Domino DF500 vs DF700

[Prashun Patel]

I just upgraded my Domino from the DF500 to the DF700. This post takes nothing away from the DF500. I loved it and it worked wonderfully on small as well as larger items that required tenons up to about 3/8" thick.

There are a lot of debates here about which machine is more appropriate and the consensus is that unless you are doing doors and tables, the DF500 is a more appropriate choice. I disagree with this assessment.

- The DF700 is not significantly heavier than the DF500. That is, it's comfortable and stable to use even on skinny stock. I was surprised to find this.

- The D style handle is easier for me to use on the 700 than the 500. Gripping the barrel of the 500 near the plug worked fine, but when I felt the D handle of the 700, I realize how great it is. Anyone who has used a Domino knows that keeping it plunging straight and true takes a little concentration and control on end grain cuts. The 700 makes it easier than the 500, IMHO.

- The 700 has a height offset up to 50mm. This was probably the biggest sticking point with me on the 500. The 500 can go higher if you remove the dovetailed plugs, but the 700 enables this greater offset out of the box.

- The plunge depth adjuster is better designed and more intuitive IMHO on the bigger unit. On more than one occasion I over plunged my df500 because of that switch.

- Instead of 2 pins on the fence, there are 6, and they lock out of the way in any pattern you wish. This makes repeated offsets extremely customizable. In fact, this enables the machine to be used to make longer stopped slots for splines. I know there are other ways to skin this cat, but this eliminates having to set up another machine.

- Here's the big kicker. I purchased a small bit adapter from Seneca (the guys who make the Domiplate). This allows you to use the 500 cutters. So, cutting mortises at 5mm or 6mm width is still entirely doable.

[Peter Quinn]

I'm with you all the way on this. I like the XL better in every way, only reason I can think to buy the smaller one at this point is cost....and maybe that small parts jig if you do a lot of 1" rails, but you could probably fashion something for the XL to a accomplish that? Or do they actually have a small parts centering jig for the 700? Anyway +1 for the 700.

[James Zhu]

Paul Marcel did a very good comparison between 500 and 700, http://www.halfinchshy.com/search/label/Domino%20XL%20%28Domizilla%29.

[Victor Robinson]

I agree with this as well. I currently have both - thought I'd sell the DF500 but just haven't gotten around to enough smaller stuff lately to say for sure.

The XL is certainly more ergonomic despite the weight. I really enjoy using the 500 with the Domiplate though, and the Domiplate for the 700 is not quite as simple to use.

[Kevin Jenness]

We have both at work and they work well at the scale each one is designed for. I will say that the 500 has an advantage in making t-joints for casework in thinner materials- using the 700 for say 3/4" stock would require using an offset because of the cutter height from the baseplate. If I were to choose just one for frame joinery it would be the 700 with an adapter for smaller cutters, but for normal scale casework the 500 would be preferable.

[Chris Padilla]

I've never used a 700 but I'd sure be curious to try one for a day. I have done everything under the sun with the 500 and I haven't longed for the ability to do larger tenons/mortises. In fact, I rejoiced when they came out with the 4 mm cutter/dominos as I use that one quite a bit. The 4 and 5 mm are my go-to bits. I rarely use the larger ones. The 5 mm is perfect for 3/4" stock (plywood and hardwood) and the 4 mm is equally nice for 1/2" stock. I may have to look into this Domiplate. For 3/4" stock, I often use the bottom of the 500 as my reference as it is 10.5 mm to cutter center and that works just fine IMO.

[Prashun Patel]

Chris-
This was an impulse upgrade for me. You're probably right. But it tastes so good. Come on, Brother! Drink some more Kool Aid. I know you're a Greenie. Jump in and help me justify my splurge!!!!

[Chris Padilla]

Prashun,

Honestly, I just can't see a need to 'upgrade' to the 700. The 500 does so much for me. It does so much that I probably could sell enough tools and have money to get the 700! :D You know, it HAS been a while since I bought a new Festool tool. All purchases have been for replacement parts, wear items, router bit here and there (needed a 3 mm bit, for example), etc. In fact, the Domino may have been my last purchase and that was many many moons ago. I stared at the Kapex but that 10% just wasn't enough. I look at the routers all the time but then again, I have about 5 already of PC and Bosch variety and they all work great save for lousy dust collection but I just haven't pulled the Green router trigger. :) So sorry, Buddy, you're on your own! :p

[Craig Hoehn]

I would have to disagree that the 700 is easier to use than the 500. I had the 700 for a few weeks and I just couldnt get as good as accuracy as i could with the 500. The weight IS a big factor, hold the 700 by the fence and look at the machine at eye level and it clearly droops down, now you can adjust the fence for this but it will be off if you hold the domino differently. Using the adapter is also finicky as i had a couple mortises that were oversized when using the 700 (this was with the exact same 5mm bit that i used on my 500). I was so frustrated with the adjustments and the weight of the machine I just returned the 700 within the 30 day trial period. I really wanted to like the 700 so that i could have one machine to do it all but it just didnt work out that way for me. To anyone wondering what they should buy i usually say get the 500 because that will handle the majority of jobs unless you know for sure you are going to be building doors all the time or really only want it for the big stuff then get the 700.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for that little review, Prashun. A Domino is the one Festool tool that I still want and don't have yet. That's very useful information!

[Dan Wiese]

Prashun, I am in your camp with the 700 Domino. My accuracy improved significantly after buying the 700, I believe primarily because of it's weight and slightly different marking and indexing system. It is quite a bit heavier but for me that made it more stable. There were many jobs using my 500 where I was slightly off and all I can attribute that too was the light weight off the smaller 500. I do however consider both machines to be fantastic as they immensely improved my case, drawer, picture frame and overall furniture construction results. With hindsight, the 700 would have been my only purchase but the 500 does come in handy for smaller joining. I can see where the 700 could be considered too unwieldy due to its size and weight but it has proved itself for me.

[Prashun Patel]

I completely understand how people think the DF700 is bulky. However, I never found the DF500 NOT bulky. Both are tricky to line up on skinnier stock. The close spacing of the pins on the DF700 really helps though.

I'm completing a project now using 12mm tenons. One nice thing I notice is that cutting wider tenons on the table saw (if you prefer making them yourself) is easier and feels safer with wider stock. They're just easier to work with all around. As a result, I find I make them more precisely than the smaller ones.

[Victor Robinson]

I completely understand how people think the DF700 is bulky. However, I never found the DF500 NOT bulky. Both are tricky to line up on skinnier stock. The close spacing of the pins on the DF700 really helps though.

I'm completing a project now using 12mm tenons. One nice thing I notice is that cutting wider tenons on the table saw (if you prefer making them yourself) is easier and feels safer with wider stock. They're just easier to work with all around. As a result, I find I make them more precisely than the smaller ones.

Prashun, are you rounding the edges of your tenon or just using straight stock? I've experimented with round edges but it's a little hairy at the router table.

[Prashun Patel]

On the tenons bigger than 10mm i roundover the edges. On 8mm and smaller i just bevel at 45 on the tablesaw.

[Chris Padilla]

I wonder how many use the Domino tenons versus making their own? I have made my own floating tenons in the past for a cedar gate and did cut the mortises with the Domino but I think that was the only time.

[Prashun Patel]

But tenons are expensive. I usually have so much extra waste stock, it's really a good repurposing of scraps.

Also, you can make the tenons wider to fit the larger slots snugly if you wish. The 5 and 6mm tenons are a little tricky for me since I have a tough time making perfectly square narrow stock like that on the ts safely, so I plane them with a sled.

[Chris Padilla]

Perhaps they are...I never really looked too deeply into it or thought about it. I guess I just pay for the convenience of grabbing a ready-to-go tenon. I bought the systainer full of Dominos at the same time I bought the Domino cutter and I doubt I've used more than 20% of them. I've only added a bag of 4 mm Dominos when they became available. I tend to use my scraps for edging on plywood.

[Jim Becker]

- Here's the big kicker. I purchased a small bit adapter from Seneca (the guys who make the Domiplate). This allows you to use the 500 cutters. So, cutting mortises at 5mm or 6mm width is still entirely doable.

Bringing your thread back up, Prashun, because I'm considering purchase of a Domino in the "recent future" :) ...the first new tool purchase for me in years, honestly. I've been internally debating on which unit and your comments in the OP have convinced me that the XL is the way to go. What I just quoted from your post kinda seals the deal, too. Being able to still use the small cutters is an incredible advantage and makes the range of M&T sizes from the Domino very wide. So I'm glad I did this little search of previous discussion and found your thread from February near the top. Thanks!!!

One quick question to bring further purpose to me dredging this up...have you continued to make your own "domino" material or are you just using the stock from Festool? (Just curious)

[James Zhu]

Bringing your thread back up, Prashun, because I'm considering purchase of a Domino in the "recent future" :) ...the first new tool purchase for me in years, honestly. I've been internally debating on which unit and your comments in the OP have convinced me that the XL is the way to go. What I just quoted from your post kinda seals the deal, too. Being able to still use the small cutters is an incredible advantage and makes the range of M&T sizes from the Domino very wide. So I'm glad I did this little search of previous discussion and found your thread from February near the top. Thanks!!!

One quick question to bring further purpose to me dredging this up...have you continued to make your own "domino" material or are you just using the stock from Festool? (Just curious)

This thread http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-how-to/make-your-own-dominos/ is about making your own domino, so you could save some cash :)

I also bought the beech domino tenon assortment for 500 and 700 when I bought XL, since domino tenon assortment for 500 has 5 cutters for 500.

Btw, buy this set http://www.senecawoodworking.com/products/smal-mortise-set-for-festool-domino-xl-df700 from Seneca woodworking for your XL, so your XL can use small cutters for 500, also center the cutter head on 1/2 and 3/4 ply effortlessly.

[mreza Salav]

I have the 500 and so want to have the 700 but can't justify the price at this point. If I was given the option right now to swap my 500 for 700 (paying some extra) I would do it.

[James Zhu]

I have the 500 and so want to have the 700 but can't justify the price at this point. If I was given the option right now to swap my 500 for 700 (paying some extra) I would do it.

XL (actually all Festool products) is getting really expensive in Canada because of the sinking Canadian dollar along with crude oil :(, $1940 for the set. I bought mine when Festool had 10% off on Domino last time.

[Bill Adamsen]

I actually bought the Seneca bit and have it jostling around in my car's coffee cup holder (I hope) and I don't yet have the XL700. I'm envious! One of these days.

[Prashun Patel]

Hi jim. I make my own stock. Its a noble use for all my scrap.

[Mike Goetzke]

Bringing your thread back up, Prashun, because I'm considering purchase of a Domino in the "recent future" :) ...the first new tool purchase for me in years, honestly. I've been internally debating on which unit and your comments in the OP have convinced me that the XL is the way to go. What I just quoted from your post kinda seals the deal, too. Being able to still use the small cutters is an incredible advantage and makes the range of M&T sizes from the Domino very wide. So I'm glad I did this little search of previous discussion and found your thread from February near the top. Thanks!!!

One quick question to bring further purpose to me dredging this up...have you continued to make your own "domino" material or are you just using the stock from Festool? (Just curious)

Jim - earlier this year I bought a used XL that looked brand new. It had the Seneca adapter and Domiplates. I added the small bits (CMT from Holbren) and the Imperial thickness gauge from Seneca and couldn't be happier. Years ago I had a 500 and sold it since I didn't use it much. I had two display cabinets to build and a crib to build for our first grandchild and ended loving the 700. The crib took close to 200 mortises! In my mind I always thought the Domino set up time would take too long so used other methods but the crib project showed me the Domino is not only very versatile but a time saver. I made some of my own custom stops using PVC pipe and made a trim stop to use with my Domiplate to make the many mortises in the crib slats. Actually made it fun to use. I also made my own tenons from some white oak scraps I had and they worked out great.

Mike

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for the followup, Mike, Prashun and others! (Counting my pennies...LOL) And Thanks also for the reference to Seneca.