Shaper? Power Feeder?

[Mike Berrevoets]

I'm going to be making kitchen cabinets shortly for our house. My wife wants Shaker style which is nice and simple and relatively timeless. I have a router table and a cheaper set of shaker rail/stile bits and have made quite a few shaker doors in the past with OK results. I never seem to quite get the consistency at the joints I think I should be getting which means more sanding to make things flush, etc. With this bigger batch of doors I was pondering a shaper hoping to make things a little more consistent and potentially faster and without the annoying whine of a router for hours on end.

I've been casually checking Craiglist looking for used shapers. I found one last night and it includes a power feeder and the Freeborn shaper tooling I would need. Asking price is $1,000 for everything and seller says it all works. From the pictures it looks like it may have been used in a commercial setting.

I've never used a shaper before and am a little intimidated (safety wise) but it seems like a power feeder would make things safer and faster. I've done some searches on the forum to do some research and it seems like there are people in the "shaper camp" and in the "router camp". I don't think I NEED a shaper but if the price is right and it would make things easier/faster then it may be worthwhile. And if I buy used and decide it's not for me I can sell it for a small loss.

I know I'm not giving too many details but if everything checked out to work would $1,000 be an unreasonable price to pay? Anything in particular I should look out for?

thanks,
Mike

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, the feeder and tooling are worth more than the asking price.

Make sure it comes with a fence and check the bearings for smoothness and play.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. Here's a look at making an A&C door on a shaper.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?210585-Making-Tenons-on-the-Shaper&highlight=making+tenons+on+a+shaper

[roger wiegand]

How big a shaper? How much and what kind of tooling?

I'm still on the learning curve with my shaper (a 3hp Delta) and new feeder (Shop Fox). I can tell you the feeder has increased my willingness to use the shaper about 100x and I just ran several thousand feet of moldings for a four part baseboard I foolishly designed for my house through it. I would not have wanted to do that on my router table! Plus the results were much better-- no burning of the cherry anywhere, and a finish that only needed a quick sanding.

A good quality carbide cabinet door set of cutters can easily run $3-400, so any cutters that come with it are not to be sneezed at. I got an Amana head with interchangeable cutters that has been great. So if the shaper is something like the Delta HD with a 1" spindle and has any significant amour of cutters with it the price might be good. Mine was $600 about 15 years ago and came with about four different cabinet door sets--all in desperate need of sharpening!

[J.R. Rutter]

Sounds worth it to me unless one or more of the 3 major things (shaper, feeder, or cutters) is damaged, incomplete, or missing parts.

Shaper - Try to get a feel for the bearings. Do they spin easily by hand? Try to see it running. Some of the medium duty shapers will vibrate with a full stack of cutters, but it should NOT feel like it wants to walk around or anything. Even the Powermatic 5 HP that I bought new would get some vibration if the cutters weren't stacked just so. Try to determine if all of the table rings and fence parts are there.

Feeder - Try to see it running and listen for any crunchiness in the gearing. Are the wheels hard and glazed smooth, or are they still capable of gripping?

Cutters - Try to look at all of the tips to make sure none are chipped. How sharp / dull are they? See if you can remove them easily if they are on the spindle. That will let you make sure that the spindle is nice and smooth, not galled up by a spun cutter.

[Mike Schuch]

$1000 for shaper, power feeder and tooling is a great deal if they are in decent shape. You could probably sell them seperately and turn a profit.

[Mike Berrevoets]

Thanks all for the confirmation that the price might be in the right ballpark if things check out. The list of things to look at is also helpful since I'm not familiar with shapers. It is older equipment but this might be a nice and inexpensive way for me to see if this is something that will work for me.

I'll see if it is still around and go check it out.

Mike

[Peter Quinn]

Go team shaper! Brand? Size? Spindle? HP? We wont steal your deal....I promise...you can give a few more details. Feeder size? Because I can think of at least one shaper/feeder/tooling set up I've seen lately that I wouldn't give you half that much on a good day. Some very good basic advice above when shaper shopping, and also some very large assumptions. It could be the deal of the decade or not so much. But at this point its like standing in a dark room and asking a blind man "Am I fat..."

[J.R. Rutter]

Is it this one? If so $1k is on the high end of worth, IMHO, unless it runs like a top. 3/4" spindle, no factory fence, 1/4 HP feeder... The shaker freeborn set is versatile though, if the sharpening has been done to keep them a matched set.

http://images.craigslist.org/00J0J_3RPHBAlEawd_600x450.jpg

[Mike Berrevoets]

Is it this one? If so $1k is on the high end of worth, IMHO, unless it runs like a top. 3/4" spindle, no factory fence, 1/4 HP feeder... The shaker freeborn set is versatile though, if the sharpening has been done to keep them a matched set.



Yeah, maybe. :) I called the seller last night and left a message but he hasn't called me back yet. My gut thought it was on the high end based on his asking prices for other items he had for sale that I do know something about.

my plan for a shaper is just a beefier router. I know the big ones can do a lot more but I can't justify spending a lot more money when I can get by with my router table for this project and I don't have the need to do what some of you pros do.

We'll see if the seller calls back. I don't want to buy a project and have no problem walking away. Since you've seen the ad what would your opinion be of a fair price? (Assuming things check out)

thanks
mike

[J.R. Rutter]

I *think* that the quill on those shapers is better than typical Delta/Powermatic small shapers as long as it is still in good condition and the elevation gears are OK.

Say $250-$350 for the shaper, $150 for the feeder, and $200 for the cutters. So for me, $600-$700...

The tenon jig might be worth something if it is good and tight.

[David C. Roseman]

I *think* that the quill on those shapers is better than typical Delta/Powermatic small shapers as long as it is still in good condition and the elevation gears are OK.

Say $250-$350 for the shaper, $150 for the feeder, and $200 for the cutters. So for me, $600-$700...

The tenon jig might be worth something if it is good and tight.

Going on J.R.'s description of the ad, I agree with him on the price range. In fact, if the shaper will only take a 3/4" spindle, don't think I'd go even that high.

[Rick Lizek]

I would also consider having doors and drawers outsourced as a possible option. You should at least get a quote. It can save a considerable amount of time. You must have drawings before you start the build so it wouldn't take long to put together a quote list. A shop that only does this everyday will certainly be many times faster and probably cheaper unless you value yourself at $2 an hour. You just have to make sure you figure the sizes correctly.

[Peter Quinn]

I *think* that the quill on those shapers is better than typical Delta/Powermatic small shapers as long as it is still in good condition and the elevation gears are OK.

Say $250-$350 for the shaper, $150 for the feeder, and $200 for the cutters. So for me, $600-$700...

The tenon jig might be worth something if it is good and tight.

Ditto my estimate. Remember if you ever need parts.....you will have to make them yourself, the fence is already shop made, and the cutter value could go even lower depending on actual condition. It will still outwork pretty much any router table assuming it's in good order. Bearings are replaceable, elevation gears much harder for an obsolete machine.

[Mike Berrevoets]

I would also consider having doors and drawers outsourced as a possible option. You should at least get a quote. It can save a considerable amount of time. You must have drawings before you start the build so it wouldn't take long to put together a quote list. A shop that only does this everyday will certainly be many times faster and probably cheaper unless you value yourself at $2 an hour. You just have to make sure you figure the sizes correctly.

Yup. I'm checking into that option as well. I have a hard time "outsourcing" even if it is to some shop 3 miles away. I like to have the control of picking the stock, matching the grain and building it to my own level of quality. Even a good shop has to (and should) worry about how much time they are spending on a job to be profitable. In the end, if I made it and I'm willing to accept or not accept something as good enough then it is my decision. If I'm not happy I bite the bullet and make a new one. And I'm not put in the position of arguing with a shop on whether something is good enough. I can be a little picky/critical and that's not entirely fair to some shop trying to make a profit. And, I like to make stuff, however, I'm not crazy about finishing 30-40 doors/5 panel drawer faces plus a bunch of drawers, etc. That is something I may outsource because I'm sure they can do a better job of spray finishing then I can ever do. I did it all on the last kitchen project at the old house and I way, way underestimated the time that finishing took.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

I have a shaper on my MiniMax combo CU300 and have learned to use it without a feeder. With that said, I don't know where I'd need a shaper doing shaker cabinets. I'd be looking for something to do mortise and tenons.

[Mike Berrevoets]

Thanks for the reality check on the pricing. I'm OK with paying a fair price and it sounds like that might be in the $500 to $700 range.