Hole Too Large for Screw

[Rich Riddle]

During the course of taking down doors, sanding, painting, and reinstalling them, a couple of the holes are too large for the screws. These are screws that hold a thumb lock mechanism for the bathroom door. It's only on the inside and the screws are very short so they won't interfere with the throw of the lock. Any ideas on how to fill the hole partially or completely so that it can then prove useful? I have never seen screws this short...but it's needed in this situation.

[John Schweikert]

Durham's rock hard wood putty

[Rich Riddle]

Durham's rock hard wood putty
I have used that in the past and didn't realize you could screw into it. That stuff is sure difficult to sand.

[Bernie May]

I am a believer in wooden match stick ends. Cram 1 into hole and break off flush. I don't know how many times I have done it over the past 40 years.
-bernie

[William A Johnston]

I agree with Bernie I've always used tooth picks with a little wood glue. Its works great

[George Bokros]

Golf Tee's work also

[Vince Shriver]

During the course of taking down doors, sanding, painting, and reinstalling them, a couple of the holes are too large for the screws. These are screws that hold a thumb lock mechanism for the bathroom door. It's only on the inside and the screws are very short so they won't interfere with the throw of the lock. Any ideas on how to fill the hole partially or completely so that it can then prove useful? I have never seen screws this short...but it's needed in this situation.

I've used wooden matches and multiple tooth picks (broken off to the depth of the hole). Works very well. Also, tho I've never tried it, I think you could use a product from JB Weld called Kwik Wood (an epoxy puddy) that can be pared, planed, sanded and drilled.

[Doug Garson]

+1 on the toothpicks or just slivers of wood from any scraps you have laying around (studs, cedar shim, popsicle sticks, coffee stir sticks etc.). Never added any glue. Pretty common problem no need to complicate the solution.
Problem with using glues or epoxy ( like JB Weld) is if you make the plug harder than the surrounding wood, the plug can deflect the screw into the surrounding wood instead of going straight in.

[Mike McCann]

golf tees work great

[Wade Lippman]

This stuff is great:
Woodmate 2498 Mr. Grip Screw Hole Repair Kit
In googling for this I found a website that said matchsticks were only temporary, but steel wool worked great. Never tried it.

[Peter Quinn]

I keep 3/16" dowel rod in the tool box for this, drill a 3/16" hole so it blows out any of the old screw hole, I run in the leading edge on a pencil sharpener so they start easy, then a dab of glue, knock them in, flush them up and reinstall the hardware using a vix bit as a new installation. For really tiny screws a smaller gauge of dowel might be more appropriate?

[Kent A Bathurst]

I agree with Bernie I've always used tooth picks with a little wood glue. Its works great

On my shelf where the glue bottles live are three boxes of toothpicks: Round, Square, and Flat. With that combo, I can cram any hole full of toothpicks. Let the glue dry, and Mr Chisel pares them off cleanly.

[Rich Riddle]

This hole is a bit precarious. Directly behind the hole is where the bolt sits. So I cannot push whatever will fill the hole all the way down or it would interfere with the locking bolt. It's likely the locking bolt can be removed and then the finger will be used to feel for the depth of the material inserted to close the hole. Lots of effort for such a small task.

[Don Sundberg]

I keep 3/16" dowel rod in the tool box for this, drill a 3/16" hole so it blows out any of the old screw hole, I run in the leading edge on a pencil sharpener so they start easy, then a dab of glue, knock them in, flush them up and reinstall the hardware using a vix bit as a new installation. For really tiny screws a smaller gauge of dowel might be more appropriate?
+1
I've done the matchstick but did this on my last door finish job and it worked great.

[Clint Baxter]

Another item that I like to use is bamboo skewers. They also work well

[Jim Evatt]

I just repaired all the holes in door hinges by drilling and gluing in dowels and redrilling for screws. This was a cheap door from Lowe's, and I had toothpicked a couple of holes earlier, but they did not last long. I will have no more problems with this door now. I should have done it right to begin with. Actually, to begin with, I should have bought a better quality door!

[Peter Quinn]

I just repaired all the holes in door hinges by drilling and gluing in dowels and redrilling for screws. This was a cheap door from Lowe's, and I had toothpicked a couple of holes earlier, but they did not last long. I will have no more problems with this door now. I should have done it right to begin with. Actually, to begin with, I should have bought a better quality door!

The issue with pluging the old hole is the surrounding wood may be contaminated with grease, oil from the screws, wax, or soap from screw installation. I find drilling back to fresh wood is always best, glue the dowel plugs in, then when you run another screw in the plug expands a bit to act as a clamp. So I don't wait too long between plugs and reinstalling hardware. Screws rarely fail, but given enough time and force the surrounding wood often does. Or in the case of big box doors....the surrounding pulp.

[Jerome Stanek]

Even Tom Silva used tooth picks to do this on ask this old house and he uses Festool so you may have to spend some money

[Pat Houle]

This works great in some situations:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=32280&cat=1,180,42240,53317

[glenn bradley]

I have used that in the past and didn't realize you could screw into it. That stuff is sure difficult to sand.

I have the Lee Valley item shown above and it is great if you have enough thickness to use it on. From your shallow requirement my first choice would be to drill a 1/4" flat bottomed hole with a Forstner, glue in a short piece of 1/4" oak dowel, drill and screw. If the holes are not too over-large, whittle a plug of hardwood scrap, use a toothpick, a kabob skewer, etc. and glue in place. Saw off flush, drill and screw.

Durham's is a great solution for many things. It is a poor wood filler due to the reason you state; it is harder than the surrounding material and therefor is difficult to sand flush. It doe not shrink appreciably though so you can putty-knife it flush while soft, then drill and screw into it.

[Chris Padilla]

You need a whole new door, Rich, sorry. ;)

I would go the epoxy route. Tape the back of the hole if possible so the epoxy doesn't run out and smear it in. Be patient. It might take a couple of fills. If you can remove the door and lay it such that gravity works for you, all the better.

Also, pics would help us to better help you.

[John Coloccia]

IMHO, the absolute best fix for something like this is to cram toothpicks in there with wood glue, and then screw everything together WET. The screw will clamp and compress the toothpicks/glue, and when it dries you'll end up with super strong threads formed around the screw. I've tried every other way of doing it. Screwing into end grains stinks. Once the screw shears the fibers, I often end up with a neat little plug that will eventually just pull out. The toothpick/glue thing is just super strong, if you screw it all together when it's still wet.

[Phil Barrett]

The issue with pluging the old hole is the surrounding wood may be contaminated with grease, oil from the screws, wax, or soap from screw installation. I find drilling back to fresh wood is always best, glue the dowel plugs in, then when you run another screw in the plug expands a bit to act as a clamp. So I don't wait too long between plugs and reinstalling hardware. Screws rarely fail, but given enough time and force the surrounding wood often does. Or in the case of big box doors....the surrounding pulp.

I agree with this. Not only that but the wood is often shredded and cracked. I drill a larger hole and glue a hardwood dowel plug. More surface area for glue adhesion. Redrill new pilot. Fix will last longer than the original holes.

An example. I have a set of sliding room dividers in the house I bought 3 years ago. 8 hinges - 6 screws per hinge. Some screws were loose so I tightened them up. They kept coming loose so I took it down and apart. Toothpicks came out of about half the holes. The screws are number 10 so they are pretty big. I drilled out the holes with a 3/8 bit, glued in dowels, redrilled the pilots and reinstalled. Totally solid.

[Lee Schierer]

I keep 3/16" dowel rod in the tool box for this, drill a 3/16" hole so it blows out any of the old screw hole, I run in the leading edge on a pencil sharpener so they start easy, then a dab of glue, knock them in, flush them up and reinstall the hardware using a vix bit as a new installation. For really tiny screws a smaller gauge of dowel might be more appropriate?

I do the same thing only I use a 1/8"dowel slightly tapered with a pencil sharpener and a dad of glue in the hole.

[Brian Henderson]

I have to say, I'd go with redrilling and gluing in a hardwood dowel. The glue is stronger than the wood, you'll have a permanent patch that you can drill just like new. I've had failures with the matchstick and toothpick method, but never just replacing the wood with new.

[lowell holmes]

I put a dowel in my pencil sharpener and then cut the sharpened end off. I glue it in the over sized hole, drill a pilot hole in it and set the screw in it.

[Peter Quinn]

IMHO, the absolute best fix for something like this is to cram toothpicks in there with wood glue, and then screw everything together WET. The screw will clamp and compress the toothpicks/glue, and when it dries you'll end up with super strong threads formed around the screw. I've tried every other way of doing it. Screwing into end grains stinks. Once the screw shears the fibers, I often end up with a neat little plug that will eventually just pull out. The toothpick/glue thing is just super strong, if you screw it all together when it's still wet.


So john, Do you have a source for toothpicks whose grain runs perpendicular to the length? Far as i can tell the tooth pic is a fast, cheap and dirty little dowel screwing into which is screwing into end grain, or like screwing into rope.. I've used bamboo skewers I found in a clients kitchen in a pinch to very good avail, they seem to shred like rope and rap the screw on its way in in a tenacious manor. Not sure what they make tooth pics from, but the dowels I use are maple, and they hold screws like....well...something that holds something really really tight. In fact I've preempted the install it...have it fail....wait for the call back routine on some installs involving soft wood by just gluing in the maple dowels from the beginning. You would have a hard time making me believe a pile of round little pics that are tapered along their length leaving lots of space between them for failed glue bonds is superior to a good dowel plug in a fresh hole. If you glued in a perpendicular grain plug, that would be an end grain to end grain glue up, so less glue strength than a long grain dowel and more likely to pull out.

[John Coloccia]

So john, Do you have a source for toothpicks whose grain runs perpendicular to the length?
Nope. It's unnecessary because the screw completely compresses the wood and the glue into mush, making the choice of grain direction irrelevant.



Far as i can tell the tooth pic is a fast, cheap and dirty little dowel screwing into which is screwing into end grain, or like screwing into rope.. I've used bamboo skewers I found in a clients kitchen in a pinch to very good avail, they seem to shred like rope and rap the screw on its way in in a tenacious manor. Not sure what they make tooth pics from, but the dowels I use are maple, and they hold screws like....well...something that holds something really really tight. In fact I've preempted the install it...have it fail....wait for the call back routine on some installs involving soft wood by just gluing in the maple dowels from the beginning. You would have a hard time making me believe a pile of round little pics that are tapered along their length leaving lots of space between them for failed glue bonds is superior to a good dowel plug in a fresh hole. If you glued in a perpendicular grain plug, that would be an end grain to end grain glue up, so less glue strength than a long grain dowel and more likely to pull out.

I've tried it all, Peter, as stripped screw holes is one of the most common guitar repairs you do, and you really don't want them coming back, or risk cosmetic damage. Someone once recommended to me the toothpicks with glue, I've used it ever since on everything, and my opinion is that it's usually the most permanent fix. Honestly, I'm really not out to make anyone believe anything. There's no reason to make theoretical arguments about what should or shouldn't be better. Toothpicks and glue are cheap, and so are holes. They can just try and see for themselves, but they must do it the way I said...screw it all together WET, or you won't get the right results.

[Charles Li]

Great thread! I've always thought about what I'd do if I were forced to (always found a way to avoid it).

[Jim Finn]

I have always used toothpicks or wood slivers, dry, but I like the idea of adding glue.

[John Coloccia]

I have always used toothpicks or wood slivers, dry, but I like the idea of adding glue.

On really small holes, I stick some really thin plane shavings in there instead of toothpicks. One "trick", if you can call it that, is after you put the screw in the first time, take it back out and wick a LITTLE thin CA into the hole to harden the threads....let that cure and put the screw back in. That's an old trick from my radio controlled flying days, where you're frequently taking wood screws in and out for various access panels.

Wood dust might work even better, but I've never been able to really try it because the dust doesn't give the screw anything to bite into until the glue sets.

[scott vroom]

This hole is a bit precarious. Directly behind the hole is where the bolt sits. So I cannot push whatever will fill the hole all the way down or it would interfere with the locking bolt.

Fill the holes with PL Premium and wet set the screws.

[Peter Quinn]

Nope. It's unnecessary because the screw completely compresses the wood and the glue into mush, making the choice of grain direction irrelevant.

Honestly, I'm really not out to make anyone believe anything. There's no reason to make theoretical arguments about what should or shouldn't be better. Toothpicks and glue are cheap, and so are holes. They can just try and see for themselves, but they must do it the way I said...screw it all together WET, or you won't get the right results.


Not picking a fight, but enjoying a good "theoretical argument". I too have tried it all, from epoxy to rope, tooth picks, chicken scratch I found on the floor. You mentioned that screwing into end grain was bad. So I wondered whAt is the alternative, and aren't the toothpicks end grain from the perspective of the screw? Truth is I have reinstalled some new cabinet doors into old pine face frames just exactly as you describe, except I left out the toothpics....just wet a screw with glue and rolled it in saw dust, very effective too. Hope I never have to pull that one back out.

Any difference of approach may be attributed to perspective. Lots of screws on guitars are barely if covered by hardware, I can see the need for less visable repairs using the existing hole. Worst case my tuning machine gets a little loose? From my perspective as a sometimes entry door maker/fixer, hanging a 100#-200# 3'-4' entry door on a handful of screws, where all the repairs are covered by thick brass hinges, tooth pics are not my best option. We do agree on the moisture, the whole thing works better if the screws are driven back in before the glue dries as the screw is the clamp. Trust me, my argument here is not even vaguely theoretical. I hate call backs. Bad for businessand reputation.

[John Coloccia]

The difference between the toothpicks/glue and straight endgrain is that when you screw into the endgrain, and sever the fibers, it's like severing through a stack of soda straws. All the strength is tensile strength, not shear strength, so I've had cases where the customer has really tightened the screws, or just from sitting in one case, and have pulled out a neat little plug of wood formed around the screw. I should have kept some pictures.

With the toothpick/glue method, on the other hand, the glue and toothpicks form a very strong bond in the original hole. It's not even really relevant what the grain direction of the filler is. Once you tighten the screw, it mashes everything up like a blender, and you get this slury of wood and glue that sets up tight around the threads.

But whatever works. I don't want to change anyone's mind. I'm just putting something out there to try. :)

[Chris Padilla]

This begs one to try an experiment of different hole filling ideas and then cut them apart and view cross-section areas or see if repairs fail or pull out or something.

I tend to use toothpicks and bamboo skewers for most hole filling but I've never driven in the screw while the glue was wet. That is a new one and sounds like a great idea.

[Kent A Bathurst]

35 posts on this topic?

Epidemic of cabin fever, methinks. ;)

[Chris Padilla]

Whole lotta hole problems, methinks. ;)

[Rich Riddle]

35 posts on this topic?

Epidemic of cabin fever, methinks. ;)

The quantity of responses surprised me, but in the future if someone searches it will provide sufficient advise and opinions.