School Shop Class Update

[Andrew Joiner]

Here's an update to this thread.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?222579-I-Need-Tips-for-my-Talk-to-a-School-Shop-Class

After telling my story about being a woodworker to my grandsons shop class I was inspired. My talk went OK and the teacher wanted me to come back and help out.
After an hour in the shop watching students work I was shocked. I saw a student named Ben face jointing a small part with no push block, just pushing down hard with his finger tips passing over the cutter-head. I explained to Ben the forces involved, that the stock could shatter or catch and kick out. He didn't seem to believe me. When I told him about a guy I knew who lost fingers to a jointer that way his eyes widened and I knew he got the message.

I asked the teacher if they had push blocks or safety rules on the jointer. Yes, but the students were told never to face joint at all. It was an ongoing problem. The teacher had talked safety over and over. Safety was talked about but quickly forgotten.

On my next visit I used that trick. We all stood at every machine and I told real life stories of how injuries happen. I have all my fingers, but I did break my thumb once on a radial arm saw. I showed them how it happened. I was in a hurry and not thinking. It was a freak accident and I was being stupid. It was clear the students would listen to real stories more than "here's the rules don't break them".

My safety tips were done, so I went to make some push blocks. I had to search for every tool and every tool I found was dull and abused. Of course, it's a school shop! My inspiration to help started to fade.

This school thing will be a real challenge for an old woodworker like me. I decided to finish the push blocks in my shop where everything is sharp and stored in place. It really made me appreciate having my own peaceful shop.

[Lee Schierer]

When I was in shop, the teacher would give a lecture on a power tool and the appropriate safety procedures. Before you could use that power tool you had to take a written test and pass with 100% right. If you were caught using the tool improperly or violating a safety protocol on it you lost the use of the power tool for a period of time and had to retake the test.

[mark kosse]

As a high school shop teacher I have to wonder at what your post is about. Do you feel the youth of our world is lacking or just our teachers. Maybe you just got a taste of what it is like to teach in the modern world and found it too tuff to tackle.

some of us work our butts off everyday to try to teach those who will learn.

it ain't easy...

[Bob Vavricka]

I taught high school industrial arts woodworking classes for 18 years. Safety tests were required on every machine and had to be passed at 100%. Then I required that I watch the first few times they used a machine. After that it was a matter of being alert when machines were in use. I never had a serious accident in the 18 years.
During that time another person taught a jr. High class of woodworking. He noticed a student joining narrow short stock without a push block and called over all the student for a safety talk. He then said "I never want to see anyone doing this" as he proceeded to joint a short narrow piece without a push block and cut off the first joint of two fingers. I figured that was an effective safety lesson. I don't think I would have allowed jr high students to use a jointer without close supervision.

[Andrew Joiner]

As a high school shop teacher I have to wonder at what your post is about. Do you feel the youth of our world is lacking or just our teachers. Maybe you just got a taste of what it is like to teach in the modern world and found it too tuff to tackle.

some of us work our butts off everyday to try to teach those who will learn.

it ain't easy...
Thanks for asking Mark. I'm just writing about my experience. I don't know that anything is lacking because I wasn't in on any of the original safety instructions. I do agree with you that it would be a HUGE challenge to be a teacher.

From the discussion threads here on safety I bet most creekers would be surprised at what I observed as I watched the students work. I guess that's why I posted.

Adults choosing to buy tools and use them are obviously going to care more and respect the whole process of woodworking. I was just amazed at the contrast between what we talk about here and what I saw. It's common here to have a newcomer ask about woodworking and have a sawstop recommended. Actually, I was surprised the school didn't have a sawstop. I was told the school doesn't spend any money on the woodshop, so again different than I pictured.

[Mike Schuch]

30 years ago when I was in shop class things weren't like that. Half of my grade was based on safety. The other half on the projects. Every tool had it place and every tool was accounted for at the end of class. One student was put in charge of making sure all the tools were in place at the end of the class for 1 week and the responsibility then rotated. I only took 1 year of woodworking and some tools were never turned on... like the table saw and jointer. Those were reserved for advanced classes. I thought it was ridiculous as a teenager but look back on it and it makes a lot of sense. A good teacher makes a huge difference!

[Matt Day]

From your account urbanites like the teacher isn't doing that great if a job. If face jointing is a constant battle, don't let them use the jointer as its only a matter of time until someone is hurt then it's likely the end of shop class for everyone. Paper tests and teacher supervision sound like the answer, as well as some gory pictures and/or real life accounts of what can happen.

It also sounds like some sharpening is in order for the whole shop. As we know a dull tool not safe.

I hope you stick with it since it sounds like they need you!

[Jim Andrew]

When I was in high school, our teacher had a general shop degree. What that meant was that he took one 3 hour course in woodworking in college. Talk about the blind leading the blind.

[Nick Stokes]

Can you imagine how hard it would be to find a person that can:

1. Teach basic woodworking safely to 100 kids a day, some who want to be there, but most who don't.
2. Professionally communicate with parents, administration, and community.
3. Properly follow the strict legal and educational paperwork guidelines established by the state.
4. Passionately participate in countless hours of Professional development/conferences/continuous improvement hours.
5. Run a safe/effective/functional/"SHARP" shop on a next to nothing budget.
6. At least in my State, it is required to have a bachelors degree, and about 18-24 additional college hours of pedagogy(How to teach) to receive a teaching certificate.
7. Have enough advanced knowledge of a wide range of woodworking tasks so you can "Simplify and Teach" important concepts in a variety of ways to match how each individual kid learns.
8. Have a plan in place to "modify" curriculum for students with special needs who will be in your class with no additional supervision.

Lets see, what else... Oh yea:

7. Possess the fortitude to do this, and much more, for less than what a Shift Manager at Home Depot gets paid.


I am not a shop teacher, but I am a professional educator. It is a very eye opening experience for members of the community to visit classrooms. I encourage you all to do so at some point.

Anyway, I hope OP continues to visit the class. But in all ways, I encourage you to be an ally to the teacher.

[Andrew Joiner]

It is a very eye opening experience for members of the community to visit classrooms. I encourage you all to do so at some point.

Anyway, I hope OP continues to visit the class. But in all ways, I encourage you to be an ally to the teacher.

Thanks Nick. You have a good grasp of what is needed and how tough it is. Being an ally to the the teacher as you suggested is what I started with and plan on doing.

From what Mike and Bob said I'm guessing the safety standards aren't the same at this school. Not being in on the original safety classes I can't say for sure. Not having visited other school shops I have nothing to compare to what is going on today.

The hard part for me is I thought a school shop would be overly safety conscious. I see now how hard a job teaching is. I wanted to be the "let's have fun being creative guy", but for now safety is first. I'll continue to be an ally to the teacher and a safety promoter.

The good part is the kids and teacher are grateful for me coming in and they want knowledge I share with them.

[Roy Turbett]

For six years I opened up my shop to church members and friends for woodworking and fellowship. Over that time, fifty six adults and teenagers attended at least one session and all received safety training before they could use a machine. I also made it clear to everyone that if they saw something unsafe they were to say something. I never worked on any of my own projects during that time so I could keep an eye on what everyone else was doing. I was very fortunate that no one was ever injured.

A year ago I suspended the sessions because I realized that even though no one was ever injured, there were accidents and near accidents. Most were at the tablesaw and most were by highly educated adults including two surgeons. And there was no difference between "experienced" woodworkers and newbes. I can see now why my shop teacher never let any of his students use the tablesaw and I started to do the same thing.

I recently traded my Unisaw for a Sawstop ICS but havn't decided whether I'll reopen the shop.

[Jim Andrew]

I taught shop for 2 years, got tired of fooling with the kids who only took shop because their parents insisted. The kids who wanted to be in shop were fun to work with. I spent most of my time monitoring the table saw, never thought of doing all the table saw cuts, but good idea. I did the cuts for kids who were afraid of the machine. I made most of the cuts on the bandsaw, many kids were afraid of it. I had a good career in house building, spent 30 years at it, and still enjoy woodworking.

[Jim Davis]

I took wood shop as an eighth grader back in 1961. I don't remember any safety instructions but I do recall two guys getting hurt--one of them in the high school woodshop class. The high school guy cut off the tip of a finger on a table saw and the other kid was pushing a block through a band saw using his fist to push. Just about the instant he realized that was a bad idea the saw broke through the wood and nicked him beside a knuckle. He just lost a few drops of blood.

We were all farm kids and I think we were just expected to have good sense. The only machines I used that year were a lathe, scroll saw and disk sander.

Some of us are wired from birth to be wary and suspicious. Most are not. That's why we need safety instruction in graphic terms.

I've told all my kids that if they ever put any part of their anatomy where a machine can get them, it WILL.

Jim

[Kent A Bathurst]

As a high school shop teacher I have to wonder at what your post is about. Do you feel the youth of our world is lacking or just our teachers. Maybe you just got a taste of what it is like to teach in the modern world and found it too tuff to tackle.

some of us work our butts off everyday to try to teach those who will learn.

it ain't easy...

When I was that age, I was 9 feet tall, bulletproof, and immortal. STHU about all that safety noise - gimme some wood, fire up the machines, let's rock 'n' roll. That mentality cannot have changed in the intervening decades.

Even when HS teachers are fluent in "cement-head", there will be a constant resistance.

Someday they will look back and laugh: "Yeah, Mr. Kosse harped on us about this. Surprising how much he knew".

Keep at it, Mark - right is right. You are on the side of the angels, with the future of our world in your hands.

"Once more unto the breach, dear friends. Once more. Or let them close up the wall with our English dead",

[Steve Peterson]

I had electronics class in high school. It was not much more than a "learning to solder" class with a few step by step kits to build with no explanation as to why it did something. One memory was the bridge rectifier with 120V AC exposed on wires. One kid slammed a screwdriver across the wires just to see the sparks fly. It left 2 big holes in the screwdriver. Years later, I still see electronics technicians charging capacitors to 400V and letting them sit on the bench for some unsuspecting person to pick up.

I can only imagine the kids in woodshop deliberately using the table saw or jointer as projectile launchers.

Steve

[Roger Feeley]

Slightly off topic: The only time I ever hit my wife was when she was using a chop saw. I swear I only looked away for a second and when I looked back, the saw was on and coming straight down for her thumb. Basically, I clocked her and saved the thumb. After a tense moment, she thanked me. I watch her better now.

I taught Industrial Arts for 8 years and that moment in my basement shop was the closest one of my charges ever came to an accident.

[Jim Sevey]

I think it's a shame that so many schools have shut these programs down either due to liability or budget. I very fondly remember high school wood shop classes. It gave a life long hobby and skills for the real world. I am the neighborhood fix-it guy and happy to help. Taught my sons woodworking and open my shop to anyone who wants to learn....on all the tools.

My my hat is off to all of you high school shop teachers. You have the opportunity to have an immense impact on the lives of at least some of your students. I would love to volunteer at a high school shop. If there was an opportunity.

[Keith Hankins]

What a lucky man you are! I would gladly quit my job now in corp America to go back and do that!

I work in manufacturing and another tactic that works is encouraging their class members to look out for one another.

Create reward programs for seeing safety violations, call them out not to tattle but to help one another. I could be as simple as extra time on a machine or privleges.

I know our shop teacher had a reward system that if you spotted a safety issue which most of the time was safety glass usage, you would get to spend more time in another area of the shop. For me that was awesome.

The offender was not punished, but was talked to and as a class we stopped what was going on and took a knee to discuss the infraction, and the offender was taken back to classroom retrained on safety retested to get their shop certification card (right to leave the shop classroom and go into the shop (greatest feeling). If that got revoked you felt horrible being left behind while the rest of the glass went to get to use those cool tools!

It worked. I know I only got called out once for not wearing my welding beanie, and it was something I never did again. (BTW I never told my shop teacher that a piece of slag few up and over my face shield and landed on top of my hair. Lets just say it was a hot lesson and I learned why you wear the beanie!)

All I can say is to this day when I finish a piece of furniture, and I've come a long way since then (i'm an old man), the first thing I think of is "I hope Gus would be proud"

He's long past on, but in my thoughts often. You to will have that impact on those young ones too! Enjoy your opportunity.

[Paul Wunder]

55 years ago I went to a specialized high school in NY city that was primarily for college bound pre-engineering students. We took many shop classes to help us appreciate the nuts and bolts of what we might design someday.

We were all hot shots and thought we knew it all when it came to safety. My first shop teacher got our attention by simply saying that if we cut ourselves in his class: We Will Fail His Class.

That comment got our attention. We also all learned to carry our own band-aids.

[Bob Carreiro]

I read the posts and wonder if times have changed.

I went to a vocational HS (Diman Reg. Voc. HS, Fall River, MA, class of 70). We alternated 2 wks shop, 2 wks academics for 4 yrs. Never saw bad accidents. For first 2 yrs, no machinery - all hand tools (we mastered them one by one). Machinery was big - 36" Planer, 12" Jointer, 5HP Shaper (no feeder), etc., oh ya, no blade guard on the TS either, never mind a arriving knife! :) What helped back then, first, most students WANTED to be there and learn, but also, and most importantly, there were shop trade theory classes during the academic wks! These were 2 hrs classes 5 days a week: from trees, sawing & drying, to hand tools, power tools, then machinery, we learned them all - safety, safety, safety! Also, always in the shop were 2 old time woodworking instructors - 1 for 9-10 graders, 1 for 11-12 graders (shop was big). This allowed for close eyes on students and machinery by both teachers since half of the students had no business near machinery - though occasionally, the teacher would let a 10th grader "drop" his hand, face-planed board on the planer bed to "test" how truly flat the face was!

I remember those years well and am thankful I received such training. Although most my working career was not woodworking, in most shops I have worked (6 or 7), it was SO obvious few had formal training, and worse, most didn't want to change their ways! From what I read on this and other forums, there seems to be a more safety-conscience work force. Do you agree?

[Bob Carreiro]

I read the posts and wonder if times have changed.

I went to a vocational HS (Diman Reg. Voc. HS, Fall River, MA, class of 70). We alternated 2 wks shop, 2 wks academics for 4 yrs. Never saw bad accidents. For first 2 yrs, no machinery - all hand tools (we mastered them one by one). Machinery was big - 36" Planer, 12" Jointer, 5HP Shaper (no feeder), etc., oh ya, no blade guard on the TS either, never mind a arriving knife! :) What helped back then, first, most students WANTED to be there and learn, but also, and most importantly, there were shop trade theory classes during the academic wks! These were 2 hrs classes 5 days a week: from trees, sawing & drying, to hand tools, power tools, then machinery, we learned them all - safety, safety, safety! Also, always in the shop were 2 old time woodworking instructors - 1 for 9-10 graders, 1 for 11-12 graders (shop was big). This allowed for close eyes on students and machinery by both teachers since half of the students had no business near machinery - though occasionally, the teacher would let a 10th grader "drop" his hand, face-planed board on the planer bed to "test" how truly flat the face was!

I remember those years well and am thankful I received such training. Although most my working career was not woodworking, in most shops I have worked (6 or 7), it was SO obvious few had formal training, and worse, most didn't want to change their ways! From what I read on this and other forums, there seems to be a more safety-conscience work force. Do you agree?

[Keith Hankins]

I read the posts and wonder if times have changed.

I went to a vocational HS (Diman Reg. Voc. HS, Fall River, MA, class of 70). We alternated 2 wks shop, 2 wks academics for 4 yrs. Never saw bad accidents. For first 2 yrs, no machinery - all hand tools (we mastered them one by one). Machinery was big - 36" Planer, 12" Jointer, 5HP Shaper (no feeder), etc., oh ya, no blade guard on the TS either, never mind a arriving knife! :) What helped back then, first, most students WANTED to be there and learn, but also, and most importantly, there were shop trade theory classes during the academic wks! These were 2 hrs classes 5 days a week: from trees, sawing & drying, to hand tools, power tools, then machinery, we learned them all - safety, safety, safety! Also, always in the shop were 2 old time woodworking instructors - 1 for 9-10 graders, 1 for 11-12 graders (shop was big). This allowed for close eyes on students and machinery by both teachers since half of the students had no business near machinery - though occasionally, the teacher would let a 10th grader "drop" his hand, face-planed board on the planer bed to "test" how truly flat the face was!

I remember those years well and am thankful I received such training. Although most my working career was not woodworking, in most shops I have worked (6 or 7), it was SO obvious few had formal training, and worse, most didn't want to change their ways! From what I read on this and other forums, there seems to be a more safety-conscience work force. Do you agree?

I'm with you, there always more applied than got accepted into shop! We wanted to be there. There were a few that got weeded out soon. We started with the forge and black smithing. That was the greatest. I still have that bolt totally made by hand some where. Then we did hand tools, then power tools and welding. Sadly we only got a year. Gus retired not long after I graduated and they discontinued the program. Sad really.

Times change but humans don't. We need to be taught. A good teacher will light a fire in you, just as a bad one will put that fire out. The biggest change when you and I went to school, America still made things. Saddly, my generation, graduated 81, and it was in full bloom then. We were told the only way to get out (grew up in coal town) was to go to college. I know now if you come out of highschool and have a trade like a machinist, they are in high demand but thats few and far between.

I remember southside va was full of furniture factories, and clothing factories. All are gone. I even gave up my passion and went for the college degree and corp life. Looking back not sure it was worth it, but it paid to raise my family so can't complain too much.

Cheers!