Upgrade Dewalt 735 or go for PM 15HH Planer?

[Matt Stack]

I am debating on upgrading my dewalt 735x to a Byrd cutter head or investing in the PM 15HH.

I want to start using figured wood, so the Byrd head is what I'm after. My Dewalt 735x works great but I cannot get the snipe to completely disappear. The snipe is very minor and can usually be corrected with a very light sanding. I haven't had to waste any stock due to snipe.

My question to the current owners of the 15hh is; can snipe be completely eliminated using this machine? What can I expect from the 15HH?

I would rather spend the extra money to get a machine that can mill figured wood and eliminate snipe than sink more money into the 735x and deal with the minor snipe.

Also, how well does the 15hh perform when milling curly and quilted boards?

Thanks for your help.

[Rich Riddle]

I have a machine far more expensive than a PM15HH and minor snipe occurs. It's simply part of the process. One can try to reduce it to an acceptable level, but .... You'll spend far more on a Powermatic to replace the DeWalt than it will cost you in wood to simply keep a residual amount of snipe. The DeWalt is portable, the Powermatic not. Is there a chance you will ever need to take your planer to a job site?

[Wade Lippman]

Consider a drum sander for the last bit. No snipe and no tear out on grain. It might not be any more expensive than your planer upgrade, and certainly more useful.

People say they have gotten rid of snipe, but I think it is just inherent in planer design.

[Howard Skillington]

I recently added the Byrd Shelix cutterhead to my Dewalt 735 and am extremely pleased with it. A buddy found out I got it so he brought over a big plank of highly figured hard maple and it had no problem with it. In fact we ran the board through the machine both with and against the grain and it didn't make any discernable difference. That said, Matt, it sounds like you can't abide any snipe at all. In my experience this machine does occasionally snipe the last inch of two of a board to a minor extent. If that would keep you from being satisfied with the Dewalt, then you might be happier with the 15HH

[Clint Baxter]

I upgraded my Dewalt with the Byrd head and had good results planing except for the fact the Dewalt was severely under powered. When planing a wide piece of hard maple I could only take the lightest of cuts or the motor overload would trip. It definitely takes more power to run the Byrd head than it does for the straight knives.

Clint

[Jeff Bartley]

Matt, If you won't need to transport the planer to a job site and can afford the upgrade I'd go for the 15HH. Better yet I'd try and find a used 15" planer. Of course, if you're very patient you could upgrade the dewalt and take very very light cuts when running wider stock but I can't see the economy in that path. What about keeping sharp knives in the 735 and picking up a small sander? Again, you'll need to be patient, those small sanders work slowly! I'm not knocking anyone who has upgraded a 735 to a Byrd head but I can't see putting that much money into an underpowered planer. But it is a great little planer in it's own right, I've been using one for a couple years, upgraded from an old 733. I plan to a 15"HH and will look for a used one.

[Brian D Smith]

any reason you are limiting yourself to the 15HH?

if it were me and I was after a 15" planer I would do this...

sell the 735x for around $400, they come and go quickly at that price around me on craigslist.

take the $400 and buy a used 15" planer off of craigslist. I just picked up a grizzly 15" 2 speed 2hp with both in feed and out feed roller tables for $500 ($500-$600 is the common going rate for these types of machine around here). the thing works great. so you are net $100 in the hole at this point. if you want a Byrd helical head now you can pick one up new for $795, I just did a quick search on google, could probably get a better price if you looked around.

the 15HH is $3,050 on amazon right now on sale.

break down...

Dewalt 735x upgraded head $410-$475
Powermatic 15HH $3,050
Used 15" planer with Helical Head $1,000 (this takes into account selling the 735x @ $400)

seems to me I know what I would do in this situation if you wanted more capacity.

I would do options 3 and save over $2k! especially since if you want to upgrade to a 15" later that $400 dollar investment for the helical head for the dewalt 735x won't net you anywhere near that...maybe half at best. and you will most likely have to take it out of the machine and sell it separately to make the sale of both quicker.

or better yet option 4, head on over to the classifieds section of this site and if you are anywhere new NJ buy the grizzly 15" with spiral head for sale right now for $1325!

just my .2 cents for what it's worth.

[Mike Goetzke]

I had a 735 a few years back and added a Byrd head. I did have an issue in the change over that I had to replace the helical gear on the head. It cut fine but I decided to build cabinets for our kitchen and found a 15" planer could handle many more panels with it's larger capacity. I ended up with a Grizzly with a spiral insert head. I have virtually no snipe but my 735 didn't have much either. The biggest thing I experienced was the reduced noise and better dust collection. I also found out that a floor standing 15" planer doesn't take much more space than a benchtop (in my space challenged shop).

Mike

[Grant Wilkinson]

One thing to include in your decision making is that adding the Byrd head to the 735 does not eliminate the snipe. That snipe is caused by the roller set up on the 735, and that does not change with the head change. My buddy added the Byrd to his 735 and I kept the straight knives. There is no discernible difference in the snipe caused by the 2 machines. He did burn his motor out, though, and Dewalt walked away from the warranty when the repair guy saw that he has installed the Byrd. Clint is right. The Dewalt is under powered when the Byrd is added.

[Andrew Hughes]

I have both machines my 735 doesn't snipe if the wood is flat.I also went with carbide tipped knives.
The 735 really has its place for small stuff and very light cuts.
The 15hh snipes I use it for longer boards and yes it does well on reversing grain,it's very quite,but will not take a light cut without leaving roller marks.It also came with the wixey digital height gage,But it ate battery's after the first year so I took it off.So I say two planers are better than one..Aj

[Marty Tippin]

You'll never get your money back out of the DW 735 with a helical head.

With the typical 15" 4-post planer, you have a lot of leeway to make adjustments that can reduce snipe significantly. On the DW 735, the only thing you can do is adjust the pitch of the infeed and outfeed tables.

There's probably no real compelling reason to buy the PM 15" planer when a Grizzly 15" is a whole lot cheaper and performs about the same. They're made in the same factory and are pretty much indistinguishable from each other - a planer isn't a complicated piece of machinery, and there's not much you can do to screw them up during the manufacturing process. The Grizzly has a spiral head with custom-sized cutters whereas the PM has the Shelix helical head, but that's pretty much the only difference. And I doubt you'll be able to tell the difference in wood run through both machines.

You can get a Grizzly G0453PX delivered to your door for $1950 -- and there's currently a 10% coupon floating around that will save you another $175. Best you'll do on a PM 15HH with the current 15% discount is around $2600 delivered

[Matt Stack]

Thanks for all the input. I appreciate all your opinions and you've given me a lot to consider.

I do not take the planer out of the shop, so portability is of no concern. The Grizzly is also a fine option and I am happy with the drill press I own. I recently purchased a couple PM pieces and I am very pleased with their products.

I don't think I will sink anymore money into the 735 since I won't see a decent return on it in the used market.

I was reading through the 15hh manual and noticed they recommend a dedicated 40A circuit. Is that correct? How do you guys power your 15hh? I have 2 other machines in my shop with 3hp motors and they are on 20A circuits.

Hey Andrew, can you elaborate on the roller marks? What can I expect and how do you deal with it?

[Andrew Hughes]

Since I opened my big mouth I will clarify,The planer sometimes leave some line from the infeed roller on soft wood let's say cedar or fir, they bug me ESP if it's a face I planned on Useing.Its usually my fault sending a board thru twice or try to get my thickness specific.
since your going to sell you 735 you probably could spend some time adjusting the pressure on that roller to help.I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker.Heres a pic of the marks in hickory.Aj

[Marty Tippin]

You can adjust the outfeed roller pressure to mostly eliminate the roller marks except when taking very thin ( like 0.010" or less) cuts. This is another advantage of this style of planer. Similar adjustments to table roller height, chipbreaker height, infeed and outfeed roller height and pressure all go into reducing snipe and roller marks.

BTW - I highly recommend adding the Wixey digital readout to any planer - there's one that fits the DW 735 and another that fits most of the 4-post planers; installation is (generally) pretty easy and there are lots of photos on SMC and elsewhere showing completed installations. The value of being able to dial up an exact, repeatable thickness can't be overstated.

[Jim Andrew]

If you are in an area like mine, only time used machines come up for sale is when I have a new one on order. I have a Grizzly G0453px, and like it very much. For the price of the powermatic, you could have a new Grizzly planer AND a drum sander.

[Victor Robinson]

If you are in an area like mine, only time used machines come up for sale is when I have a new one on order. I have a Grizzly G0453px, and like it very much. For the price of the powermatic, you could have a new Grizzly planer AND a drum sander.

Couldn't agree more

[mike mcilroy]

Jim Andrew (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?3552-Jim-Andrew)
If you are in an area like mine, only time used machines come up for sale is when I have a new one on order. I have a Grizzly G0453px, and like it very much. For the price of the powermatic, you could have a new Grizzly planer AND a drum sander.




I live in an area like yours.

[Howard Skillington]

I'm surprised at your report, Clint. One of the advantages advertised for helical cutters is that they take less power than straight knives, and that seems to be the case with my 735.

[Edward Oleen]

If you are in an area like mine, only time used machines come up for sale is when I have a new one on order. I have a Grizzly G0453px, and like it very much. For the price of the powermatic, you could have a new Grizzly planer AND a drum sander.

Yes, and for the price of a Powermatic, you'd have a Powermatic. Ever notice how '66 saws are so highly regarded?

[Matt Stack]

Thanks Andrew. That was very helpful.

How did you power your machine? Do you have a 40A circuit as PM recommends?

[Andrew Hughes]

220v 20A breaker,hasn't tripped it yet.Its only a 3hp motor,I bought mine the first year they started comings out so maybe they changed the specs, or the motor who knows?Good luck Aj

[Ed Edwards]

ED, THE QUESTION IS HOW MANY '66 SAWS WERE MADE OVERSEAS??

Ed

[Martin Wasner]

ED, THE QUESTION IS HOW MANY '66 SAWS WERE MADE OVERSEAS??

Ed

03 or 04 is when powermatic became grizzly, (cpo?). I think some of the other stuff was before that even.

[Clint Baxter]

I'm surprised at your report, Clint. One of the advantages advertised for helical cutters is that they take less power than straight knives, and that seems to be the case with my 735.

I upgraded my 735 to the Byrd head expecting the noise reduction, improved surface and thinking that it would take less power. After using the Byrd head, I felt that I had to take thinner cuts or deal with the motor reset tripping. I eventually sold my 735 and replaced it with the Hammer A3-31 with a spiral head. Quiter, more powerful and the surface is every bit as good as the one from the upgraded 735.

One school of thought is that with straight knives there is a cut, then a pause until the next knive comes then another cut, etc. with the Byrd head, however, there is a cutter engaged in the cutting action supposedly all the time. This would be much more pronounced on a wider board, and that is where I had the greatest problem with mine. It may be that the 735 was just underpowered for the maple I was planing, but I seemed to have more power from it prior to installing the Byrd.

Glad ad to hear that you don't seem to be having my issues.

Clint

[Martin Wasner]

I was told it's because there's nowhere for chips to go. A big Northfield planer can hog a ¼" with straight or helical knives. With an insert head I'm told they won't do an eighth inch pass

[Matt Stack]

Thanks to all for your input, it was very helpful. I sold the 735 this morning and ordered the PM 15hh this afternoon.

[Steve Baumgartner]

The OP has made up his mind, so this is after the fact, but if you look on Byrd's website you will find a disclaimer that I don't recall seeing in years past. It observes that to fit through the bearing hole during installation, the cutting diameter of the Byrd head is about 1/8 smaller than the stock DeWalt head with blades (on the DeWalt, the blades are installed after the head is in place). On my DW735 this has had two consequences: First, the maximum depth of cut is reduced. Second, the pressure rollers hit the wood well before the cutters, so you have to lower the head somewhat past the point where the board feeds. At that point there is more strain on the whole assembly than DeWalt anticipated and it is harder to completely eliminate snipe.

[Nick Stokes]

Thanks to all for your input, it was very helpful. I sold the 735 this morning and ordered the PM 15hh this afternoon.

Well congrats. Sounds like this is what you were wanting all along. Always best to go with your gut.

[Edward Oleen]

sorry to take so long - none, as far as I know... Unless you call McMinnville (sp?) "overseas".

[Bryan Wiesendahl]

I'm curious about those with the Byrd head... Did you find any gains in the dust collection abilities? I was planing a 12" wide piece of hard maple last night and the long, stringy chips wanted to clog the dust hood unless I took under a 1/32" pass. Plows right through walnut, though.

I thought that perhaps since the chips created by a small carbide square would be smaller they would get sucked up and ejected more efficiently.