Stanley/Bailey Plane Confusion Help Needed...

[Derek Arita]

Stanley/Bailey planes. I don't know what to look for as to model, year stamp, etc. Which are desirable and which are not so much?
Is there some kind of tutorial on Stanley/Bailey planes for newbees?

[Shawn Pixley]

Pre war but post adjusters and you're in a sweet spot. Google "blood and Gore planes" and you'll have a good starting resource.

[ken hatch]

Ask four woodworkers a question and get eight answers :-). Here are a couple of links:

The first is to the Blood and Gore page that Shawn mentioned: http://supertool.com

The second is to a dating page: http://hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/

A type 13 Stanley has all the bells and whistles and is also before the decline in quality. I would guess a type 9 is my favorite working plane, it has a good frog and frog bed, the "low" knob which I like, but no frog adjustment screw. I can't remember the last time I used a frog adjustment screw to move the frog after initial setup. It, adjusting the frog, is something I don't change once set so no adjustment screw is a non-issue for me....Of course as with all things woodworking....YMMV.

ken

[Kala Raymond]

The second is to a dating page:

For a second there . . . hahaha

[Derek Arita]

I this is a stupid question, but as I understand it then, Stanley is the manufacturer of the Bailey plane? So if I'm using the dating site, then this would apply to my Bailey planes? This was one confusing point as I would see both names on the same plane.

[Robert Norman]

The planes were manufactured by Stanley using the Bailey patents as I understand it. Most common mass produced metal planes use some form of the Bailey patent regardless of manufacturer. Sargent, Millers Falls, Record etc...

Your plane was made by Stanley to answer the question. And yes, those pages used to date your plane will apply.

[ken hatch]

For a second there . . . hahaha

Kala,

Kinda depends on your social life :-). At my age it is about as close as it gets.

ken

[Jim Koepke]

Stanley is the manufacturer of the Bailey plane? So if I'm using the dating site, then this would apply to my Bailey planes? This was one confusing point as I would see both names on the same plane.

Derek,

Stanley bought Leonard Bailey's patents and made the planes of his design. There is an interesting history of their relationship all to its own.

The best way to learn about the dates of manufacture of Stanley/Bailey planes for me was to do a lot of reading. Many of my attempts to share what was learned are posted in the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

Here is one of them:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?104945-Plane-information

Hopefully most of the links are still active.

My personal method of determining the approximate date of manufacture in the field is to look at the obvious markers such as the height of the knob, ring around the knob, size of the depth adjuster, frog adjuster screw, patent dates, and the name Bailey on the toe.

For me, when there is money in my pocket and a buying mood is upon me, if the plane has the markings of being made after 1930 it is seldom picked up unless it is in the way of getting to something else. These markings include the shape of the frog and a ring around a tall knob. Those are just my preferences.

Before type 9 the frog was unsupported near the mouth. This can be seen quickly by removing the lever cap and blade assembly. Type 9 and later have a rib in the base at the middle of the frog. With the type 9 the Bailey name was also included in the casting. That is also when the first patent dates appeared in the casting behind the frog. The frog adjustment was added in ~1907. A 1910 patent date marks the beginning of the type 11. The tall front knob came at the end of this type. The type 12, the beginning of the SW (Sweet Hart) era, is when the depth adjuster was increased in size from 1" to 1-1/4".

Most of my planes are from before 1930. This is because of my preference for a low knob. This is just a personal preference.

Around 1929 (type 14) a change to the design of the plane base included a ring around the base of the front knob.

Around 1933 (type 16) the frog was changed to what is called the ogee style frog. Of all the frogs, these have given me the most trouble.

After this the big changes were for WW II when all bets were off, the adjuster was often made of hard rubber and there may not be frog adjustment hardware. The handles are also often of painted hardwood.

After the war there was a couple of years when the knurling on the adjusters was in a diagonal pattern instead of straight across.

Here is possibly the best source of information with pictures on dating the Stanley/Bailey planes:

https://home.comcast.net/~rarebear/planes101/typing/typing.htm

One has to remember that often planes have had parts switched. Most of my planes have had the larger depth adjuster installed. Some have had the tall knob exchanged for a short knob.

Another thing to remember is Stanley wasn't adhering to any type chart when they were cranking out planes. At the edges of a particular type they may have used up old parts or introduced new parts.

There are also somethings not in the type charts. There was a change at the end of type 6 but before type 7 that slipped through the cracks. Another is there was a change in the casting during the time of type 9's manufacture. Trying to expand the type charts would create too much confusion if all the numbers had to be bumped up one or two notches. So they are just quirks in the list.

Some like to have all of their planes in a single type. My preference is for a single brand Stanley/Bailey. My planes range from type 4 to type 17. The type 4 and type 17 are the outliers. Everything else is type 6 to type 13.

Then there are some who seem to pick up every stray plane as if the were a kid walking home from school and a puppy happened to follow them home.

In all of this the important part is if the plane works and feels good in use. Nothing else is as important.

If you do want to pick planes from a particular range of years, you will do yourself well by learning the markers of those years and stick to them. Where ever you are if you see a plane, pick it up and try and see what features you can identify to date the plane. Then check on what you saw when you get back to your computer against the type study listed above.

Last week in the Habitat for Humanity Store there was an almost totally destroyed #5 at what looked like a ridiculous price. When asked, the person behind the counter told me it was because it was from 1907. It had a single 1910 patent date which means it was made around 1929-1930. Don't depend on the seller to know much about these things.

jtk

[Shawn Pixley]

Okay, I'll try to give you a better answer than my first Me, I only have one of a particular size and I have type 11's and 13's (no particular reason, it is just what I found). What I check for is flat sole, no major pitting, no cracks in the body or frog, well mated frog and flat blade rest, no frozen screws (though that probably can be fixed, but it is indicative of more work to put the plane into service), a decent levercap, and a reasonably square mouth.

What I don't think are necessities but are nice when you find them: good knob and tote (easy to buy, repair or replace), good blade and cap iron (again easy to buy a replacement, if not immediately or ultimately usable), and japaning (nice but not necessary for a user tool - all mine are users).

As others have said, if the tool works well and feels good in use, I don't care about much more... A nice and beautiful tools is wonderful. But I don't collect them and others are much more knowledgeable about types and differences. Mine work well and in many ways sharpening is a key to making even inadequate planes functional.