Carcass Saw

[Rich Riddle]

I have a few good vintage rip and crosscut saws from Mr. Allen and am now looking for a carcass saw to add. Any recommendations on a carcass saw? What information should one consider when getting one.

[Winton Applegate]

I too need to learn about these. I just have new stuff but . . . really . . . that would be my first choice for another woodworking tool. Not that I need one but I would really enjoy using a vintage back saw.

[Frederick Skelly]

Sorry Rich, but I wasnt sure if you're looking for an old saw or a new one?

[Rich Riddle]

Sorry Rich, but I wasnt sure if you're looking for an old saw or a new one?

Either works. I enjoy both new and vintage tools.

[Bob Snyder - Austin]

I'm shopping for one, too. Right now I'm leaning towards the LN saw, maybe the tapered variety.

[lowell holmes]

I have both LN carcass saws, rip and crosscut. They are great saws. I also have a Disston 4 crosscut made in the middle of last century that I use more and more. It is really a sweet saw.

[Frederick Skelly]

Ive been eyeballing a kit that Grammercy Tools sells for about $140. It's gotten favorable comments here and elsewhere.

[Derrell W Sloan]

I'm very very happy with my Veritas carcass saws

[Stewie Simpson]

Traditionally terminology. Carcass Saws were used for x grain work only. That was its primary difference to other backsaws.

[Reinis Kanders]

Veritas is a good deal and works well. Gramercy one looks better, but cuts maybe a little better, but is 2x cost. Old saws seem to have gotten expensive on ebay.
I usually favor my tiny Veritas dovetail crosscut saw for quick cuts, just feels right.

[Jim Matthews]

Something around 16" long, with at least 3 1/2" of plate depth.
That large, a steel back is better - brass that long is heavy.

If you're looking for vintage, Disston made lots in this size
as companions to small wooden miter boxes.

FWIW - If I'm cutting something large enough to need that much saw,
a fine tooth panel saw is plenty, easier to handle and less expensive.

Most of my 'final' sawing to get close on joinery is done with a smaller 10" backsaw, filed rip.
I can't even tell you how many TPI - the teeth are so small.

I would suggest that the larger Backsaws are nice additions, but not essential to most kits.

[Daniel Rode]

I have the Veritas as well. Great saw. I couldn't be happier.

I'm very very happy with my Veritas carcass saws

[Prashun Patel]

Not to hijack the thread here, but I am looking for a good general purpose joinery saw. Should I be looking at a 'carcass', 'crosscut' or 'tenon' style saw?

[Marc Seguin]

I have the pair of Veritas carcass saws in crosscut and rip. So far those are my only backsaws and I've used them for all the joinery on my projects thusfar. I can see maybe adding the 14tpi dovetail saw in the future for tiny boxes and drawers. I don't see much need for the tenon saw, as bigger tenons can be done with a rip panel saw.

[Daniel Rode]

I'm no expert, so take this for what it cost you :)

How you work has some bearing on what you need. I'm a hybrid woodworker, so that affects what I use most. If you religiously mark crosscuts with a knife, it's pretty easy to work with 1 saw filed for rip. A 12-16 TPI carcass size rip saw works well enough for tenons, dovetails, shoulders and crosscutting to length.

That said, I use my carcass (x-cut) more than any other saw. I have a dedicated dovetail saw that is nice for it's small size and a tenon (rip) saw that doesn't get much use. I mostly rough out my tenons on the table saw and finish with a router plane, so I don't need a tenon saw often.

If I wanted to saw tenons by hand, I'd probably want a rip saw with a somewhat coarser tooth pattern. 11-12 TPI, maybe?


Not to hijack the thread here, but I am looking for a good general purpose joinery saw. Should I be looking at a 'carcass', 'crosscut' or 'tenon' style saw?

[Bob Snyder - Austin]

Something around 16" long, with at least 3 1/2" of plate depth.
That large, a steel back is better - brass that long is heavy.
.

So you're suggesting something bigger like a xcut tenon saw instead of the smaller carcass saw?

[Brian Holcombe]

Not to hijack the thread here, but I am looking for a good general purpose joinery saw. Should I be looking at a 'carcass', 'crosscut' or 'tenon' style saw?

Carcass saws generally are crosscut and tenon saws are generally rip filed back saws.

I have a dovetail saw (rip), crosscut saw, and large 'thin plate' tenon saw. Occasionally I do use the full depth of the tenon saw but I could do well with a shorter tenon saw and I would not chose the thin plate a second time.

The taller the plate is the more it's going to require a very steady hand, so for work which does not require a deep saw I do not use one.

I have designs on a saw to round out my collection, and my plan is to have a short tenon saw made with a pistol grip and a very aggressive tooth around 10 TPI

[Prashun Patel]

Brian-
I currently own only a 20tpi Dovetail saw and a fine Dozuki.

What Western style saw should I get next. I'm not yet up to ripping. I just want to be able to efficiently cut tenons and cross cut parts to size.

[Brian Holcombe]

Are you talking tenon shoulders?

Sorry its not an easy answer, if you are talking tenon cheeks you're looking for two saws one for ripping the tenon and another for crosscutting the shoulder and also small parts.

[lowell holmes]

Well, actually if you follow the spirit of this group, you must have one of each. :)

[Curt Putnam]

Brian-
I currently own only a 20tpi Dovetail saw and a fine Dozuki.

What Western style saw should I get next. I'm not yet up to ripping. I just want to be able to efficiently cut tenons and cross cut parts to size.
I would suggest a close look at the pair of Lee Valley carcass saws. They come as 1 filed rip and 1 filed x-cut for the pair. Discount if you buy the pair. Probably the most dollar efficient move you can make short of scoring vintage steals. The LV saws are a matched pair so they handle the same which is good for noobs like me.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Brian-
I currently own only a 20tpi Dovetail saw and a fine Dozuki.

What Western style saw should I get next. I'm not yet up to ripping. I just want to be able to efficiently cut tenons and cross cut parts to size.


Dovetail saws are rip. I gotta tell you - 20tpi is one darn fine-point blade. I have a 15.

On the saw types - Brian explained that well. However, it seems to me that, anymore, the labels carcass and tenon denote size. Bad Axe has both in rip and crosscut, so I kinda think the traditional monikers have gotten muddled.

For tenons, you need a rip and a crosscut. So - you might need 2, actually.

Crosscut for the shoulders. Dunno if your dovetail saw has enough depth to do the tenon cheeks you plan on or not. But, @ 20 tpi you will be hacking away at it for a while............

I like the LN because they are really good saws, and I have no interest at this time in learning how to sharpen. LN has a lifetime $25 sharpening fee.............

[Daniel Rode]

I have a Veritas 20pt dovetail. It's more aggressive and faster than one would imagine. It's great for thin stock. It's a bit slow in 3/4"+ but not too terrible. I don't cut many larger than 1/2", so it's been fine so far. Eventually, I hope I'll find a decent vintage dovetail saw in 14-16pt range.

If I had it to do over, I'd have bought the 14pt saw instead.

Dovetail saws are rip. I gotta tell you - 20tpi is one darn fine-point blade. I have a 15.

[Joe A Faulkner]

Brian-
I currently own only a 20tpi Dovetail saw and a fine Dozuki.

What Western style saw should I get next. I'm not yet up to ripping. I just want to be able to efficiently cut tenons and cross cut parts to size.

I think you have to at least consider the bad axe hybrid: http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/12-inch-hybrid-dovetail-small-tenon-back-saw.php

[Paul Sidener]

I have been very happy with the LN tapered carcass saw.

[Rich Riddle]

I think you have to at least consider the bad axe hybrid: http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/12-inch-hybrid-dovetail-small-tenon-back-saw.php

Great looking saw but lots of choices.

[Ron Bontz]

Take this with a grain of salt.
1) Consider what you really think you are going to be cutting and tenon depths you are most likely to cut as well as what you wish to spend.
2) Most "carcass saws" are 11" to 12" long and 2" to 3" under spine and 0.020" to 0.025" thick. Some of the vintage saws were 0.028" thick and thicker. Generally filed cross cut as mentioned. But sometimes they can have a combination filing, dependent on the user and their needs. (Not all craftsmen worked in fine cabinet shops with dedicated saws.)
3) Shoulder cuts on tenons are rarely deep cuts. So a 2.5" under spine will most likely do 99% or your shoulder cuts. As a bonus, if it is filed a combination filing and 0.020" or even 0.025" thick, you can indeed cut dovetails with it. They were certainly doing it 200 years ago.
I do not work for Veritas and certainly have no stock in the company. But they do have a good bang for the buck set of "carcass saws". They have the 0.020" thick plates that could very well cut large dovetails, if needed, as well as tenons and tenon shoulders. Otherwise a set of vintage saws can often be found and refurbished to do a nice job. And this brings us back to (1). Best wishes.

[Jim Matthews]

Something around 10-14" long, 3" deep plate with a back on it.
Steel if the saw is large, brass if the saw is small.

Filed rip, if the teeth are smaller than 10 TPI.
I crosscut, rip and all with the same smaller
toothed saws - it just takes longer.

The only caution I would offer is that if you can't
see the teeth without magnification, sharpening
is difficult. Most of us don't do it often.

Store your saws properly oiled - if your shop is
as humid as mine, contact with wood (particularly plywood)
will induce rust. Rust on fine teeth will make cutting difficult.

[Chris Hachet]

Brian-
I currently own only a 20tpi Dovetail saw and a fine Dozuki.

What Western style saw should I get next. I'm not yet up to ripping. I just want to be able to efficiently cut tenons and cross cut parts to size.

Any of the above will work well. I have a couple of Bontz saws, a Lie Nielson dovetail, two Japanese saws, a vintage backsaw, and a Veritas carcas saw. All of them work really well. A bad axe is in the fleet as well. But Ron Bontz's saws have the edge in my opinion. If it were me, I would buy one really nice saw from Ron or Bad Axe tool works.

[Chris Hachet]

Not to hijack the thread here, but I am looking for a good general purpose joinery saw. Should I be looking at a 'carcass', 'crosscut' or 'tenon' style saw?

I found having a 14" caracass saw worked best when I was in your shoes.

[Shawn Pixley]

I favor the Bad Axe hybrid. Probably a bit big for really small items. I have a Veritas saw for that situation.

[Mike Holbrook]

Another possibility to get someone started is the Gramercy Sash saw. It is a 14" saw filled with a combo tooth that can saw either way. The thin plate and relatively fine teeth work surprisingly well for rips or Xcutting, which makes it a great choice for tenons or you guessed it sashes. Im my experience it is a little harder to get started with the semi rip teeth but makes a very fine kerf and cuts very quickly. I think Dereck has a review on his Blog. Gramercy also offers a saw kit for this saw.