Finishing a Root Ball

[Alan Gan]

I am working on a bowl from some wood I found a couple months ago. It will be my 1st Root.

It may come out very cool but I need suggestions on the final finish.

There are some defects at several areas some pretty deep voids. Picture this as a bowl that will not hold water very far from the bottom because of the voids. The area is darker and rough, how will I finish these voids, Brush or Spray or what?

[charlie knighton]

picture helps....also what type of wood???????????

[Alan Gan]

picture helps....also what type of wood???????????

That may help, Thanks.

It is Mesquite and hard as a rock. The blank is sound and I did add a little CA into some deeper areas for support.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k66/photolinks/WoodWorking/Root%20Ball/DSCN2242_zpszjkkxznh.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k66/photolinks/WoodWorking/Root%20Ball/DSCN2241_zpskcn6dhuo.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k66/photolinks/WoodWorking/Root%20Ball/DSCN2240_zpsn3n37nq8.jpg

[charlie knighton]

for me Danish oil or Mahoney's walnut oil......either would do for finish.......before hollowing I would wrap the outside with duck tape or seran wrap or something......looks like a nice piece......jerry sent me a piece from the Arizona desert once....mesquite really does get hard, it almost is like learning to turn all over again....good luck

[charlie knighton]

that first picture is dangerous........I think Scott H sometimes uses some epoxy......not a fan of what it would look like with this piece, but that first picture is scary.....maybe put on catchers mask and vest before turning any further

[Alan Gan]

that first picture is dangerous........

I hear ya but it is not as fragile as it appears in the Picture. The one point at bottom of bowl is solid but if to come apart that would be the place, got some worm holes going on that I cleaned out and may fill .

[Alan Gan]

How would you finish it to get the finish down into the crevices? Spray?

[charlie knighton]

I would use a foam paint brush, you may have to cut one up so it will go in the crevices , maybe a ear cotton swab,

go to harbor freight and buy a bag of foam paint brushes, take you list for harbor freight....duct tape, masking tape, foam brushes, air brush gun and extra bottles, compressor, check the ad.......

[Thomas Canfield]

I use a section of Bounty paper towel to apply a Danish oil type finish on most pieces including ones with worm holes, bark, cracks, whatever. I apply a heavy coat and let sit for 5 to 10 minutes and then wipe off with dry Bounty towel. I try to remove any excess from voids or cracks, and very seldom have any run out during the drying process which is 24+ hours depending on temperature and moisture. Soaking is about the only way to get finish down in recess areas.

[Alan Gan]

I would use a foam paint brush, you may have to cut one up so it will go in the crevices

Thanks Charlie,

I do not think I asked the correct question.

If I wanted a Satin or even Gloss finish how could I get that shine into the recesses where it cannot be buffed? That is why I asked about spraying, and by that just using a can of Polyurethane. I am new to turning but that even seems like a cheap way to complete a project like this. I think this turning will have some very nice grain pattern.

I have looked around but have not found a buffer that would work on these very uneven areas of the bowl.

[Paul Williams]

I have done two small root balls with similar voids. I used wipe on poly for the main part and used a small (1/2 inch wide) paint brush to get WOP into the crevices. WOP is thin enough to run into almost anything.

That is going to be a beautiful piece if it holds together. Remember that there is no reason to go thin on a piece with voids. leave enough wood to support the area around those voids. Be careful.

[charlie knighton]

maybe use oil and then some rattle can lacquer......never have tried any poly on mesquite.....maybe some others will chime in, Thomas just uses the oil....he lives in texas and sees lots of mesquite I reckon......maybe Bill or Wally have some thoughts

[Pat Scott]

That first picture scares me. The tenon is too deep and will bottom out in your jaws. Also it looks like there is a big pie-shaped chunk just waiting to break out.

As for finish, I would use a small paint brush to apply oil in the recess. The cheaper foam brushes can leave little bits of foam stuck to the bark or other rough areas, so I would use a regular brush instead. I wouldn't try to buff the recess and I wouldn't worry about the recess not being as shiny as the rest. You'll likely have a shadow line from the recess and different texture of bark/wood, so not having the same sheen in the recess is expected. I'd be careful about using rattle can lacquer because I have a tendency to apply too much lacquer while trying to get every nook and cranny.

[Steve Doerr]

Alan, I have a 5 gal lidded bucket that I keep my blend of oils in and just dip my pieces in it. That way you get good coverage through all voids, cracks, etc. Once dipped, I let it drip all of the excess oil off back into the bucket and then use a paper towel to remove any left over oil. I have also used my air compressor to blow out some of the oil that collects in the voids or inclusions. This helps to keep a consistent finish level in those area as compared to the rest of the turning.
HTH and am looking forward to seeing the finished product.

[Eric Gourieux]

Alan, I do a lot of glossy finishes on pieces with voids, and I don't worry too much about getting the gloss finish into the crevices. I usually apply an oil to the piece first and make sure to get the oil into the crevice, though.

I agree with Pat that your tenon APPEARS to be too long. It should not bottom out in the chuck.

You have a nice piece of wood there. Good luck

[Alan Gan]

That first picture scares me. The tenon is too deep and will bottom out in your jaws. Also it looks like there is a big pie-shaped chunk just waiting to break out.

Thanks Pat, I now know what Charlie meant by scary. I missed it due to my lack of experience. That is if Charlie was talking about the Tenon...

I do need to ask Pat, is the tenon not supposed to be bottomed out into the chuck?

As soon as I chucked it up I knew there was going to be problem, it was like a sponge. As I was tightening down the jaws they just squeezed on the holes. Turned at 100 and in less than 30 seconds bowl was loose, the defects in the Tenon were worm holes. I remounted it back on the Face plate and removed the tenon, ended up with one worm hole and one worm that I extracted from the blank.

So now I am a bit stuck, the 1 worm hole is right at the tenon area and I am not sure what to do at this point. The hole is deep, at least over an inch deep into the blank. Not sure how to chuck it up to turn the inside???

[Eric Gourieux]

Alan, the tenon is not supposed to bottom out. The front edge of the chuck jaws should fit solidly against the base of your piece, and there should be good contact between the outside of the tenon and the inside of the jaws AND between the front edge of the jaws and the bottom of the wood. It looks like your tenon is long enough that it may prevent good contact between the front edge of the jaws and the bottom of the piece. As for re-mounting, you have a few options:

1. screw to a faceplate, turn and hollow, reverse chuck and turn the bottom. You will sacrifice some wood, due to the screws in the faceplate.
2. turn another tenon to the proper size. If this is one of your first with a tenon, you will find that, sometimes, you have to sacrifice some wood to be able to mount it safely. That's a killer, I know.
3. glue your piece to a more solid piece of wood you are willing to sacrifice (called a "glue block") and turn your tenon on the glue block. Then, mount the glue block end into your chuck, turn and hollow. When you reverse your piece, you can turn off the glue block and finish the bottom of the piece. There are various ways of accomplishing this, and you can find numerous threads here on SMC that discuss this.

If the wood is spongy, or punky, you can try saturating the tenon with thin CA glue to give it some strength.

And the most important thing you can do when turning a piece like this is WEAR A GOOD FACESHIELD and stay out of the line of fire as much as possible.

[charlie knighton]

actually I did not notice the tendon, I thought that the area in question was like a fish you caught, hold it close to the camera and it appears larger, I was scared of the bark inclusions...........hope you post the finished piece, it looks as it will be a winner

when I first started doing hollow forms I did not know about bottoming out, luckly I did not kill myself, and luckly I went to see Nick Cook demo the elbo tool....it was quite the revolation........Nick is still one of my waypoints in the curve

about that time one-way came out with the "tower jaws"

[Pat Scott]

What Eric said.

My choice would be #2. Completely remove the current tenon and cut a new bigger tenon out of solid wood. You'll lose some depth off the bottom, but not much.

The yellow arrow is pointing to part of the crack. The red arrow points to a tool mark that is just past the crack. If you have bigger jaws, you could cut a new tenon and stop at the tool mark (red arrow) or just a bit bigger. Make the tenon 3/8" deep (which is plenty), make sure you have a flat spot for the top of the jaws to set against (2nd picture, blue arrow), and you're good to go. My Vicmarc dovetail jaws are roughly 1/2" deep, which means a tenon can never be longer than that. Remember, longer does not mean stronger.
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The top of the chuck jaws need to sit square against the bottom of the bowl (blue arrow), you never want the tenon to touch the bottom of the jaws. If this happens, it won't run true and you are more likely to have a failure, like the tenon snapping off. A larger diameter tenon is always stronger than a longer tenon. The reason is you have longer side grain fibers.

[charlie knighton]

Pat, your picture #2 is well done, also your observation that a larger diameter tendon is always stronger is something we all should follow. good pictures , like your arrows