Old Delta 460 Lathe Rehab Project

[Russell Neyman]

A friend, Doc, picked up this very old and heavy Delta-Rockwell lathe recently, and I'm helping him get it set up and running. I'm thinking it's a 46-460, probably dating back to World War II, from one of the shipyards in Puget Sound. Reeves drive adjusted by the crank below the motor head. I'm guessing that the max diameter is 12 inches except for the gap bed area. The free end unit does not appear to be removable or mounted in a tapered fitting, but I have not tried to force it.

So, a few questions, and looking for thoughts from people who have traveled this path before. Could it be that the serial number, 119-4202 means it's the 119th lathe built in February of 1942? By the way, for some reason the first photo makes it look blue, but it's actually gray.
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Right now it has a brand new 220-440 three phase motor, but seems to me the smart thing would be to swap that out for something single phase. Doc has 220 in his shop. What should be put in? and what's this motor worth?
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Also included with the lathe are these three odd things, which I suspect are part of a copy lathe attachment. There's no obvious way to mount them any place on the current arrangement. Any ideas?
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I'm guessing that one of my fellow Creekers will know all about this, what it's capable of doing, and ideas about the rehab.

[daryl moses]

I would keep the 3 phase motor and utilize a VFD. You then could have variable speed without using the reeves drive.
Nice looking od lathe!

[Russell Neyman]

Interesting idea. I suppose he could leave the Reeves gears intact and use either, like a double gearbox? Wouldn't need to reengineer anything that way.

[Dwight Rutherford]

If you go to http://vintagemachinery.org you should be able to learn more about what you have including date of manufacture.

[M Toupin]

Keep the 3ph and use a sensorless vector VFD with the reeves. VFD's are constant torque below rated hz, if you reduce the hz to 30 then you're motor is turning at 1/2 speed AND you only have 1/2 the rated horsepower. Not to mention reducing you're motor speed effects the cooling as less rpms means less air moving through the motor. The reeves is in effect a transmission allowing you to reduce the speed but increase the torque, with the combination you get the best of both worlds. You can use a combination of reeves & VFD to dial in you're speed keeping you're motor speed as high as possible which keeps the HP up and the cooling up while mechanically increasing the torque for the better cutting. It also lets you reduce to some very low speeds and still keep reasonable torque on the low end. For a lathe stick with a sensorless vector drive rather than the simple Hz/volts (think FM50). Sensorless vector drives have enhanced torque compensation were the Hz/volt drives take a significant hit in torque below about 20-30hz.

Mike

[Russell Neyman]

You said it so much better than I, Mike. Thanks! I'll pass this on to Doc.

Dwight, I've gone to the vintage machinery site before and I can see that it's a wealth of information, but pretty damn hard to navigate. If someone smarter than me could find the manufacture date of this machine and pass a link on, it would be appreciated.

[M Toupin]

the manufacture date






Mid 1957

Mike

[Russell Neyman]

Doc is looking into the VFD but is having difficulty finding anything that is reasonably priced. Suggestions?

[Leo Van Der Loo]

That 3/4 hp motor is barely big enough as is, sticking a vfd on that and you end up with even less power.

I would suggest a 2hp motor if you are going that way, just IMO

[daryl moses]

That 3/4 hp motor is barely big enough as is, sticking a vfd on that and you end up with even less power.

I would suggest a 2hp motor if you are going that way, just IMO
Good catch, I didn't realize the original motor was just 3/4 h.p. For some reason I thought it was a 2 h.p. motor. My old eyes must be playing tricks on me.

[Russell Neyman]

Ah, yes. So it looks like we're back where we started. Just get a good single-phase 110 or 220 volt replacement motor (he has plenty of both in his shop) in the 1 1/2 horsepower range and be done with it. The three-phase motor is so new you could eat your dinner off of it, so somebody will want it. What is that worth?

[Keith Outten]

Call Delta, they have a database and should be able to look up your serial number.

[Bob Bergstrom]

I put a 1 1/2hp motor on an old Delta 450 some years ago. I had to cut a hole in the lower base area to accommodate the fan end of the motor. It is longer than the 3/4 hp.

[Russell Neyman]

Wait a minute! (I warned everybody that I was electrically dumb, right?) Now I'm told that if we simply re-wire the existing motor to 220 per the drawing on the unit we can run it on the shop's 220 circuit. That true?

[Todd Burch]

No. That motor plate shows how to change from low voltage (220) to high voltage (440) and back. Changing from low to high, or visa versa does not convert the motor from 3 phase to single phase.

That just looks like the original motor to me, kept clean by being inside the lathe. I can't imagine a new replacement motor coming with a vintage motor badge.