Africa Mahogany

[David Nelson1]

Kitchen cabinet project is right around the corner and we settled on A.M. Is this wood particularly hard to work with? Any tips of tricks would be appreciated. It will be used for face frames, doors, drawer fronts, and the primary wood for the island base.

[Jamie Buxton]

More often than other species, flatsawn khaya has built-in stresses so it warps when ripped. I'd insist on quartersawn boards for doors. However, the ribbon striping on quartered khaya looks quite different from flatsawn, so I'd probably choose to make the whole kitchen from quartered.

[Mel Fulks]

Agree entirely with Jamie. Around here the quartered is actually a little cheaper since the flat sawn looks more like what
people are used to seeing in mahogany.

[David Nelson1]

Would it be reasonable to assume that using a 6/4 to get 3/4 would be viable? I don't see QS offered in my area. I guess picking the pile would yield some QS but may not total the need for the entire project.

[Larry Edgerton]

Unfortunately David you are about right from my experience. Like Jatoba it is best to sneak up on final dimensions slowly as each cut seems to have some reaction. I will be looking forward to seeing it when it is done.

Larry

[David Nelson1]

Unfortunately David you are about right from my experience. Like Jatoba it is best to sneak up on final dimensions slowly as each cut seems to have some reaction. I will be looking forward to seeing it when it is done.

Larry

LOL Larry, so will my wife!

[Larry Edgerton]

Don't feel bad David, my shop is 10' from my house and my cabinets are still not done.........

[David Nelson1]

Hmmm Kinda hard to sneak up on raising a panel. The widest door seems like it will be 19" with an exposed portion of the panel being 15". I was planing on re-sawing and doing a book matched raised panels. Seems like I'm going to need 10/4 due to wood movement.

[David Nelson1]

Larry have you posted any pictures? BTW neither is my floor project LOL Once the cabinets are in minus the island I'll get that knocked out.

[William C Rogers]

David, I did my cabinets using AM. I actually bought it from Rockler when it was a wood of the month for $3.25 bf. It was S3S about 7/8 thick. That didn't leave much to flatten, but I didn't have to plane anything, just drum sander. I don't remember much difficultly working with it. I did stay away from the ribboning boards. I got my AM plywood from Northwest Lumber in Indianapolis.
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[David Nelson1]

William,
You got me here " I did stay away from the ribboning boards". Nice looking kitchen. Your frig box, is that AM ply wood?

[William C Rogers]

I think I read somewhere that the ribboning was more prone to tear out. Not sure on that. The frig box, door inserts, and cabinet sides that show are AM plywood. I used prefinished ply on the interiors where I could. I used Zar brand stain 50/50 mix of dark mahogany and rosewood. You can't tell plywood from solid. I did flat panel instead of raised panel with 3" rails and styles. I used the Sommerfield router system and bits. I did buy a new rip blade for my saw.

Edit: I used polyurethane as the finish. First coat was gloss to bring out the grain, followed by satin.

[Dan T Jones]

My experience was a lot of sanding. I was glad to finish and don't think I will repeat using AM. BTW minwax red mahogany gave a nice color.
Dan

[J.R. Rutter]

I would select it carefully and definitely do not assume that you can flatten crooked parts and have it stay flat. I do not offer a warranty on Khaya doors, FWIW.

[David Nelson1]

I would select it carefully and definitely do not assume that you can flatten crooked parts and have it stay flat. I do not offer a warranty on Khaya doors, FWIW.

That sir, is an interesting remark and defiantly bears consideration. If this wood is as risky as it sounds is there a species of mahogany that easier and more predictable to work?

[Peter Quinn]

You can't sneak up on a hyena, and if you do it's still going to be a hyena when you get there. Same for African mahogany ime. Some of it is even grained and down right polite like SA mahogany used to be, some is tension wood (and mostly you can read that tension as the swirling ribbons in both quartered and flat sawn, never a good sign for stability, but sometimes a board that looks good can go crazy too), some is mildly problematic, some verges on unusable. It's all in the same pile and all sells for roughly the same price. It's really up to the user to learn to read the grain, select your boards carefully if purchased locally or spec it carefully from a trusted source, otherwise it's a craps shoot. Second biggest problem after stability has been established is color. It's color is all over the place, you can start by carefully sorting it, and plan to stain it or at least tone it to equalize color, but this is no different from any mahogany type wood, even the genuine article is problematic concerning color. Some around here prefer QS sapele if the slightly darker color is acceptable or desirable because the grain and color tend to be much more consistent and it's slightly more durable, or harder anyway, than most Kayha.

[Mel Fulks]

The real ,by botanical name, mahogany is Swetenia macrphyla commonly called Honderas mahogany. It costs more than what you have now ,but is a lot easier to work. When ever I have compared time spent on mahogany jobs ,the extra time
and waste involved in using AM used up any price advantage over the better stuff. You certainly do not want to buy thicker
AM just to plane more of it off.

[Terry Beadle]

I built two end tables with drawers out of AM. I wouldn't do that again. There were several tricks to getting the tear out controlled and the stripes were an issue.
What I finally got good results with was keeping the plane with a tight mouth and very sharp. 2 thou shavings. The I found the use of a properly set up card scraper
was the best way to finish a roughed in board. I don't like sanding and with the aforementioned process I was able to keep it to a very minimum. The card scraper was
excellent when dealing with the grainy stripes. Both tables turned out very well.

If I had the money and a supplier, I'd use non-African mahogany. I think the North American Cherry would be a better and hugely less amount of work to make the tables.

Take care and enjoy the shavings !

[scott vroom]

Take a look at sapele as an alternative to AM. I've used it on a couple of office desktop slabs and found it very easy to work, and very stable (my local supplier stocks mostly quarter sawn with beautiful ribbon grain). I buy 5/4 skip planed rough for finished 1".

[John Goodin]

I have used it some for outdoor furniture and did not have problems with it warping. However, if you get a ribboned grain it can be tough to plane with out it getting rough. I paid the lumberyard to drum sand it for me and everything work out great.

[scott vroom]

However, if you get a ribboned grain it can be tough to plane with out it getting rough. I paid the lumberyard to drum sand it for me and everything work out great.


John, are you referring to African mahogany?

I've never had tear out issues jointing & planing QS sapele w/spiral cutters.

[Julie Moriarty]

I just finished drawer fronts and doors made from AM and sapele for bathroom cabinets. The panels were sapele, the rest was AM. There's a particular type of AM that has beautiful figure and chatoyance but is a pain to work with. (see my Gnarly Wood thread) You can recognize it by rough cut edges and fuzzing up. It doesn't like edge tools. Stay away from that for rails and stiles.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/bathcab_14_zpsjxezxsxh.jpg

And with some light bouncing off it:
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/bathcab_15_zpsvtwwwckq.jpg

What I did was sand down the existing oak frames to bare wood and dye them with General Finishes ebony dye. Then topped that with Endurovar in satin. On the cabinet ends I used 1/4" mahogany plywood to cover the cheap oak plastic stuff they had. I still have to glue the side panels on and do something about the cabinet bases. FWIW, the AM & sapele are not dyed. That's the natural color after three coats of Endurovar.

[Julie Moriarty]

Take a look at sapele as an alternative to AM. I've used it on a couple of office desktop slabs and found it very easy to work, and very stable (my local supplier stocks mostly quarter sawn with beautiful ribbon grain). I buy 5/4 skip planed rough for finished 1".

You can also get this from sapele (panels sapele, rails & stiles are Honduran mahogany)
http://www.julimorcreations.com/Images/KitCab/Kit_Cab_14.png

[J.R. Rutter]

If you like the flat grain, it is possible to get that in sapele, at least around here. Add me to the list of people who like working with it. It machines nicely and smells great. You need sharp knives for planing the interlocked grain, but it is not as prone to tearout as khaya.

[William C Rogers]

Well working with AM is more difficult than other woods, but it is not a nightmare. The first cabinet doors I'd did was cherry and it was definitely easier to work with than the AM. Not sure if I got a good group of wood or what, but I was able to use it. Now mine was S3S, so I didn't have to plane it. I would also recommend having a drum sander.

[John Goodin]

John, are you referring to African mahogany?

I've never had tear out issues jointing & planing QS sapele w/spiral cutters.

Yes, African mahogany. QS with spiral cutters maybe not or not as much.

[Shawn Pixley]

Like Julie, I used AM on my bathroom cabinet doors. Sharp planes and carefull work. I dyed them and used a varnish over the top.

[Martin Wasner]

Personally, I'd skip it, and use something different. It's a hateful, horrible wood to work with. Unstable, doesn't machine particularly well, wasteful, and over all not that pleasant to work with. It is very pretty, and sands very well though. Definitely have to do quartersawn, flat sawn is a tumor waiting to happen.

[David Masury]

African mahogany works well, you just have to be very selective on the pieces you get... there is a variety of densities etc. within the term african mahogany... if you can select the more dense boards the better the outcome will be...

David

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Perhaps I am a bit late to respond but I just saw this. I use mahogany a lot. It has a very brittle grain because there are no summer/winter variations to the grain. Mortices need to account for this- not too close to the end. Planing requires you to monitor the grain direction. If it feels like it is going to tear out, you may have hit some reverse grain. Try planing the other direction. Also with machine planing direction is important.

Anything you you do on the edge, like planing on the edge or chiseling needs to be carefully done and planing needs to have a backer clamped to keep it from tearing out at the end.

Thegood news is it works really easily with a chisel and leaves a very smooth finish when planed, but it has pores that absorb glue really well. Clamp it tight and get a nice thin glue line, especially with epoxy. Epoxy seeps in the grain and you can clamp it as tight as you like with mahogany. This goes against normal practice (normally you don't clamp epoxy too tight) but with mahogany I do it all the time and get almost invisible glue lines.

It is gorgeous stuff and despite the care needed with grain it is a joy to work with. It is great for round objects due to the smooth end grain.