1940-47 d7

[lowell holmes]

This D-7 10 TPI crosscut saw is my next project. The only thing required is a bit of polishing and I'd like to give the handle Stewie's treatment.
It has not been sharpened since I got it a few years ago and has been languishing in the saw till. It is the best 10 point crosscut saw I have, but I haven't been using it that much for some reason.

I admire the saw handles Stewie has been posting. I plan on rounding the edges like his recent saws. I went back and found Stewie's treatment on the D-8 saw. He pretty much shows the recipe.
I reshape the handle a bit, and I might even put brass saw nuts on it since I'm not going to protect the historical features. This saw will be a user.
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[Thomas Schneider]

Can't wait to see the finished saw, good luck!

Tom.

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi Lowell. I'm looking forward to seeing what you end up with.


regards Stewie;

[george wilson]

There is plenty of wood there that you can rasp,carve and file away to make a more artistic handle.

[lowell holmes]

The handle on this saw is interesting. On back saws, the blade slot is cut all the way through the handle from top to bottom. This cut is easy to make with a handsaw. I made the last one with a tenon saw.

On this 1940's-1952 vintage crosscut saw, the blade slot is open on the front and bottom of the handle, but is closed on the top of the handle. It is also a circular cut. The saw plate also has a partial circular component. On the panel saw the slot is cut straight through.

George, maybe you know how to make this cut, but I don't have the foggiest idea. The only way I have figured how to do it is to make the handle from two pieces of wood, make the blade recess while the pieces are open and then glue them together. I'm not making a new handle, but curious how to approach it if I did.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm not making a new handle, but curious how to approach it if I did.

Could this be done with a circular saw blade?

jtk

[lowell holmes]

I haven't figured how to do it.

The radius of the 90 degree curve on the saw plate is 3". The sawplate is .04" thick. I could visualize a saw blade in a drill press, but I can't visualize making the cut. :)
I value my hands too much.
The 6" saw blades are at least 1/16" thick.

I'm not making a new handle, but I am modifying the old one. So it's not important, but I wonder how they made the cut at the factory during the middle part of the twentieth century.

[Jim Koepke]

I wonder how they made the cut at the factory during the middle part of the twentieth century.

May have been a specially made piece of equipment. May have been done in the early stage of making a handle to allow for safety.

jtk

[John Vernier]

In older books about machine woodworking* you will see setups for running circular saw blades on shaper spindles - not an uncommon way to cut tenons, for instance, using two blades spaced apart. I have little doubt Disston had a setup something like this for slotting blades. Their D-8 saws also had these closed-top handles, right from the beginning of that model in the 1880s. They claimed it was stronger and kept water out of the slot.

* I recommend George Ellis, Modern Practical Joinery, 1903 (reprint by Linden) for a lot of good shop information and some interesting and occasionally sketchy machine practice.

[steven c newman]

Afraid the #7 I have won't be much help as a model...
310109
But it does have a Lamb's Tongue feature
310110
I'd have to go and look it up in the till, about whether it is open or closed top.

[lowell holmes]

John,
I don't have to cut any saw slots, but I was thinking that if I ruined the handle, I could always make a new one. I was brought up a bit short when I realized the saw slot is not a simple saw slot.
The thickness of 7 1/4" and 6" skil saw blades is thicker than the saw slot. I will not need to since I am past that point, but I made my mind that if faced with the issue, I would cut the blade slot with my tenon saw like it was a normal slot and then glue a filler strip into the slot to close it up.

Steven,
Mine has a lamb's tongue now and the old handle has been scraped and sanded. I'll probably be putting finish on tomorrow. I have some brass saw nuts that are going to replace the steel ones that were on the saw.
I have come up with something I will share. I cut an old card scraper into narrow strips to facilitate scraping the old finish off of the handle.

That is a nice saw that you have.

Thanks for your interest guys.

[lowell holmes]

Here is the saw with a new handle. I tried Stewie's formula and it worked, but I messed the old handle up.
I decided to make a new handle with new saw nuts. Here is the result. The wood is quartersawn sapele.
The finish is one coat of blo and three coats of amber shellac, and Renaissance wax.
It is interesting that Disston started using closed top handles somewhere in the middle of the 20th century.
I had to cut the blade slot and then fill the crack left on top with a strip of sepele.


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[Jim Davis]

That closed handle top was a selling point for Disston. They called it a "cover-top" handle.

When we start out to make an artistic handle, it's worth remembering that the "horns," the "lambs tongue" and the lower loop are the places the original handles broke. It seems wise to not make those parts too thin. That's why Disston eliminated the lamb's tongue about 1928. I've never seen one of the later handles broken in the loop and there is no lamb's tongue. I've seen lots of the older prettier handles broken.

[Stewie Simpson]

Very nice Lowell. Kudos

Stewie;

[lowell holmes]

That closed handle top was a selling point for Disston. They called it a "cover-top" handle.

When we start out to make an artistic handle, it's worth remembering that the "horns," the "lambs tongue" and the lower loop are the places the original handles broke. It seems wise to not make those parts too thin. That's why Disston eliminated the lamb's tongue about 1928. I've never seen one of the later handles broken in the loop and there is no lamb's tongue. I've seen lots of the older prettier handles broken.

Jim,
I appreciate the information. I knew about the closed top, but didn't know the term "cover-top".

I didn't know the history of broken lamb's tongue on handsaws. Hopefully that will not happen, but if it does, another handle will be required.:)

I am concerned about the sapele because it is not a hard non-porous wood. The figure is so pronounced that I decided that if it fails, I'll have to make one from another specie.

[Stewie Simpson]

"That's why Disston eliminated the lamb's tongue about 1928."

Unless Jim can provide some historical data by Disston to validate his claim, this statement should be viewed with little regard.

No offence intended Jim.

Stewie;

[Bill Baethke]

I always assumed that the Lamb tongue went away because it was too labor intensive to produce. I have a few lambs tongue handles, and the tongue is usually solid. Seems that the horns are where the breaks occur. If you look at a mid 20th century Disstons (D-8, etc), the handles are not shaped as elegantly as late 19 century ones, but they do seem to hold up better to abuse. I find the older handles to be much more comfortable in my hand.

[Jim Davis]

"That's why Disston eliminated the lamb's tongue about 1928."

Unless Jim can provide some historical data by Disston to validate his claim, this statement should be viewed with little regard.

No offence intended Jim.

Stewie;

Stewie, there is almost no written evidence of any Disston corporate decisions, so I guess you should all disregard my 45 years of collecting and restoring Disston handsaws. No doubt, breakage of the loops and horns was part of the turn to simpler handle designs that was principally a way to save labor costs. But after seeing probably 3/4s of the pre-1928 saws displaying broken horns and or lower loops, I drew my own conclusion. If you really like making replacement handles as a pastime, do disregard my comments. It is a satisfying way to use and practice skills.

[Jim Davis]

I always assumed that the Lamb tongue went away because it was too labor intensive to produce. I have a few lambs tongue handles, and the tongue is usually solid. Seems that the horns are where the breaks occur. If you look at a mid 20th century Disstons (D-8, etc), the handles are not shaped as elegantly as late 19 century ones, but they do seem to hold up better to abuse. I find the older handles to be much more comfortable in my hand.

I guess what I was getting at about the lamb's tongues is the spot where the lower loop blends into the tongue.

Bill, I certainly like the feel of the older handles better too. The last Disston handles feel like the edge of a board with the corners rounded.

I also like to take those newer ones and do what (I think) Stewie did to one and showed it here. Those Disston Porter handles were an insult.

Erik shows a pretty clear pictorial sequence of the handle designs on the Disstonian Institute.

Jim

[lowell holmes]

Well, I think the discourse on this subject is enlightening and I appreciate the comments. Looking at the top horn on my handle, I may very well cut it shorter to minimize the possible breakage on it.

If the handle fails, I will make another, utilizing the knowledge gained. I think a nice walnut handle would look great.

[lowell holmes]

If you look at the post Steve Newman made, his d-7 saw has the horns and the lamb's tongue as well.

[Don Kingston]

The handle on this saw is interesting. On back saws, the blade slot is cut all the way through the handle from top to bottom. This cut is easy to make with a handsaw. I made the last one with a tenon saw.

On this 1940's-1952 vintage crosscut saw, the blade slot is open on the front and bottom of the handle, but is closed on the top of the handle. It is also a circular cut. The saw plate also has a partial circular component. On the panel saw the slot is cut straight through.

George, maybe you know how to make this cut, but I don't have the foggiest idea. The only way I have figured how to do it is to make the handle from two pieces of wood, make the blade recess while the pieces are open and then glue them together. I'm not making a new handle, but curious how to approach it if I did.

I have no clue on doing this but a small diameter circle saw blade finished at the top with a kind of hack saw blade. Would that work?

[lowell holmes]

Don,
I cut the slot with a tenon saw to establish the slot. I cut it all the way through. I then made the saw slot wider with a 10 tpi rip saw that I have. I finished the slot by making a strip of wood that I glued in the slit and planed it flush. You really have to look for it to see it.

I'm not enthusiastic about putting a circular saw blade into the slot. If I didn't destroy the slot, I probably would injure myself.

Thaks for your interest and response.