Are Neoprene BS Tires really better than rubber tires?

[ken masoumi]

I need new tires for my (Taiwanese) 14" bandsaw ,the original tires were too loose and were causing all kinds of problems.I know many woodworkers upgrade to Neoprene tires when it's time to replace the old ones but don't know exactly why this is considered an upgrade,the price difference between rubber vs neoprene is negligible, so why not stick with the type of tires that are tried and true?
The reason I'm hesitating to upgrade to neoprene is :they are thinner than rubber,have to be stretched to fit,do not cover the width of the wheel track,the only thing that is plus with them is, they last longer.
So if you were to change your bandsaw tires Today,would you order Neoprene ? does it really matter which type you put on the wheels?
Please let me know what you would choose and why.
Thank you.

[John TenEyck]

Do you perhaps mean urethane? Neoprene is a type of rubber.

John

[Rich Riddle]

Rubber is superior, but not easier to place on the wheel. I have replaced many band saw tires for people and the non-rubber ones always deteriorate faster than rubber. Many people don't like the extra effort installing rubber requires.

[ken masoumi]

Do you perhaps mean urethane? Neoprene is a type of rubber.

John
I actually was asking about Neoprene,the place I order bandsaw parts is called R & D Bandsaw (http://www.tufftooth.com/) and they sell both rubber and Neoprene .but now that you mentioned Urethane I realized I was thinking they were the same ,my bad.
So the question should be revised: are the Urethane tires any better than rubber tires?

[jack forsberg]

Neoprene tires are a gimmick for small saws

Saws you'll never see them on the large saws. If you're looking for the best you want vulcanized rubber tires

[ken masoumi]

Neoprene tires are a gimmick for small saws

Saws you'll never see them on the large saws. If you're looking for the best you want vulcanized rubber tires
Jack I'm ordering the rubber tires from R&D,they are most likely the vulcanized rubber you are talking about.



Rubber is superior, but not easier to place on the wheel. I have replaced many band saw tires for people and the non-rubber ones always deteriorate faster than rubber. Many people don't like the extra effort installing rubber requires.
Rich,according to the manufacturer they are supposedly made 30% smaller than the size of the wheels "to assure tight fit and ease of installation"
I have never done this before but have seen the installation on youtube ,do you have any tips :

[David Utterback]

Urethane tires do not fit all wheels; they would not stay on my old 18" Laguna. Do your wheels have lips at the edges that the tires fit between? There are differences in the quality of rubber used in the tires but I only have the experience of 2 vendors.

One of the biggest differences between urethane and rubber is the latter must be crowned. I was most successful with this operation using a rasp. I used a lot of coarse sandpaper trying that method which failed probably due to user error. Also, vendors recommend soaking urethane tires in hot water to make them stretch easier. I would caution against that method unless your wheels are not prone to rust.

[ken masoumi]

Great info David,thank you,the wheels on my bandsaw do have "lips" at the edges,the rubber tires that are on them are flat 1.1/4" wide,I just saw a good video on how install these tires ,soaking them in hot water is highly recommended,fortunately the wheels are not cast iron,they are cast aluminum .
Thank you all,I am going to order the rubber tires and see how it goes.

[Michael W. Clark]

Vulcanized rubber should be a lot tougher, but probably depends on the specifics of the tire.

My Delta 14" came with some type of plastic-like tire. This stuff was not very good. The top tire just came apart at the seam recently. I had already replaced the lower tire with one from Carter (blue one - urethane). It was not sized properly and did not go all the way across the wheel and was very thin. I just replaced both with some from amazon. http://www.amazon.com/URETHANE-BAND-TIRES-WIDE-DIAMETER/dp/B000H69UKI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1426638870&sr=8-1&keywords=bandsaw+tires

They are the right width and fit snug. With a couple of spring clamps and a flat blade screw driver, no heating is needed or desired. Just muscle it on. Sure runs smoother than before, but I have only had them for about a week.

[Rich Riddle]

For crowning tires, go to OWWM and see their threads on it, they're extensive. Tips for rubber. I simply use dowels and glue. If you send a message with your e-mail address, I will forward an article on how to do this that Mr. Vaughn wrote for Fine Woodworking in 1992. It's still the same method.

[jack forsberg]

Jack I'm ordering the rubber tires from R&D,they are most likely the vulcanized rubber you are talking abou




no R&D sale carter glue on tires not the same thing . Vlcanized in heated rubber fused to the whell and then crowned true so the band tracks .way thicker than the tires you glue on

http://www.harwoodrubber.com/rubber-rings-belts-wheel-applications.html

[Myk Rian]

I use urethane tires. They stretch on tightly. (You have to heat them up in 140º water).
The only reason they would fail is the tension is set too high. But then again, any tire will fail like that.

[ken masoumi]

Well,I ordered the rubber tires already,they are not crowned ,neither are the wheels , the bandsaw always ran quietly and tracked perfectly so there's no need to actually crown them but I would have prefered if they were crowned .this youtube video seems to be exactly the what I need to do with my bandsaw:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgzWFtI015o
Rich,thank you for the offer to help,I sent you a pm.

[Phil Thien]

Are you sure those wheels aren't crowned? The crown would be very slight.

If I had an old Northfield or Crescent bandsaw, I'd absolutely send the wheels out to be re-vulcanized (if they needed it). For an import saw of the 14" variety, well, neoprene really is ideal.

The link Mike posted to Amazon is a seller name Sulpher Grove, which does a top-notch job on neoprene tires. I've used SG tires on maybe six or seven bandsaw rebuilds and have been very happy.

[Doug Ladendorf]

Rubber tires that don't require glue or crowning? Let us know how it goes.

Look for a YouTube video by Keith Rucker on installing and crowning band saw tires to see the standard rubber tires.

[ken masoumi]

Rubber tires that don't require glue or crowning? Let us know how it goes.




Are you sure those wheels aren't crowned? The crown would be very slight.

I was too upset with the tires slipping/coming off the wheels in the middle of the cut,I did not examine the wheels carefully to verify if they are crowned or not,I'm going to the shop right now to check the wheels ,to be honest I'll be very disappointed if they do not have a crowning.

[Frank Drew]

.

If I had an old Northfield or Crescent bandsaw, I'd absolutely send the wheels out to be re-vulcanized (if they needed it).

I sent the wheels from my 192-D back to Oliver to have new tires mounted; as I remember it, they said that they used shellac as a glue, at least sometimes if not regularly.

FWIW, they also said that easing up on the band's tension at the end of each work day could add years to the useful life of the tires.

[ken masoumi]

Are you sure those wheels aren't crowned? The crown would be very slight.

.
I just checked ,the wheels are crowned after all but a very slight crown,you have go by feeling with your fingers to notice the bump.I still may have to crown the tires.The article that Rich Riddle sent me has a good section on how to do this with a die grinder/router bit ,great article,lots of pictures,thank you Richard.

[jack forsberg]

I just checked ,the wheels are crowned after all but a very slight crown,you have go by feeling with your fingers to notice the bump.I still may have to crown the tires.The article that Rich Riddle sent me has a good section on how to do this with a die grinder/router bit ,great article,lots of pictures,thank you Richard.
even Bob V does not recommend the routor bit any more. You could ask him why FWW had him edit that article but i think it had something to do the the bit ripping the tire off. Grinding is the trade standard. I used my disk sander and have used a chisel too as scraper
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/014.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/014.jpg.html)


http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/019.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/019.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/023.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/023.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/032.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/032.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/034.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/034.jpg.html)

if the wheels are less that 24" i dress them on the Wadkin Wood lathe.

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/speedax2003_zpsd701e008.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/speedax2003_zpsd701e008.jpg.html)

and on the disk sander

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/IMG_0013-1.jpg

[Phil Thien]

even Bob V does not recommend the routor bit any more. Grinding is the trade standard. I used my disk sander and have used a chisel too as scraper

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/017.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/017.jpg.html)


http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/019.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/019.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/023.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/023.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/032.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/032.jpg.html)

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/034.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/034.jpg.html)

How did you do the top one?

[jack forsberg]

How did you do the top one? I put it on the bottom drive

[ken masoumi]

Thanks for the pics Jack,I remember you even repaired a tire with a some rubber compound and used chisel to crown it onced it was cured .

[jack forsberg]

Thanks for the pics Jack,I remember you even repaired a tire with a some rubber compound and used chisel to crown it onced it was cured .
Ya that was the Speed Ax wood metal saw. but i used the cross slide and made a special tool point in colbolt tool steel i had around. I am not sure what is in rubber as a filler but its hard on steel . By far the best way to true and crown is on a lathe like i did for these sander wheels


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPuwhATzTNc

[Rich Riddle]

I use a grinder. It works the best of all the jigs in the shop.

309445

Here is another method posted but no experience with it:

309446

I always glue the rubber tires.

[Mel Miller]

That chisel setup looks like an accident waiting to happen. Just a slight inward movement and it would catch and dig in the way I see it.

[jack forsberg]

That chisel setup looks like an accident waiting to happen. Just a slight inward movement and it would catch and dig in the way I see it.

you would think but rubber is odd to mill and you have to push into it with cutting tools for it to cut and it springs back when your done.

for whats its worth the saw run real fine now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYVqoiWFeBg

[David Utterback]

Indeed. My learning curve for crowning with a lathe chisel included many divots in the drive wheel tire. I did not have enough hands to use it on the top wheel. My own experience is that the rasp worked great and took very little time, even on the top wheel which was rotated by hand. Just clamp a short piece of lumber to the saw frame to support it above the center point and spin away. You do not need a quality rasp to cut the rubber.


That chisel setup looks like an accident waiting to happen. Just a slight inward movement and it would catch and dig in the way I see it.

[jack forsberg]

Indeed. My learning curve for crowning with a lathe chisel included many divots in the drive wheel tire. I did not have enough hands to use it on the top wheel. My own experience is that the rasp worked great and took very little time, even on the top wheel which was rotated by hand. Just clamp a short piece of lumber to the saw frame to support it above the center point and spin away. You do not need a quality rasp to cut the rubber.
lots of ways to do it but i used a scraper HSS with a special grind not a chisel sharpened for wood and have done so on 4 bandsaws. do what you feel is best for you. The point to doing this or jigging with a fixed/held grinder or tool steel is the rubber is dressed true concentric to the bearings as well as being crowned. Holding sand paper and a rasp to a wheel does nothing to true the tire to the bearings or to correct run out in the rim. More to a fine running band saw than a blade that tracks on new rubber.