Is it worth getting a Hammer over a Sawstop?

[Daniel McPherson]

I am just getting into woodworking and am setting up my shop. I don't like buying tools 2X and prefer to get the highest quality tools first. It was recommended I get a small slider because my shop is 25X25 and I already have a Festool track saw to break down large panels. I would prefer a hammer sliding TS but the sawstop is a lot cheaper. (I am looking at the industrial model fully outfitted for approx $4900) I am wondering if the extra money to step up to a Hammer or low end Felder is worth it.

[Nick Stokes]

If you prefer the Hammer, then you would always wish you had of gotten it...

[Peter Quinn]

It will make your cross cutting life easier, and a lot of wood working is cutting things to length. Saw stop also has a fairly effective cross cutting slider add on, that while not a format type sliding carriage may be worth a look if cost is a consideration.

[David Kumm]

Look at used too. The Laguna short stroke comes up periodically, as does Minimax, SCMI, and Felder. They aren't priced very high used so are a good bargain. My favorite short stroke sliders are old iron but I'm guessing you don't want to go there. A short slider is so versatile I have several and all get used. You won't regret going that route. Dave

[Jamie Buxton]

I'd get the Sawstop, and build a cut-off sled for it. The cut-off sled may cost you $20 of materials. A sled as big as the table on the Sawstop can handle almost anything a small slider can do. You'd get the safety of the Sawstop, and save some money too.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

IMHO, yes. A sawstop is a fancy unisaw/grizzly/jet /powermatic clone. A sliding saw is something completely different, which can also be used like the aforementioned traditional saw if you must. FYI, I had a full 8.5' slider in a 25x25 shop for several years, they will fit.

[Lou Ortiz]

Hate to say it depends, but...

i really prefer my old table saw for ripping, as I never had to worry about the difference between the height of the slider and the top of the table. There's also some operations, like cove cutting , that are just much easier to set up on the table saw.

The slider is slightly higher than the top to keep your pieces from dragging. Can create a slight issue when ripping a series of boards of different dimensions to the same width when they are in contact with surfaces at two different heights. But, the slider is fantastic for cross cuts, panels and for shaping operations if you get a combo.

If you want max versatility, go with the SS and spend the difference on a combo j/p. That's the felder piece that I consider the most worth spending extra. Don't know if you're just setting up shop or have already picked up the other fixed pieces.

[David Kumm]

Adjust the sliding table to .002 or less above the fixed and you can rip using either side. Dave

[Lou Ortiz]

Yeah, I admit that I haven't tweaked it since they came down and did the delivery and I can tell it's shifted some. Getting the slider dialed in was 80% of the effort to setup, so I haven't been anxious to revisit that.

[Daniel McPherson]

So it what i am hearing is that the slider format is so much better that by the time I spend that much I may as well spend 1K more and get a slider?

How do Hammer and Sawstop compare for quality?

[Rod Sheridan]

No comparison, the SS is simply a cabinet saw with a secondary safety feature.

The slider has a primary safety feature in the sliding table, which allows you use work holding clamps and work "hands free"

The slider also has a 3 function rip fence which greatly improves your safety when ripping solid material.

The slider also has scoring saw capability, which is a real treat for laminated panels.

I would never go back to a cabinet saw, I have the Hammer B3 Winner with 49" sliding table and outrigger.

Can't say enough good things about it, and how more capable and what increased capacity it has over a cabinet saw.

Regards, Rod.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

Daniel,
I were in your shoes a few months ago. I looked at the SS at a local Woodcraft, but didn't think it was any better than a current Unisaw. The SS brake technology doesn't impress me. I also test drove an older Powermatic and an older Unisaw, both of which were nicer to used than my Ridgid hybrid TS. Then I looked at the Hammer and Felder at the Sacramento showroom. The Felder 700 S was nicer; smoother sliding table, industrial-grade internals, but cost proportionally more than the largest Hammer K3 (with promotional discount). I wanted a slider for working with a lot of plywood. I can't tell you if I made the right choice because I am waiting on delivery, but just from watching videos of people working on a slider, reading user accounts on this forum, and thinking about the usage of a slider TS, I think I made a sound decision. It was more expensive than a SS/Unisaw/Powermatic, but if amortized over 10-25 years, the cost difference isn't that significant.

Accessories for the European tools can be expensive, so keep that in mind. Consumables aren't difficult to find/buy.

I read a lot about how a slider isn't very good at rip cut. I don't know how much of this is true because I don't have a slider yet, but there must be solutions and work-arounds, if that's true.

[Keith Hankins]

I'd go at it a little differently. Sit down and make up a list of pro's cons and then decide. You will find that in the end cost (depending on model is not that far off). I know when I looked and went to the hammer location and looked at it up close it was nice. The model I looked at was a lower end model but even that was impressive. If I was going to be doing a large amount of panels and cuts then no doubt that would have won.

I too use my festool TS55 and track and my MFT/3 to break panelsl down, so that weighed into my equation.

My second choice was the 5hp ICS. While it did not handle the larger panels, it did have the safety feature that I wanted as well and I have been at this a long long long time.

Quality wise Both are fantastic

Price wise they are both expensive but worth the money IMO.


In the end, the safety feature with the fact I make a lot of smaller cuts in materials, and felt they were better suited for the TS. However I'm sure someone will dispute that, but thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it.


If you want the safety then go sawstop, if you want the slider capability with panel cut, I'd go hammer or fielder.


In the end you wont be sorry either way.


I went with the sawstop, and I"m a 1+ year in and don't regret it at all!


have a good one! Post pics and a review no matter what you get. We all love our toys, even if they belong to someone else

Cheers!

[Jebediah Eckert]

Just getting into woodworking, how could you possibly go wrong with either? The more experienced people above have broken down "goods" and "betters" with both. Wouldn't you have to have some idea of what you want to make? Kitchen cabinets or presentation boxes and humidor type stuff? I would think one would be better then the other for different stuff.

When I started I had an old craftsman saw somebody was giving away like 20 years ago. Last year I upgraded to a cabinet saw and wow what a difference. That being said, if I started with the new saw I would not have appreciated the difference and what I liked and didn't like about saws. I certainly understand not wanting to buy stuff twice but I made plenty of decent stuff on the free saw. Like somebody mentioned above don't sleep on shop made sleds for a cabinet saw. Plenty of YouTube videos make them simple.

But if you can afford to drop $5k+ on a saw to just get into woodworking why not buy the best? If your dropping that kind of money for one of many tools maybe find a local woodworking shop that's been around a while and hire the owner as a consultant for a few days. Show him your space, tell him what you want to do project wise, and have him design the whole thing (or at least make his suggestions your are writing the check) from dust collection on down. Most woodworking shops that have been around a while have had many setups that evolved over the years, and if money was no issues would evolve even more.

Good luck and post pictures when your done!

[Joe Williams]

My brother has a hammer saw with the huge crosscut sled, which is a downgrade from the Felder he had. If you like being able to rip a 12 foot piece of plywood with your pinky finger the hammer is for you. Man I wish I had room for a saw like that.

[ed vitanovec]

I have a Grizzly G0623X ($3145 delivered) and really like it, Grizzly has a smaller sliding table saw G0700 ($2945 delivered) if the one I have is to big for your space. For me the price was right, quality was really good, 5HP motor with scoring blade and the sliding table is a nice feature to have. I feel that my sliding table saw has added some safety to my hobby.

[Glenn Kramer]

I have been a Sawstop user for the past 4 years, just an awesome saw in my opinion. recently I purchased a Hammer B3 Comfort. Currently it's awaiting the completion of my new shop. Yes I will be selling the SS soon. This was a huge decision for me. I little the sliding table on the B3, the tilting shaper spindle and the fact I'll no longer be standing in front of the blade.

IMO either machine is worthy and capable of exceptional work. After the my shop is done (laying maple floor today), under floor dust collection install and running compressed air line I am ready to make the change to the B3, however SS is an excellent machine. Am I making a mistake..only time will tell!

Best of luck with your decision and happy woodworking!

[Jim Becker]

Personally, I'm a fan...and an owner...of a slider. That would be the "right choice for me". But you have to make your decision based on your own needs and preferences. There is no "wrong answer" here!

[James Bilsky]

I have both a Hammer K3 Winner 48x48 and a Sawstop Professional, and I actually use both, crosscutting, ripping and sheet goods on the Hammer, mainly use the Sawstop for the numerous 3/4" slot fixtures I have already invested in, and cutting small parts.

jim

[Carroll Courtney]

I think there is unwritten rule someplace that pics are to be posted when talking about your slider setups guys.I have the little add-on for my unisaw and for the small's its fantastic.I would love to have the real deal,with a 25x25 shop I see it being on center stage and the shop setup being around it.Purchase the real deal and you will never look back and say "what if".New or used its a matter of budget.Please post some pics once you get it setup

[Bill Sutherland]

Since you have the Festool already, I don't see the advantage of the slider. I have the SS and the Festool and the combination is fine for me and I just couldn't see what the slider would add over the Festool/SS combination.

[Richard Wagner]

It sounds to me as though you want to get the slider but I must refer back to an earlier comment. You said you have a 25'x25' shop. Do you have room? I have only a slightly smaller shop and I do not have the physical space for that sort of equipment. Don't think just "foot print". You need space to maneuver around the equipment too.

[glenn bradley]

IMHO you are talking about two different tools other than that they are both "saws". As others have mentioned, decide what it is you are going to do and then it will be easier to choose the right tool for that function. For pure sawing, I would lean toward a slider, no question. The many things I do on my western tablesaw make a fixed table, dual miter slot platform very useful. Not everyone uses a boatload of jigs for all kinds of foolishness like I do so you can see that determining how you intend to use the machine can help you determine the format you would prefer.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

It sounds to me as though you want to get the slider but I must refer back to an earlier comment. You said you have a 25'x25' shop. Do you have room? I have only a slightly smaller shop and I do not have the physical space for that sort of equipment. Don't think just "foot print". You need space to maneuver around the equipment too.

Look at my member page, at the albums to see some pics of a full size Felder in action in a 25x25 shop. This was my old shop.

[David Kumm]

Sliders come in all different sizes. you need to figure out what will work best for you for the type of work you will do. My sliders range from 18", 34", 38", 80", and 120". none were over 5K ( except Knapp saw shaper ). The midsize saws take up no more room than a fixed.308617308618308619308620308621

[Wakahisa Shinta]

I have a Festool track saw, 1400mm, and 3000mm tracks. I also have a set of non-OEM parallel guides. While the track saw is excellent for the initial cuts to break down a 4x8 sheet of plywood, it is not the most efficient and convenient way of cutting panels to size repeatedly. Certainly, it is much easier and safer than using my hybrid TS. I just can't see how a tracksaw can compete with a slider optioned with an out-rigger and flip-stops. Set the fence, set the flip-stop, cut, and repeat until you run out of sheet to cut. :D

[Peter Aeschliman]

I have a Festool track saw, 1400mm, and 3000mm tracks. I also have a set of non-OEM parallel guides. While the track saw is excellent for the initial cuts to break down a 4x8 sheet of plywood, it is not the most efficient and convenient way of cutting panels to size repeatedly. Certainly, it is much easier and safer than using my hybrid TS. I just can't see how a tracksaw can compete with a slider optioned with an out-rigger and flip-stops. Set the fence, set the flip-stop, cut, and repeat until you run out of sheet to cut. :D

Agreed.

My take. The SS is an awesome cabinet saw, buy it's less functional than a slider.

As long as the slider has enough stroke to do rip cuts, it is also safer than the SS because you never get your hands close to the blade and kickback is highly unlikely. As soon as you start using the rip fence to hand feed, the Euro saws become less safe than the SS. In which case, it becomes a question of which you value more: safety or functionality.

My personal opinion is that a big slider is the best saw you can get. If you can't fit that big of a saw in your shop, it becomes a more complex decision.

[Jim Andrew]

I have the 79" stroke Hammer K3 Winner, don't see how it takes up more room than a sawstop, as you have to have room to maneuver a sheet. Also got the 48" wide. Reason I wanted the longer stroke, was I wanted to be able to straight line rip lumber, works great, straight from saw to glue table. Had I not felt comfortable with the price, would have went to look at the Grizzly sliders. There are no small sliders selling in my area. I did go look at and watch in operation a big 10' stroke ScMI saw. They said their main concern for getting a slider was safety. No more handling the big sheets crosscutting to lengeth using a big standard tablesaw. They had a 14" powermatic. If Hammer had a 8' version available, would have gone with it. The Felder 8' is significantly more expensive. I can just cut a sheet to length first, then rip to width, using the outrigger.

[Rich Riddle]

I have used both and own the Hammer K3 Winner. Are you aware that one of our members has a barely-used one for sale about 2K cheaper than new? Rod has great opinions and advise concerning these units. Can't really add anything he hasn't already offered.

[glenn bradley]

I have the 79" stroke Hammer K3 Winner, don't see how it takes up more room than a sawstop, as you have to have room to maneuver a sheet.

Jim makes an excellent point which adds to my "figure out what you are going to use it for" approach. I use almost no sheet goods. If you will use sheetgoods in your work, as I said before, I would go with the slider.

P.s. I'm a Saw Stop owner.

[Mike Archambeau]

Most of the responses seem to come from people cutting plywood. But I do not see a lot of solid wood furniture makers weighing in. What kind of wood are you cutting and what are you making with it?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Most of the responses seem to come from people cutting plywood. But I do not see a lot of solid wood furniture makers weighing in. What kind of wood are you cutting and what are you making with it?

I mostly use solid stock actually. It is a great thing to straight line rip a live edge board. Not so easy with a non slider. With the same set up, cut to length. Easy with a slider again in mere seconds, no sled needed. My saw will easily support 12' crosscut stock, keeping it perfectly stable. Haven't seen a sled that comes close to that. Its amazing how quickly you can process massive quantities of stock, drawer stock for example.

In plywood, I like to crosscut dados all the way across a sheet to then rip into shelves or cabinet parts.

There is much angst about ripping with a fence on a slider, most of which I think is caused by people having a hard time wrapping their heads around more than one possible approach. It can be done exactly like on a traditional saw, or a few more. Pretty convenient to have more options sometimes.

A festool saw is nice, but is no comparison to a sliding saw. It is a tool that gives you more options. No other options do.

Ok, I'll quit raving.

[Jim Andrew]

I use mostly solid lumber, have a bandmill and saw my own, lately have been just cutting live edge. Less waste that way. I can straight line rip and go straight to the glue table, as the cuts with the slider are near perfect.

[Gregory Stahl]

My slider has proven as valuable building furniture as sheet stock processing. I purchased a Felder k915 for my first slider--and did get a bit frustrated making the transition to it. I almost sold it and bought a Saw Stop--sure glad I stuck it out. As I learned to use the slider my cabinet saw became another bench in the shop. I sold the cabinet saw and have never missed it since. I really had no reason to use it--the slider was better at everything.

I build anything and everything. 4/4-8/4 domestics for the most part. Ripping 8/4 QSWO bogged my 7.5HP Felder down--I replaced it with a new 10HP Altendorf F45 last summer. I'll never go back to a cabinet saw!

Good luck and enjoy making your decision.

-Greg Stahl

[Rod Sheridan]

Most of the responses seem to come from people cutting plywood. But I do not see a lot of solid wood furniture makers weighing in. What kind of wood are you cutting and what are you making with it?

Mostly solid wood maching, Arts and Crafts type furniture.

I have a Hammer B3 Winner with the outrigger.

I would never go back to a cabinet saw after using a slider................Regards, Rod.

[Mike Wilkins]

I agree 100% with Rod's comments about the slider and safety. The Sawstop had been on the market for several years when I got ready to choose a slider. I understand the safety angle of the SS, but for me and my shop, safety is mainly what is between my ears and heart. I got rid of a Unisaw after my slider arrived, and have had no regrets. My hands are a long way from the blade when ripping and crosscutting, and the overhead blade guard instills a sense of safety each time the machine is in use. It's a different state of mind operating a slider, but soon becomes second nature.
Good luck and watch those fingers.

[mreza Salav]

Dave, you have an aircraft hangar to have all those tools, five very fine sliders, among a dozen or so shaperd?! :-)

[Prashun Patel]

Can anyone recommend an article or video on the benefits of a slider over a conventional cabinet saw. It's not intuitive to me. However, I've read enough testimonials from slider users to know there's really something there I'm missing.

[Chris Parks]

Have a look at how to rip with complete safety and no fence on a slider. The quality is so so and the audio is in German but you will get the message.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqzVglze9Nk

[Peter Aeschliman]

Have a look at how to rip with complete safety and no fence on a slider. The quality is so so and the audio is in German but you will get the message.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqzVglze9Nk

That's the video that convinced me. Cross cutting and straight line ripping were always obvious advantages of the slider in my mind. But the second (parallel) rip was the cut that had me convinced the SS was a safer machine... Until I saw this video.

The catch is that you need a slider with a long stroke in order to be able to use it for all of your rip cuts.

To me, that means at least an 8' stroke... You're talking about a very expensive machine when you get into that size range. So obviously that's the rub.

[Susumu Mori]

With a cabinet saw, glue-ready ripping for anything longer than, say, 6 feet, is difficult anyway?
For such occasions, I use my bandsaw followed by a hand plane or a jointer.
When choosing a big-invest machine, how to deal with rare occasions is always difficult.
I too can't decide the length of the slider for quite some time......
I know that most of my work can be done with a 48-inch slide, but what if we have a 5-feet counter top, dinner table, etc...

[Rod Sheridan]

With a cabinet saw, glue-ready ripping for anything longer than, say, 6 feet, is difficult anyway?
For such occasions, I use my bandsaw followed by a hand plane or a jointer.
When choosing a big-invest machine, how to deal with rare occasions is always difficult.
I too can't decide the length of the slider for quite some time......
I know that most of my work can be done with a 48-inch slide, but what if we have a 5-feet counter top, dinner table, etc...

Hi, do you expect to crosscut a 5 foot table top?

Most tops I've seen are smaller than that which is why I have the 49 inch slider.........Rod.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Hi, do you expect to crosscut a 5 foot table top?

Most tops I've seen are smaller than that which is why I have the 49 inch slider.........Rod.

Rod, I'd be really interested to hear how you do your rip cuts in your shop.

I know from another thread that you have the power feeder on your B3. Do you use the rip fence with the power feeder when you have a rip cut longer than 49"? How do you do your straight line rips?

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod, I'd be really interested to hear how you do your rip cuts in your shop.

I know from another thread that you have the power feeder on your B3. Do you use the rip fence with the power feeder when you have a rip cut longer than 49"? How do you do your straight line rips?

Hi Peter, when I have lots of pieces to rip I use the stock feeder because it gives a perfect edge. It doesn't wiggle, or change speeds while cutting. For that obviously I use the standard type rip fence.

For a few rips I use the fence feeding by hand.

For straight line ripping I use the slider obviously, normally I don't straight line longer than the slider however when I have to I use the plywood jig on the slider.

P.S. The Hammer jig strips aren't tight enough in the slider for my liking, I made some white oak strips.......Rod.

P.P.S. Using the jig in the slider is far better than using a jig on the cabinet saw as the slider provides all that input support and slide, then output support and slide before the jig has to move in relation to the slider.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Got it. Makes sense.

Man, the C3-31 is really calling my name. It sure ain't cheap though!

[Rod Sheridan]

Got it. Makes sense.

Man, the C3-31 is really calling my name. It sure ain't cheap though!

Good stuff never is............Rod.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Good stuff never is............Rod.

True indeed.

I have a SS PCS with an excalibur sliding table (not the same as a slider, but a big increase in functionality for my TS without it), a Laguna J/P machine (which is functional but not amazing), and a slot mortiser I built using a router, the slot mortiser table from my laguna machine and the left over cast iron extension wing from my TS. Soon to have a 3HP router in a cast iron extension wing of my TS. It's a good setup.

I could sell it all and get the C3 31, but with the options I would want would cost me at least $15k after proceeds from the sale. I just can't get over that difference even at the higher quality, space savings, and additional functionality. But each person has his/her own math, I guess! I'll just use this as rationale to finally buy a high end bandsaw. All of a sudden, $4k for a MM16 seems like a major bargain!

[Chris Parks]

The big thing that is never obvious and hard to explain is the way you approach the work with a slider. It allows a totally different approach and I find for instance that I am in the middle of the workshop deciding whether to use a SCMS or the slider to do a cut and generally use the slider unless angles are involved.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

If I had a the space I'd have a saw/shaper combo and a jointer/planer combo. That slider serves both the saw and the shaper. A Byrd head would serve both the jointer and the planer.
But since my garage is 20x20 I settled with a 5 In One Combo. I could never go back to a cabinet saw.

[Lou Ortiz]

I very rarely use plywood, mostly solid stock for furniture. There's no doubt that a slider beats a crosscut sled for cutting any large panel or top to finished size, and then there's crosscutting 12 footers, etc. as noted.

[Joe Jensen]

I upgraded from a Sawstop ICS 5HP to a Felder 700 series saw/shaper. Huge upgrade. I can't imagine not having a slider now. Having said that I didn't shop the Hammer series so I don't know about them. Also when I was buying everyone said to make sure to get a 9 ft slider and I'm very happy I did. It does take a ton of room in the shop.

[Chris Parks]

I would not limit my shopping to a Hammer/Felder if I was shopping for a slider as the other saws in this category are just the same in features and quality from what I have seen. I spent many weeks trying to decide between a Hammer and Minimax when I was shopping for a combination machine.

[Frederick Skelly]

Man, Im in the bush league. You folks have more invested in your TS than I have in my whole shop. :)

[Chris Parks]

Frederick, I can assure that I too have only had a hammer and a hand saw to work with. My slider is the fourth saw I have had and the culmination of forty years of getting there so to speak. I tend to add things as part of a job and cost it in as needed. I have just been given an order for 32 table tops for a restaurant so I went and bought an outrigger for it yesterday to make the job easier and quicker and the job pays for a new toy.

[Jim Andrew]

If price is the obstacle to your getting a slider, maybe you should check out the sliders Grizzly is selling. The catalog says they are made in Taiwan, so probably fair quality. Not Euro, but probably acceptable. I have 7 Grizzly machines, and all of them are serviceable. I also have 2 Euro machines, and they are excellent.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Have a look at how to rip with complete safety and no fence on a slider. The quality is so so and the audio is in German but you will get the message.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqzVglze9Nk

Good lord is that helpful, talk about a picture is worth a thousand words..

[Frederick Skelly]

Frederick, I can assure that I too have only had a hammer and a hand saw to work with. My slider is the fourth saw I have had and the culmination of forty years of getting there so to speak. I tend to add things as part of a job and cost it in as needed. I have just been given an order for 32 table tops for a restaurant so I went and bought an outrigger for it yesterday to make the job easier and quicker and the job pays for a new toy.

Thanks Chris. I sure understand that approach. And as a pro, you'll get quite a lot of use out of thar TS. Should be worth every penny for you!
Best regards,
Fred

[Jim Becker]

Similar to Chris, I did the benchtop to Contractor's style to cabinet saw to slider shuffle. That occurred over just a few years and I'm certainly not a pro. I was thankfully blessed with the financial ability to get where I am equipment wise when I did, 'cause right now and likely into retirement, that wouldn't have happened! I luvz my sliderz!

[Darcy Forman]

I have a Felder KF500. I upgraded to this from a contractor style ridgid. Mine has the four foot slider and my shop is 24 x 15. Wish I had more room but I don't, and the set up works well. My slider is the same height as the saw table which is nice for ripping. When I rip cut I use the rip fence like any standard cabinet saw. I can't understand why folks feel this is more difficult on a slider. Maybe it is because my saws cabinet is closer in size to a conventional cabinet saw than larger sliders. At any rate I find ripping to be a very simple safe operation. The sliding table and carriage provides extra support for the ripped material on the left side of the blade. However, I work almost 90 percent with solid wood.
I went with this saw over a saw stop for a couple reasons. One I knew I wanted a shaper some day an this was a good way to get a saw and shaper in one machine to save space. I have not used the shaper yet, but I have tooling on order. Two I really wanted the cut capacity the 12 blade gives over a 10. Finally, I knew I wanted the capacity and accuracy that the slider provides. On my other saw I always compromised with the miter gauge and cross cut sled.
For me it come down to machine quality and efficient use of space. I work mostly with solid wood, but the odd time I do use plywood it is nice as well. The final thing I like about my saw is how it holds it settings. I work long hours, and when I step into my shop for some time to relax, I can just start cutting and building. Messing around setting and tweeting drives me nuts. I want just step into the shop and make sawdust. This machine does this in spades.