Table saw decision

[Izzy Camire]

Hi Folks,
Ya this is another one of those help me make a decision on a table saw threads.

I had always thought I would go with a Sawstop (3hp 36" fence) but right now Powermatic is running their 15% sale and it makes the price of the PM2000 (3hp 30" fence) very enticing. Both have a good reputation and I am sure either would make a great saw for a hobbyist's workshop. I currently have a Craftsman contractor saw with a Delta Unifence that is 17 years old and I feel it is time to make a change.

So I would be interested to get input from everyone and especially those who own these saws on what would be considered the best way to go or why you like the saw you have.

I am also tossing around the idea of getting the saw with the 50" fence but I am not sure why I would need a fence of that size. So I would take input on that too. My workshop is 14'x32' so a larger fence would fit.

So chime in I'd like to hear what everyone has to say.

Thanks,
Izzy

[scott spencer]

The advantage of the Saw Stop is obvious. The advantage of the PM2000, not so much. Both are excellent 3hp Asian made cabinet saws. If the 15% off the PM has appeal, imagine how attractive a Griz G1023RL would look @ $1500....my point is, you're not buying in this price range to shave pennies. There's no question that I'd get the Saw Stop anywhere near this price. If my budget was smaller, and I wanted the most new saw I could afford, I'd get a Grizzly.

You can slide the rail of either saw farther to the right to gain close to 10" more capacity (http://lumberjocks.com/knotscott/blog/34563), so maybe the 30" configuration is plenty if extended to 40".

[Jesse Busenitz]

Well, just my two cents but have you considered used? I don't know why but used PM66's and Unisaws seem to be popping up all around me, and at a lot cheaper prices than both of the new saws. And since you have the room bigger is always better. Either way you go you'll love a cabinet saw!

[Andrew Hughes]

I like my saw because it's soo simple,on/ off switch ,blade move up or down tilts to the right,Top is flat fence is straight.No plastic parts to break.Cuts smooth and very quite.
And that's why I like my saw.Aj:)

[jack duren]

You buy SAWSTOP for the safety feature. Other than that its a coin flip. Have Delta unisaw at my shop and a couple POWERMATICS at work. All cut the same but the on/off is in different locations on the saws.::mad:

[Paul Cahill]

All good equipment until something unexpected happens. After that, is there any question?? Ultimately, buy what you want. Your decision!

[Lee Reep]

I'll not comment on the pros/cons to your saw choice -- good ones already made. But the 50" fence is probably nice if you plan to feed large panels thru it. I have a basement shop, so a 50+" saw width would be almost impossible. I was ready to buy a SawStop two years ago, and bought a Festool track saw instead. Ideal for breaking down sheet goods, which is a real need for me, I have a number of cabinets to make. I'll still get a SawStop at some point to replace my contractor saw, but will stick with the 36" fence. I gave my 1.75HP saw a little more life by installing a thin-kerf Forrest rip blade. All my crosscutting is on a radial arm saw or CMS.

Lots of choices and rationales for what to buy. :)

[Randy Red Bemont]

Take a good look at the Grizzly 1023RLX and save yourself some money. I have it and it is a great saw. Very strong and accurate right out of the box.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3-HP-240V-Cabinet-Left-Tilting-Table-Saw/G1023RLX

Red

[William C Rogers]

Most agree both are very good saws. As mentioned the safety of the SawStop is obvious. I also looked at dust collection. The reviews were the SawStop had better dust collection, but I don't know if this is fact. The main thing that led me to the SawStop was the fact I have two grandchildren who may want to learn woodworking and I would love to teach them. Or I could never let them use the saw, but I want to let them learn if they want. I did consider euro sliders, but I don't really know enough about them and they were more $ than conventional saws. Try to look and everything and make a decision on what you need.

[Pat Barry]

Be sure to factor in the added cost of the occasional Sawstop misfire / brake replacement / blade damage.

[Jim Andrew]

I would prefer to get a sliding table saw. Grizzly has a short stroke, G0700, and a longer stroke G0623, you can improve your crosscutting with either, and straight line rip with the longer stroke. I bought a Hammer, but if I were interested in saving money, would look at the Grizzly. See someone has a post going on 10% off coupons.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Grizzly 1023 and a Festool track saw would be my choice. 52" fence is a waste of Real Estate.

[Izzy Camire]

Thanks to everyone for their input. I think staying with my original plan of Sawstop for the obvious safety factor is probably what I will go with.

[Nick Stokes]

Thanks to everyone for their input. I think staying with my original plan of Sawstop for the obvious safety factor is probably what I will go with.

I bought a PCS because I couldn't say for certain that I would NOT have a momentary lapse in either judgement or focus over the next potential 20-30 years.

[John Sanford]

Unless you intend to be doing a lot of precision cross cutting of plywood sheets or precision cross cuts of other material and you don't have a miter saw of some flavor, the 50"+ extension is overkill. I will be getting a SawStop PCS 3hp here shortly, and, because of the way I'm configuring it, will end up with close to that, but not intentionally. I have an Incra 31" fence system that I'll be porting over from my Contractor's Saw, then I'll be shifting it to the right to accommodate the SawStop Slider, which will give me somewhere in the neighborhood of 45"+ rip capacity, although I'll have to reposition the carriage to take advantage of the additional capacity.

If I didn't have the Incra, I would get the 36" Bies style fence. As it is, I'll likely be getting a tracksaw down the road for when I need high quality single cut precision on sheet goods, simply because handling a big ol 4'x8' sheet of 3/4 Ply/MDF by myself isn't much fun. Currently, I break them down with a circular saw.

btw, if you do like your Unifence, you should be able to get the SawStop sans fence. IIRC, the 3hp PCS lists at about $2579 without fence. I, personally, would be inclined to take a Unifence over a Biesemeyer, of course YMMV.

[Kevin Womer]

I own a Sawstop. The saw is amazing, the dust collection is as good as advertised, plenty of power, and all of the benefits of a cabinet saw. I have never used a Powermatic, so I can't compare it to that manufacturer, but I would assume it is on par with that saw in every regard. The brake is a bonus, but without it I would buy this saw again. Try and get to a store where you can compare the two side by side if you can, or perhaps maybe someone you know has one where you can see it up close to help you decide. Maybe post a thread for Sawstop owners and see if there is anything they dislike about their saws. Most people have strong opinions about Sawstop, but I haven't seen much negative about them from owners. Call customer service for each company, I did, and was more impressed with Sawstop before and after I bought one. Have fun with your decision and best of luck!

[Jonathan Freinkel]

I dont think anyone regretted buying a sawstop..

I certainly feel that I would be better off if i had spent the money to buy one initially rather than "One day".. which is where i am right now.

Buy once.. cry once! And not because your injured ;)

[glenn bradley]

IMHO, if I were considering the PM2000 I would grab the Grizzly without hesitation. If I was going to spend close to $3k I would get the Saw Stop without hesitation.

The wonderful thing about opinions is we all have them. My exposure to the current Powermatic products makes their price-point unreasonable. Someone else will have the opposite opinion ;-)

Brands aside, there seem to be certain things that some suppliers do better than others. Powermatic's 3520 lathes, Grizzly's G0490X jointers, Delta's 18-900 drill press, etc. All these seem to hit a value to price-point sweet spot. That doesn't mean their "the best" choice for everyone.

[Alan Lilly]

IMHO, if I were considering the PM2000 I would grab the Grizzly without hesitation. If I was going to spend close to $3k I would get the Saw Stop without hesitation.

The wonderful thing about opinions is we all have them. My exposure to the current Powermatic products makes their price-point unreasonable. Someone else will have the opposite opinion ;-)

Brands aside, there seem to be certain things that some suppliers do better than others. Powermatic's 3520 lathes, Grizzly's G0490X jointers, Delta's 18-900 drill press, etc. All these seem to hit a value to price-point sweet spot. That doesn't mean their "the best" choice for everyone.

Agreed. Well said Glenn.

[bob cohen]

The notion that all asian machines all the same is simply not true in my experience. About a year ago, I moved across the county and sold all of my stationary tools, including a grizzly 8 inch jointer and 15 inch planer, and my delta unisaw. I replaced them with powermatic machines, including the PM2000. The powermatic tools are superior in my opinion. As an example, I can run my PM2000 continuously without dial calipers, tape measures and other items that typically clutter the area to the right of my fence falling off the table. This was not the case with my unisaw, even when new. The unisaw easily passed the dime on end test, but there were enough less overt vibrations that over time would cause valuable items to come crashing to the floor. The difference in quality between my new powermatic jointer and planer compared to my "comparable" grizzly machines is even more striking. The powermatic units were easier to set up, hold their settings better, and downright more fun to use. I would repeat my purchases in a heartbeat. Hope that helps.

[Rick Potter]

Since you have already decided on the SS, I will just mention that I had a 50" fence on my Unisaw, and cut it down to about 32", even though I had room. I have only missed it a couple times, and never since getting a track saw.

[Jim Dwight]

I am very happy with my DeWalt tracksaw. I got a package with 59 and 102 inch tracks for about $600. I think that's roughly half the Festool price for a similar setup. Review on Wood Whisperer is also pretty positive (but he does say he likes his Festool more). Even cheaper is the Grizzly. Reviews indicate it is a significant step down in performance but also in price.

My point is just that you don't have to have $1000+ in your pocket to start shopping for a tracksaw. Festool is definitely the leader, however, with more accessories available.

[Izzy Camire]

Thanks again for the continued input. I think I will go with the 36" fence. As I said in my first post I didn't see any need for the larger fence I just wanted to get input from others.

Someone above said he would get the Sawstop because he could not garantee he would not have a lapse of concentration. I feel the same accidents do happen and the brake on the Sawstop is a last ditch saftey feature.
I also feel the fact that you never see a Sawstop on Craigslist says a lot.

[Lee Reep]

Thanks again for the continued input. I think I will go with the 36" fence. As I said in my first post I didn't see any need for the larger fence I just wanted to get input from others.

Someone above said he would get the Sawstop because he could not garantee he would not have a lapse of concentration. I feel the same accidents do happen and the brake on the Sawstop is a last ditch saftey feature.
I also feel the fact that you never see a Sawstop on Craigslist says a lot.

I've been a woodworker for almost 50 years. Two years ago a "momentary lapse of reason" left me missing about 1/2" off the tip of my thumb. My first ever shop accident. That trip to the emergency room cost $4000. All they did was clean the wound, tape it, and sent me home. I was incredibly lucky. I could have lost a finger or a hand. I had a great recovery and most days I don't even think about my thumb.

Those they say they practice safety and believe they will never have an accident -- well, I hop they are right. I always thought I was very careful.

In regard to the price, that $4000 trip to the ER would have bought the saw, and plenty of cartridges. :)

[Steve Cowart]

For what its worth, here is a listing for a Sawstop on Craigslist,

http://austin.craigslist.org/tls/4841062114.html

I just went thru the same process and ended up with a Powermatic PM1000 with the 30" Fence for about $1600 (On Sale Last Week). So far VERY pleased with my choice.

Good Luck.

[Dave Bonde]

I have a P66 at home (bought new 15 years ago) never had a problem or complaint with it and SawStop at work, both are great saws - dust collection on the SawStop is better. If I needed another saw at home I would buy the SawStop just for the safety feature mainly because my son is using the table saw and it scares the @#$@ out of me even though he has had proper instruction. The idea of him having an accident and the thought I could have done more to prevent it is enough to justify any price difference.

[Izzy Camire]

Well I took the plunge. I bought a Sawstop PCS 36" fence yesterday. I'll get it when the snow clears some and I can put the pallet forks on the tractor.

[John Sanford]

Well I took the plunge. I bought a Sawstop PCS 36" fence yesterday. I'll get it when the snow clears some and I can put the pallet forks on the tractor.

You won't need the pallet forks. Cut the box open, remove everything except for the saw itself, and three average fellows can easily get it down from a pickup truck bed. Three stout fellows can probably do it without removing anything from the box first.

[Tony Leonard]

I can only speak to the PM2000. I have owned one for many years (longer than I realize - it still seems like my 'new' saw). I have been nothing but happy with it. I upgraded froma Delta contractor's saw and was quite pleased with the swap. I have not had any issues at all. Everything works well and came adjusted well. Everything is smooth and it feels good and heavy/robust. I can't recall what my fence capacity is, but I can't remember the last time I cut anything past a couple of feet wide (to qualify, I rarely use plywood). I really like the wheels. I don't use them much, but when I do, I'm so glad they are there and easy to use. Blade changes are easy. I love the knee bump off switch. Love the riving knife. So, no complaints. I have added a Brett Guard that I already owned. Oh, one thing I found about the fence - it has some "ripples" in it around where the attachment bolts are for the plastic face. Doesn't seem to hurt anything though and I didn't notice it until years after I bought it. The dust collection works well. Its a beast! It is heavy and solid. I cut some 1 7/8" cherry over the weekend and it doesn't hesitate! I use a Forest WWII full kerf. Anyway, good luck with your decision and enjoy your new saw!

Tony

[Izzy Camire]

Tony thanks for your input

[Frank Martin]

Well I took the plunge. I bought a Sawstop PCS 36" fence yesterday. I'll get it when the snow clears some and I can put the pallet forks on the tractor.

Excellent decision! Enjoy your new saw.

As long as one can afford it is a no brainer. I was also planning to upgrade from a USA made Unisaw to a SawStop but ended up with a Minimax combo machine instead. If SawStop came out with a similar machine or Minimax adopted the SawStop technology, I would absolutely upgrade as the value of having a safety feature to keep my fingers/hand safe in the event of an accident is multiples of the cost of a SawStop. Of course everyone has a different perception of value so I am not arguing against anyone who is completely happy with other options.

[Paul McGaha]

Congratulations on the new Sawstop Izzy,

Please post some pictures of it when you can.

PHM

[Izzy Camire]

Thanks Paul when I get it setup I'll post some pics. They said 3 weeks for it to come in.

[John Schweikert]

You won't need the pallet forks. Cut the box open, remove everything except for the saw itself, and three average fellows can easily get it down from a pickup truck bed. Three stout fellows can probably do it without removing anything from the box first.

No need for three fellows, just slide it down a ladder and you're ready to go. I had Woodcraft forklift it into my truck bed and then moved the saw pallet myself. It's less than 300# with the fence packaged separately.

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/web-photos/pcs-load-in.jpg