Side to Side sharpening

[David Ragan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi1uOISQP50&feature=related

See the link above? I was out surfing this am, and wound up there. It is totally Japenese. Not a bit of English.

But, the set up is so perfect, just takes up a little more room than I like.

As you all know, I am in process of looking @ how I do many things again, and esp (ever popular) sharpening.

(Side to side, as long as you keep moving over entire surface of the stone seems like it *may* be easier to do well on/consistently free-hand.)

So....any of you all out there ever made a jig/set up like this fellow in the YouTube video?

If so, has anyone found a way to make it smaller?

[Jim Matthews]

Don't do it.

Sharpen the tool in the direction it will be used.

[David Ragan]

Don't do it.

Sharpen the tool in the direction it will be used.

Bummer....

[Joe Tilson]

Jim,
Would you explain why one should not sharpen side to side, so some of us who are not in the know will understand your answer.
Thank you,
Joe

[Zach Dillinger]

I sharpen side to side quite often simply because I tend to use narrow (read inexpensive) oil stones. I'm sure there is some theoretical truth to the concern of the direction of microscopic scratches but in real practice it doesn't make an iota of difference if you sharpen often like you should.

[william sympson]

I freehand sharpen perpendicular to the cutting edge and have been for quite some time without seeing any problems. In fact I usually do small circles while rotating/moving across the stone surface. It seems a far more natural motion than imitating a honing guide...unless you're using the convex bevel approach.

R/
William

[Jeff Heath]

A sharp edge is the intersection of two equally polished surfaces.....metal, in this case. Nothing more, and nothing less. The engineers and scientists can argue about it for 3 million posts, even calling each other dirty names in the process. None of that silliness will change the fact that it does not matter how you get there, or what abrasive media you choose to use.....

As long as you get there.

Jump up and down and beat the drums while you're sharpening, if you think it'll do any good. Just make sure the back of your chisel or plane iron is flat, and the intersecting bevel is polished to an equal flatness, in it's plane.

Nothing else matters, including forward and back, or side to side. Don't over think it, and 10 grand spent on special stones from some special mountain won't make a bit of difference when the tool meets the wood. I sharpen on a piece of scrap granite and my tools are silly sharp.

[Steve Voigt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi1uOISQP50&feature=related

See the link above? I was out surfing this am, and wound up there. It is totally Japenese. Not a bit of English.

But, the set up is so perfect, just takes up a little more room than I like.

As you all know, I am in process of looking @ how I do many things again, and esp (ever popular) sharpening.

(Side to side, as long as you keep moving over entire surface of the stone seems like it *may* be easier to do well on/consistently free-hand.)

So....any of you all out there ever made a jig/set up like this fellow in the YouTube video?

If so, has anyone found a way to make it smaller?

It seems like the big disadvantage of that jig is that it wears the stone only in one place. Perhaps if he moved the stone around while sharpening…a little like scratching your head and rubbing your tummy…but if you want to use a jig, a $10 eclipse-style jig is faster to set up and won't wear your stone in one spot.

BTW, I side-sharpen freehand. Like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0ClNp_Eknw

[ian maybury]

I don't know, but suspect that cross sharpening is probably fine - though maybe better IF the edge is finely polished.

He moves the stones up and down quite a bit Steve, maybe that gets over the wear issue? Trend do a diamond based cross sharpening system too which would too, but the grits are very coarse so it's probably not for high end sharpening: https://www.howdens.com/hardware-collection/tools-accessories/sharpening/

What's very interesting about the use of a radius arm that way in the video is that it'll not only very accurately control the bevel, it'll also camber or curve the edge. There actually looks to be one heck of a camber on the blade he sharpened, although if the plane it's for runs a very low bed angle maybe it's in practice much less...

[David Ragan]

Yeah, i figured out that the camber is necessarily part of that system. Anything like it that would facilitate a straight bevel would be overly complex
i feel for the gentleman on the above youtube video. Tremor can be problematic
the appeal of cross sharpening is that it seems like it mau be easier to maintain the bevel angle whilst moving tje blade to and fro

[Jim Matthews]

Perhaps I should clarify my remark.

I was taught that to properly sharpen an edge tool,
you need to raise a burr. Sharpening sideways pushes
steel sideways, not to the edge where you want it.

Maybe you'll have better success, but every attempt
I made sharpening sideways resulted in torn sandpaper,
gouged stones and fragile edges that didn't last.

I sharpen in the direction I intend the blade to cut.

[Derek Cohen]

I am not sure if these are still available, but Harrelson Stanley designed and produced the Sharp Skate, a guide that runs side-to-side. I reviewed the original version 8 years ago ...


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/Side%20Sharpening%20and%20The%20Sharp%20Skate_html _2d2d4fbd.jpg

There is now a Mk II version, essentially the same.


Review: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/Side%20Sharpening%20and%20The%20Sharp%20Skate.html

This is excellent for those starting out side sharpening, and in little time you will be confident of going without it. It's a great training guide as well as a great jig.

I seem to recall some research (Japanese?) that demonstrated that side sharpening produced stronger edges than front-and-back. This is because the scratches do not run into the bevel edge where they create micro chips.

It is all meaningless however. By the time one has honed away scratches - created a good polish - the scratch pattern should be too small to matter.

I do side sharpening because it enables better control and use of the stone. Plus it enables narrow stones to be used.


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/Side%20Sharpening%20and%20The%20Sharp%20Skate_html _57740224.jpg


Regards from Perth

Derek

[Zach Dillinger]

Right on Derek.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Perhaps I should clarify my remark.

I was taught that to properly sharpen an edge tool,
you need to raise a burr. Sharpening sideways pushes
steel sideways, not to the edge where you want it.

Maybe you'll have better success, but every attempt
I made sharpening sideways resulted in torn sandpaper,
gouged stones and fragile edges that didn't last.

I sharpen in the direction I intend the blade to cut.

The burr is just a sign that you have reached the point where the two planes meet, thus forming a sharp edge. Except for scraper sharpening, the burr is removed and not actually what makes the edge sharp. It is just the indicator that you have reached the point where the planes meet, and an you can either stop or move to the next grit.

I say whichever way you prefer, use that method. Either way gets the tool sharp. You could argue the merit of the microscopic scratch pattern being in one direction or the other, but that would be splitting hairs- literally!

[Bill White]

Certainly creates repeatability.
Bill

[Tom Vanzant]

Ron Brese uses a side-wise sharpening stroke similar to what Derek shows. If you've ever used one of Ron's planes, you know that method works.

[David Ragan]

I am not sure if these are still available, but Harrelson Stanley designed and produced the Sharp Skate, a guide that runs side-to-side. I reviewed the original version 8 years ago ...


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/Side%20Sharpening%20and%20The%20Sharp%20Skate_html _2d2d4fbd.jpg

There is now a Mk II version, essentially the same.


Review: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/Side%20Sharpening%20and%20The%20Sharp%20Skate.html

This is excellent for those starting out side sharpening, and in little time you will be confident of going without it. It's a great training guide as well as a great jig.

I seem to recall some research (Japanese?) that demonstrated that side sharpening produced stronger edges than front-and-back. This is because the scratches do not run into the bevel edge where they create micro chips.

It is all meaningless however. By the time one has honed away scratches - created a good polish - the scratch pattern should be too small to matter.

I do side sharpening because it enables better control and use of the stone. Plus it enables narrow stones to be used.


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/Side%20Sharpening%20and%20The%20Sharp%20Skate_html _57740224.jpg


Regards from Perth

Derek

After reading many reviews, I'm going to try the free hand sharpening method in a few minutes (It's early Sat am! My favorite shop time!)

However, the main thing about the reviews negative is that the wheels can grind a groove into your stone, and the grit accumulates in the 9 wheels. I suppose swishing it around in water would make short work of the grit issue, and going more diagonally will address the wear issue.

Any thoughts anyone?

[David Ragan]

Ron Brese uses a side-wise sharpening stroke similar to what Derek shows. If you've ever used one of Ron's planes, you know that method works.

Wow. I went to the website, and that kinda tool is something I can only look at. We used to call that window shopping.

I didn't see anything of his website about side sharpening. What's the deal?

[Paul Sidener]

It looks like a larger version of a Lansky.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n97hZbHtY2I

[Derek Cohen]

However, the main thing about the reviews negative is that the wheels can grind a groove into your stone, and the grit accumulates in the 9 wheels. I suppose swishing it around in water would make short work of the grit issue, and going more diagonally will address the wear issue.

Never noticed a problem. However I used hard waterstones (Shaptons).

Regards from Perth

Derek