Need help with startup tools

[Peter Choi]

Hey guys I need help with some tool decisions. I wanted to start a small woodshed in my apartment and was planning on buying a planer. Since I couldn't afford both a planer and a jointer but I realized that a planer will be too loud for my apartment. I was wondering if a jointer is as loud or will be quieter? Most of the wood i'm buying will probably be s4s because rough lumber is hard to come by in nyc and difficult to get without a car since everything so far away.

Would I be able to get away with hand planes, a router, and a jointer? And if the jointer is too loud, possible to get away without a jointer?

Ill mainly be making furniture, cheese boards, circular plates, benches, and chef tables.

[Mike Henderson]

If you're working with S4S lumber, you could very well do without a powered jointer and planer. For lumber that needs to be straightened, you can use hand planes and winding sticks. Replacing a planer is tougher (more work) but you can do thicknessing by hand with a scrub plane and a couple of bench planes. You don't need to purchase Lie Nielsen planes to do that. You can get used Stanley planes which will work fine.

Mike

[Julie Moriarty]

Run a power planer or jointer in your apartment and you may find your neighbors giving you the evil stare, or just sending a posse after you. Take Mike's advice. You'll get more satisfaction from using hand tools and your neighbors won't hate you.

[Peter Choi]

ok thanks for the tips guys! What planes do you recommend for straightening? I don't think i'll need that much planing if i do, I'll probably use the router with the jig. Also using the plane method for straightening, will it be straight enough where I can glue and joint a few 2x4's together to create a table top for a work bench or tables?

Also, the only tools I have is a square sander and a drill. I plan on buying a router, a circular saw, a few planes, some clamps, a ruler, and a biscuit joiner. Is there anything else that are needed?

And I wanted to make some winding sticks but how do you know if its true without the winding sticks to make them. Should I just buy the first pair?

[Ellen Benkin]

Check with your lumber source and see it they will joint and plane it for you. Most retail lumber sales places will -- Home Depot and Lowes won't. You will pay for the service but you will get home with wood you can use without further preparation. That's what I did before I had the tools to joint and plane at home.

[Nick Stokes]

I am a new WWer. I have a couple hand planes... good luck. I couldn't flatten a board to save my life with one of those...

The DW735 I got for $300 is easy, fast, and worth every cent. All I gotta do is remember to catch the board before it falls on ground.

[Marc Seguin]

For working lumber to final dimension a #5 is a good start. A #7 is handy for jointing, but you can do it with a #5 if that's all you have.

Running a router in your apartment will likely not make you popular with your neighbours either. Or a circular saw. To be honest, I can't think of any power tools that will make you friends if you're using them on any regular basis. Also, I'm curious why a biscuit joiner is on your short list ?

[John TenEyck]

Apartment dweller = hand tools, so forget about the router - it's just as loud as a jointer, etc. Buy a few hand tools and learn to sharpen and use them. When you eventually move some place where you can have power tools you'll be ahead of the game.

John

[Peter Choi]

unfortunately none of the lumber sources near my place don't joint or plane.

is a router that loud? Maybe I should just get a jointer since ill be doing most of the work during the day when people are at work. Living in NYC i Probably won't be able to move out of apartments. I use a 18v drill from ryobi and people haven't complained.

would planing and jointing be difficult with a hand plane? Im willing to learn and would love to do it but just trying to figure out how difficult it is to make furniture with all hand tools.

i also chose biscuit for jointing 2x6's together to for like a table top or bench top. Unless you guys know a more affordable or stronger joint option.

[Mike Henderson]

i also chose biscuit for jointing 2x6's together to for like a table top or bench top. Unless you guys know a more affordable or stronger joint option.
Just glue the boards together with a good wood glue - like Titebond - and skip the biscuits. That will be another tool you won't have to buy. Biscuits don't add anything.

There are books and DVD's that tell you how to prepare stock with hand tools. I don't remember the names right now, unfortunately. Hopefully someone else will chime in with some suggestions.

Mike

[Cary Falk]

Your router and circular saw will be worse then a jointer. It's the high pitch whine of a universal motor that is the problem. The jointer will have a induction motor which will be a low hum. I wouldn't want to be in the apartment next to either.

[Jeffrey Martel]

In an apartment, you shouldn't consider using power tools of any kind. Even then, using a hand saw will still transfer the noise through the floor to the neighbors below (trust me, I got yelled at for that in my apartment a few years ago).

Find a workshop space to rent out, or you may have to find a different hobby.

Perhaps take up woodburning or maybe scrollsawing if you can put it on some rubber mats so the sound doesn't get transferred. The scroll saw is the one power tool I can think of that might not be that noisy. Even a sander will probably make too much noise for the neighbors.

[Peter Choi]

So a jointer will be quieter than a router and circular saw? There is the option to ask my neighbors when they'll be at work and use it during that time. I only have 3 other apartments and everyone seems to be a little young professional. Which then would be more ideal since I can use more tools. I mean I still wouldn't use a planer but maybe jointer and then use hand joints.
Or there is also the option to have everything pre cut to a certain length at the lumber yard since they do have a table saw. Get my edges straight and then hand plane everything else which will avoid all power tools except a drill. And since no ones live below me cuz they are renovating the whole first floor. Probably watch a video or 10 on how to stock wood with hand tools.

I know its a lot of work and is just a hobby but if I can change it into a profession I would rent a studio. And I pretty much don't want to find another hobby especially since I love woodworking. Ever since middle school.

[matt stott]

As a lifelong inner city and apartment dweller I will bow down in awe if you can set up a full power shop in an NYC apartment! I use mostly hand tools now, and have even stopped using my cordless drill for an egg-beater type. I find I can do most things faster with just hand tools at this point, although the things that are harder are MUCH harder. I just adjust my designs accordingly, get the long rip cuts done at the lumber shop when I can and work to my shop's limits (and my own). Of the tools you mentioned, the jointer is probably the quietest (relatively), and would be the one power tool I would choose if I could ever convince the family. You will have saw dust all over your living space running power tools- one of the advantages of using hand planes is the lack of sawdust in your Wheaties, so plan for some serious dust collection, too.

The best upgrade I ever got for my shop/living room was a solid work surface. A real workbench, even if just a heavy board clamped to a solid table, makes everything much easier. It's all about secure clamping of the parts you are working- everything gets easier when the wood stops moving around on you.

Good luck- I love stories of small shops in cities- photos are always appreciated, too!

Matt

[Peter Choi]

Thanks for the tip! The first thing I do plan on building is a work bench but the problem is how do I get everything perfectly true without a true surface to work on. Which is going to be kind of a headache or to be able to put everything together. Definitely will post some pictures once I get it up and running!

also I've watched a video on how to prepare stock but once I stock everything and glue it up for say a tabletop would you use the same method as preparing just one piece of wood vs like 3-4 planks glued together?

[Charles Wiggins]

http://youtu.be/Ojeul33vXL4

[John Sanford]

In my experience in an apartment, you can get away with the following power tools:


Drill.
QUIET vacuum.
Sanders (if you have dust collection)
Jigsaws
Scrollsaw


I expect that you can also get away using

Drill Press.
Bandsaw (up to about 14")


Routers, circular saws, jointers, planers, tablesaws, mortisers, biscuit joiners, nope. No way, nyet, nein, non, uh uh.

You CAN get a lot done with just a jigsaw and hand held drill. Add in a few handplanes and chisels and Bob's Yer Uncle!

Were I in your shoes, and were I working indoors, not on the balcony, the first piece of equipment I would get would be a GOOD QUIET shopvac. (not ShopVac the brand). Festool, Fein, Bosch, and a few others make them. They are not cheap ($400+), BUT they will allow you to collect and control shavings, chips, sawdust and finer dust. The regular shopvacs you can get at Home Depot, Sears, WallyWorld, etc also work, BUT, they are much louder.

Then get a jigsaw, a low angle block plane, a bevel up smoothing (or jack) plane with a couple of extra blades with different bevel angles, a set of 4 chisels, a combination square, a 12' tape measure, a couple of files and rasps, some sandpaper and a sharpening setup. You'll be off to the races.


also I've watched a video on how to prepare stock but once I stock everything and glue it up for say a tabletop would you use the same method as preparing just one piece of wood vs like 3-4 planks glued together?
Yup, pretty much.

Consider looking at Japanese woodworking, the saws and planes and methods of work are optimized for working in small spaces. (The chisels are different, but not functionally so). Another thing you should consider is a book like The Unplugged Woodshop (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=71138&cat=1,46096,46120&ap=1).

Since you're in NYC, you have the opportunity to swing by Tools For Working Wood. The trip would be well worth your time. They are in Brooklyn (https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/more/directions.html).

[Charles Wiggins]

Saying a jointer will be "quieter" than a router or circular saw is a bit like saying a car horn will be quieter than a screaming banshee. While true, both are equally effective at disturbing the peace. There's also the issue of wood dust while WILL get everywhere unless you invest in some really great equipment.

[Joe A Faulkner]

For $30, Rob Cosman's "Rough to Ready" DVD isn't a bad investment. Prior to attempting to build your first workbench, I'll recommend buying a Black and Decker Workmate. Use it to build a couple of small, stout saw benches. Then use these as work benches to build your full size or apartment size workbench.

[Matthew Hills]

If I was in NYC, I would take a weekend trip to Brooklyn:
https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/more/directions.html

Matt

[Peter Choi]

Thanks for all the tips guys! I plan on buying a jigsaw, a few planers (4,5,7), and maybe the unplugged woodshop. I may buy some chisels but don't really know what to do with them. I plan on making some circular cheese boards and I'm guessing I can use the jigsaw, a filer, and some sand paper to get it circular. For my bench, I might be able to go to a woodshop at art school near my place because I have a few friends that go there.

Oh and i'll definitely check that shop out! I actually live in brooklyn but its still a pretty far trek out there. Ill probably go this weekend.

On another note, if I make a work bench thats perfectly true, will it matter if my floor isn't perfectly straight? its slightly slanted but I do plan on moving soon.

[Mike Heidrick]

Is a coop shop or makerspace group available in your area? You could just pay membership fee and have access to space, tools, and others in your area with similar interest.

[Mike Schuch]

I would highly reccomend getting a Black and Decker Workmate 425 or better instead of building a workbench. I have 3 of them of various vintages and they are very sturdy, have a thousand different uses and fold up to an easily storable size. My shop is 40 x 40 and I have a full wood working work bench but I use my workmates all the time. I use them as saw horses, tool stands, clamping tables, painting stands, what ever I can imagine.

308402

If your apartment is anything like the apartments I had when I was in school I would also reccomend staying with hand tools. Besides the noise power tools make they also throw fine dust all over the place. Even jointers and planers which produce large chips of saw dust also make their share of fine dust.

I have taken a couple of wood working classes at the local community college. Not only does taking a class give you shop privelages to a very well equiped shop but you will also probably learn quite a bit and projects progress nicely when you have a scheduled class time to work on them a couple times a week.

[Keith Weber]

Peter,

I have an apartment in Hong Kong, so I know all about apartment noises. As far as I'm concerned, the ONLY acceptable power tool for an apartment is a hand drill, and it should be used for rare things like hanging pictures or pre-drilling a screw hole. Routers, jigsaws, jointers, planers, or power saws of any kind are unacceptable for apartment living. The noise and vibration from these things resonates through the building, so it's not just your immediate neighbors that are going to get annoyed. At a very minimum, you're asking to be the outcast of the apartment, and subject yourself to numerous visits from the building security. On the more elevated end, you'll get visits from angry neighbors, the police, and possibly evicted. You don't want to be "that guy". That guy is rude, self-serving, inconsiderate, and nobody likes that guy. My woodshop, BTW, is not in my apartment (nor is it in Hong Kong).

You said you lived in NY. You might want to look into by a woodworking club that has a workshop and tools already set up. You'd pay by the month, or by the time you used, but you'd save money by not having to invest in your own machines. Here's a start:

http://blog.makersalley.com/post/51170134998/where-to-woodwork-in-new-york-hint-its

[Jim Matthews]

+1 on this.
Spend a little more on the lumber,
save a lot on a tool you can live without.

[Peter Choi]

I'm gonna try the all hand tools only first. At first it seemed like a lot of work but I always like the idea of well made hand crafted goods. I mean that's kind of how I buy my clothes. And I'm part hipster living in brooklyn coming from portland or. But in reality I'm really starting to like the idea of a hand tools only workshop. Plus I can woodwork whenever!

i have looked at all the woodshops around nyc unless there is some super underground one that no one knows about. But the fees are outrageous like 300-400 a month and then like a 400 dollar safety class. The cheapest was 150 with a 300 dollar one time fee which seems like not much but they fact it's an hour commute by subway and I have no car is a deal breaker. Maybe if it was close or I was making money off of this but I'm just building stuff for myself and some friends. Buying all that lumber having it delivered and then paying for storage or riding a cab seems like it will just cost too much. Plus I work a lot so havinh the freedom to work whenever and not wasting two hours back and forth seems too muh of a headache

[cody michael]

I would consider a nice bandsaw, setup right, I have hard they can cut as well as a table saw, and there reasonably quiet, and very versatile.

[Michael Moscicki]

I also do some woodworking in Brooklyn, however I have a basement that I use as my woodshop. That allows me to use power tools. I do have a scroll saw and it is not as loud as a router or lunchbox planer. That being said a scroll saw and something like the Ridgid Oscillating Spindle/Belt Sander would not be too far out of line to use in an apartment. The borg(Big Orange Retail Giant aka Home Depot) in NYC has 1/4 inch red oak and poplar that can be used for scroll saw projects. In 3/4 material they have Maple, Cherry, Poplar, Red Oak, and White Oak. It's not cheap compared to a real lumber dealer, but something to consider when starting off.

[Jim Dwight]

When I graduated college I moved to Philadelphia into an apartment. My degree is mechanical engineering and I had a good job but the money got eaten up quickly on rent, car payment, etc.. leaving very little money for furniture. I had a bean bag, a mattress and boxed spring set, and an old table my grandfather used to use - big enough for two people kind of. I got a two bedroom apartment and used the second bedroom as my workshop. I put a canvas on the floor and set up a table saw and used a lot of hand power tools. The belt sander probably made the most noise. I also had a cheap, noisy, shop vacuum.

The upstairs neighbors complained and we worked out a deal. I shut down all the power tools at 9pm. I didn't start up before 8am. And they didn't complain.

While power tools are noisy, they are not nosier than some people listen to music or TVs. I think hand tools are a good idea for getting along with landlords and neighbors but I also think power tools can be used if you are sensible about when you use them.

[mike mcilroy]

On another note, if I make a work bench thats perfectly true, will it matter if my floor isn't perfectly straight? its slightly slanted but I do plan on moving soon.
A lot of us don't have level or flat floors. Make the bench flat and heavy, really heavy so it doesn't move when you are trying to hand plane on it, then shim where needed.
Christopher Schwartz has good ideas for benches as well as step by step plans for a few benches.

[Mike Heidrick]

When ready for power tools, Id get a Shopsmith MarkV. They are fairly quiet, variable speed, in addition to the drill press/tablesaw/lathe/horiz drill/and disc sander that is the machine - you can get bandsaw, planer, jointer, accessories for shaper, accessories that use the same headstock. Used they can be affordable on craigslist. Perfect size for an apartment. You can use most of it with a shopvac for dust pick up.

[Jason Matisheck]

Even if the noise were acceptable, the dust created by power tools in the living space would be a non-starter for me.
Lost Art Press recently published a set of videos on starting woodworking from zero, including buying the kit of hand tools and building a workbench and sawbench with hand tools. (It's called "The Naked Woodworker") Hand tools generally require some setup and knowledge to get good results, which is why many newbies (including me) get frustrated. Some classes, or good books/videos, are invaluable.
http://lostartpress.com/products/the-naked-woodworker

[Mike Schuch]

A nice miter box can be had for cheap and would be a great addition to a hand tool shop!

308401

[Peter Choi]

I also do some woodworking in Brooklyn, however I have a basement that I use as my woodshop. That allows me to use power tools. I do have a scroll saw and it is not as loud as a router or lunchbox planer. That being said a scroll saw and something like the Ridgid Oscillating Spindle/Belt Sander would not be too far out of line to use in an apartment. The borg(Big Orange Retail Giant aka Home Depot) in NYC has 1/4 inch red oak and poplar that can be used for scroll saw projects. In 3/4 material they have Maple, Cherry, Poplar, Red Oak, and White Oak. It's not cheap compared to a real lumber dealer, but something to consider when starting off.

Which home depot sells maple and cherry? the one in bed stuy? Also where do you get your lumber? I tried meserole and the one in williamsburg but both don't have any other than oak, pine, and poplar when I checked. I also tried calling dykes, but they only have a little bit of mahogany.

ahhh a lot of people are saying i could use some power tools but I think I'm going to stay with hand tools except a drill.

And for sure getting a miter box!

[Michael Moscicki]

The ones in Long Island City and Glendale have maple and cherry. The one in Bedstuy does not carry cherry and I don't remember if they carry maple. Not in Brooklyn, but then again I have a car. I haven't been to the supposedly big home depots in Manhattan, so I don't know what lumber they stock.

75-09 Woodhaven Blvd
Glendale, NY 11385

50-10 Northern Blvd
Long Island City, NY 11101

So far I have only bought some 1x2 maple and cherry and 1/4 red oak from home depot. I have my eye on Feldman Lumber on Metropolitan Avenue, but have yet to see the inside of the place, so don't know what hardwood lumber they have. Their website only lists the following:


DOUGLAS FIR LUMBER
HEMFIR LUMBER
SPRUCE LUMBER
FIRE TREATED DIMENSION
PINE BOARDS
FIRE TREATED BOARDS-PINE/SPRUCE
CEDAR LUMBER & PRODUCTS
ACQ OR MCA TREATED LUMBER & ACCESSORIES
HARDWOOD LUMBER
SOUTHERN PINE LUMBER
ENGINEERED WOOD PRODUCTS

[Ellen Benkin]

You live in Brooklyn which has become a Mecca for furniture makers and woodworkers and you can't find a source of retail lumber that will surface the wood for you? Where do all those pros get their stuff? Mail order? There has to be someplace where they can go pick out their boards.

If I lived in an apartment house with a neighbor running power equipment I'd be very upset. I live in a single house and I'm always aware of the noise made by my power tools and how it annoys my neighbors.

Maybe you can find a shop where you can rent space and use their tools.

[Jim Matthews]

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/more/directions.html

Go see Joel. He'll help you.