Cheap Home Depot Finish Nails

[Steve Mathews]

I opened up a box of Grip Rite finish nails that was purchased at Home Depot recently and was disappointed to find that the quality is not what was expected, at least not what I purchased elsewhere in the past. The heads were sloppy, the metal seemed to bend more easily and they were coated in a thick layer of dirty grease. What happened to the quality of finish nails of yesterday or is this just another cheap offering by Home Depot? BTW, I'm finding more and more that Home Depot is offering less and less in the way of quality merchandise.

[David Linnabary]

I opened up a box of Grip Rite finish nails that was purchased at Home Depot recently and was disappointed to find that the quality is not what was expected, at least not what I purchased elsewhere in the past. The heads were sloppy, the metal seemed to bend more easily and they were coated in a thick layer of dirty grease. What happened to the quality of finish nails of yesterday or is this just another cheap offering by Home Depot? BTW, I'm finding more and more that Home Depot is offering less and less in the way of quality merchandise.

Are they resin coated?

David

[Steve Mathews]

No, they're just plain finish nails. The coating was definitely blackened oil that probably came from the manufacturing process. After handling just a few nails my fingers were so black and oily that I couldn't handle the trim that I was installing. Worst though is the quality of the nail head. They were badly formed and looked nothing like a proper finish nail.

[Bill Orbine]

Try buying your stuff at the local yard. Same brand. You might be surprised the quality is so much better. I was. That goes for screws, too!

[Jim Dwight]

I use one of my pneumatic or cordless nailers, so I haven't purchased finish nails in a long time.

At the urging of my builder, I bought the trim for an addition at his lumber yard. It isn't as convenient because they are only open during the day during the week but the cost for the trim is much lower. They are happy to sell to me. My guess is fasteners would be cheaper too. Quality of the trim isn't noticeably different from a home center but there are options I've never seen there - clear softwood trim and low density MDF trim. Lengths are 16 or 17 feet which is harder to haul but nice for waste reduction. I also bought one pre-hung door with the trim I wanted - those in the home center only have a very basic casing I don't care for.

[Mark Wooden]

First, if you're going to hand nail (and I'm all for it!) spend a little more money and buy Maze brand nails, made right here in the USA. They have always had a superior product. I don't think they make a common finish nail, but their hardened hardwood finish nails are excellent.

As to the nails you got, I feel your pain. I've returned nails for those very reasons. There's no way an interior product should be so filthy and poorly made, even if they are "just nails".
I was once told by a retired hardware salesman this- in some countries,many industries are 'communal' and the same product may come from a modern factory or from Uncle Chang's backyard forge; all of it goes to the same barrel for market. So quality and specification may vary widely on the same item, and a nail is a nail is a nail.

[lowell holmes]

I buy from the big box stores, but often times their merchandise is inferior. Find an independent yard. They probably have better quality.

[Steve Mathews]

Thanks everyone for the responses. It felt better getting it off my chest. The casing and trim that I'm installing are all hardwood, oak and maple so pre-drilling and hammering finish nails seemed to be in order. To further the rant and probably what bothers me the most besides any store being so presumptuous to think anyone wouldn't notice slipping in such inferior products without noticing it is also that it is all so unnecessary. How much can a nail cost to produce properly? What can be possibly saved in the initial purchase with junk like this?

[Prashun Patel]

The quality of ALL fasteners has gone downhill. You really have to shop wisely for nails and screws these days.

[Art Mann]

We live in a world in which price is the overriding buying criterion. Most companies don't manufacture inferior product because they are trying to trick anyone. They make it that way because of consumer demand for the lowest possible cost. The first principle that governs almost any company is to stay in business. Companies can't do that unless they deliver what the public wants. I hate it but about all we can do is reward good suppliers with our repeat business even if it costs substantially more.

By the way, my comments have absolutely nothing to do with the country of origin of any particular product.

[Ray Newman]

Art Mann: BINGO!

[James Baker SD]

The quality of ALL fasteners has gone downhill. You really have to shop wisely for nails and screws these days.

Absolutely true. My dad was at least twice as strong as me. He never broke a wood screw driving it in. Little weak me breaks screws all the time. (yes I use the proper size pilot hole). Can only be much lower quality screws than 50 years ago.

[Steven Satur]

Another thing which people might not agree with me on is Home Depot sells at the lower price because the venders have to cheapen the quality of the product. I bought hand tools at HD and the same tool, same model they were cheaper then the ones bought at a industrial hardware store. The power tools are the same, Buy a Dewalt screw gun at HD and another from a ind. hard. store take them apart and they are two different animals.

[Myk Rian]

Since it costs HD to send products back, they just throw it in the trash. Big ticket items like $1,000 BBQs get crushed first, even if there is a minor problem with it.
The supplier doesn't hear about it, and continues supplying junk.

[Art Mann]

Another thing which people might not agree with me on is Home Depot sells at the lower price because the venders have to cheapen the quality of the product. I bought hand tools at HD and the same tool, same model they were cheaper then the ones bought at a industrial hardware store. The power tools are the same, Buy a Dewalt screw gun at HD and another from a ind. hard. store take them apart and they are two different animals.

I have heard that claim many times but I have never actually seen it. Until somebody comes up with hard core evidence, I don't believe it. Tool manufacturers can't compromise their brand name integrity by selling what amounts to counterfeit goods nor can they accept the legal risk of deceptive advertising. My opinion is that HD and Lowes sell cheaper because they buy in huge quantities and can get a better wholesale price than a local hardware store. There is also the economy of scale. A large business runs much more efficiently than a small one, all other things being equal.

If you have actually compared allegedly identical tools sold from a chain and independent store that turn out to be different, why not post some photos?

[Kent A Bathurst]

Another thing which people might not agree with me on is Home Depot sells at the lower price because the venders have to cheapen the quality of the product. I bought hand tools at HD and the same tool, same model they were cheaper then the ones bought at a industrial hardware store. The power tools are the same, Buy a Dewalt screw gun at HD and another from a ind. hard. store take them apart and they are two different animals.


Yep. A race to the bottom of the price curve between THD + Lowes. Leads to reduced quality as vendors fight to maintain profitability under the very serious demands made by their customers.

[Jim Dwight]

I would use a pneumatic, or my Ryobi cordless brad nailer, on oak and maple trim too. Smaller hole, less chance of a ding from a poorly directed hammer blow. But pneumatic nails are hard to hand set if they don't quite go all the way in.

I don't think that merchandise at Home Depot and Lowes is poorer quality or uniformly of lower grade, I think they sometimes get in sub-standard material like all businesses. A lumber yard dealing with contractors is going to hear about it quickly if they get some bad nails. HD or Lowes may not, the customer may just throw them away and take their loss. The contractor will be disturbed by the wasted time to replace the substandard product as much as anything.

I bought all the plumbing fixtures for our last house at Home Depot or Lowes. The plumber who did 2 1/2 of the bathrooms said they were fine (they were all Delta or Moen) but the packaging messed him up a little. Normally they would get the control valve before the walls were closed in and install it. Later, after the wallboard and other finishes were up they would come back with a trim kit and install that. HD and Lowes sells all of that in one box. So the plumber had to store the trim kit and find it a couple months later. He almost lost the trim for the Master Shower but ended up finding it. So there was a risk/convenience issue but not a quality issue.

I do not believe any reputable manufacturer would identify parts as the same that had significant differences. That would create a whole lot of headaches for them. This isn't the first time I've heard of it. There is a BMW repair expert who writes for the Roundel, a national publication, that states Bosch spark plugs from the dealership are not identical to the same part number part from an independent parts place. I don't believe that one either. It's possible for a retailer (and certainly a car manufacturer) to impose their own characteristics on the part. But the manufacturer then gives it at least a little different part number.

[Steve Mathews]

I would use a pneumatic, or my Ryobi cordless brad nailer, on oak and maple trim too. Smaller hole, less chance of a ding from a poorly directed hammer blow. But pneumatic nails are hard to hand set if they don't quite go all the way in.
...

You are not concerned with splitting hardwood with a brad nailer?

[Peter Kelly]

First, if you're going to hand nail (and I'm all for it!) spend a little more money and buy Maze brand nails, made right here in the USA. They have always had a superior product. I don't think they make a common finish nail, but their hardened hardwood finish nails are excellent.Agreed. Maze nails are only slightly more expensve and about 1,000 times nicer than the crummy Grip-rite ones sold at the box stores.

Sterling nails are also good.

[Tom M King]

I bought probably 2,000 pounds of nails in 50 pound boxes from an old school building supply going out of business auction, in the late '80s, for very little, including a fair assortment of Maze, but probably all made in America. Since I use nailguns when doing any nailing to amount to anything, I probably have enough regular nails for a couple of more generations. I was off somewhere, and bought a pound of 6d cut nails. The heads were so tremendous that I just threw them away. About the only ones I buy, if I can help it, are some special type from Tremont.

[Peter Quinn]

I reject the notion that the consumer is wholly to blame for this race to the bottom. Partially sure, but not wholly. The big box moves into an area, comes in with very low prices, almost predatory, they can sell at a loss for a while. As long as it takes to put the local yard under. And if you watch one of these stores carefully, you can perceive when they think they have the local market cornered, because the quality starts slipping, the prices start creeping. Its little things all across the board. I'd like to say that I absolutely refuse to shop at these big boxes, but its not true, I do shop there, but always wary, and some things I just wont touch. Take electrical receptacles. Buy a leviton receptacle from the local electrical supplier, there is a little spring behind the connection screws to make installation at odd angles easier, like screw up, which is the case fro at least half the installations I've done. The big box...no spring, so you are trying to get the wire around the screw and the screw keeps collapsing on itself....Im not making this up, check it out for your self. So a receptacle from the big box is maybe $.15 cheaper than a supply house? And thats to a consumer, I'm sure electricians buying case quanties would actually pay less at the supply house. And for the $.15 you save you get an exercise in great frustration. Of course if you don't know any better, you think thats how its supposed to go, but I grew up with a dad who was an electrician, and have probably put in 500 receptacles as an indentured servant, so I do know better. Somebody has to chose every single item in those stores, somebody in the back office purchasing department. And they are big enough to negotiate for items specific to them, they have bought entire product lines. Remember when Ryobi was a serious competitive company with quality innovative tools to rival the best, but at very fair pricing? Or when rigid was an independent maker of plumbing tools? Point is they don't sell themselves as the quality leader, they sell themselves as the low price outlet, and sometimes as the "value leader".

It is they who have done the "value engineering".....thats marketing BS for "how can we cut corners on this to lower the price to us without these idiots noticing?" SO they value engineer the entire store, cheapening things in lots if little insidious ways that add to their bottom line, save you a few pennies but leave you with greasy fingers and stained millwork.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Peter -

So - how do you really feel? ;)

I don't think it is the consumer per se that is the problem - I think it is the under-educated consumer that acts on price alone - they see a very enticing #, and go for it. Not realizing that, in your example, duplex receptacles are not all created equal.

Having said that - they do pick critical items in each category, and sell them as loss leaders. For example - the run up to Memorial Day, July 4th, and Labor Day weekends - you will often see incredible prices on pressure treated 4 x 4 - 8' posts and landscape timbers [LST]. THose items grab attention in the Sunday supplement. And - they will sell them below their cost without blinking an eye, if it fits their marketing strategy. Shoot - I worked for a company that supplies PT lumber to the BORG, and there were times that the stores would be selling LST below our cost to produce - not to mention our price to them. THey would sell by the truckload - literally in some cases.

Why? To get the feet in the stores. You don't do anything with only a 4 x 4 post. You need joists, joist hangers, galvanized nails, etc - and the margins on them [just like razor blades] is big, and offsets the give-aways - as long as you get the volumes up.

I can easily see the same thing on the duplex: get 'em in the store to buy those, but they need other stuff to go with it, and it is not worth the time to have the guys make 2 or 3 stops.............

[Jason Roehl]

You are not concerned with splitting hardwood with a brad nailer?

It happens, but with some technique, not very often. Pneumatic brads have a chisel tip to them. If you orient the "blade" of the chisel parallel to the grain when you shoot the nail near the end of a trim board, you'll split it almost every time. If you turn the nailer 90º so that the chisel cuts the wood fibers, and don't get too close to the end of a trim board, no splits.

[Mel Miller]

You are not concerned with splitting hardwood with a brad nailer?

I've put trim, some oak, up in several projects over the past several years with a brad nailer and haven't had problems with splitting.
I did have problems nailing trim up as it liked to move a little as you drove the nail in, leaving corner gaps, etc.
With the brad nailer it stays where you want it to.

[Mort Stevens]

Most companies...make it that way because of consumer demand for the lowest possible cost.

Any yet we have Powermatic, Festool, Rolls-Royce, Rolex.... there's a market segment that isn't concerned with cost and still values quality.... I'm one of them, but the store around me often don't give me a choice and I'm forced to buy what they stock.

[Ole Anderson]

Surprised anyone still uses finish nails anymore with the advent of inexpensive nail guns. Much easier for trim. I have an 18 gauge and a 15 gauge Bostitch, along with a 23 gauge pinner.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Any yet we have Powermatic, Festool, Rolls-Royce, Rolex.... there's a market segment that isn't concerned with cost and still values quality.... I'm one of them, but the store around me often don't give me a choice and I'm forced to buy what they stock.

Not if you are willing to drive extra miles to.............Oh....no....wait...........you are hosed.

They will ship the Rolex, tho......The Roller - not so likely.

[Mike Cozad]

I do not believe any reputable manufacturer would identify parts as the same that had significant differences. That would create a whole lot of headaches for them. This isn't the first time I've heard of it. There is a BMW repair expert who writes for the Roundel, a national publication, that states Bosch spark plugs from the dealership are not identical to the same part number part from an independent parts place. I don't believe that one either. It's possible for a retailer (and certainly a car manufacturer) to impose their own characteristics on the part. But the manufacturer then gives it at least a little different part number.

One wrinkle to toss out there is not all items you buy are made in the same plant on the same line, but will carry the same part number, packaging, etc. Contract manufacturing is a perfect example. The contract mfr is given a set of specs to follow. As long as they meet those minimum specs, they fulfill their customers expectations. As a part of the process they have the flexibility and the obligation to their shareholders, board, etc. to reduce cost and increase margins. This can lead to fit and finish issues, premature failures, and on and on. They even have the leeway to buy materials that meet minimum specs from an inferior supplier as long as the material is functionally the same. But due to mfg process differences, the materials are simply inferior.

So it is possible to get inferior grade items in the same packaging with the same part number......

[Robert Delhommer Sr]

More quality (LOL) product of china no doubt.

[Mark Wooden]

So it is possible to get inferior grade items in the same packaging with the same part number......

Communal barrel......

[Larry Edgerton]

Senco.

And I need to type more to get it to post.......

[Bryan Cramer]

Communal barrel......
That sounds a lot like Harbor Freight.

[william watts]

I bought nails from HD a couple years ago and could not drive them without bending about 1 out of 4. I thought my hammer skills had severely declined over the years but when I looked closely at the nails they were pre-bent from the factory! They all had a slight curve, and appeared to be very soft metal when compared to my coffee can stash of old nails. I went to ACE hardware and was surprised to find american made steel nails that drove beautifully. The box they came in had "steel" in big printing meaning other nails, are something else, don't now what that could be?

[Cody Colston]

I have heard that claim many times but I have never actually seen it. Until somebody comes up with hard core evidence, I don't believe it. Tool manufacturers can't compromise their brand name integrity by selling what amounts to counterfeit goods nor can they accept the legal risk of deceptive advertising. My opinion is that HD and Lowes sell cheaper because they buy in huge quantities and can get a better wholesale price than a local hardware store. There is also the economy of scale. A large business runs much more efficiently than a small one, all other things being equal.

If you have actually compared allegedly identical tools sold from a chain and independent store that turn out to be different, why not post some photos?

+1
I bought a John Deere lawnmower from HD because the local JD dealer didn't have the model I wanted in stock. He told me the ones at HD were the same ones they sold through JD and carried the same warranty.

[Art Mann]

I reject the notion that the consumer is wholly to blame for this race to the bottom. Partially sure, but not wholly. The big box moves into an area, comes in with very low prices, almost predatory, they can sell at a loss for a while. As long as it takes to put the local yard under. And if you watch one of these stores carefully, you can perceive when they think they have the local market cornered, because the quality starts slipping, the prices start creeping. Its little things all across the board. I'd like to say that I absolutely refuse to shop at these big boxes, but its not true, I do shop there, but always wary, and some things I just wont touch. Take electrical receptacles. Buy a leviton receptacle from the local electrical supplier, there is a little spring behind the connection screws to make installation at odd angles easier, like screw up, which is the case fro at least half the installations I've done. The big box...no spring, so you are trying to get the wire around the screw and the screw keeps collapsing on itself....Im not making this up, check it out for your self. So a receptacle from the big box is maybe $.15 cheaper than a supply house? And thats to a consumer, I'm sure electricians buying case quanties would actually pay less at the supply house. And for the $.15 you save you get an exercise in great frustration. Of course if you don't know any better, you think thats how its supposed to go, but I grew up with a dad who was an electrician, and have probably put in 500 receptacles as an indentured servant, so I do know better. Somebody has to chose every single item in those stores, somebody in the back office purchasing department. And they are big enough to negotiate for items specific to them, they have bought entire product lines. Remember when Ryobi was a serious competitive company with quality innovative tools to rival the best, but at very fair pricing? Or when rigid was an independent maker of plumbing tools? Point is they don't sell themselves as the quality leader, they sell themselves as the low price outlet, and sometimes as the "value leader".

It is they who have done the "value engineering".....thats marketing BS for "how can we cut corners on this to lower the price to us without these idiots noticing?" SO they value engineer the entire store, cheapening things in lots if little insidious ways that add to their bottom line, save you a few pennies but leave you with greasy fingers and stained millwork.

Your experience with wall outlets does not correspond to mine. Every time I go to Lowes to buy them (which is fairly often), I am presented with at least three buying options. First, there is the third tier "contractor pack" which tells you who the target market is. These pieces are flimsy and poorly made (just like you said), but the cost is something like $0.69 in dozen quantities. Most new houses are populated with these because the homeowner doesn't know the difference and they want a cheap house. Then there are the individually packaged second tier product with the same brand but of entirely different and better quality. The cost is maybe twice what the third tier product is. That is the product I use in my houseand other houses I have worked on. Then there is the top tier product that is often grey in color. These outlets are by far the most expensive but they are mechanically very solid and are usually designed for 20A rather than 15A. These are the ones I use in my own shop and garage.

Would you care to speculate on which produce sells in the highest volume?

[Steven Satur]

Also, you will net see Sthil sold at the box stores because they will not cheapen their product.
A salesman once told me that HD will go to a manufacturer and say "we will buy 10 million of your whatever and we will pay you somuch per unit, the manufacturer at the price that HD offered to pay, has no choice but to cheapen the product.

[Larry Edgerton]

Also, you will net see Sthil sold at the box stores because they will not cheapen their product.
A salesman once told me that HD will go to a manufacturer and say "we will buy 10 million of your whatever and we will pay you somuch per unit, the manufacturer at the price that HD offered to pay, has no choice but to cheapen the product.


An idea pioneered by Walmart. Read " The Walmart Effect"

[Kent A Bathurst]

An idea pioneered by Walmart. Read " The Walmart Effect"

You really don't want to be a supplier to the BORG or to Walmart - you get hooked in at fantastic volumes, other-worldly demands on ancillary topics in the relationship and you can end up where your entire business has become focused on that one account - you basically have no leverage in the business relationship. And they keep hammering, hammering, hammering on price.

[Mel Miller]

+1
I bought a John Deere lawnmower from HD because the local JD dealer didn't have the model I wanted in stock. He told me the ones at HD were the same ones they sold through JD and carried the same warranty.

Your experience is different from mine. A couple of years ago I was in the market for a nice JD mower. I looked at HD and 3 JD dealers.
The mowers at HD were cheaper, but not the same model numbers. HD did not carry the same models as the JD dealers.
I asked several knowledgeable people about it and they assured me the mowers from the JD dealers were better and worth the difference.