Hook Tools

[Hilel Salomon]

I took a mini class with Mike Hosaluk who is incredible as an instructor, demonstrator and artist. He got most of us hooked on a hook tool he uses for end grain hollowing. I noticed that there are, in addition to Mike's son, 3 other sources of hook tools: a Mr. Martel in Canada, Hilton tools in the Ozarks, and a German maker of cryogenic hook tools. Do any of you have experience with these? I wonder what you think of them.

[Thom Sturgill]

Not familiar with any of them, but Hilton appears to just give instructions on making hook tools. I took a session with Alan Lacer at the Florida symposium last month on making hook tools and have made a few. They are relatively easy to make from drill rod, but the resulting tool is carbon steel not HSS and requires constant honing/sharpening. The good part is that if you can make the tool, you can renew the hook as needed.

I've demonstrated its use and contruction for my club and as part of the demo I made a series of shallow 'bowls' from end grain dry walnut which produced dramatic tear-out. I hollowed with a hook tool, a termite, a carbide hunter style tool, a box scraper, a small hollowing scraper, and a bowl gouge. The first three all produced an acceptable finishing cut while the others produced varying amounts of unacceptable tear-out. The box scraper produced the best inside corner with the hook tool second and the hunter carbide produced an acceptable rounded corner.

On recent boxes I did the last 1/4" or so with the hook tool and cleaned up the corner and center with light scraper cuts.

[Ralph Lindberg]

I know the Martel hook (I have one) is high-carbon steel. as are the ones from Hilton. I don't know the German source so I can't comment.
I've also made my own, after an all-day class on them from Alan Lacer.
Two of my hooks are actually made for use with my Treadle Lathe. Before steel was "cheap", hook tools were more common as they take far less steel to make then a gouge or skew.

[Hilel Salomon]

Thanks for the replies. I know that there are a few "how to" articles on making them out of large nails. The German one is by a fellow named Weidemann who sells them on Ebay. His are made of hss and cryogenically treated. On ebay, there is a short youtube demo as well, and it looked really good.

[Thom Sturgill]

Interesting video, but I had to go to you-tube to find.

Alan Lacer makes his from O1 drill rod, which can be hardened with MAPP gas and tempered in a normal oven. His design has the flute straight and the outside curve beveled more like a conventional gouge. The Weidemann tool is just the opposite as is the termite tool as it apparently is easier to manufacture even if possibly harder to use and tend to catch more. Lacer's design is not 'forged' as no hammering takes place. The tools are ground and then heated and bent with pliers before hardening and tempering. Only the cutting end is hardened.

[robert baccus]

Look up the Woodcut brand hollowing tool. The ultimate in hook tools with a limiter to eliminate catches.

[Bill Blasic]

I like the Woodcut Flexi Hollower, cuts very well using very safe speeds and stated above the limiter does eliminate catches. A nicely engineered tool.

[Thom Sturgill]

Look up the Woodcut brand hollowing tool. The ultimate in hook tools with a limiter to eliminate catches.

Better be good at $65 to replace the cutter head which only lasts 1-3 years 'with normal use' according to their site.

[allen thunem]

thom can you give a link to the you tube video I CANT SEEM TO FIND IT

[Thom Sturgill]

thom can you give a link to the you tube video I CANT SEEM TO FIND IT

Cranked Wiedemann hook tool (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAxmc7pd3kQ)

[Dick Strauss]

If you are going to make your own, let me give you a warning. I made my from O-1...heated it...bent it...shaped it...ground it...heated it again and hardened it in oil...did some final sharpening...and tempered it in the oven at about 350 degrees. It was a very good tool while it lasted. While using it, I could see how the Martel offset would be helpful so you don't have to cut so straight on to the piece. Unfortunately my hook tool got bumped off the lathe bed and hit hook side down on the concrete. The hook broke from the shaft at its narrowest point because the tool was too hard and brittle and hadn't been stress relieved.

If you make your own hook tool from O-1, take your piece to a higher temperature (at least 500 degrees) in the oven during the tempering process so that it is more impact resistant and has a lower Rockwell hardness.

Good luck!

[Thom Sturgill]

If you are going to make your own, let me give you a warning. I made my from O-1...heated it...bent it...shaped it...ground it...heated it again and hardened it in oil...did some final sharpening...and tempered it in the oven at about 350 degrees. It was a very good tool while it lasted. While using it, I could see how the Martel offset would be helpful so you don't have to cut so straight on to the piece. Unfortunately my hook tool got bumped off the lathe bed and hit hook side down on the concrete. The hook broke from the shaft at its narrowest point because the tool was too hard and brittle and hadn't been stress relieved.

If you make your own hook tool from O-1, take your piece to a higher temperature (at least 500 degrees) in the oven during the tempering process so that it is more impact resistant and has a lower Rockwell hardness.

Good luck!

I agree that 350 was too low, but 500 is too high. About 450 gets you to light straw color. Alan Lacer suggests using a temp stick to determine that the cutting edge portion is at the right temperature. I used the oven and checked it after an hour and then raised the oven temp as I had not reached the right colors.
Secondly you may have hardened too much area - only the cutting area should have been brought to critical temperature. I have dropped mine several times without damage after tempering.

An offset hook is my next tool.

[Dick Strauss]

I have made over a dozen hook tools over the years for friends but don't claim to be an expert. I learned my lesson after the first one using O-1. I have made them from a variety of materials including heavy concrete nails, O-1, spring steel, etc.

I want to save folks the hassle of making their own hook tool only to destroy their creation by accident. Tempering at 400-500 degrees produces about the same toughness with similar hardness. For folks that are learning, it is better to err on the 500 degree side than 400 degree side. Are most folks going to notice the difference in tempering to Rockwell hardness Rc 62 (@ 400 degrees) verus Rc 61 (@ 450 degrees) versus Rc 60 (@ 500 degrees)? If it makes the tool just a bit more robust without sacrficing much in the way of edge holding capability, I'm all for it. Working with all metals is a balancing act between edge holding and toughness. I also believe that a kitchen oven is a much more controlled way to do your tempering than a torch (with an ever changing temperature/color).

You are welcome to do it your way. I'm just trying to share my experiences so that others can learn from my mistakes.

Take care,
Dick

[allen thunem]

dick do you have any pics of your tools??
possibly a detailed tutorial??
unless of course this is your livelihood then I certainly understand

[Thom Sturgill]

Dick, i was mis-remembering the chart and thought there was a sharper drop off above 500 but I see that it only drops to 57 at 600. I also used the oven to temper, but I checked the metal color before removing the tools as I do not trust the oven setting and did not have the thermometer handy. I was also going by Alan Lacer's comment that 450-475 worked better for him than 500+

Alan Thunem, Here (http://woodturninglearn.net/handouts/ho-hooktool.html) is a link to Alan Lacer's instructions. He uses a torch to temper, I don't. I also have his video which I bought after seeing him at a symposium. Good information on making a grinding wheel and material sources. I have only used O1 drill rod for the hook tools but tried A2 for some point tools years ago.

[Olaf Vogel]

I've used the Martel hook tool. Not sure I really figured it out all the well, but it worked on certain scenarios.
But like above, I had a catch and it broke. This was on very wet green wood.

Lots of promise and I would like to try again. But I'll try making my own next round.
Olaf

[Dick Strauss]

Allen,
I mistated my experience a bit but have made over a dozen tools (maybe 15-20?) of various sizes and shapes. My process to is similar to that of Alan Lacer. I prefer to have fire bricks surrounding the piece to help it heat up faster and maintain the heat while shaping it. I also prefer to shape the hook tool around something round when you are bending the hot hook. Old chrome plated needle nose pliers work well and offer a variety of radii to use while working (they also start the cone shape you need for later sharpening). So, I clamp the one end of the O1 away from the flame in a vise, bring up one pair of pliers to act as a template, and use the other pliers as a bending tool while keeping the steel is hot. It helps to have an extra set of hands.

Tempering with a torch is kind of difficult for most folks especially as we get older and our vision is less acute. The smaller the tool, the faster the color change while tempering (given the same torch heat). So, it is much easier to temper to a given temperature in the oven (with a known good thermometer). The steel shoud be left to cool with the oven door closed. It will give off very little odor as long as the oil is cleaned off the O1 before tempering.

This part is a little OT but you may find it interesting...

Fire bricks also come in very handy if you want to silver solder a HSS tip on a steel rod/square. A buddy and I made scrapers with 1/8" thick HSS soldered to 5/8" steel squares (with one end turned round to fit inside a tool handle).

If you don't want to solder, you can cut HSS using your dremel with wheel or angle grinder from your old planer blades. Because the planer blades are hard on HSS or cobalt drill bits, I prefer to make a slot in the bit using the dremel/angle grinder just wide enough for the screw to pass through the slot. Then you just need to drill and tap the flat piece of steel using your DP and you have a teardrop scraper tool or whatever shape you desire. The HSS portion is removed from the steel and sharpened off the tool.

I hope I've started you thinking about using your old "scrap" planer blades...

[robert baccus]

Tom, believe it or not but I am still using a cutter head(woodcut) that is 7 years old with a new one in the drawer. I do 90% of my sharpening with a diamond tapered stick and an occasional pass with a dremel. Also after trying I can report that they are breakproof. Also only sharpen the inside. Some people try to cut with the tip but they cut much faster with the hook side in a starter hole---big shavings.