Router behind a router - Home Network

[Dennis Peacock]

OK...I have ATT U-Verse. I use a parental control router that is connected to the u-verse router.
Before we went to this new Motorola NVG589 router that ATT provided us when we upgraded our u-verse, I was using an iBoss router for parental controls. They were connected via cable from the u-verse LAN port to the WAN port on the iBoss router. This worked without any configuration work on my part and it....worked. The old iBoss router gave up finally and I found Buc Tools router that was more current, faster wireless speeds and a better overall router with cheaper annual fees for parental control tables.

Since we upgraded and ATT put in this new NVG589 router, I can't seem to get this working like the instructions that came with it. The strange thing is.....I get connected fine, but internet connectivity fails on host name resolution. If I go to Google via it's IP address, I can get there. If I use just www.google.com, then it fails on host name resolution (DNS lookup).

ATT NVG580 is on 192.168.1.x, 255.255.255.0 subnet mask.....and the Buc Tools router is on 192.168.10.x, 255.255.255.0 subnet mask.

The Buc router gets it's IP address from the NVG589 ATT router.

Anybody see how to resolve this issue?

[Robert LaPlaca]

Dennis, you sure that that BUC router gets it's IP address via DHCP of the U-Verse router? Sounds like it maybe its a static 192.168.10.x/24

[Dennis Peacock]

Yes, it appears to get it from the u-verse router dhcp service as the WAN IP address on the Buc Router is: 192.168.1.200

[Robert LaPlaca]

Yes, it appears to get it from the u-verse router dhcp service as the WAN IP address on the Buc Router is: 192.168.1.200

Don't have first hand experience with the BUC, but is the ATT router plugged into the WAN port of the second router (BUC)?

[Dennis Peacock]

The Buc router comes default on a different subnet 192.168.10.x while the u-verse router is at 192.168.1.x.

Connected my cable from a LAN port on the u-verse to the WAN port on the Buc Pro router. All works well, just can't get out to the internet from the Buc router. Kind of like the NVG589 router (u-verse) is blocking it for some reason.

[Dennis Peacock]

it's only failing on DNS lookup. Looks like this:

[1] ---------------------------------[2]
AT&T U-Verse ....................... Buc Tools Router
LAN Port .............................. WAN Port

[1] is connected to the internet/tv/dsl/u-verse serivce.
[2] is connected to [1] LAN port from [2]'s WAN port

[2] has an assigned IP address of 192.168.1.200 from [1]'s DHCP server
I connect to [2] via wireless and as long as I use IP addresses to get out to the internet, it works fine. If I put in http://www.google.com it will fail on host name lookup....failing DNS

Here is the DNS from [1](u-verse) router.
Primary DNS ---- 99.99.99.53
Secondary DNS - 99.99.99.153

I will go and get the info from the Buc router.
[2] WAN DNS Server(s):152.160.81.10
[2] Default Gateway is pointing to [1]'s IP address

[Scott Shepherd]

Technically speaking, you're over my head, but I did install a router behind a router recently and on the "internal router", I made it a "bridge" if that helps any.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Dennis, as you have correctly stated you do indeed have a DNS issue with client computers connected to the BUC controlled network.. Wonder what the BUC routers DHCP server is delivering to a connected client computer? We know that the default route is correct, since you can connect via IP address to external sites.... Assuming you have a Windows computer, if you open a command session, the issue the command, ipconfig /all You should get a line that specifies the DNS Servers that are being delivered to connected clients..

[Dennis Peacock]

Robert,
My PC is getting issued a 192.168.10.171 IP address and the default gateway is the IP of the Buc Router.....192.168.10.1

[Robert LaPlaca]

Ok Dennis, I am going to suggest that you give (Gulp) AT&T U-Verse technical support a call and explain your issue with DNS resolution on the second router...

[Dennis Peacock]

Blast it all..!!!! I've posted on an AT&T Internet forum hosted by AT&T but nobody there has helped so far. ;)

[Steve Wurster]

A quick search online for the 99.99.99.53 DNS address shows that AT&T used to have issues with their DNS servers. I'm guessing that hasn't been fully resolved. Looks like some people went the easy route and use the Google DNS address (8.8.8.8).

[Greg R Bradley]

Go back to the command "ipconfig /all" that Robert referenced and give us the DNS server(s).

One of your previous posts said "[2] WAN DNS Server(s):152.160.81.10". Is that the DNS Server that your PC gets from DHCP?

It is possible that is an unusual DNS server used by the "parental control router". Their service might be doing all the DNS lookups for the service to work correctly. You're way below my expertise as I only deal with serious security devices.

Since you don't know enough about this to give the right info, it might help to manually change the DNS on your computer to something that we know works like 8.8.8.8 and see if the DNS works. That will also test if DNS will pass THROUGH the ATT router.

You aren't trying to set this up using only wireless, right?

edited to add: I see Steve posted about changing DNS Servers for the ATT router while I posted. I would consider that only if your PC does not work right when connected directly to the ATT router. I think you said that works. You can test DNS performance with GRC's DNS Benchmark but don't think you need to worry about that now.

[Curt Harms]

Dennis you're WAY over my head. I'm running 2 routers but they're both on the same subnet. if you're not aware of it, there's a site useful for home/small biz ISP and networking issues.

http://www.dslreports.com/forums/all

There appear to be two AT&T related forums. I hope you can find an answer there.

[Greg R Bradley]

Thought about this a bit more and have to guess that the BUC router probably does all DNS lookups for the LAN. That means it must be the the DNS server for any computers set up on the LAN, 192.168.10.1 according to your info above. If so they certainly block DNS from passing through the BUC unit so you can't change the DNS server on a pc and go around the system.

Step 1: connect to the new ATT router and make sure it works properly. run IPCONFIG /all and write down IP, Subnet, Gateway, DHCP Server, DNS Server. If this doesn't work consider contacting ATT. If this all works, don't contact them as they almost certainly are not your problem.

Step 2: Change DNS server of PC to 8.8.8.8 and see if it still works - AKA easy test to see if DNS will pass through ATT router. Don't forget to change it back to DHCP aka "Auto Assign" or similar.

Step 3: Connect the WAN port of the BUC to a LAN port of the ATT Router.

Step 4: Connect your PC to a LAN port of the BUC and run IPCONFIG /all and write down IP, Subnet, Gateway, DHCP Server, DNS Server.

Post the info.

I'm not quite clear on the sequence in the first post and what hardware was changed when the problem occurred. Was the BUC installed and working and it only had a problem after the ATT router was changed?

[Dennis Peacock]

Greg,
I'm not totally clueless here. :)
I can't pass you the correct info IF I don't know what you are wanting. :D
The ATT router is and has been working perfectly....both wired and wireless. DNS works fine on ATT router as well. I'm simply trying to replace my old iBoss parental control router with a new router with much better wireless speeds and capabilities. The old router was working UNTIL ATT changed out the old U-Verse setup with the new Motorola NVG589 router.

I am at work right now but I'm willing to do what all you suggest...in the mean time, I'm conversing with people on the AT&T Internet Forum section about this as well as conversing via email with Buc Tools support.

I'm simply trying to tap the knowledgeable resources here on SMC about this to see if anybody has a solution to this issue. I am learning through all this but it's slow learning by force. ;)

[Tom Stenzel]

Hi Chris,

This is over my head too but have you seen

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/17734
It looks like the info needed to set up the Motorola box.

-Tom

[paul cottingham]

Set up the internal router as a bridge.
If you set them both up as routers, they must be on separate networks. Like 192.168.1.x and 192.168.2.x the third field (or octet) here designated by the 1 and the 2 -must- be different. The router should route between them. If not, you may need to set a static route. Doing it set up as routers mean the two networks may not be able to communicate back and forth. The inside one will be able to see the network the outside one is on, but not vice versa without some dancing. I could probably help setting up the routing, but it depends on the router.
seriously, bridge the networks.

[Dennis Peacock]

Set up the internal router as a bridge.
If you set them both up as routers, they must be on separate networks. Like 192.168.1.x and 192.168.2.x the third field (or octet) here designated by the 1 and the 2 -must- be different. The router should route between them. If not, you may need to set a static route. Doing it set up as routers mean the two networks may not be able to communicate back and forth. The inside one will be able to see the network the outside one is on, but not vice versa without some dancing. I could probably help setting up the routing, but it depends on the router.
seriously, bridge the networks.

Paul,
Thank you. Bridge the networks...if that's what I need to do, then I'll research how to do that and give it a try.

[paul cottingham]

What kind of routers are they? What models, and which firmwares? If you give me that info, I can try to look it up for you.

[Dennis Peacock]

What kind of routers are they? What models, and which firmwares? If you give me that info, I can try to look it up for you.

U-Verse - Motorola NVG589 really new...only been installed in the last 3 months
Buc Tools - I don't know as I'm at work. I have the Buc Tools Pro router.

[Dennis Peacock]

Issue resolved.
AT&T router was rejecting the DNS request from the Buc router. The tech support guy from Buc Tools was spot on, remoted in, and fixed the issue.

Thanks everyone for listening to my whining and complaining. :)

[Phil Thien]

Glad it is working.

I typically stick the NVG589's into bridge mode.

Here is instructions on doing that, should this come up again:

https://forums.att.com/t5/Features-and-How-To/How-to-put-the-Motorola-NVG589-in-bridge-mode-or-as-close-as-you/m-p/3552057#M39255

[paul cottingham]

Cool. Seriously, the best way to do it is to bridge them, especially if you don't want to learn how to insert a static route into a network. I'm glad it's working!

[Rick Potter]

I wonder if anyone else thought this thread was about routers?

Boy, do I feel dumb. Good thing I am used to it.

[Dennis Peacock]

I wonder if anyone else thought this thread was about routers?

Boy, do I feel dumb. Good thing I am used to it.

LOL..!!!!! Nobody thought this was about routers......but it was about..........routers. :) ;) :p