metal engraving laser

[Sarah Wolske]

Hey guys. I was a laser engraver for about 7 years working with a 60 watt and 120 watt epilog legend. I then went to school for 4 years to learn hand engraving specifically on firearms. I have my own hand engraving business now but am looking at expanding with a laser I love how easy the epilogs were to maintain and were very user friendly. But I am looking at getting a laser that can engrave depth (I am talking like upto 2 mm) into steel and aluminum but have the same user friendliness of the epilog. If possible I would like to be able to do gunstock checkering, so engraving over not completely flat surfaces as well with it. Anybody have any ideas? Does my dream laser exist? Money is not a huge issue I would rather have a quality product than something I am going to have to fix every month. Thanks for the Feed back!

[Gary Hair]

For wood you need co2 and for deep metal engraving you need galvo fiber. You won't get both with one machine, at least not both that do their job really well. There are a couple of "combo" fiber and co2 gantry machines, but for deep engraving you really need a galvo. I have a G Weike 30 watt fiber that has performed flawlessly for the last 9 months. It has been a steep learning curve with no real support from the manufacturer, but it does a great job and cost me about 1/4 of what one of the mainstream machines would have run. If that scares you at all then I'd suggest you contact Jim Earman at Jimani Inc. They have galvo fiber as well as galvo co2 solutions, a one-stop-shop! They put out a quality product and judging by the support he provided me with my Chinese laser, you will have no problem with them supporting their machine.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Does my dream laser exist? Money is not a huge issue

It does indeed, if money really is no object then either a Vytek 1,000 watt fiber Galvo with moving bed (so up to 1,600 x 1,600 working area) or one of the big industrial CO2 machines with 5 axis control and 4kW - 6kW resonator.

Aluminium is a terrible substrate to work on with a laser unless you have a LOT of power (like 1kW fiber as a base line) if you want to deep engrave.

Think at $850,000 as a start point for the 600 watt Vytek and $2,000,000 for a big industrial CO2 in the 4kW range.

From there you can either go up or down depending on budget from $10,000 base line up to $10,000,000+ at the high end.

cheers

Dave

[Scott Shepherd]

This is CO2, so it won't help with the metal, but it's still cool to watch :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZleOfiMd-dU

[Gary Hair]

Aluminium is a terrible substrate to work on with a laser unless you have a LOT of power (like 1kW fiber as a base line) if you want to deep engrave.

I have to completely disagree with you here Dave. My "puny little" 30 watt fiber does just fine engraving deep in aluminum - stainless steel and pretty much anything else I've thrown at it.

[Dave Sheldrake]

I'm thinking about 2mm depth at speed with only one pass Gary :)

[Gary Hair]

I'm thinking about 2mm depth at speed with only one pass Gary :)

Wouldn't the power necessary to do that leave quite a mess? I know that I have to power down a bit with mine to get a good clean finish.

[Chris DeGerolamo]

This is CO2, so it won't help with the metal, but it's still cool to watch :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZleOfiMd-dU

How is it that I could watch this all day long, but when it comes to watching my laser run, I can't wait for the job to be over???

OP: I have used our CO2 to engrave receivers and such, creating the art in AutoCAD and transferring to Corel Draw to do the finished product. Every time, I hate it. I nail it every time, but no matter what I do, I always sink more time into the job than what I quote. Not talking about little scrolls etc, I'm talking about filling whole sides/faces. Granted I have no formal firearm engraving background, but I would think to stick with your hands on this. I have the utmost respect for the "old time engravers"; it's a skill that does not directly translate to laser engravers. When it comes to checkering/ doing scallops etc., my 2" lens works fine as long as I engrave in several focal planes. I hope this helps, though it's laden with opinion.

[Junior hall]

Try Boss Laser they have fiber and co2 machines also They have awesome tech support and will walk you threw every thing by remote access also I have not have better customer support until ive meet Bosslaser. I am a new be never had one and had millions of questions and they walked me threw and remote access They have all types of co2 machines and fiber machines

[Gary Hair]

Try Boss Laser they have fiber and co2 machines also They have awesome tech support and will walk you threw every thing by remote access also I have not have better customer support until ive meet Bosslaser. I am a new be never had one and had millions of questions and they walked me threw and remote access They have all types of co2 machines and fiber machines

Boss may be US based, but the fiber they show on their website is made by G Weike and can be bought direct for $8,200 - that's a huge difference from the $19,997 that Boss wants!

[Bert Kemp]

seems this video has been removed is there any place else to watch it??


How is it that I could watch this all day long, but when it comes to watching my laser run, I can't wait for the job to be over???

OP: I have used our CO2 to engrave receivers and such, creating the art in AutoCAD and transferring to Corel Draw to do the finished product. Every time, I hate it. I nail it every time, but no matter what I do, I always sink more time into the job than what I quote. Not talking about little scrolls etc, I'm talking about filling whole sides/faces. Granted I have no formal firearm engraving background, but I would think to stick with your hands on this. I have the utmost respect for the "old time engravers"; it's a skill that does not directly translate to laser engravers. When it comes to checkering/ doing scallops etc., my 2" lens works fine as long as I engrave in several focal planes. I hope this helps, though it's laden with opinion.

[Gary Hair]

seems this video has been removed is there any place else to watch it??

Click on the YouTube logo on the bottom right corner and you'll be taken to youtube to watch it. Apparently they don't want it embedded into an outside website/forum.

[Bert Kemp]

Thanks Gary That worked:)


Click on the YouTube logo on the bottom right corner and you'll be taken to youtube to watch it. Apparently they don't want it embedded into an outside website/forum.

[Bill George]

For 10K in mark up, they should give support.

[Scott Shepherd]

That's bizarre that they killed the ability to watch it embedded. It's giving them free advertising on an engraving forum. I guess they don't want people on engraving forums watching their videos selling engraving machines.

You'd think someone from their company would join the forum and post a "Thanks for sharing the video of our machine in action, blah blah blah". Instead, they removed access from embedding it.

I fixed my post that embedded it and just posted a link to it.

[Matt McCoy]

Boss may be US based, but the fiber they show on their website is made by G Weike and can be bought direct for $8,200 - that's a huge difference from the $19,997 that Boss wants!


For 10K in mark up, they should give support.

Depending on how much it is for shipping/import and the final price on the machine from Boss, that gap narrows a little. Automation Technology has a 20 W fiber machine too.

[Gary Hair]

For 10K in mark up, they should give support.

It's almost 12k, $11,797.00, and for that much they should fly out to set it up and then run jobs until the 12k has been produced in revenue.

[Bill George]

It's almost 12k, $11,797.00, and for that much they should fly out to set it up and then run jobs until the 12k has been produced in revenue.

And take them all out for a nice dinner!

[Dave Sheldrake]

Wouldn't the power necessary to do that leave quite a mess? I know that I have to power down a bit with mine to get a good clean finish.

A lot depends on the optics quality Gary, the top line stuff can pump big numbers and still give a decent standard of finish but that sort of quality comes at serious dollars :( (start thinking good sized house sort of money) :(

[Dave Sheldrake]

I used to be quite an outspoken supporter of Weike machines but due to my inbox filling up rather rapidly with valid and verifiable problems (from people that aren't new to lasers in any way) I now not only wouldn't recommend them but I'd do what I could to make people aware of some of the support problems that have raised their head of late :(

Once the list of "Try this to fix your problem" is exhausted you pretty much end up on your own and possibly stuck with a non working machine in some cases.

These days I'd speak out against any direct import to be honest, it can work out but when it doesn't the end results can be astounding to say the least (or rather the suppliers lack of service is) that said $12,000 pays for a LOT of problems that may or may not ever happen ;)

Seems to be these days buying a laser (at least a far eastern one) is a crap shoot unless you use maybe one or two companies in country who have a time served reputation for both quality and service.

Ray Scott at Rabbit has got me out of sticky corners when I have needed bits that weren't available over here and Chris Jacobs at HPC here is likely the foremost authority in the UK and Europe for sorting all things Chinese laser based.

(I don't have any irons in these fires, I don't get paid by anybody so can easily afford to be brutally honest) :)

cheers

Dave

[Gary Hair]

Were those problems with fiber or co2? Just curious because it seems that a fiber either works or doesn't, not much to troubleshoot.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Both Gary :( incorrect software being supplied, trial software being supplied when the full versions were paid for, low power output compared to claims, poor to very poor standards of build and chassis alignment to name but a few. These things happen with Chinese lasers but that's one of the drawbacks of buying cheap machines so can be expected BUT when the seller simple goes *dark* and no longer wants to help the people who have given them (not inconsiderable) amounts of money I get hacked off with it.
There seems to be a mindset of "try A,B,C,D" and if those don't fix the problem even some of the bigger companies simply stop responding to email no matter how far up the ladder you try to get a result from.

Of all far eastern companies the one that gets me the most email of late is Weike and most of those mails are pleas for help from customers who have paid out quite high dollar values and find themselves with little or no help when things goes badly wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I love Chinese machines but what I don't like is the attitude towards customers who hand over large(ish) sums and get nothing short of dreadful treatment on the part of some of the vendors :(

cheers

Dave

[Ray Scott]

What other mainstream companies also sell Galvo Fiber Laser?

[Scott Shepherd]

Don't get me wrong, I love Chinese machines but what I don't like is the attitude towards customers who hand over large(ish) sums and get nothing short of dreadful treatment on the part of some of the vendors :(

Dave

I've never understood the Chinese model. I don't know if it's a cultural thing that they don't get "us" (the West), or what, but imagine what they COULD do if they'd employ a couple English speaking tech's, and if their attitude was "if we screwed up, we need to make it right". They'd be sitting on a gold mine. Instead, it's more often than not, if they make mistakes on orders, or something isn't right, they basically just say "We're not going to make it right". How, anyone with a brain, can think that taking a customers money, and then sending them something that didn't agree to should end in "We're done, the check is cashed" is the right thing to do is beyond me.

For a culture that's supposed to be so heavily rooted in honor and dignity, they sure don't mind abandoning that mind set when it's convenient.

I've said it before, if any one of those Eastern companies ever treated people like they want to make the customer happy, added manuals and tech support that were English based, their sales would go up 10 fold. But they can't seem to see that.

[Ray Scott]

OK.. everybody complaining about prices of fiber lasers being imported by American companies. We expect the American company to do a lot of stuff. It cant be for free. In stead of complaining, Let's make a list of demands.

- Provide a fair price
- Ensure conformance to FDA and FCC regulations
- Have every possible spare parts in USA
- Delivery of a new laser machine within a week
- Delivery of spare parts available overnight
- Provide good tech support
- Deliver and setup the fiber laser machine
- Have training classes at the home office for whenever you want to stop and visit.
- Provide a full hardware warranty for at least 2 years .. extended warranty available.
- Integration to Factory Automation
- Engrave onto parts while they are moving on a conveyor
- Cut/Engrave in areas of 100x100, 200x200, 300x300 (millimeters)
- Demonstrate a proficiency in the laser market with top quality feedback and high level of customer support

Any more suggestions? And what price is fair for these features?

[Gary Hair]

Any more suggestions?

How about disclosing that you are the owner of Rabbit Laser in your signature as dictated by the TOS?

[Ray Scott]

How about disclosing that you are the owner of Rabbit Laser in your signature as dictated by the TOS?

I would love to tell everyone that I am the owner and engineer at Rabbit Laser USA. I have been scolded before for stating that I am at all affiliated with any laser company. The specific moderator viewed it as a form of advertising. I believe that I deserve the right to fully state who I am. The moderator saw my signature and much of my advice as an attempt to advertise.
I try to pose proper questions, detailed answers... and generally try to give free advice in my spare time.

It is difficult to read a post by a guest that asks for advice of what will fix the laser ...and where to buy the parts from. I am not allowed to answer with something regarding Rabbit Laser USA. ... not unless asked directly.

Would you like to know what Rabbit Laser USA has planned for the Fiber Laser market?

[Scott Shepherd]

Ray, it has nothing to do with a "certain moderator", it's the policy of the forum which you agreed to when you signed up here. The policy states :

"Signatures may not be gratuitous commercial advertisements containing promotional offers, sales, or other marketing efforts. Members of the "Friends of the Creek" business directory may include an embedded link to their record within their signature block using the facilities provided."

You aren't treated any differently than anyone else on this forum. We all have 2 options to list our company information. You can become a "Friend of the Creek", in which you get to list your website in the directory and then link to that directory in your signature, or you can pay to advertise, like the owners of other laser companies do. I would think it would benefit you GREATLY to become an advertiser on this forum. You'd probably double your sales because you'd pull a lot of people from the direct purchase route. It's your choice, but understand it's the choice you make, not someone doing something against you.

[Dan Hintz]

I would love to tell everyone that I am the owner and engineer at Rabbit Laser USA. I have been scolded before for stating that I am at all affiliated with any laser company. The specific moderator viewed it as a form of advertising. I believe that I deserve the right to fully state who I am. The moderator saw my signature and much of my advice as an attempt to advertise.
I try to pose proper questions, detailed answers... and generally try to give free advice in my spare time.

It is difficult to read a post by a guest that asks for advice of what will fix the laser ...and where to buy the parts from. I am not allowed to answer with something regarding Rabbit Laser USA. ... not unless asked directly.

Would you like to know what Rabbit Laser USA has planned for the Fiber Laser market?


Ray, it has nothing to do with a "certain moderator", it's the policy of the forum which you agreed to when you signed up here. The policy states :

"Signatures may not be gratuitous commercial advertisements containing promotional offers, sales, or other marketing efforts. Members of the "Friends of the Creek" business directory may include an embedded link to their record within their signature block using the facilities provided."

You aren't treated any differently than anyone else on this forum. We all have 2 options to list our company information. You can become a "Friend of the Creek", in which you get to list your website in the directory and then link to that directory in your signature, or you can pay to advertise, like the owners of other laser companies do. I would think it would benefit you GREATLY to become an advertiser on this forum. You'd probably double your sales because you'd pull a lot of people from the direct purchase route. It's your choice, but understand it's the choice you make, not someone doing something against you.
Ray, to clarify... you can put "Owner/Engineer at Rabbit Laser USA" in your sig. Just no links, phone numbers, etc.

[Ray Scott]

So ... Steve/Scott.. You are saying that I can put in the signature that I am the owner of Rabbit Laser USA. It is not an advertisement for sales. Not trying to promote any special offer. The marketing is inherent.. If they read my posts, then maybe they will do further research of who I am and services of my company.

[Matt McCoy]

How about disclosing that you are the owner of Rabbit Laser in your signature as dictated by the TOS?

I might be missing it (wouldn't be the first time), but I didn't see that in the TOS.

[Gary Hair]

I might be missing it (wouldn't be the first time), but I didn't see that in the TOS.

I could be wrong, but I thought that vendors/manufacturers were supposed to put that info in their signature. Maybe I'm thinking of a different forum?

[Bert Kemp]

Sounds like FSL


I've never understood the Chinese model. I don't know if it's a cultural thing that they don't get "us" (the West), or what, but imagine what they COULD do if they'd employ a couple English speaking tech's, and if their attitude was "if we screwed up, we need to make it right". They'd be sitting on a gold mine. Instead, it's more often than not, if they make mistakes on orders, or something isn't right, they basically just say "We're not going to make it right". How, anyone with a brain, can think that taking a customers money, and then sending them something that didn't agree to should end in "We're done, the check is cashed" is the right thing to do is beyond me.

For a culture that's supposed to be so heavily rooted in honor and dignity, they sure don't mind abandoning that mind set when it's convenient.

I've said it before, if any one of those Eastern companies ever treated people like they want to make the customer happy, added manuals and tech support that were English based, their sales would go up 10 fold. But they can't seem to see that.