Small rip saw recommendations?

[Daniel Rode]

I make no apologies, I make long and/or repetitive rips on the table saw. But for short cuts and one-off cuts, I prefer to use a hand saw.

My 7/8 tip rip saw is too large and coarse for this work and a backsaw is not ideal for anything over a few inches long. What I keep thinking is how nice it would be to have a small rip saw in the 10-12 TPI range. Perhaps something under 18" long.

I'd really prefer something vintage. Did such saws exist? Am I better off just looking for a panel saw?

[ken hatch]

I make no apologies, I make long and/or repetitive rips on the table saw. But for short cuts and one-off cuts, I prefer to use a hand saw.

My 7/8 tip rip saw is too large and coarse for this work and a backsaw is not ideal for anything over a few inches long. What I keep thinking is how nice it would be to have a small rip saw in the 10-12 TPI range. Perhaps something under 18" long.

I'd really prefer something vintage. Did such saws exist? Am I better off just looking for a panel saw?

Dan,

There is a reason for the machines and like you I make no apologies for using them for the scut work.

Your post made me remember a couple of small saws in my too large pile of saws waiting for rehab. I expect they may still be there years from now :o.

I'm not sure what make the top one is but the bottom is an Atkins. Both are about 500mm or 20" for those still stuck in the foot, yard, stone world.

ken

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/sawsSmall20150317_zpsfjby0g0t.jpg

[John Vernier]

I looked quickly at the Disstonian Institute website, and it seems that Disston offered rip saws no finer than 7 tpi, and no shorter than 20" (before the listings for the 1918 catalog they didn't specify rip vs crosscut as such). I think that this at least offers you a snapshot of what they considered a practical minimum size and coarseness generally needed for rip saws.

Like you, I use a table saw for much of my ripping, and I never find that I wish for something really fine in the way of a rip handsaw, since speed is always a virtue in a rip cut as far as I'm concerned, and a hand sawn surface always gets planed, virtually without exception. You might see if regularizing the set of your current saw (by stoning, for instance) might make for a cleaner cut without sacrificing quickness of cut.

Otherwise, if you want a really fine rip saw you shouldn't waste time searching for an old one, as you will be lucky to turn one up. Even 7 tpi ripsaws are scarce in my experience. You might as well find a fine crosscut and reshape the teeth.

[Andrae Covington]

I have a 22" Disston #7 7-ppi rip saw which I use for ripping and resawing. I agree they can be difficult to find. If you do go the route of refiling a crosscut panel saw, I would keep the teeth small, as large teeth in the thin sawplates typical on crosscut saws have a tendency to buckle in heavy ripsawing, at least in my amateur experience (I am no great sawyer, to be sure).

Lie-Nielsen sells 20" 7-ppi rip panel saws, and Lee Valley sells Wenzloff 20" 6-tpi rip panel saws. Perhaps some of the other premium backsaw makers also sell panel saws and would file them with small rip teeth to your specs.

[Daniel Rode]

Thanks! I appreciate the tips.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I do have a small rip saw, which I'll have to look later to see if there is a maker's name, but it looks like someone hit a panel saw with a shrinking ray and shrunk it 1/2 size. It is not a new one. It has quickly become my "go-to" saw.

If you want to spend the $ for a "boutique saw" (I hate the term, but love the saws) try one of Bontz's 1/2 back saws. It might give you the best of both worlds- stiffness of a saw with a spine, but the through-cutting ability of a panel saw. I ordered a blade only from him and he turned it out in a few days. I was very impressed also with his communication and his recommendations based on what I wanted to do with the saw. Much better than the 9+ months I waited for a sawblade from another well-known maker who never returned numerous calls and emails.

KEN HATCH: That top saw almost looks like someone cut down a Diston panel saw and refiled it with a finer tooth pattern.

[Kim Malmberg]

Daniel
Not sure how easily you can find smaller saws where you live, but despite owning around 30 sharpened and useable saws I tend to use my small panel saws the most. I have four or five, filed everywhere between 9 and 12 PPI and ranging from 18 to 20 inches. They are all vintage saws and are extremely versatile as most of them can be used both for ripping and crosscutting smaller stock. Not saying you can't buy new saws but if you can find a 18 inch panel saw around 10 PPI I think you'd find it very useful for a lot less money. You could even shorten it if you wanted to. You could also turn your short saw into a halfback saw by adding a spine from a backsaw whenever needed.

[Shawn Pixley]

The RB Half back saws look very appealing for these sorts of things.

[Daniel Rode]

On a fluke, I bid on a saw this AM. It's an 18" 10 tpi in decent condition. It's listed as a Pennsylvania Saw Co. brand. Probably an inexpensive saw when new. I'm confident I can clean up the little bit of rust and get it into solid user condition. The seller had it listed as a rip saw, but to me it looks like a crosscut that will need to be refiled as rip.

Looks like a good saw to lean sharpening and I'm not out anything if I mess it up :)

It's item #171715891884 is anyone is interested in seeing the pictures.

[lowell holmes]

Your on the right track.

If you have a cross cut saw that is redundant and you don't use, you can do what I did.

Frid sharpened all of his saws rip. I took his cue and had one of my 10 tpi cc saws sharpened 10 tpi rip.
If you want a shorter saw than one you modify, you can cut of to the length you desire.
If you desire more of a panel saw feel, make a new handle for it to panels saw dimensions.

If you want to learn to sharpen a saw, I suggest you download Ron Herman's video on sharpening handsaws. Popular Woodworking has the download.

[Mike Holbrook]

I like the HB (half back) I built from a Wenzloff kit. It may take quite a while to get one of those kits though. Sometimes Lee Valley stocks Wenzloff HB saws. Ron Bontz makes an excellent HB but they are expensive and you will wait probably 6-8 months to get one, unless you find something he made that has not been bought yet, which is rare. HB saws are difficult to find and usually quite expensive on the auction sites. You can even get Wenzloff to sharpen the plate for you before they ship it and they do a very good job. The other possibility that comes to mind is one of the smaller saws Disston built for children/smaller people to use. I have one that is 18" I think.

[lowell holmes]

Ron Bontz can provide a kit or a saw.

[Mike Holbrook]

I did not know Ron does kits. I wonder what the lead time is on those?

[lowell holmes]

I suggest you make a pm to Ron and ask him what is available.

I recently made a tenon saw from components Ron sold me. There is a string in this forum showing the saw.

[Judson Green]

Do you have a set? I cant recall.

Perhaps someone with more experience will chime in, but I'd be careful filing/setting the teeth with the pitting, might be brittle. The pitting on the body, just smooth out with sandpaper as best ya can, should be OK. Paraffin is also a friend on saws, especially ones without much set or that are a little kinky/crooked.

[Daniel Rode]

I don't have a set but I intend to buy one (or 2) this spring. Thanks for the warning. We'll see if it needs set and how brittle it is when it arrives. It's a vanadium steel blade, so *I think* it's supposed to hold and edge longer but is also more ductile that typical saw steel.

[John Vernier]

The saw you bought seems to be in pretty decent shape. I doubt the areas pitting will give you much trouble- but as you said, you aren't out much if it's a bust.

[Winton Applegate]

The Japanese pull saw is not vintage but is rip, fairly coarse and under 18". I had to refile the teeth from a combo to a full on rip but that was pretty easy.
Then there is the saw in the second photo . . . a small what I call "plywood" saw but it is longer than 18" and finer teeth but has rip teeth.

[Peter Evans]

You can always cut down a longer saw. This started life as a 1950/60s Great Neck 26" 8 ppi xcut saw with a plastic handle; with a nasty kink and rusty, also well overset, so with a few broken teeth (overpriced at around $0.50). Now it is an 11 ppi rip saw 16.5" long (I ground off the original teeth and re-toothed). Good for bench work. Usually I do 0° to 5° rake for rip saws, this one is 12° for smoother cutting at the bench. Plate is nicely tapered in width and length, hard to find in modern saws.
309453
The handle is an experiment, a few weak spots are evident, but fits my hand well - the next handle this style will be better (I hope!). By the way the wood is Silky Oak, saw screws are the originals, nickel plated steel (nickel gone, rust removed).

Has anyone else rehandled one of these plastic ones? The angle of the saw plate is steeply angled, making handle design tricky.

Cheers
Peter

[Michael Ray Smith]

My 7/8 tip rip saw is too large and coarse for this work and a backsaw is not ideal for anything over a few inches long. What I keep thinking is how nice it would be to have a small rip saw in the 10-12 TPI range. Perhaps something under 18" long.

I'd really prefer something vintage. Did such saws exist? Am I better off just looking for a panel saw?

Buy a vintage crosscut saw with the length and tooth count you want and resharpen it for ripping. If you haven't tackled saw sharpening yet, this is a good reason to start.

[Jim Matthews]

It's a vanadium steel blade, so *I think* it's supposed to hold and edge longer but is also more ductile that typical saw steel.

I'm no metallurgist, but that sounds backwards exactly.
My Scandi Orsa saws are very hard steel that take forever to sharpen.

The plates are difficult to bend, and so are their teeth.
(Only crosscut saws in my shop, and they cut like stink through a theater.)

[Winton Applegate]

Peter,

You can always cut down a longer saw.
That's a really great idea !
Thanks
Good job.

[Winton Applegate]

Jim,

Scandi Orsa saws
Any chance you could put up a photo of one or both ?
So I can see what that is.
Or a link. Do they still make them or are they vintage ?

[Daniel Rode]

My information may be wrong or just dated. Popular Mechanics June 1909 (https://books.google.com/books?id=h-ADAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA554&lpg=PA554&dq=vanadium+steel+saw+popular&source=bl&ots=REXZERbkX3&sig=VtB6999YEDj-7pLtJVRgCzpniIE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=93cLVemKI82oyATJoYCAAQ&ved=0CE0Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=vanadium%20steel%20saw%20popular&f=false) is one reference. Another I can't find now mentioned vanadium steel being more ductile. It makes sense that it might be harder to sharpen but hold an edge longer.

I'm no metallurgist, but that sounds backwards exactly.
My Scandi Orsa saws are very hard steel that take forever to sharpen.

The plates are difficult to bend, and so are their teeth.
(Only crosscut saws in my shop, and they cut like stink through a theater.)