Has anyone removed the base from a Chosera or similar?

[Malcolm Schweizer]

My 5000 Chosera finally arrived after over a month of waiting, and I picked it up from the PO on the way out of town. I got back and just opened it- UGH!!! They sent the one with the plastic base on it. I hate the plastic base. The ad clearly said WITHOUT base! I could live with it, but it doesn't fit in my storage drawer, and- well I just don't like it. Has anyone tried removing it? I thought I might saw it off and then flatten the stone to remove any glue. I don't even care if that side remains glue saturated and can't be used. It also screws up my jig I was making with a sliding bar that would hold five stones all in a row so I can quickly go from grit to grit.

I just tried heating just the base with hot water, but was afraid to damage the stone so I didn't try very hard. I think I am going to take it to the shop and use a table saw set to leave a fraction of a mm and then sand the remaining off.

Why not send it back? It would cost a lot and take months to get another one. I would rather just make do with this one.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Update: I got it off. I turned it upside-down and filled the base with hot water, then used a butter knife to pry it off. More hot water, more prying- it is off. By the way, they just glop glue on and stick it down. The glue is very rubbery. I was expecting evenly spread epoxy. This looks like hot-melt in a big glob.

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[Don Kingston]

Maybe you can resell the base on ebay as a rare base with no stone hahaha just kidding. Thought of that after reading the next post about the saw

[Malcolm Schweizer]

That's funny! Let's see...

RARE AND COLLECTABLE Chosera stone base. (Stone not included) Naniwa has stopped making the Chosera stones, thus making this little gem already rare, but this one was actually removed from the stone, showing the original glue, which is included in the sale price. Even if you were to find a Chosera stone today, you would be hard-pressed to find a base without the stone attached. In fact, Chosera started offering the stones without bases some time ago, thus making the bases even more rare and collectable.

Starting bid: $150 Buy it now: $300

:D

[Malcolm Schweizer]

By the way, on a serious note, for those wondering- the glue did very easily come off the stone with flattening. One small thing to note is they don't chamfer the edge on the bottom of the stone for obvious reasons, but a few strokes on the DMT fixed that. Also I did have to flatten it a bit more than normal for a new stone, but you'd still have to measure the amount of material I removed in microns or at least in thousandths of inches. It wasn't much, but I had to do a lot to flatten it on the glued side. That said, I'm pretty sure what happened is that in trying to remove the glue with the DMT flattening plate, the glue was causing the stone to be elevated on one end where a little glop of glue was being stubborn, so I may have been abrading at a very slight angle- again speaking in minute terms here. The stone is fine now- no glue spots or remnants of glue. I would take a picture but it would just be a picture of a 5000 Chosera without a base attached. Nothing to see here. :-)

[Brian Holcombe]

did it spend that month in customs? I have ordered quite a few things from japan over the past year and it'll either be here in 3 days or take forever.....

[Malcolm Schweizer]

No, it came regular mail, and for me that means it comes by boat. The boat leaves from Florida and takes a week to get here, and then it takes a while for (a) customs to inspect the container and (b) the post office to decide to unload it. Also they wait until they get enough to fill a container before they put it on the boat, and the boat only sails once a week. Usually once I see a package is in Jacksonville, FL, I can expect another 2 to 3 weeks before I get that glorious yellow slip in my mailbox that says I have a package to pick up.

[Don Kingston]

This is classic. Had me rolling.



That's funny! Let's see...

RARE AND COLLECTABLE Chosera stone base. (Stone not included) Naniwa has stopped making the Chosera stones, thus making this little gem already rare, but this one was actually removed from the stone, showing the original glue, which is included in the sale price. Even if you were to find a Chosera stone today, you would be hard-pressed to find a base without the stone attached. In fact, Chosera started offering the stones without bases some time ago, thus making the bases even more rare and collectable.

Starting bid: $150 Buy it now: $300

:D

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Update: I got it off. I turned it upside-down and filled the base with hot water, then used a butter knife to pry it off. More hot water, more prying- it is off. By the way, they just glop glue on and stick it down. The glue is very rubbery. I was expecting evenly spread epoxy. This looks like hot-melt in a big glob.

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Well, that explains why my 1000 SuperStone is so flexy between the base and the stone.

Good to know these can be removed; I just ordered a 3k Cho, and now I'm wondering if I'll be in the same boat. From your description, I hazard to guess it might be the same place…

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I was quite surprised at the way it is glued. Water would get under there and stay, and funk could even grow there. Also this does nothing for the stone as far as keeping it flat. I don't know why they don't just give you a separate base.

If you do what I did, the water needs to be boiled on the stove and poured in the base hot. It takes a few times for the heat to penetrate. Keep pouring the water out and more scalding hot water in- like every minute. Then pull it with your hands until you can get a knife in. Once the knife is in you're almost home. Note that on mine when the glue separated at one point it made a pop, and I was sure I had just turned my stone into two 5k naguras! No damage. I just used the stone to sharpen two knives. Love this stone; very darned close to the finish I get from a Shapton glass 8k.

I got got mine on Amazon. The photo showed a base, but it clearly said "no base."

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[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Ah, different seller but very similar listing from what I went with. I'm hoping the 3k fits well between my 8k Snow White and 1k sigma when I need something between.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I'd be tempted to use your hot water method, but first slicing the "lip" off the stone side of the plastic base, to assist in getting a pry under there. Guess I'll see if mine comes with or without base when it arrives.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Ah, different seller but very similar listing from what I went with. I'm hoping the 3k fits well between my 8k Snow White and 1k sigma when I need something between.

I have been using the 1k and 3k Chosera followed by an 8k Shapton. You will be fine. I am a believer that slow grit progression takes less time than jumping grit more than 3kper step. I am not saying you can't or even that you shouldn't jump large steps- just saying it is faster if you have the stones. Now I have a 400, 1k, 3k, and 5k Chosera and 8k and 15k Shapton. The 15 is mainly for straight razors. Still a 1k, 3k, 8k setup is fine, especially with these.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Yep, my 3K arrived today, and sure enough, it's got a base. Guess I'll have a go at your method, Malcom!

[Matthew N. Masail]

Malcom, Thank you for posting this! It prompted me to remove the basses from my 800 and 3000, it took some "cutting" with a thin paint spatula after the boiling water, the glue they use is strong! but all in all it worked really well. I reglued them to playwood basses with super7, I hated the plastic basses but like a base on my stones.

[Marc Seguin]

For anyone else who is contemplating doing this, try soaking the stone in alcohol. Methyl or Isopropyl would work and not damage the stone at all. Just pour whatever is left back into the bottle. No grunt work required.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Glad to help. Note to those wishing to try this: use BOILING hot water, and keep refreshing with more hot water every few minutes. It takes a few pours until the base heats up enough to come off, and a little prying. Don't force it- just gently maintain pressure, and try more hot water.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Interestingly enough, unlike Malcom's observations, mine was chamfered on the bottom, although I'm sure I'll remove some of that in flattening the back side.

I took a small carving knife, and removed the "lip" along the side of the stone that the stone was furthest from (the one I had wasn't quite centered, so one side had a bit more room, so it was easier to cut into without cutting into the stone) This allowed me unfettered access to slide something under the stone.

I poured hot water, not quite boiling into the base as Malcom suggests. The trick for me was not to try and pry upward at all - I poured the water in, let it sit a bit, and then worked a thin paint scraper type thing between the stone as much as it would go, concentrating on forcing it in between, and not prying at all. Then re-did the hot water in the base of the stone thing, let it sit a tiny bit, pour out the water and resume. As the glue softened, I could rotate the knife back and forth in the crack between the stone and base, slowly working my way through the glue. Again not prying - a little bit of an attempt to pop off the stone made a tiny chip in the side. I think it took three hot water applications for me to get the knife worked through all the glue, and then the stone pretty much dropped off the base.

I missed Marc's suggestion before I used this method. The stone still has plenty of adhesive on the back, as I haven't cleaned it yet, and I tried denatured alcohol from the hardware store, as that was all I have handy, on the adhesive left on the back. It seems to have absolutely no effect on the adhesive on there. I think we've got some IPA somewhere around here, I guess I can give that a try.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I just scraped the adhesive off and lapped the rest out with a beater diamond stone ( you could use sandpaper on a block), I wouldn't try complex chemicals on stones! we don't know what the binder actually is...

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Update: Just got an 800 with base and tried using the heat gun to the bottom of the base. It came off in less than a minute with no real force. This time the glue is harder to get off and appears more like an epoxy than a hot melt. Not sure if it is a different glue or just a different batch that came out a little harder.

My 600 and 2000 are still at mom's house and I told her to ship them next time she sends something. When I get them I plan to do an all- out comparison. In the meantime now that I have the 800 I may do a video just of that stone compared to the 1000 for anyone wanting to know which to get and how much different the end result is.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

All out comparison of base removal?

Used the 3k a lot today… I'm honestly thinking of replacing the Snow White and sigma …

[Brian Holcombe]

The 3k is gorgeous, I really love the action on the stone with that. I must say I see it recommended to soak 5-10 minutes, but I prefer a very quick soak because I like the surface of the stone to remain very firm.

i have the 13k sigma and really like it...but not nearly as much as I like the Shinden suita that David recommended for me, but mostly because I prefer the matte finish it produces to the mirror produced by the sigma.

i like the sigma better than the Snow White, I find it more consistent with how it feels on the surface and it doesn't get loaded as quickly. That being said, the Snow White is a nice stone, it is light years ahead of the stone I was using previously.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

All out comparison of base removal?

Used the 3k a lot today… I'm honestly thinking of replacing the Snow White and sigma …

Ha! No I mean of all the grits.

[Brian Holcombe]

How do you guys like your 1k? I like it after a short soak, not a long one.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I changed my thinking on Choseras and now I soak them 5 to 10 minutes as opposed to splash and go. It almost seems they have opened up after use and absorb more water- but it could just be me.

Also I never let them dry laying on the counter on the wide side. I turn them up on the thin side or put them in a drying rack so they can dry more evenly. I believe irregular drying is the reason for the reports of cracking. To be fair, I have no scientific evidence to back that up except that I have yet to have one crack or even craze.

As for the 1k, it leaves a very consistent finish, but seems a bit slower than the others. I see why David Weaver (I believe it was him) liked the 800 better. I need more time to play with the 800 to decide which I like better, but it cuts way faster.

[Brian Holcombe]

Interesting. I've yet to try the 800.

I dry them on their thin sides as well, but I do this in the shop, so I just put them on an old 2x4 cut off.

I have tried a longer soak and I find i get a very quick slurry but the stones load up quicker than I prefer. On a short soak, they load, but I can move the swarf out of the way more easily with the blade.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I changed my thinking on Choseras and now I soak them 5 to 10 minutes as opposed to splash and go. It almost seems they have opened up after use and absorb more water- but it could just be me.

Also I never let them dry laying on the counter on the wide side. I turn them up on the thin side or put them in a drying rack so they can dry more evenly. I believe irregular drying is the reason for the reports of cracking. To be fair, I have no scientific evidence to back that up except that I have yet to have one crack or even craze.

As for the 1k, it leaves a very consistent finish, but seems a bit slower than the others. I see why David Weaver (I believe it was him) liked the 800 better. I need more time to play with the 800 to decide which I like better, but it cuts way faster.

Indeed I also feel like my Chosera's have opened up with use, I have the 800 and the 3000, love em both. I only ever spalsh them, and they work perfectly, if a long session is to be had than I'll leave a little water sitting on top of them for a minute or two.

[Matthew N. Masail]

All out comparison of base removal?

Used the 3k a lot today… I'm honestly thinking of replacing the Snow White and sigma …



The 3k is gorgeous, I really love the action on the stone with that. I must say I see it recommended to soak 5-10 minutes, but I prefer a very quick soak because I like the surface of the stone to remain very firm.

i have the 13k sigma and really like it...but not nearly as much as I like the Shinden suita that David recommended for me, but mostly because I prefer the matte finish it produces to the mirror produced by the sigma.

i like the sigma better than the Snow White, I find it more consistent with how it feels on the surface and it doesn't get loaded as quickly. That being said, the Snow White is a nice stone, it is light years ahead of the stone I was using previously.

I'm very intrigued with what you guys have said. I use my 3k chosera as a finishing stone and it can leave a really good edge. but I do like to take it just a little more sometimes. I have not used the snow-white but based on the choseras I have it has been my plan to get one

Joshua, what you said grabbed my attention, can you explain a little more?

Brian, I had the 13k sigma and the only thing I liked about it was the edge it left, otherwise it loaded up very badly and stuck to a diamond plate with a powerful seal to a point I needed 2 hands just to rub the plate... is the snow-white the same? I had hoped it would be more like the chosera line.

[Brian Holcombe]

Did you soak the sigma? I treat it like my natural stones, which is to splash some water on it and go, no soaking.

Everything gets stuck to diamond plates, so I use those serrated looking ones (with the holes behind the plate) for flattening stones, not the big steel backed ones.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I tired soaking it, and without, it just wasn't friendly to me,

I use a Atoma 400, nothing sticks to it too much, except that 13K sigma.