Need a router finally

[James Nugnes]

While I have avoided it for a lifetime (to this point) i do have to buy a router.

I have specific need for one and it will round out my handheld power tool lineup. I don't have a great jigsaw but it is is adequate giving the number of times I actually use a jigsaw. It works OK; Not better than OK but it does the jobs I have for a jigsaw and most importantly appears to do them safely....an important element I think when discussing a tool that one is not using often.

I envision the router as a tool that one might want to be a bit more cautious about. I could be totally wrong but of those two tools, jigsaw or router, I would have more willingness to spend for better quality on the router than on the jigsaw.

The contestants seem to be the Bosch plunge and fixed base kit router, the Porter Cable and the Festool. About the only negative comment I have seen on the Bosch has to do with its adaptability to the Porter Cable lift I think. But then others comment that a $10 part gets you past that if it is a concern for you.

Just going by what information I can pick up. I think I would lean toward the Bosch mainly because it is so much more economical than the Festool....not much more than the Porter Cable while getting really quite good support from users and reviewers alike. However I guess if I came away from sorting these things feeling like the difference in the Festool and the Bosch was worth every penny of the Festool's expense well then I would probably bite the bullet and buy the Festool as I don't want to muck this particular purchase up if I can help it. But By Gosh that Bosch kit can be had so economically now that it is hard to walk away from it if in the market for a router.

Fortunately, my impression is that there a users familiar the router offerings from both Festool and Bosch but please anybody that has even an opinion should feel free to comment.

Thanks

[Matt Krusen]

I have heard great things about the Bosch routers but have not used them myself. I have both the Festool OF1400 and OF1010. Amazing tools. I had been using the Dewalt 618 for years. There's just no comparison. As with most of the Festool lineup, their tools are just levels above everything else. If you got the Festool, you wouldn't regret it. That being said, they're expensive. We all know that. I think the Bosch is by far the best option at that price range. If you go with the Bosch, I think you'll be happy. Its still a quality tool. Both are good options. Comes down to how much you want to spend. Good luck!

[pat warner]

Do yourself a favor; start with a DW 621.

[Marc Seguin]

I have the Bosch 1617 combo kit. It's a great router. I mostly prefer to use hand tools, so the purchase of a router was with much hesitation. However I needed to put bead and cove on over 2000 feet of cedar strips, so it was a case of necessity as you seem to be in. It's a great tool, but it's noisy and messy. I don't enjoy using it like I do my hand tools. But for certain tasks it is undoubtedly the right tool for the job.

For me spending the money on a Festool wouldn't be worth it at all. I firmly believe in buying quality tools, but if the tool is going to live in a box 90% of the time than it's not a wise investment to get the top of the line. The Bosch is a quality unit, but at less than half the price of the Festool I can consider having spent that extra $400 on a low angle jack plane that I truly love using and almost never gets put away because it's always sitting on the bench. When I do need to do a router job, I'm still happy that I have a good tool.

I guess I'm saying that if you're going to be using the router a lot, than maybe buying the Festool will be worth it to you. If you're going to use the router sparingly than the Bosch is not at all a bad choice, and you can spend some money on other tools.

[Kent A Bathurst]

"I have specific need.........."

It might help to know what that is.

[Brian Henderson]

Do yourself a favor; start with a DW 621.

The first router I ever bought myself was a DW 625, a big beast of a machine that I still have and has never failed me. It all depends on what you need it for, of course, some people need less power and less weight. Me, I needed power.

[Bill Huber]

I have 2 Bosch 1617EVSs and really like them, they are balanced well for me and I have never really need more power for what I use them for.
I had one in my router table for 3 years and it worked just fine.

The only negative is the Bosch bushings, they are just not very easy to use so I got the adapter and use the PC bushing with no problems. You can get the adapter on Amazon for like $6.

[Ray Newman]

Take a culture trip and visit several woodworking supply stores. Nothing beats a hands-on to determine how the router feels in your hands and if it ergonomically fits your hands.

[Keith Weber]

The Bosch kit is a great little router package. I used mine both on the plunge base and in a router table for about 10 years until I wanted a router lift and a little more power in the table, so I went with a Mast-R-Lift II lift and got a dedicated PC router for it (7518), which is an amazing setup. The Bosch is now a dedicated handheld router. The plunge base is great. The Bosch template guides leave a little (lot?) to be desired. I ended up buying a Wood River brass template guide set and made my own Lexan base for the router (although, you can buy universal ones). I'm very happy with this setup.

307603

[Rich Engelhardt]

Do yourself a favor; start with a DW 621.

Google Pat Warner then go to his web site to see why he says to start with a DW 621.

Pat probably forgot more about routers in the last hour than the whole collective of SMC knows about them!
The only real piece of advice I can give you is to make plenty of room for routers.
Once you start down that road, you find out real quick all the neat stuff you can do with one & how there isn't really a "do it all" style.

[scott spencer]

I would add Milwaukee to my list to consider. Nicely made, stout motors, excellent plunge base, accept standard bushing accessories. If it's going to be hand held, go pick up a few and find out which feels best to you.

[glenn bradley]

Like Scott I caught a Milwaukee router years ago and now, with the exception of my little Bosch Colt, they are all I have. The one in my table has been flawless for 8 years. The 5615's and 5616's can interchange motors with bases for a lot of versatility. The rubber grip/strap handle make hand routing very controllable. The arbor opening is also really deep so that "bottoming out" a router bit is almost impossible.

Pat Warner is on base (no surprise) in that if you will only have one, get a plunge. I have a few plunge and fixed bases for the Milwaukee's setup for different functions, I just load up the motor power that I need for a given job. Above all, the router you choose has to feel good in your hands. If the one that wins all the accolades feels tippy or awkward to you, its not the "best" for you.

I prefer two wrench collets as early on I had enough spindle-lock trouble to last me. I also like the motor to slide out of the base without a lot of twisting, turning, aligning the arrows on the body and all that. Height adjustment, depth stops and dust collection should work well without a lot of fussy effort.

[Jim Dwight]

I would buy a Bosch or Porter Cable combo kit to start with. I have an old Ryobi R-500 which I pulled the motor from and put on a home made lift in my router table. For hand held work I used one of my two PC 690s in one of the four bases I have for them (one plunge, two fixed, one D handle) and a Bosch Colt. The Ryobi is 13.3 amps, so a little short of the biggest routers but works fine. I use one of the PCs in a router table some (one on the extension table of my table saw) and it works fine but you have to go a little slower. The little Colt is my favorite for things within it's capability but a 1.4 inch collet and small motor make the PC better for lots of stuff.

You can really do everything you need to do with a router with a combo kit. It's just that a bigger and smaller router is handy for some things. I think it is definitely the way to start - and potentially finish.

I am still not drinking the green cool aide and I don't plan to. I'm sure their tools are nice and if I did this for a living maybe they would be worthwhile. But at twice the price, I'd rather have more good tools or more money for materials. I also strongly object to metric scales on tools (although I've read that their tracksaw has a replacement scale in real dimensions available).

[lowell holmes]

I followed Pat's advice and bought a DE-621 several years back and Absolutely never regretted it.

My second choice would be a Bosch.

I wouldn't buy one of the other brands you mentioned because I have lost all faith in their line.

[Jim Becker]

I love my Festool routers (OF1010 and OF1400), yet I'm also glad I have my Dewalt DW618 kit. While I don't have experience with the Bosch, they are generally well regarded. 95% of the time I use my Festool routers for hand-held work, but I prefer the fixed bases from the other "kit" for things like dovetailing on a jig.

[Robert Wiese]

I highly recommend Porter Cable Routers.. I have Bosch: Milwaukee: Makita and Dewalt routers over that past 18yrs and Porter Cable (2.25 and 3.25HP models) have been my work horse (go to) routers; never a problem.. My Bosch is highly prone to dust collecting in and about the on-off switch and I can't turn it on - have had to clean it twice and now again (over the past 10 years).. My Milwaukee (2.25HP) is also a work horse but not as accurate to adjust as my PC.. My Makita (2.25HP) is mainly a dedicated D-Handle. The adjustment is only course but a very nice soft-start and powerful motor. My Dewalt, also a dedicated D-Handle, seems to slow down during normal to slightly aggressive cuts - least favorite..

[Morey St. Denis]

Perhaps you may also wish to consider the newer Bosch MR23 model at 2.3 HP. Their most recent model features bright LED illumination of the cutting area, Soft-Start technology along with Electronic "Constant Response" automatic speed control and precise Go / No-Go Trigger power control; and Get This - It's within the ergonomically contoured soft-grip handle!.. Especially helpful for both the novice or experienced user as you get to keep both hands securely on the router instead of one-handing your crucial starts to enable fumbling for a more conventional start rocker or slide power switch. As a fixed base and plunge combination router kit it goes as the MRC23EVSK. Fair pricing at present for the newest Bosch combination kit looks to be around $250. My stable already includes an early Porter Cable, both DeWalts 618 (with a D handle & trigger base), compact DWP611, and Ridgid w/LED, all good machines; yet I'll likely also be getting the MRC23 just to enjoy that ergonomic trigger handle control when hand routing and to accompany my Swiss-built Bosch 1591 & JS572EBL jigsaws at this newer promotional price!

[Marty Tippin]

I've got the Bosch 1617EVS kit combined with a set of precison sub-bases from Pat Warner http://patwarner.com/precision_subbase_kit.html and couldn't be happier. I don't use the router often, but when I do, it meets all my needs perfectly. For the money, I don't know how you could go wrong. Check the reviews on Amazon if you need more convincing http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1617EVSPK-4-Horsepower-Variable-Collets/dp/B00005RHPD/ref=sr_1_1

The only thing I don't like is that, as others have said, the collet is a bit of a pain to deal with, requiring two different size wrenches - and it's even more obnoxious if you have the router mounted in a table (there are special offset wrenches available from Woodcraft and elsewhere that ease the pain a bit).

[James Nugnes]

What is up with this web site. I wrote a nice response hoping to answer the questions people have and it dumped it because my "cookie had expired". Give me a break.

Anyway, the chance of me getting "hooked" on routers is none and none. I am a woodcarver sort of an Ian Norbury school woodcarver and most of what I do in wood is designed to get me back to woodcarving ASAP. A woodcarver's best friend in power is a good bandsaw. Does not have to be a bandsaw biased to veneer resawing (the killer app of all bandsaw discussion) as I do no veneer resawing. However it must be a solid machine capable of being adjusted to dead on accuracy and of course as is the case with all woodworking tools, must be well maintained. Unfortunately I have had to adjust everything on my most recent bandsaw purchase including some things that the suppliers don't intend being adjusted in the field. But I had no choice. A shame really as the components on this bandsaw are fine, good materials etc. The poor thing just fell victim to some shoddy factory assembly work. But I did get it straightened out eventually.

The actual project as asked by a member is a Thien Top Hat Dust Separator lid with bellmouth. Mentioned my bandsaw because it is mainly bandsaw use that creates much of the dust I create in woodworking. Going to build the best top hat I can build. If you are familiar with the Thien top hat, there are a couple of router jobs tucked away in there, jobs you don't absolutely have to have a router for expect for one but jobs best done with a router. I will probably be routing in MDF for the Thien. But clearly after this project is completed, I will have a router that I will mainly be using in wood when I use it again.

A decent router kit would sort of round out my handheld power tool line up. Most everything I have is corded as I prefer it to battery operated except for tools that inherently get used in tight quarters. My jigsaw is only a Ridgid from HD (I think the model is 3230) but it is more a testament to how seldom I use a jigsaw than anything else. I could wish it to be a better jigsaw but I really don't know I would other than just to have something better. Aa I mentioned earlier though, I think I need to be a bit more thoughtful about this router purchase.

The Porter Cables routers are very nice. Looked at the Dewalts both the 621 Pat mentioned and the 625. Those also seem to be fine tools. Don't know why they made the base so short but Pat's company has a solution for that in his sub-bases.

The MRC23EVSK is a good recommendation Morey...thank you for that. I had not been thinking about them although as Morey says there is a plunge and fixed base kit built around the 23 as well. Tough to find inventory...either too new or people are scoffing them up...not sure which one it is.

Do folks know if the MRC23 series would also push you to the adapter to get to the PC bushing kits? Not a big deal but I would just prefer to know so that I knew to get the adapter if I get the MRC23 kit. Seems the issue of getting away from the Bosch bushings is fairly universal for the earlier Bosch routers. It is not a big deal but I just would want to know I need the adapter for the "23" kit if that is the case. As luck would have it, the Internet search claims that my local HD has this Bosch kit in stock if I do go down this road.

Whatever router kit or router that can be modified to be both plunge and fixed I buy, I am going to run into a fairly big expense in accessories and bits as I am starting from scratch with this router. That would seem to put the Festy out of contention on price alone. However if somebody would just give me their Festy I would be dancing in the streets. I won't be holding my breadth on that one!

An update...the MR23 might just be out of the running. Bad reviews on the plunge base. To many complaints over the very same issue for my liking. Somehow Bosch seems to have missed the boat badly on that one. Maybe the other Bosch kit would be OK though. No LED lighting on that version though.

[Matt Krusen]

Just saw the Bosch 1617 is on sale as at HD and Menards as well.

[lowell holmes]

The reason I like my DW-621 are the following features:

1. soft start
2. variable speed
3. good saw dust extraction
4. Good guide connection
5. adequate horsepower, recently in a door building project it swung a massive 1/2" rebate bit easily. It was not at all scary.
6. Good depth setting mechanism
7. Comfortable on/off switch

The list goes on.

[James Nugnes]

Yea I think the more I look at the add on's Pat has for the 621 and the 625, the more I am swinging that way.

Your comment about the power of the 621 interests me. I hate being underpowered and have found that in most things mechanical, cars, tools you name it, being underpowered is far more dangerous than having a bit more power than you need available to you. While the 625 is clearly heftier, I was leaning that way but only with Pat's add ons, the subbase for regular plunging and the offset subbase for using either the 621 or the 625 for fixed base handheld use. Maybe the 621 has enough grunt after all. Still left with the problem that any plunger has when used where a fixed base handheld is meant to be but holding its depth settings over a good deal of work. I would not try doing 50 panels that way even with Pat's add ons as they don't solve the problem of the plunger holding its depth setting like a fixed base will. If I can't get myself past that, I am probably back to the Bosch 1617 kit having found too many detractors on the Bosch 23 kit.

[Kent A Bathurst]

........ I hate being underpowered and have found that in most things mechanical, cars, tools you name it, being underpowered is far more dangerous than having a bit more power than you need available to you.

Then - why not The Big Dog - PC 75xx? Power to spare.................

[Jim Dwight]

Power to spare isn't necessarily a great idea with a router for hand held use. The problems are weight and control. Soft start helps with control but a 15A router is heavy and not so easy to control, especially with one hand. 15A routers are best for a router table. For hand-held or all around use, the mid sized routers are indicated. You may have to make an additional pass sometimes but they will get the job done.

The fact that people are so fond of several different brands is a pretty good indication that there are several pretty good choices. My PC690s are not the latest-and-greatest but I have no desire to "up-grade". If it will not be used a lot, I would look at the ones people are recommending and see which has the best price. But if you want the "best" I would get the Bosch. I've never used one but I've seen a lot of reviews stating it is the best mid sized. If it is better than my PCs, it is plenty good enough.

[James Nugnes]

Jim if I had to guess the Bosch 1617 kit is a bit dated (no LED's) but is in all respects a very good kit. Good plunge, good fixed base....lousy bushings but an easy way to get to the PC bushings with a low cost adapter.....problem solved. I don't know why Bosch has not addressed the stability problem with the 23 plunge base as there are so many complaints about exactly the same thing apparently with the same issue at the heart of it. That would drive me right up the wall.

I could be wrong on this but I think the "Big Dog" only comes one way.....probably because it is such a big dog.

I can get the Bosch 1617 kit pretty inexpensively right now. So I am leaning either that way or to either a DW621 or 625. The fact that the Dewalts have the best plunge capability of all routers from all makers is pretty darned impressive. Pat's subbases make it likely that you can do both plunge and handheld fixed base with them safely. But I don't know that they are any better than any other plunge router at holding their depth settings when you have a bunch of work for them that should rightly be done by a fixed base model.

[Fidel Fernandez]

I am with you. I tried to use my Stanley 55 and my 71. I hate the sound of router and It is easy to make mistakes.
This is just me and it doesn't apply to anyone (I think). The reason is your vision is obstructed with a router and it is easy to make mistakes. I see it as a black box, you have to commit, plunge the router and hope for the best. When it is done, it is too late to correct
I understand that there is a time to use them, when you have so much to do.
If you don't need a lot of power then a small router will do it. I have festool routers so I can tell you the limitations. The OF1010 is a great router, it is great because is small and you handle it with ease. the problem is small and it is hard to change routers bit if you have big hands. If you use a router template guide it will obstruct all your vision. Festool routers tend to rust the plunge system, you have to keep it lubricate to avoid that. It is expensive, but it is great.

The 1400 is not my favorite by any means.

I had a few dewalts , but not the DW 621. The ones I had didn't last, the quality is not there. I think the DW 621 is in a different category so I cannot give you any comment.

[lowell holmes]

The Bosch may be the best choice for you. It certainly will do the job.

On the DW 721, I've never had the depth setting to slip or change during an operation.

[Jim Dwight]

The plunge base for my PC690 works fine too. I'm not sure what reviewers have commented negatively about on other routers. There is a rod and a turret stop that controls plunge depth. You tighten a fairly small knob to lock the setting of the rod. I guess that could slip but mine hasn't. Once you get to the desired depth, you release a lever that locks the router at that elevation. Again it could slip but mine hasn't. If you just wanted to route the edge of a board the fixed base might be better mainly because your hands would be lower. But if you just plunged the plunge mechanism and locked the position, it should route the edge just fine. Fixed bases can slip too but if mine is adjusted right, it doesn't slip. Collets are more prone to slipping but the 1/2 collet of my PCs hasn't to my knowledge slipped. My little Colt with it's 1/4 collet has slipped but not the PCs. I was probably pushing the Colt too hard. Trying to make it do work the PC would have been better suited to.