Finding Cabinet Workers in Connecticut - And can this cabinet be rebuilt?

[Dan Mages]

Hi.

I am hoping for a little help with a cabinet issue. The oven cabinet you see here houses a single 24" oven in a 42" wide cabinet. We want to replace the oven with a standard 30" double oven. The biggest issue is what to do with the cabinet. I could try to replace the cabinet with two new ones, but then I have to mess with the sofit and the cabinets to the side. The cabinet itself is very well built, so I am hoping a little rebuilding will do the trick. There is a mortised in shelf above the oven, a partition to the right side of the oven, and it sits on a shelf below. Is it possible to remove the face frame, the vertical partition and the shelf below the oven and then mortise in a new partition further to the right? Any thoughts? I have more pictures of the interior, if that is useful.

Dan

[Rich Riddle]

I have rebuilt cabinets in the past and found it's better to simply make a new cabinet with rare exception. Since you will be changing both width and height it's hard to contemplate it being easier to modify. It would likely cost more to have a cabinet maker modify than build a new one.

[Jim Andrew]

I have done it both ways, main thing is if you can get the cabinet out and do without it for a while. If you can't do without it, better just get someone to build a new one.

[William A Johnston]

Dan post some additional pics plus make a model of ur new oven. I would keep your cabs and modify for sure if you have tools.

[Sam Murdoch]

You might consider my idea a waste of space but for ease of reconstruction I would -

Use the full width of the existing oven space as the area for the new unit.

You would then need "only" -

1) Cut the door to the right to be used as a base cabinet door.

2) Cut out the vertical partition as much (but no more than ) needed and add a new full width shelf (or a partial shelf supported on cleats that aligns with the existing shelf to the left).

3) Build a new face frame section that trims out the oven area. You will likely end up with wide stiles and a wide top and/or bottom rail. Maybe you can add a trim detail or another layer of flat stock to picture frame the new oven and minimize the look of the wide face frame.

I think this will be the easiest way to blend the new and the old without major rework and still have it look as one intended cabinet.

[Steve Kohn]

I'd have the carcass rebuilt as desired and cut down the existing doors to fit. If the coloring on the new face frame is a little off, the doors should cover most of that.

[Dan Mages]

Dan post some additional pics plus make a model of ur new oven. I would keep your cabs and modify for sure if you have tools.

Here are some additional photos and some measurements to better help you understand what I am looking at.

Picture #1 is the area above the oven. #2 is the area below the oven, and #3 is the area right of the oven.

I have modified a picture with measurements and the locations of the dividers. My ignorant, armchair woodworker plan would be to pull off the face frame and remove the two dividers marked in red. A new divider would be fashioned roughly where the blue line is located. A new cherry face frame would be made to match the new doors I plan on ordering.

The average 30" double oven requires an opening approximately 28.5" x 51.5" There is 59" from the top divider and the bottom of the cabinet, so there is plenty of space there. I might even have space for a small drawer underneath for shallow pans.

[Keith Weber]

Wow! There's actually people that still have gold appliances? I haven't seen one of those in decades. Reminds me of the days when my parents made me wear plaid pants and shirts with huge collars.

[Doug Garson]

How about the obvious? Just Google it. http://www.yellowbook.com/s/cabinet-makers/new-haven-connecticut/

[scott vroom]

Dan, is this the same kitchen you are planning to reface? http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?227223-Advice-for-Applying-Veneer-to-Cabinet-Face-Frame&highlight=

If it were mine I'd build a new cabinet custom designed for the new double oven. Your "fix-it" plan would put the lower oven too close to the floor, bad ergonomics IMO.

[Dan Mages]

How about the obvious? Just Google it. http://www.yellowbook.com/s/cabinet-makers/new-haven-connecticut/

Listings in the Yellow Book does not necessarily mean competence. I am hoping for some more specific leads.


Dan, is this the same kitchen you are planning to reface? http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?227223-Advice-for-Applying-Veneer-to-Cabinet-Face-Frame&highlight=

If it were mine I'd build a new cabinet custom designed for the new double oven. Your "fix-it" plan would put the lower oven too close to the floor, bad ergonomics IMO.

Most double oven cabinets have the bottom of the oven 8" off the floor. With the "fix-it" plan, it might be 4" off the floor. LOML is short and may appreciate the lower height of the oven.

[scott vroom]

Most double oven cabinets have the bottom of the oven 8" off the floor. With the "fix-it" plan, it might be 4" off the floor. LOML is short and may appreciate the lower height of the oven.

If you ever sell your home, a non-standard installation would likely turn off some buyers. I've never found expediency a good reason to avoid complying with generally accepted standards. But it's your house, your money, and you can certainly do as you wish :)

[Rich Riddle]

If you ever sell your home, a non-standard installation would likely turn off some buyers. I've never found expediency a good reason to avoid complying with generally accepted standards. But it's your house, your money, and you can certainly do as you wish :)
My belief as well. During our kitchen renovation, the standard height given to us for a double oven was between 12" - 14" off the floor. At 4" you would barely meet the height of the toe kick strip. This is one of those situations when you either pay now or pay later. You pay now in the price of the renovation correctly done or you pay later in a reduced offer price. People will notice an oven on the floor.

[William A Johnston]

Dan, after looking at ur additional pics I think you would be better off removing the existing millwork on that section only and building a new piece in its place and like others have said stay within the oven specs from the floor to bottom of oven. U could easily build in some tray dividers. I would place the oven on the right side so you have ur counter top as a landing area for safety reasons. Sometimes the hard way is actually simpler when you get started. I'm sure you could find a millwork shop that could drill ur hinge holes so you could use cup hinges with plastic dowels in the doors. Probably even have room below the oven for a nice size drawer. Good luck with your decision and keep us posted.

[Doug Garson]

Listings in the Yellow Book does not necessarily mean competence. I am hoping for some more specific leads.

True and if I were you and wasn't in position to do it myself I'd look for some leads to find a good cabinet maker also but none of the other replies have addressed your basic question "how to find a cabinet maker". Much of the advice is good and could be used to help evaluate a potential candidate but first you need to find one. I assume you have canvassed your friends, coworkers, neighbours etc to ask if they or anyone they know have any leads. You could visit a building supply center and ask if they can recommend someone. It's a relatively small job so my guess is you would be better off with a retired guy working part time or an experienced hobbyist rather than a big company (so maybe the Yellow Book might not be the best source). Maybe check any local woodworking clubs or high school shop teachers. Of course if you choose not to use a licensed company there are issues like warranty, insurance etc but again it's a small job so the risk is relatively small.

[Dan Mages]

Dan, after looking at ur additional pics I think you would be better off removing the existing millwork on that section only and building a new piece in its place and like others have said stay within the oven specs from the floor to bottom of oven. U could easily build in some tray dividers. I would place the oven on the right side so you have ur counter top as a landing area for safety reasons. Sometimes the hard way is actually simpler when you get started. I'm sure you could find a millwork shop that could drill ur hinge holes so you could use cup hinges with plastic dowels in the doors. Probably even have room below the oven for a nice size drawer. Good luck with your decision and keep us posted.

That is a very good point bout having the oven on the right side.


My belief as well. During our kitchen renovation, the standard height given to us for a double oven was between 12" - 14" off the floor. At 4" you would barely meet the height of the toe kick strip. This is one of those situations when you either pay now or pay later. You pay now in the price of the renovation correctly done or you pay later in a reduced offer price. People will notice an oven on the floor.

I'm sorry for not being clearer. Most double oven cabinets have an 8" drawer below the oven. With the 59" height to the top divider, I will probably have enough space at the bottom for a 4" drawer.

[Peter Quinn]

I'm a cabinet maker in CT, IME there are a few levels of this trade here. There are installers that don't make anything, or make very minimal "end of the run" type filler stuff , basically buy factory made stuff and install it, sell themselves as cabinet makers and or designers....keeps the cost down. End of the day the customer gets cabinets at a price they can afford, win win. There are some stock and semi custom outfits around, margins are low so they focus on new built ins and whole kitchens, small jobs are not their forte or focus. And there are high end custom cabinet makers that focus on serving the great wealthy communities that support our trade in this area. I'm sort of in that group. You are in a hard spot with that particular project. Most guys I've worked with wouldn't touch that sort of job with a 20' pole. Not enough money in it to put gas in the truck. Customer comes to me with that project.....I'm not calling him back. From a professional perspective, and not to hurt your feelings, that cabinet is a wreck, I'm doubting you will find a professional in this area to touch it. Easier (and cheaper) to demo it and get a proper box made that fits the appliance. If your a DIY'r but not set up to make cabinets you might look into a ready to assemble option, Ikea is one example. I'll stand behind the suggestion that you stick to standard installation dimensions.

If you are intent having the existing box modified you probably want to look for a handyman/carpenter type. I've heard too many stories about guys who say they make cabinets but are much closer to butchers with a table saw, I'm sure there are also some decent people around but can't give you a name in your area. Thats a hard connection to make as its a slim subset that is both qualified to make professional mods to existing boxes they didn't create and willing to do so. I'd get a dumpster and start drawing up the new cabinet. Same advice I'd give my own mother.

[Dan Mages]

I'm a cabinet maker in CT, IME there are a few levels of this trade here. There are installers that don't make anything, or make very minimal "end of the run" type filler stuff , basically buy factory made stuff and install it, sell themselves as cabinet makers and or designers....keeps the cost down. End of the day the customer gets cabinets at a price they can afford, win win. There are some stock and semi custom outfits around, margins are low so they focus on new built ins and whole kitchens, small jobs are not their forte or focus. And there are high end custom cabinet makers that focus on serving the great wealthy communities that support our trade in this area. I'm sort of in that group. You are in a hard spot with that particular project. Most guys I've worked with wouldn't touch that sort of job with a 20' pole. Not enough money in it to put gas in the truck. Customer comes to me with that project.....I'm not calling him back. From a professional perspective, and not to hurt your feelings, that cabinet is a wreck, I'm doubting you will find a professional in this area to touch it. Easier (and cheaper) to demo it and get a proper box made that fits the appliance. If your a DIY'r but not set up to make cabinets you might look into a ready to assemble option, Ikea is one example. I'll stand behind the suggestion that you stick to standard installation dimensions.

If you are intent having the existing box modified you probably want to look for a handyman/carpenter type. I've heard too many stories about guys who say they make cabinets but are much closer to butchers with a table saw, I'm sure there are also some decent people around but can't give you a name in your area. Thats a hard connection to make as its a slim subset that is both qualified to make professional mods to existing boxes they didn't create and willing to do so. I'd get a dumpster and start drawing up the new cabinet. Same advice I'd give my own mother.

Peter, I appreciate the feedback and honesty. I am not attached to keeping it. I am trying to get the job done within a modest budget and realistic expectations. You are right about the 20' pole. Most of the contractors I have spoke with won't touch the job unless they are replacing all of the cabinets. Yes, it looks a little rough, but it is in better shape than it looks. with some sanding, fresh poly, and new fronts, most of the cabinets will be ready for another 60 years.

Do you recommend IKEA cabinets? I thought they looked flimsy and likely to fail in a few years. Do you have any recommendations for shops in Connecticut where I can buy stock cabinet boxes?

[Jim Dwight]

You can't position the oven correctly without removing all the interior partitions. Trying to do that without ruining the cabinet depends on how it is constructed but is unlikely to be easy. If it is put together with drywall screws, for instance, you can't just saw them off with a reciprocating saw. Nails you can. It's going to be more work and expense to try and save the outside of the cabinet. Easier to replace it. If you have it constructed ahead of time it shouldn't be more than a day to pull the old one out and slide the new one in. Rebuilding in place would mean multiple days of banging and mess in the kitchen. And in the end re-using the existing piece will compromise function and appearance.

Once you clarified that you want to change the doors anyway, the old cabinet would be toast in my book. The only reason to save it would have been matching other cabinets.