Intro and First (Very) Large Project, 10ft Cherry Countertop

[Travis Bochenek]

And by "Very Large" I meant for a total greenhorn rookie like me.


I have to start off by saying that I completely love this site. The experience and knowledge is frankly so vast that it's hard to wrap your head around. I've been building up my capabilities on smaller projects and have recently been redoing our rather large finished basement. I call it my test lab as I can take a few more risks with projects down there than I would consider in the upper floors!

We recently ripped out a large terribly built and absurdly heinous bar and have been turning it into a more built in kitchenette type area. For the counter, I decided to go way above my skill level and build one out of hardwood. The dimensions are roughly 25" deep and 126" long. Luckily I live in New Hampshire and am close to a great lumber source, http://highlandhardwoods.com/

I had a few different wood species in mind but after looking through the current stock, ended up with S3S 6/4 Cherry boards. From past projects I know just how long they could be for me to fit in my SUV , phew!

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1799_zpssjoshujv.jpg

As a budding woodworking enthusiast, I didn't have the proper tools to rip the unfinished edges and joint the boards properly. You will see that in fact this project was a great excuse to by alot of new equipment. I'm also using my poor pool table as my work table, but I promise no harm was done duering the making of this counter. First up was drinking the green cool aid and picking up a Festool TS55 and Mini Vac.

After making the straight cuts, I also procured a jack plane to begin leveling the boards with the hopes of a good glue up. I'm not a pro at grading wood and learned a lesson since one of the boards was pretty crooked. It took alot of time with the jack plane to get it close.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1848_zpssgx1ow46.jpg

No another purchase was needed, a whole buncha clamps. Based on some reviews here, I picked up a bunch of cheapo's from Harbor Freight. I also grabbed a few from my local Rockler. Following additional advice from this board, I used Titebond 2 and did my first glue up with only 2 boards.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1828_zpshezjand3.jpg

Then the rest all at once (of course 24 hours later to be safe).

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1835_zps4fk6lwcb.jpg

The nice thing about the Festool vac is that with an adapter it hooked up nicely to my Rigid Random Orbital. Its such a treat to be able to work on things in the house with basically zero dust. After glue up, planing and sanding

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1837_zpsf3byvt9t.jpg

Then I trimmed the edges and did a test fit. I like it, but the wife "suggested" it would look even better (dont you like how they frame it this way) if the edges were built up. Sooo.....I went out, and grabbed more Cherry. Now I'm no pro, and I'm sure you've figure that out by now having already seen close to 100 mistakes in this thread. I decided to rip it to 2.5" wide boards and glue them to the front and 2 sides with mitred *gasp* corners. I probably shouldn't have, but it seemed like a good idea at the time.

I first clamped and glued the front. Then I added the sides, but also added pocket screws to them.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1900_zpspheoixo8.jpg

Here it is being test fit
Terribly blury pic http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1904_zpsxqryvngj.jpg
Slightly less terrible pic
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1908_zpsrdlxudy9.jpg

Before finishing I wanted to put some extra detail into it (which I really had no business doing). I love the look of mitre splines and read about ways I could add them in after everything had already been glued up. I decided to use some white oak and acquired a Mini Dozuki, a chisel and a prayer.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1921_zps1ta3kkcg.jpg

So last night I've started finishing and will update this further. It involves Charles Neils Blotch Control. I'm also afraid to mentioned that I did need to use tint on the cherry, as it hard to at least come close to matching another feature I did down there, which is a wood plank accent wall with a flat screen mounted to it. I know, and I've been hesitant to post such an atrocity :-/.

[Lee Schierer]

I hope you allowed for seasonal wood movement and didn't glue those end boards directly to the ends. The 25" width will move quite a bit and it is likely that the glue will fail or the top will cup.

Your best bet if you did glue it is to finish all surfaces with equal amounts of finish. This may not stop the cupping or glue failure. Or remove the end board and allow for wood movement. Do a search for breadboard ends to see what should be done with your edging.

[Andrew Hughes]

I like wooden counter tops.I removed something similar in my house.The wife wanted granite to match everthing so I didn't get my way.The cherry will look great ESP after it darkens over time.
I don't know if the long grain on the ends was a great idea,Mother nature doent like it when you break her laws,She may let you slide on it for a little while.But something gonna happen someday.
you may want to consider changing that detail before all the finish work is done?Good luck Aj

[Travis Bochenek]

Thanks guys, I had a feeling it could be an issue. I have indeed begun to layer my finish on, and have put it on all sides of the piece. I'm think it may not be enough considering your comments. The sides are indeed glued, and I had expected some movement so there are 2 pocket screws going into each side from the table. I used them almost as clamps when gluing and then backed them off afterwards so they weren't holding them tightly. I suppose if they move even a little though, the mitred corners will be out of whack regardless of the spline. Darn you mother nature.

[Travis Bochenek]

I have also yet to install it on the cabinets. Would it help if I at least gave space for movement at the wall? I am also planning on installing using large washers, keeping the screws loose. Anyway, here are some finish pics, at least it will look good until I have to redo it :p

As mentioned, I actually built an accent wall using oak ply cut into strips. The bottom 2/3rd'd are attached to a base on wheels which allow that portion to roll away. I did it this way because the hot water heater is behind it along with other pipes I need access to. The top portion is attached to drywall. It's secured with several turnbuckle fittings. This is an older picture, since then I've repainted all of the walls.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/basement10_zps6839c827.jpg

So my better half and I "agreed" to commit blasphemy and match the counter close to it. I used transtint Cordovan on that, then several coats of dewaxed shellac and gf poly. I made up a few test pieces and also utilized a little dark mahogany. Last night I eased the edges by hand using a rigid sanding block hitting them from a few angles followed by hand. I then put two coats of the Charles Neil blotch control on it. This stuff ROCKS. In my test pieces, blotches were very very obvious. As you can see by the pics below, it really worked well.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1917_zpswpzgknc8.jpg

After dye
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1930_zpshyufaehm.jpg

After shellac before sanding
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1934_zpsa48nhwue.jpg

And finally after sanding and the first coat of Arm-R-Seal (top and bottom)
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1946_zpsjhckwlev.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1950_zpsa06bnhnt.jpg

And this one is without the pool table light on.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1955_zpsclrsoyfi.jpg
I'm very happy with the color and how beautifully the blotch control worked. I love using these dye's and seeing the gorgeous grain. This is my first time using Arm-R-Seal and I also really like it. I'm using Gloss and will keep that finish, applying several more coats. I applied it ala WoodWhisperer style using tshirt rags and it went on very nicely. The depth and clarity of this combination of products is just awesome, and I know will get even better before it's done. Once its cured for a few weeks following the final coat, I'd love anyones recommendation on a wax. It's not a wet bar but will certainly see moisture and while nothing will prevent real damage, I assume wax will help. I was also hoping that the splines would resist the dye a bit but alas it didn't which is not a big deal to me. If and when issues arise from my bonehead move with the sides, I will certainly be able to reproduce the finish.

[John TenEyck]

I think you are in for a very unpleasant surprise down the road, probably next Summer if your house isn't air conditioned, a little longer if it is. Too bad after all that hard work. It'll be a hard learned lesson, but I bet you won't do that again. The next time you have some light colored accents that you don't want the dye to color, seal them first with something the dye won't wet. Shellac will work when using Transtint in water. As for wax, it won't add any protection and will show water rings, etc. There's no benefit. Arm-R-Seal is one tough finish all by itself.

John

[mike mcilroy]

1st big project came out nice looking. We all learn something the hard way. Doesn't mean you didn't do a nice job.

[Jim Matthews]

Sweet. That's an advanced skill, getting a deep finish in fresh Cherry.

I've got a nice set of planes to trade for
your KEF LS50, when you're ready.

[Jebediah Eckert]

Sweet. That's an advanced skill, getting a deep finish in fresh Cherry.

I've got a nice set of planes to trade for
your KEF LS50, when you're ready.

Good eye Jim. That's one of my favorite parts of the forum when people pick out small background details of a picture that has nothing to do with the main focus. When I post a picture now I try to zoom in on it and study it like a piece of fine art to see what is in the background "just to make sure."

I can't comment on the OP wood movement but the fresh cherry finish and dye looks even and deep. The whole project looks real nice, what an addition to the already beautiful kitchen. I have trouble working with large stock like that, keeping It straight, jointing, joining etc. Awesome job on the key doing it by hand.

I am getting ready to make a small raised "bar" on a short countertop. I'm going to use cherry as well, I have a bunch from a couple of trees I milled a few years ago. I love the trim and key's on your top but I guess I will pass on it based on the comments here.

I will have to "stage" a bunch of treasure's in the background of picture if I post. Hopefully I have something that will peak Jim's interests. He is a great one to barter with!

[Prashun Patel]

Beautiful. I would address the expansion issue now. You can score the seams on the ends and pry them enough to release the glue bond. Then you can attach them from underneath using loose pocket screws.

if that is daunting, then you can cut relief kerfs on the end boards with your dozuki. It is not ideal, but a little suboptimal damage control now may help a bigger fail later.

[Travis Bochenek]

I think you are in for a very unpleasant surprise down the road, probably next Summer if your house isn't air conditioned, a little longer if it is. Too bad after all that hard work. It'll be a hard learned lesson, but I bet you won't do that again. The next time you have some light colored accents that you don't want the dye to color, seal them first with something the dye won't wet. Shellac will work when using Transtint in water. As for wax, it won't add any protection and will show water rings, etc. There's no benefit. Arm-R-Seal is one tough finish all by itself.

John

Thanks for the tip on the spline, I will definitely go that route next time. While the basement is a full walkout, it always stays cool year round, unless the gas fireplace is going. I know this wont stop normal seasonal humidity swings though.


1st big project came out nice looking. We all learn something the hard way. Doesn't mean you didn't do a nice job.

Really kind words, very much appreciated


Sweet. That's an advanced skill, getting a deep finish in fresh Cherry.

I've got a nice set of planes to trade for
your KEF LS50, when you're ready.

Hah, thanks, but I simply credit the people on here who've paved the way and taken the time to educate the rest of us. Great eye on the speaker! I picked those up a few months ago after listening to them just once. They sounded so transparent and brought so much emotion that I felt like someone punched me in the gut!


Good eye Jim. That's one of my favorite parts of the forum when people pick out small background details of a picture that has nothing to do with the main focus. When I post a picture now I try to zoom in on it and study it like a piece of fine art to see what is in the background "just to make sure."

I can't comment on the OP wood movement but the fresh cherry finish and dye looks even and deep. The whole project looks real nice, what an addition to the already beautiful kitchen. I have trouble working with large stock like that, keeping It straight, jointing, joining etc. Awesome job on the key doing it by hand.

I am getting ready to make a small raised "bar" on a short countertop. I'm going to use cherry as well, I have a bunch from a couple of trees I milled a few years ago. I love the trim and key's on your top but I guess I will pass on it based on the comments here.

I will have to "stage" a bunch of treasure's in the background of picture if I post. Hopefully I have something that will peak Jim's interests. He is a great one to barter with!

Haha, yep it's great to see how often people share more than one hobby or rather obsession. Really appreciate the great comments, I did everything in there myself with the awesome wife actually setting the tile. She's much more patient than I am with that task. Taming the large stock was indeed a task. I do plan on getting a jointer and planer at some point, and not having them now made me learn how to throw that jack plane. The upside is that I saved all of the cherry shavings in a huge box and will use it in the outdoor fireplace for kindling.


Beautiful. I would address the expansion issue now. You can score the seams on the ends and pry them enough to release the glue bond. Then you can attach them from underneath using loose pocket screws.

if that is daunting, then you can cut relief kerfs on the end boards with your dozuki. It is not ideal, but a little suboptimal damage control now may help a bigger fail later.

Thanks Prashun, I've read a bunch of your other posts on here so I appreciate you stopping by my humble thread. You're right, it needs to be addressed. I'm thinking through the options here and like your ideas. The main body of the table is made up of 5 boards, then the edges are the front piece and 2 side pieces. If I'm understanding correctly, the side pieces are the culprit, and since they will prevent the wood from expanding and contracting towards and away from the wall (because their ends are glued), the only other option is for the boards to flex up or down, ruining the flatness.

Is that more or less correct?

One idea of course is to remove the glued sides and if I want to keep the mitered corners I've made, attach them only with pocket screws or some other mechanical method. I do have 2 pocket screws currently in, and could add more while it's still glued so that they hold it in relatively the same position.

I also think that the kerf idea could be plausible. Here is a picture of the underside, its not pretty, and you'll see where I utilized a few pocket holes which were abandoned.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1978_zpswbnrwlxi.jpg

What if, instead of removing the glue, I cut kerfs possibly even all the way through the side boards which mirror'd the joints between the boards. I wouldn't need to mess up the mitres in the front as they're basically contained in that fairly wide board. I've read about flexible caulk type material used on boats and could maybe even use that in the kerfs, or just leave as is, sanding and dying a bit. Does that make any sense?

[ron david]

Thanks guys, I had a feeling it could be an issue. I have indeed begun to layer my finish on, and have put it on all sides of the piece. I'm think it may not be enough considering your comments. The sides are indeed glued, and I had expected some movement so there are 2 pocket screws going into each side from the table. I used them almost as clamps when gluing and then backed them off afterwards so they weren't holding them tightly. I suppose if they move even a little though, the mitred corners will be out of whack regardless of the spline. Darn you mother nature.
It is not mother nature but the knowledge of how to work with solid materials that are derived from mother nature.
there is only one way to do it and get the problem out of the way and to feel confident and that is to fix it now. it will involve stripping and redoing the finish. it is going to be a lot easier to do it now than later;as later you will also have to repair the cracked boards and then do the ends properly. and you won't have to live with people pointing and picking at the problem and crushing your ego on the job. also make sure how you mount it to the cabinet so that it also has allowances to move. all those pocket screw are just reinforcing the glue.
the end boards are not required to hold your boards in place as long as you did a decent job of joining the boards and gluing them up; they should not flop up and down.
ron

[Andrew Hughes]

Hello Travis, I think if the glue bond was broke and the screw hole were a bit over sized you may have a good chance of keeping your miter closed.
Hopefully you work will hold out I think being in basement is in your favor.
If you do Sneek by on this one it's not good practice in the future esp if you make something for family or friend that lives some place else.My referance to Mother Nature is my way of saying wood is both Mysterious and Amazing.Aj

[Prashun Patel]

Travis, thinking more about this I don't think you should kerf. It will solve the problem and is the easiest, but won't look right. If you do it I would only do one around the middle. Doing more would be overkill and trying to make it look like a design feature wouldn't look right on imho. You would do this only as damage control and accept it looking substandard from the edges.

if it were me, I would try to pop the edges loose. You have a lot of surface underneath against which you can strike a mallet. Remove the pocket screws, tap the edges loose and then widen the leaving hole of the pocket screw and re attach. You don't need to remove the piece entirely, you just want to break the glue bond over the rear 2/3 of the edge. You can leave the littered spline in tact.

[Travis Bochenek]

Hello Travis, I think if the glue bond was broke and the screw hole were a bit over sized you may have a good chance of keeping your miter closed.
Hopefully you work will hold out I think being in basement is in your favor.
If you do Sneek by on this one it's not good practice in the future esp if you make something for family or friend that lives some place else.My referance to Mother Nature is my way of saying wood is both Mysterious and Amazing.Aj


Thanks Andrew, I agree. If the mitre's spread, I can deal with it. I could always put a metal corner guard like this on it.

308674

My biggest concern is that the main boards will bow/buckle from being locked in on the edges. My question to you and everyone else, is that If I do relief cuts all the way through the side border pieces so that they were still glued to the individual boards (4 cuts in total on each side) but not connected to each other, would that still allow for movement? I would mirror the joints of the boards on the top basically leaving several separate side pieces connected individually to their respective planks. With those side pieces connected individually by glue still prohibit movement?

I did a test cut on one of the cherry scraps that has a test finish on it with my mini dozuki to see how obvious it will be on the finished counter. I love that saw, it leaves a very clean and thin cut, and I could turn those into a subtle design cue. The cut is so thin I could barely slide a piece of 600 grit sandpaper in it. Of course if a single piece glued to the end of a single board does indeed hinder movement, then my only option is to try and remove each entire side board , clean them up and reattach with only screws as mentioned. I want to ensure that this countertop does last, staying as straight and flat as it is today. I'm willing to sacrifice perfection and aesthetics to do this.

[Travis Bochenek]

Travis, thinking more about this I don't think you should kerf. It will solve the problem and is the easiest, but won't look right. If you do it I would only do one around the middle. Doing more would be overkill and trying to make it look like a design feature wouldn't look right on imho. You would do this only as damage control and accept it looking substandard from the edges.

if it were me, I would try to pop the edges loose. You have a lot of surface underneath against which you can strike a mallet. Remove the pocket screws, tap the edges loose and then widen the leaving hole of the pocket screw and re attach. You don't need to remove the piece entirely, you just want to break the glue bond over the rear 2/3 of the edge. You can leave the littered spline in tact.


Thanks Prashun, I can try to take this route. I could potentially use my carving knife to slide in from the underside and score the bottom portion of the glue bond. Following that and the other steps you mentioned, I could apply the final few coats of Arm R Seal. I've found that it does a great job of filling subtle gaps which I thought I may have to get to with a wax pencil or wood putty. Before I put the final coat on, if I need to I would indeed use one of those to over any obvious areas. I will try to get to this today and let you know how it goes! Btw, here is a pic after the 2nd coat of Arm R Seal Gloss. Loving this stuff.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1965_zpsnwhtgras.jpg

[Brian Holcombe]

Travis,

Nice work!

To address some of your questions;

Locking across the grain is bad and will cause many issues. Best case it cracks the glue bond since this is an end-grain only glue bond (if I am not mistaken). I would take Prashun's advise and see if you can crack the bond proactively and regroup on your design.

I would not cut through the side board, it will look a bit ridiculous and people will (rightfully) ask you the purpose of doing so.

Regroup, redesign, then come back to the finishing when you are again prepared.

I made this mistake on an early project (cabinet), everyone learns it once. I did a cabinet top and wanted a flush look, fit everything precisely and glued it solid where it should have floated. It cracked straight down the center and basically trashed a beautifully bookmatched rosewood panel....live and learn.

[Travis Bochenek]

Travis,

Nice work!

To address some of your questions;

Locking across the grain is bad and will cause many issues. Best case it cracks the glue bond since this is an end-grain only glue bond (if I am not mistaken). I would take Prashun's advise and see if you can crack the bond proactively and regroup on your design.

I would not cut through the side board, it will look a bit ridiculous and people will (rightfully) ask you the purpose of doing so.

Regroup, redesign, then come back to the finishing when you are again prepared.

I made this mistake on an early project (cabinet), everyone learns it once. I did a cabinet top and wanted a flush look, fit everything precisely and glued it solid where it should have floated. It cracked straight down the center and basically trashed a beautifully bookmatched rosewood panel....live and learn.

Thanks for the kind words and feedback. I took a brief break from work and decided to give it a try. On both sides, I was able to loosen the glue bond which was visible from the top of the counter. It didn't fully detach but certainly separated and I'm hopeful that it was enough. The bond was quite strong though so to give myself an even better chance, I went ahead and made one kerf on each side right in the middle. I used my Flexcut cutting knife to mark the line then the dozuki to make the cut. I lightly sanded it and applied a bit of dye to the open areas. I'm going to hit it with a quick spray of shellac and then do the 2 final coats of Arm R Seal.

I don't actually mind the look, and there's a reason why I don't think it will stand out as an obvious afterthought. When adding the built edges, it was Sunday and the only lumber source open was Rockler and they didn't have any 10+ foot boards. So, the front is actually made up of 2 pieces which join together in the middle with a butt joint. Not truly elegant woodworking but it's barely noticeable after being sanded down and finished. Since it's in the middle, and these cuts are now in the middle of the side pieces, it almost looks intended. As mentioned its certainly not a showpiece, its for myself, and most importantly it's a learning experience that was an awesome excuse to buy more tools and dive deeper into what I now know will be a lifelong passion! Btw, I almost decided to make the most of that and do a front facing butterfly key but I thought I should exercise at least some restraint here. Here is a pic of the kerf on one of the sides

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1983_zpsedarooky.jpg

I can also try using wax or putty to hide some of it if you all think that makes sense. I wont ask for much more of your time on this and will aim to update you once it's finally complete and installed. I'm going to do the steps mentioned above and then do some final sanding. If there are any tricks to getting a nice smooth glossy finish with the Arm R Seal I'm certainly all ears though!

[Cody Colston]

It's too late now but in the future, consider making the top a few inches long then using the excess length for a mitered end. Not only will the seasonal movement be the same as the top but the grain will be continuous. I'm in the process of replacing my tile kitchen countertops with Walnut (LOML's directive) and they look great.

[Travis Bochenek]

Hi all, I wanted to give a quick response. I've been travelling extensively from work which has delayed things a bit. I was recently in Austin for a very cool event, SXSW and am writing this from Silicon Valley now.

I was able to do a few things. One of which was finally attaching the counter!
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/dfec9d4a-9e4a-4403-8069-1d580fca904c_zpsqurw6ovp.jpg

A bad picture but shows the general area.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1989_zpsdu9ab78s.jpg

A little crown detail
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/barcrown_zpsbqppowj9.jpg

As a last minute addition, I thought that furniture feet would add a bit of nice detail. Here's a test fit
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG2014_zpshglualcy.jpg

And here's an installed a painted pic. I still need to sand and recoat but am happy with the paint match.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG2029_zpsl4yirmfu.jpg

And I also added a little "Art" :-)
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG1991_zpsxejq6lwo.jpg

Since then I've also added another coat of varnish and will add one more before I do a final buffing. I promise to get better pics

[ron david]

the cut does not solve the movement problem!
ron

[Barry Dima]

Hey all,

A quick question about the movement problem. I think I get it, but in case I don't, please explain this to me like I'm five in case I don't. I see a kitchen-table build in my future, after all.

The problem is that OP has encased the entire top, both it's long grain and its end grain, with a mitered frame that's glued and screwed at the ends, yea? This move is opposed to a breadboard—using either a tongue-and-groove joint or M&T with a slightly oversize mortise—to conceal the top's end grain, which allows (with either joinery) for movement, yea?

OP, to your project, it looks aesthetically great. I'm a fan of splines (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?230107-Small-cabinet(-)%97first-hand-cut-splines!), and the colors and lines in that room come together beautifully. I hope it all works out great for you.

[Travis Bochenek]

Hey all,

A quick question about the movement problem. I think I get it, but in case I don't, please explain this to me like I'm five in case I don't. I see a kitchen-table build in my future, after all.

The problem is that OP has encased the entire top, both it's long grain and its end grain, with a mitered frame that's glued and screwed at the ends, yea? This move is opposed to a breadboard—using either a tongue-and-groove joint or M&T with a slightly oversize mortise—to conceal the top's end grain, which allows (with either joinery) for movement, yea?

OP, to your project, it looks aesthetically great. I'm a fan of splines (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?230107-Small-cabinet(-)%97first-hand-cut-splines!), and the colors and lines in that room come together beautifully. I hope it all works out great for you.


Thanks Barry, appreciate the kind words. The countertop is still perfect but it really hasn't been very long at all since finishing, so we shall see. I've in fact learned my lesson. I just completed a large coffee table made from Sipo and didn't conceal the end grain at all. You guys will be proud of me, I even used figure 8 fasteners to secure it to the base!

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG2102_zpsjtllikvm.jpg
Routed Edge
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG2126_zpsti1yj9td.jpg
Finished Top
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG2171_zpsxuzsevxs.jpg
And only pic I have of it all together, and with my son enjoying it
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/TB151/IMAG2190_zpsf7obp6n8.jpg

[John TenEyck]

You've got it. You can't rigidly attach long grain to end grain, like the OP did, w/o bad things happening when the RH changes and causes the end grain to swell/shrink. Breadboard ends allow you to mechanically attach long grain to end grain in such a way that the end grain can still expand/contract without being constrained. Simple as that.

John

[Shawn Pixley]

Travis, very ambitious for a first project. It turned out well. You'll learn from the wood movement experience and apply it to subsequent work. Good job!

[Travis Bochenek]

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I thought I&#39;d chime in here and provide an update. This was my first big project and haha, it didn&#39;t get the response I was hoping for! But it was a learning experience and ai appreciated all of the support! It&#39;s now been almost two years and to date there has been no major issues with wood movement. I say major because after a few months the topcoat (Arm-r-Seal) felt like there were some ridges in it in various places where boards met. My guess is that perhaps there was a small amount of movement, enough at least to cause this. What do you think?&nbsp; &nbsp;I&#39;ve since sanded down those areas and matched the dye where I was a bit aggressive with it. I&#39;ve honestly been insanely busy with work and it&#39;s sat like that for a while so I&#39;ll be applying a new topcoat in the near term. Winter is for woodworking right? Do you think that movement could have been the cause of this? The raised lines of the finish were barely noticeable but I&#39;m a tad anal. Here are a few pics of the project I&#39;ve moved over from photobucket .</p>
<p>
https://i.imgur.com/Q5oX4VH.jpg</p>
<p>
https://i.imgur.com/fzutbzH.jpg</p>
<p>
And the kerf I made as a pathetic attempt to mitigate movement</p>
<p>
https://i.imgur.com/Y5kYV0Q.jpg</p>

[Jim Becker]

Wood movement is real and edge banding on the ends like that is prone to failure because of the cross-grain relationship it has with the wood that makes up the majority of the slab. There are almost none of us who haven't done that at least once, so don't fret about it! Consider it "character" and move on. Nature of the beast!

[Andrew Hughes]

Yes it's wood movement what else could it be ?

[Travis Bochenek]

I was looking over these old posts and for posterity wanted to give an update. The bartop is still perfect and wood movement has not been an issue since. I think it's probably because of the consistent low humidity in the basement, and hopefully the kerfs and breaking of the glue helped at least a bit. When I talk about getting into woodworking I always tell this story about how i was so so proud of my work when posting, only to learn that I essentially made the cardinal sin of woodworking hahaha. Hope you're all doing well!

[Ron Selzer]

Thank you for the updates over the years
Ron

[John TenEyck]

Yes, thanks for the updates. If the RH stays pretty constant then wood movement will be minimal. But the ridges you felt where the boards are joined does indicate some wood movement is happening. If the grain of adjacent boards is not consistent, as it would be with quarter sawn glued to plain sawn, as an extreme example, then it doesn't take much change in RH for the boards to shrink/swell by a different amount so you feel the joint. Glues that have higher elasticity, like TB III in particular, are more prone to these ridges than TB Original which is much more rigid.

But it's still looking good, and that's all that counts.

John