RAS cleaning/restoration

[Matt Day]

I was in need of a "project" to keep my mind busy while i don't have a furniture or shop project going on. It's the dead of winter and I'm a stay at home dad to two young kids so I need something to keep my mind active!

So last weekend I picked up a Delta 33-891 turret radial arm saw, made in 1986. So it's not vintage but it's got some years under its belt. It has minimal rust but has a buildup of what I only can assume is grime and pitch in it that I can seem to get off without being very aggressive with a wire brush.

I've already got it disassembled about 75% of the way and am enjoying learning the ins and outs of the saw. My question is, what's the best way to strip and paint it? I've never painted a machine before, or really any metal before. Do I need to strip it down to bare metal? I was planning on using rattle can primer/paint. I've found a few discussions, blogs, rebuild tutorials, but they don't seem to detail the painting process as much as I'd like. Could somebody point me to a good painting tutorial? I need to know if I can just take a wire/scotch brite wheel to it or if I just need to rough/clean the surface.

[John McClanahan]

I have a 1979 year of that saw. The old DeWalts have nothing on these old Deltas. Mine has the same grime. For me, I just knocked of what would come off and started using the saw.


John

[Matt Day]

I have a Dewalt 7790 that is in use now, so I'm glad to hear the Deltas are better in your opinion.

I bought this saw as a project ($150 btw), and Besides just taking it apart and cleaning it and tuning it, I think painting it would be fun and add a custom touch.

Nothing wrong with using a cosmetically dirty saw of course. It's not like the paint color will affect the performance.

[Doug Ladendorf]

Matt, there may be a topic on painting on the wiki at vintagemachinery.org but offhand I'm not sure. If the paint is sound and you can get anything off that is loose you should be OK painting over. If you have access to a bead blaster that would be taking it to the next level. I prefer that over wire-wheel but if you have to pay that's another factor.

Have fun and post pix along the way.

Doug

[Matt Day]

Doug, I couldn't find much about painting on the OWWM wiki. If you can find anything, please let me know. The paint does seem to be very sound, and I have not found any flaking anywhere. it would be nice if I could do a wire wheel and then prime and paint. I will continue to do some research and hopefully get some input here before I go any farther though.

I do need to do better about taking pictures, I was so focused on first getting the machine into my car, and then getting it out of my car and it's in my basement in one evening, but I failed to take any pictures. And then I was so into starting the disassembly process, I didn't take any pictures of that before. That's why I don't have a blog or anything, LOL.

[Mike Wilkins]

I am currently finishing up an older Craftsman bandsaw which has lots of cast iron. I just used a wire brush in a drill for the large parts, and a bench grinder with a coarse and fine wire wheels for the hand-held stuff. I also used a Dremel with wire brushes for nooks and crannies and hard to reach areas.
As for painting; lots of folks, including me use the rattle cans with great success. I use the Rustoleum Industrial primer (tall cans from Lowes), and a good quality paint for the top coat. Several light coats please-to prevent running and drips.
good luck and have fun

[Matt Day]

Thanks Mike, that's what I was hoping to hear.

[Robert Payne]

Just remember to wipe down all surfaces with a solvent soaked rag to remove any oily residue and allow it dry thoroughly before you start any spray painting. The surface must be oil free.

[Lee Reep]

Depending on whether you want it to look original, or just look good, probably means two different courses to follow. If cost were not a concern, I'd have an auto body shop paint it. But you said you are a stay-at-home dad, with two kids, so maybe you will prefer to paint it yourself. Kids are expensive! :)

I've had really good luck with some of the "hammered/hammertone" type of finishes from rattle cans. They tend to go on quite nicely, and can cover minor imperfections. Plus many of the colors have a pretty decent "industrial" look to them. Check out Rustoleum's line called Universal Hammered Spray Paint.

[Matt Day]

Thanks for the suggestions Lee, I'll look into it. I don't care to restore it to original, it was too drab for me. Nothing crazy though.

[Matt Day]

Robert, what kind of solvents do you recommend?

[Mike Schuch]

That should be a nice saw for you! I look forwards to seeing the end result!

For painting I usually try to just get all the shine off the original paint if it is adhering well. Sand paper or a Scotch bright pad does a nice job of knocking the shine off good paint. I usually only resort to a powered wired brush or powered scotch bright disc if the original paint is flaking or chipping. I have painted many machines with Hammerlite paint and it is my favorite. I have also used the Rustoleum hammered finish paint with excellent results. I have never primed my machines before painting with the mentioned paints and always gotten excellent adhesion with them. I like using acetone for a final wipe down before painting to remove any oil and residue.

Looking at your pictures I would just go over the surface with a non-powered Scotch bright pad, wipe with acetone then paint with hammered finish paint.

I have a couple of machines that I refinished with Hammerlite 15 years ago without primer that do not have a single chip or nick on them.

[Matt Day]

Great! Thanks a lot for your advice Mike!

[Mike Schuch]

Your welcome.

I have a Davis Wells horizontal boring machine that I refinished several years ago. I spent several hours buffing it well with a Scotch bright pad. Then when I wiped it down with acetone the remaining paint melted. I ended up scrubbing it down to bare metal with acetone and a non-powered wire brush.

My point, test acetone on your existing paint before spending many hours buffing with a Scotch bright pad. Once the acetone softened that particular original paint there was no way that the new paint would have held. This probably won't be an issue for you but it will only take a couple of seconds to test.

[Matt Day]

Will do Mike, good advice.

A couple other questions:
What do you do with small bolt holes - cotton, wax?
I have a couple circular areas that I don't want paint on where the turret rotates for instance. Would you use wax there instead of tape? Any taping tips?

[Mike Schuch]

Most bolt holes I don't worry about. If the bolt hole is threaded the bolt will ream the paint out when you reinstall the bolt... this is just what has worked for me it is not a bad idea to cover the holes like you suggest. Cotton, a wad of paper or even a wad of paper towel should be plenty.

I have never used wax for covering parts. I don't get too anal about taping stuff like the machined surfaces of the turret off. I just slap some tape on and trim with a razor blade. If a bit of over spray hits an area like the turret machined surfaces it is really easy to remove with a razor blade or steel wool with a bit of paint thinner. I worry a lot more about doing a good job of taping things like badges off where I would not want to clean them off later with steel wool and ruin them.

Your column base and arm have some rust coming through the paint. I would surface sand this with a Scotch bright pad but I would not worry about getting every trace of rust removed. Hammerlite sticks very well to metal but it sticks even better to sanded down rust. The sanded down rust gives the paint something to bite on. I have used other paints that don't do well with a bit of surface rust... but Hammerlite and Rustoleum hammer finish paint both adhere very well to rust that has had the surface powdery stuff sanded off.

For rattle cans I recommend thin to medium coats. The can will tell you after what time it is best to recoat. It seems like I usually apply a second or third coat after about 15-30 minutes... before the base coat has cured. This allows the top coats to interlock with the lower coats.

[Don Jarvie]

Lots of good advice. To clean the screw holes I use a pipe cleaner that has the metal brush to clean cooper pipes. I also cut the handle off one and chuck into my drill. Twist in right and then left to back it out. I also ball up masking tape to put in the holes. I also use paste wax when I put the bolts back in. Just stick the bolt in the wax.

i have a 16 inch jointer on deck to restore. I need to wait for the good weather to repainted it. I like to spray auto paint.

[Robert Payne]

Robert, what kind of solvents do you recommend?
Matt, I would avoid a solvent like acetone since it may dissolve or loosen the existing finish. Instead, I'd use mineral spirits until I was fairly certain that all of the grime and oily residue was removed and then repeat with a clean cloth and fresh mineral spirits to get all remaining residue. The suggestions to use Scotch Brite pads to roughen the surface are good as a final step if you plan to use the spray paint.

[Don Jarvie]

What I like to do is after I take everything apart I give all the parts a wash with Superclean. It takes all the grease and dirt off. Just was and rinse. There is no residue left over.

Superclean will fade the paint so keep this in mind if your not going to repainted everything. I repainted everything so this is not an issue for me.

[Matt Day]

I've heard good things about super-clean.

So what's the general order of things once disassembled?

Clean loose dust/dirt
Scotch brite wheel or pad stubborn grime and light rust
Superclean
Paint

How many coats do you normally do? I might have to wait until warmer weather to paint as I don't have a spray station inside.

[Myk Rian]

I have a 1979 year of that saw. The old DeWalts have nothing on these old Deltas.
Well, I beg to differ. I've had both. Equal in my eyes, but I like my DeWalt because of the single arm.

Anyway, I've used needle scalers, (loud, messy, used tons of air), wire wheel brushes, (messy, tends to round off the paint instead of getting it off), and chemical strippers.
I prefer the strippers.

[Doug Ladendorf]

I've heard good things about super-clean.

So what's the general order of things once disassembled?

Clean loose dust/dirt
Scotch brite wheel or pad stubborn grime and light rust
Superclean
Paint

How many coats do you normally do? I might have to wait until warmer weather to paint as I don't have a spray station inside.

Warmer weather certainly helps at a couple of stages. I think your order looks good. +1 on Superclean. I always scrub with it, then rinse with water to get all the grime and paint off (it will remove paint though not to the extent of a stripper). If you can lay the parts in the sun to dry that helps and I also blast with air to speed things along and get in the holes and crevices. Then you will need to mask, at least I do on machined surfaces. I take a bit of paper (I have a roll of that pinkish rosin paper (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Trimaco-36-in-x-166-ft-Heavy-Weight-Red-Rosin-Paper-36099/202040752) handy), make a tube then slip it into threaded holes where it expands in place. For large surfaces I use paper for the bulk taped down along the edges, then trim with a razor blade. I also like to remove the machine plates rather than mask them off. They are usually not too difficult to remove and put back on, and I like to know it's done right. How far you go with these things depends on how you feel about that project.

I like the hammered products too. I've had success with other Rustoleum rattle can but on large surfaces it can be a challenge. I've also found I can skip primer. One of the projects I worked on will chip down to the primer pretty easily. I thought I had sanded the primer enough but despite the marketing claims I've found primer does not necessarily provide a better bond with the finish paint. Now I just go straight to the paint, usually two or three coats depending.

Doug

Oh, one other thing: take lots of pictures of the parts you are disassembling! It will help immensely when reassembling. Also get a box of ziplock bags for the shop and a couple of sharpies. Bag and label things as they come off to keep things together and identified. Have fun!