, obviously I prefer the rabbet, but that doesn't mean anything if you work differently. Choose based on what you do.

If you want to make a plane though, I recommend that you make a rabbet, not a shoulder, unless you are planning to make an infill plane. Shoulder planes are metal planes. I know some people make bevel down planes bedded at 40°-ish, but I would consider those low-angle rabbet planes rather than shoulder planes. Wood rabbets are typically bedded at 50° or 55°; I'd recommend 50° for general purpose work.

Here's a post by Matt (http://musingsfrombigpink.blogspot.com/2012/05/making-rabbet-plane.html) about making a rabbet plane, and a little write-up (http://blackdogswoodshop.blogspot.com/2013/12/making-rabbet-plane.html) on my blog of the same.

[Frederick Skelly]

Hey Fred,

It depends what you want to do, and how you work. A rabbet plane excels at rapid stock removal, though it can also leave a nice surface. If you want to cut rabbets, or to rough out a moulding before you move to your hollows/rounds, you want a rabbet plane. Yes you can do those operations with a shoulder plane, but it is slow, and also not very comfortable compared to a nicely made rabbet plane. Here's a video of Matt Bickford (http://musingsfrombigpink.blogspot.com/2010/12/rabbet-plane_09.html) demonstrating both tools.

A shoulder plane is a trimming and finishing tool, typically used for trimming tenon shoulders, but it's often used for tenon cheeks and other cross-grain operations. If you cut your tenons on the table saw, you might find the shoulder plane very helpful.

I have two shoulder planes and haven't picked either one up in about two years. I trim tenons with a chisel. I cut rabbets with a rabbet plane. So, obviously I prefer the rabbet, but that doesn't mean anything if you work differently. Choose based on what you do.

If you want to make a plane though, I recommend that you make a rabbet, not a shoulder, unless you are planning to make an infill plane. Shoulder planes are metal planes. I know some people make bevel down planes bedded at 40°-ish, but I would consider those low-angle rabbet planes rather than shoulder planes. Wood rabbets are typically bedded at 50° or 55°; I'd recommend 50° for general purpose work.

Here's a post by Matt (http://musingsfrombigpink.blogspot.com/2012/05/making-rabbet-plane.html) about making a rabbet plane, and a little write-up (http://blackdogswoodshop.blogspot.com/2013/12/making-rabbet-plane.html) on my blog of the same.

Wow! Thanks for all the information Steve! This is VERY helpful!
Fred

[Frederick Skelly]

A should plane is a type of rabbet plane. Any planes with an iron extending all the way to at least one edge is a rabbet plane. It's kinda like the square vs rhombus thing.

Thanks Bob. I hadnt snapped to that!
Fred

[Jim Koepke]

Which you should build is really up to your needs.

Most of the time when it comes to rabbet planes my Record #778 comes to mind.

309452

This does a good job at removing material to create a rabbet. That would be a difficult job for a shoulder plane.

Often if there is need of a bit of refinement to a rabbet my shoulder plane may be used for that.

For tenons or lap joints on of my other rabbet planes may come into use.

Maybe if my memory works tomorrow a picture will be taken of various rabbet planes.

Again, maybe your projects could make use of a 3/4" rabbet plane. Most of the time my larger rabbet planes get used. Of course that is what my projects need.

Maybe make a dado plane or a dovetail plane. Only if it is something you would use.

jtk

[Patrick Harper]

Shoulder planes don't do very well at planing across grain, on their own. A rabbet plane usually has a nicker that severs the fibers before removing the waste.

[Prashun Patel]

I own both and find that I use the shoulder plane more. The only advantage for me of the rabbet plane is the wider surface; it's able to trim an entire tenon cheek in one pass. That being said, I find the shoulder has better ergonomics, registration and mass, so it cuts a precise trimming depth easier than my rabbet. After a little dado is trimmed with the shoulder, next to the shoulder of the tenon, it's quick work to clean up with a conventional, low angle block plane to get everything level and smooth. Honestly, I hardly even have to do that. I just make adjacent passes with the shoulder. A well-tuned shoulder plane just gives so much control, I feel like I use mine more like a chisel than a plane for micro-tweaking.
If the market is any indication, LN rabbet planes come on the market quite frequently. Shoulder planes, marginally less so.

[Judson Green]

I don't use the shoulder plane that much and thought I wouldn't so that was one of the reasons I made my own, a bevel down bedded at ~40°. Works fine on end grain, though I don't have a metal one to compare to. And the metal ones new or vintage are kinda pricey.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?208755-Shop-made-shoulder-plane

Don't currently own a rabbit plane but the vintage stuff is held in high regard and doesn't cost that much cabbage.

[Richard Line]

In a class with Matt Bickford the question of why not use a shoulder plane rather than a rabbet plane for making the rabbets before reaching for the moulding plane. Matt's answer (which I've found to be very true) is because the shoulder plane doesn't clear the shavings as well as the rabbet plane, and when your really trying to remove material that is important. With the shoulder plane, I find I'm having to clear the shaving on each pass; whereas with rabbet plane they pretty much spill out on their own.

[Steve Voigt]

I own both and find that I use the shoulder plane more. The only advantage for me of the rabbet plane is the wider surface; it's able to trim an entire tenon cheek in one pass. That being said, I find the shoulder has better ergonomics...

It's hard to know what kind of plane you are talking about here, since rabbet planes come in all sorts of widths. Perhaps you mean the type of "skew rabbet block plane" made by LN or LV, which bears almost no resemblance to a traditional rabbet plane.

A true metal rabbet plane, like the 778 Jim K showed, has a tote, so it ought to be more ergonomic than a shoulder plane, but I couldn't say for certain (not much experience with those). But for sure there is no comparison between a wooden rabbet and a metal shoulder plane--the former is far more ergonomic.

[Prashun Patel]

My apologies. I meant the rabbet BLOCK plane, specifically the LN rabbet blocking plane. Sorry. If OP's comparing a shoulder to the rabbet planes you speak of, I am out of my league.

[Kees Heiden]

The best solution, of course as always, is the double iron rabbet plane. Bulk removal with the capiron pulled back and smoothing with the capiron set close to the edge. Like the German Ulmia one: http://www.ulmia.de/English/Ulmia-Hobel_3.htm#Simshobel mit Doppeleisen

But I must confess, mine is still in the "to-do_pile".

[Jim Matthews]

I find myself drawn to an HNT Gordon 4/4 'shoulder' plane for rabbets, trimming, balancing tenons, etc.

Single iron, bedded at 60 degrees.
Wicked sharp and no so big I can't handle it.

Owned and sold the excellent Veritas versions - they just weren't for me.
Something about the woodies; you can really get over the blade and stay on track.

I always feel with the metal variants that I'm 'steering' them, and I have terrible aim.

I think it's the high bed angle that I like.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I use a LA rabbet block on cheeks [sometimes; face float other times]. I would not feel comfortable using it on the shoulders, tho...the shoulder plane is designed to do just that - narrow, large flat surface, lay it down on the tenon cheek. In my case, it is not about removing a lot of stock - there simply ain't that much to remove when trimming up the shoulders.

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Gives me plenty to ponder and I appreciate all the insights.

If I cant make up my mind, maybe I'll make one of each and test them against each other. :)

Ive got enough irons and enough Jatoba to do that.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Gives me plenty to ponder and I appreciate all the insights.

If I cant make up my mind, maybe I'll make one of each and test them against each other. :)

Ive got enough irons and enough Jatoba to do that.

Frederick - I have been torn about my large LN shoulder plane since I got it. Part of me says I should have gotten the medium for what I do, and the other part says "man up - you don't have any problems with it."

I think it comes down to the size of the tenons you will be tuning. In the end, the medium would fit better for what I do. Tell you what - you buy the LN medium, and I'll trade you my large for your medium plus a player to be named later..............

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks Kent. Yeah, I bought LV's Small shoulder at a Cyber Monday sale couple years ago. Keep thinking a medium might have been a better idea. That's another reason Im toying with making one.

[Tony Zaffuto]

For shoulder planes, I have a small Preston, about 7/16", a LV medium and a large LN. I find I use the large LN most of the time (whenever I can). The Preston is next and the LV sees the least use.

I use the large LN both pushing and pulling, and the size & weight is a real asset.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I use the large LN both pushing and pulling, and the size & weight is a real asset.

All true. I fell back in love with it after I read Derek's thing on his website about pulling, and how to hold it. Counterintuitive, but perfect, once you "get it".

[Jim Matthews]

The LN is 1 1/4" wide. Plenty of registry on a base that broad.

I'm also drawn to larger planes for this task.
The width makes it easier to see if I'm out of square.

[Tony Zaffuto]

The LN is 1 1/4" wide. Plenty of registry on a base that broad.

I'm also drawn to larger planes for this task.
The width makes it easier to see if I'm out of square.

Well said. Another use is for bringing a shooting board back to square, by running the large plane on its side. You then need to take a cut with your shooting plane to form the edge and Bob's your uncle.