calling all craftsman 113 expert's

[Michael J Evans]

Hi guy's,
recently purchased my first table saw ( craftsman 113.299040) with the stamped steel extensions payed $70... spent many many laborious hours stripping everything down & de rusting and lubing.got it all put back together , runs great ,blade's square ect.after all that work i sorta feel like i have a connection to this saw.....
well today i found a great deal on another 113 but newer i believe 113.2986xx but with cast iron wings for only $40 so i picked it up. figuring the $40 is worth the cast iron extensions alone. so i figured id swap the wings/extensions and sell this one, well in my rush to get the saw i didn't notice it was missing a handle and the miter gauge.
anyways to my question, is there any reason to keep the newer saw over the older one? i noticed the newer saw's motor is listed at 1.5hp whereas my older saw is 1hp, are they really both the same? is one better than the other? also the handle on the newer saw if cheap crappy plastic. i really have to sell one of these as my single car garage is already packed and i justified the new purchase to the wife that i'd sell the other. any idea's on what the newer saw would be worth if i put the sheet metal wings/extensions on it, with the missing miter guage and one handle?
and on a side note are these saw's really worth putting a new fence on? i see lots of rigids going used for 300-400 used which is about the same amount of $$$ ill have into the craftsman by the time i put the new fence on. im not going to be making cabinet's or anything my wife just wanted me to make her some table's and misc stuff.
wow sorry for the long post, any thought's / insight appreciated.
thanks

[Rick Potter]

Not an expert, but I have had one. Keep the older one, strip the wings and motor off the newer one, keep the stand from the stripped one for something else, and dump the rest. It sounds like money is tight, but you are getting more than $40 worth of parts.

By the way, check the one you strip for aftermarket parts, like steel pulleys, link belt, and PALS (google it).

About the fence, keep an eye out on CL for a decent fence, you see them from time to time. Sears even made a decent aluminum fence I have seen used for $75.

Remember all advice is worth what you pay for it.

[Britt Lifsey]

Check the amps of each motor not what is posted on the saw. More amps is more power.

[scott spencer]

The newer motor likely has an additional capacitor. I've never done a head to head comparison which motor is stronger, but a motor rated 1.5hp with two caps tends to fetch more on Ebay than the older 1hp single cap motor. I think the amp ratings will be close....likely 14 amps, possibly 13 amps on the older motor. Keep which ever parts you like best. The parts generally net more than a complete saw would. You should be able to sell the fence, wings, switch, motor, motor mount, leg stand, inserts, and any blade guard assembly parts that you have...Ebay gets more exposure than your local CL, but CL is free so it doesn't hurt to post there as well.

A fence upgrade will help performance a lot. Whether you can justify adding $200 to the cost is up to you. You might find one of the newer contractor saws with the better Ridgid style XRC Alumarip fence....picking up a whole saw and parting out what you don't want can be the cheapest approach.

[Lee Schierer]

I have a 113 saw. The miter gauge is not important. Get a Kreg miter gauge and you will love it. Add a good T-square type fence and you'll have a good saw. Look at the motor label for the amps. Use which ever motor has more amps listed. Personally I like the cast iron wings betterm even with the openings. Sawdust falls through them and I feel they give better support to the wood.

[Dick Brown]

Interesting side note on the Craftsman motors and their ratings. I have picked up several of the 113 saws that say 3h.p. but in smaller print they say "Maximum Observed" but on the motor it is rated 1-1/2 h.p. on the tag. Then, the really interesting thing is I had a Craftsman motor off a saw that was rated 1 h.p. but stamped more amps than the 1-1/2 motor. I am sure if you tried to pull 3 h.p. out of either one of these motors, it would happen seconds before the smoke came out. I am working on a 113.29940 that I picked up for $20. the other day with a dead motor. Thought it might be a capacitor but wasn't so putting on a 2 h.p. that I had. Will be building a Biesemeyer Home Shop clone for it. Do need another wing but a friend thinks he has one. Craftsman saws are fine with a decent fence. Should make someone a nice saw.

[Rod Sheridan]

Check the amps of each motor not what is posted on the saw. More amps is more power.

Incorrect.

A low efficiency, low power factor motor will draw more current and may produce less power than a high efficiency, high power factor motor.

regards, Rod.

[Michael J Evans]

dick - i took a look at both motors and the 11/2hp has a 13amp draw whereas the 1hp has a 14amp draw

i think ive decided to just keep the second saw and disassemble and store it, although i highly doubt anything will ever go wrong with it except the motor... ever part is solid cast iron. another option might be to sell it piece by piece on flea bay. funds are tight but $40 is well worth the cast iron wings & isn't gonna break the bank...although my wife thinks otherwise.

on a couple of side note's maybe you veterans can help me out with some questions and order of purchases,
i have the original splitter and anti kick back pawls and guard... i've been using it without them, i am no table saw expert but would really like to avoid kickback or worse. should i leave the original splitter on it? im thinking im going to take the guard off as i really dont like the idea of not clearly being able to see the blade? or would it be better when the funds come available to get an MJ splitter when i decide to but a new insert?
and my order order of purchases
1) new blade.. im thinking a freud gp 40t blade?
2) new fence system.. either a delta t2 or maybe a vega utility?
3)zero clearance insert
4) mj splitter system.
5) homemade mobile base

thanks again & correct me if i need to move these questions to a different thread

[Lee Schierer]

on a couple of side note's maybe you veterans can help me out with some questions and order of purchases,
i have the original splitter and anti kick back pawls and guard... i've been using it without them, i am no table saw expert but would really like to avoid kickback or worse. should i leave the original splitter on it? im thinking im going to take the guard off as i really dont like the idea of not clearly being able to see the blade? or would it be better when the funds come available to get an MJ splitter when i decide to but a new insert?
and my order order of purchases
1) new blade.. im thinking a freud gp 40t blade?
2) new fence system.. either a delta t2 or maybe a vega utility?
3)zero clearance insert
4) mj splitter system.
5) homemade mobile base

thanks again & correct me if i need to move these questions to a different thread

The best way to avoid kickback on that saw is a precision alignment of the blade to the miter slot and the fence to the same miter slot. The splitter that came with it is about useless.

1) new blade.. im thinking a freud gp 40t blade? Get a Dedicate rip blade I use a Freud LM75R010 10-Inch by 30t TCG 5/8-Inch Arbor Glue Line Rip Saw Blade Us a 60 tooth blade for cross cuts. I use grip tite feather boards (http://www.grip-tite.com/) when ripping and have never had a kick back when using them.
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2) new fence system.. either a delta t2 or maybe a vega utility? I have a Biesmeyer and love it.
3)zero clearance insert - you definitely want to do this. I found that Luan plywood with a reinforcing rib under it works great.
4) mj splitter system.
5) homemade mobile base - I'm not sure how well the sheet metal legs will like getting pushed, even on a base.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I had a 113 saw for years, Made a fortune using it. But had two annoying problems. First, when elevating blade, it cocked to the right, and it took 64 revolutions of handle to tilt blade to 45. Other than that it was a good saw. I did upgrade to a true 2.0 HP motor, which I already had on hand. Gave the saw away with original motor, and put 2 HP on my new (pre 1984) to me Delta.

[Michael J Evans]

The best way to avoid kickback on that saw is a precision alignment of the blade to the miter slot and the fence to the same miter slot. The splitter that came with it is about useless.

1) new blade.. im thinking a freud gp 40t blade? Get a Dedicate rip blade I use a Freud LM75R010 10-Inch by 30t TCG 5/8-Inch Arbor Glue Line Rip Saw Blade Us a 60 tooth blade for cross cuts. I use grip tite feather boards (http://www.grip-tite.com/) when ripping and have never had a kick back when using them.
307749
2) new fence system.. either a delta t2 or maybe a vega utility? I have a Biesmeyer and love it.
3)zero clearance insert - you definitely want to do this. I found that Luan plywood with a reinforcing rib under it works great.
4) mj splitter system.
5) homemade mobile base - I'm not sure how well the sheet metal legs will like getting pushed, even on a base.

Thanks great info, i think ill get the rip blade first, then the insert and then save my penny's up for a new fence.
tbh until just recently i never new what a feather board did. i have some good scrap oak i might try making my own.
as far as the mobile base im going to research a little and might try making some braces to stiffen up the legs before i go full throttle with the base.

[Jim Dwight]

When comparing induction motors (motors without brushes) you can ignore effiency differences. They are all 90+% efficient with any difference in efficiency to small to offset even a 1 amp different in current. A universal motor, they type with brushes used mostly in portable power tools, is significantly less efficient than an induction motor and thus not directly comparable.

I have an old true 1hp motor I used to use on a home made table saw. It is more powerful than the 15A universal motor in my BT3100 table saw even though it draws the same 15A. But I don't see the Ryobi as less powerful. They both need a clean sharp blade with the right kind and size of teeth if they are going to rip 3+ inches of hardwood. But with the right blade, they will do it.

Unless you plan deep rips in hardwood, I would start out with a universal blade, I like them to have 50 teeth with 40 of them ATB and 10 flat top ripping teeth. I like Freud but I have a DeWalt of this grind that works fine. After that, I would get a 24 tooth ripping blade, I recommend Freud but there are others. Thin kerf is OK but full kerf blades work fine for me as long as they are clean and sharp.

[Bob Turkovich]

Michael,

My first - and only - table saw is a Craftsman 113.xxxxxxx that I purchased new in 1993. It was a great saw for someone who could not afford to drop a lot of money on an initial purchase but could upgrade piece-by-piece as time went by. (Sounds like you...). Here's my advice...

1.) Put the cast iron extensions on - pronto. While my initial purchase came with the CI extensions, I eventually upgraded one side to a Bench Dog CI router table. The added mass of a solid extension really helped lower the vibration of the saw. I would expect that the web CI extensions would provide the same over stamped.

2.) I also have the Freud 40T combination blade but I bought it after getting a 10"x 30T rip blade and a 10"x60T crosscutting blade (both Freud). I figured if I was making cuts in MDF or particleboard, I didn't want too use my "cut-specific" blade to do the dirty work. My brief experience with the 40T on hardwood was rather meh. There have been some Creekers who have used Forrest blades to do all cuts with good success so if you can afford it, it may be better than getting multiple blades.

3.) I can't say anything good about the original fence (although there are some that have no problems with it). I upgraded to a Craftsman Align-a-Rip fence which eventually wouldn't stay aligned. I then got a Delta T2 and have been quite happy with it. You will have to drill multiple holes in the cast iron top but with a little patience it's not that hard. There are a couple of threads on the Creek with excellent instructions on how to install it on a 113.

4.) +1 on ZC inserts and MJ splitter. Both improved the safety of the saw and the quality of the cuts. BTW - featherboards can quickly become your friend...

5.) Re: mobile base. I installed an HTC mobile base and it greatly improved the ease of moving the saw about the shop. A homemade base should work well as long as you have braces going to all 4 corners. If you're just going to brace for now make sure the braces are as close to the ground as possible. (There are some holes in the legs about halfway down the legs that look like they were made for bracing - don't use them - they don't help much.)

If you have any more questions, feel free to PM me (except for questions on motor efficiency - there are a lot more people on this forum with experience in that area.)

[Lee Reep]

Sounds like you got a great deal on the cast iron extensions, and any other spare parts you deem worth saving is just a bonus. I have an old Craftsman router (mid-70s) that I love because the ergonomics are great, and because it was my first router. It is very well balanced, has the trigger in the grip, and is relatively lightweight. The only real down side was it having only a 1/4" collet. But I use it as a trim router, so that is not a huge issue for me. I have other routers that have 1/2" collet capacity, plunge bases, etc.

I found one similar that was missing a collet a few years ago for $10. I had found the collet on the Sears parts website, but as I recall, it was a little pricey,so I decided to just keep this new find for parts. With brushes, motor armature, and a few other parts being the same, I decided I'd found enough parts to keep my old Craftsman router going forever.

Maybe just chalk up the extra table saw as a source of many spare parts for your other saw.

[Curt Harms]

If $ are an issue and you don't cut a lot of thick material, I'd give some thought to a good quality 7 1/4" blade. I use one on a 3 h.p. Grizz cab saw for cutting ply and thin solid stock. It works well and because the kerf is so thin, it takes little power compared to a 1/8" kerf blade. Home Depot has Freud 40 & 60 tooth 7 1/4" blades for reasonable $.

[Joe Hillmann]

If it was me I would bolt both saws together side by side. They could share on fence, one could be set up with a cross cut blade and the other a rip blade and you would have a nice large surface to support the wood you are cutting.

[cody michael]

If it was me I would bolt both saws together side by side. They could share on fence, one could be set up with a cross cut blade and the other a rip blade and you would have a nice large surface to support the wood you are cutting.


never would have thought of this but its kinda genius

[Michael J Evans]

If it was me I would bolt both saws together side by side. They could share on fence, one could be set up with a cross cut blade and the other a rip blade and you would have a nice large surface to support the wood you are cutting.

i had actually thought about that as i seen a post somewhere where a guy had like 4 of these saws all together...
if i had a bigger work space that would work, but as is sits now with these two bad boys side by side i wouldn't be able to cross my garage.

curt - i wouldve never thought about using a different size blade , i actually have a brand new 71/4 blade. thanks

[Curt Harms]

..................................
curt - i wouldve never thought about using a different size blade , i actually have a brand new 71/4 blade. thanks

You're welcome. I use a Freud 40 tooth I got from Home Depot for thin and shatter/splinter prone solids and also ply. The teeth seem less aggressive or grabby. The rim speed is going to be less than a 10" blade so I may need to reduce the feed rate a little but I'm not a production facility so no big deal there.