Balboa House Doors

[Mark Singer]

Well about 300 BF of 8/4 rough Hondo. Mohagany arrived yesterday. i placed the order by phone and specified min. width, length and rough not surfaced and I told my salesman it was for doors.. The material is consistent and does not really need to be hand selected. Never order surfaced lumber for doors ...it is not flat enough. This should produce about 11 - 8ft dors of varing widths. I will first select the linear grain for the stiles leaving the figured material foor rails. This is for stability and not warpinng..

I will try to document the construction as it continues in this thread.

[Roy Wall]

Mark,

Are those boards sized such that you can make one door per board-- is this how you're doing it???

[Brad Hammond]

very cool mark! can you tell us who you ordered from? i'm about to order about 400bf of qs red oak myself for cabinets and doors for our house.
i'm interested in your progress, i plan on building my pocket doors out of hondo mahogony as well.
looking foward to it!

[Mark Singer]

These were bought from Weber Plywood in Tustin. It is a very large disttributer and mahogony is rare these days.... I ordered min 10" wide to get 2 stiles per board at 4 1/2" net after jointing.This will allow for German FSB mortise locks. Hinges will be 4x4 butt hinges. Net door thickness should be a stong 1 3/4". They are not straight lined. Then I ordered 3 more for bottom rails at about 10" wide. The head rail is the same as the stiles ...4 1/2. I will plane a small area and spay it with water to select out the figured boards for the bottom. If the twist a little it has little effect on te door since they are 2' long approx. They will not get ripped in half as the stiles and head rail. Price was $5.75 plus $15 for shipping to the door. I will make the jambs also....they were out of 4/4 right now.

Here is FSB website....some of the finest hardware available..
http://www.fsbusa.com/

The Front entry will be special with true divided light panels in a long horizontal pattern . all the others are interior doors.

[Jim Becker]

I'm really looking forward to this pictorial, Mark, as I someday would like to make replacement entry doors for the "old" portion of our house. The current ones were custom made for the previous owner, but without regard to wood movement and so forth. Both have cracks that I've had to deal with to eliminate air infiltration.

[Mark Singer]

Jim,
Looks like you really have an eye on what I'm doing:rolleyes:

Most of the doors are single lite French doors. This is a simple door ,but , serves as a very good example of door making. Wood panels, multiple lites , carving are all options that can be added. The main entry door in this home will be a bit more involved and will shoe the sloped sills and waterproofing / flashing details that are important to the weather side.
I will also show making the jambs,hanging the doorsand hardware installation...
The entry will have a rabetted jamb detail.

I'm really looking forward to this pictorial, Mark, as I someday would like to make replacement entry doors for the "old" portion of our house. The current ones were custom made for the previous owner, but without regard to wood movement and so forth. Both have cracks that I've had to deal with to eliminate air infiltration.

[Chris Padilla]

Should be awesome, Mark! Do you want a free apprentice? I only work for pizza slathered in thinly handplaned shavings of Mohagany and I'll be happy to serve you up some as often as you like!! ;)

[Mark Singer]

Yesterday I worked about 3 hours.....just enough to remind myself how pyhsically strenuous this work is! The last time I made this many large doors was 5 years ago! I am working with 18 rough 8/4 boards about 9' to 10' long and 11" wide.
If you are builing 0ne door it is much easier....you would only have 1 1/2 boards.

Tips:
1. Sort all boards and select out the least straight ones and label them "Rails".
The rails get cut up into short lenghts and the warp has little effect.

2. Cut the bottom rail to 9/1/2" This way if you decide it shoud be a top rail you can split it with no waste.

3. The Festool 55 saw is too shallow to straight line an edge. it leaves a 1/4" even at full depth that must be planed off. I may straight line with a router today, using a large bit.

4.You don't need to face joint the rails to straighten....if they are really bad a jack plane and winding sticks will get them close then run them through the planer.

All bottom rails are cut and planned....Next I will cut stiles and select out the top rail once they are face jointed and planed. I want the staightest and most stable boards for stiles....this is what determinnes the flatness of the door

[Mark Singer]

I used a long aluminium storefront section held with one screw at the tail . This works well on the tablesaw to straight line the rough boards. Use a Rip blade 24 tooth to rough out the stock a WW II is too nice at this point. All the boards are stacked ready to face joint...This breaking down is the hardest physical part. I also had to unload an overfilled Onieda canister....ooooh that was fun!:confused:

So bottom rails are cut and planed stiles are cut. Among my stile selection I found a "banana" and re labeled it "rail"... This is why the order that you follow is critical. Had I cut my top rails...I would have $100 waste already!

[Steve Clardy]

Are you ripping your stiles a little oversize, in case they bow when ripping?
Steve

[John Miliunas]

Great progress, Mark! Yeah, I'll bet there's some sweat involved with processing so much of that large stock! :) Looks like you've got a good handle on it, though. I'm carefully watching this one, as interior doors are on the far horizon for me, as well! Thanks much for tutorial. Nothing like learning from the best!:) :cool:

[Mark Singer]

Steve,

On the rough cut I'm 1/4" over then joint , then drum sand on edge...
A good tip is to vary the stile width to the door dimension, The M Br is a 3'-6" door and the stile will net 5"...it just looks better.

Are you ripping your stiles a little oversize, in case they bow when ripping?
Steve

[Mark Singer]

Ryan stopped by for a couple of hours and that really got things moving . We planned all the material to thickness.

Tip: You can not make your final rip cuts until the lumber the faces have been surfaced on the planner. They are not even parrallel until that time so you need to rough rip over and then final rip and joint after planning....that is true of any rough lumber prep ....doors or anything. The rough wood doesn't bed well to the table or fence

I dumped my large Onieda canister 3 times today!!!!

[Jerry Clark]

Thanks for sharing and documenting the progress- This is interesting!:D

[Doug Jones from Oregon]

Mark...interesting process.

I noticed the Grip Tites on the fence of the shaper. Are you using these on the outfeed side to insure constant pressure at that end of the board?

Doug

[Chris Padilla]

Sweet stuff, Mark! I look forward to the day when I can dump a couple canisters of shavings from my DC!! :D (I'm working on installing the DC right now....)

[Mark Singer]

Doug,

It helps when your working by yourself.... I sight down the edge of the board....convex side goes up ....and flatten one face. If you get 90 percent smoth your there. It should be planned a little all the way down on the face. The DJ 20 has a long infeed table, but the boards are long and heavy..


Mark...interesting process.

I noticed the Grip Tites on the fence of the shaper. Are you using these on the outfeed side to insure constant pressure at that end of the board?

Doug

[Mark Singer]

I thought of another important planning tip and I know many SMC guys know a lot of these pointers...but somebody might want to try some of these. Use a lumber crayon and mark the board with an arrow as it leaves the planner....if you like the cut keep the arrow directed as the board moved through, if there was tear out try the arrow the other way. Now you should be able to read the grain and know...but when it switches in the middle only the previous result can really tell the story.

When you flip it it is usually the same direction...not what you would expect....but it is usually the case.

Of course the last pass will bring all the pieces to the same thickness...this is critical...my mortising jig will reference off one face and I want it all flush.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Wow...that is beautiful lumber Mark and a great tutorial on making doors so far. I can't wait to see the rest of the process...

[Kent Parker]

Mark,

Thanks for taking the time to photo and document your project. Great Stuff!! I always find it hard to stop the "flow" of work to photograph it however with the weight your lugging around I'm sure I'd find the time to "rest";)

By chance have you measured the moisture content in the planks you are using? Just curious.
There have been times during some of projects I've made that I covered the wood with a tarp when I left the shop at the end of the day to minimize moisture absorpsion during the night.

Cheers,

KP

[Mark Singer]

Today I jointed all the edges...and transfered the numbers to the faces. It is really important to make each door from the same board...at least the stiles. That way they match and it looks cohesive. Then I hand planed about 18" from each end of the stiles. This removes any snipe which would cause gaps between stie and rail. A card scraper is great for removing jointer machine marks...the grain changes more on an edge than on a face and wit a scraper you can push or pull to remove marks tearout etc, I stuck some new paper in my drum sander and would have sanded the edges if my board were a foot long...they are not and a drum sander will deform the board close to the end...especially long boards. I always reinforce the sand paper with duct tape where it enters the clip on the drum sander

[Richard Wolf]

Mark,

I always find it hard to stop the "flow" of work to photograph it however with the weight your lugging around I'm sure I'd find the time to "rest";)

KP

Nice work Mark.
I for one, never think of you as fat!!!

Richard

P.S. Happy Birthday.

[Mike Cutler]

Those are going to be some stunning doors Mark. The clearness of that grain is going to really be something when they are finished.
It's nice to see the hand tools being utilized. I know from experience that doors require a lot more handwork than someone might think.

To switch the subject just slightly though. I also have been building a library door, and everything is coming along fine. Hopefully I'll be done by the end of the week, but I'm not the fastest guy in town, anyway, while I was researching door building on the net, trying to find books, I was stunned at the lack of practical information on door construction. I mean I couldn't find anything on the actual building, ie. prefered joints, construction methods, best wood for doors, etc..etc... Do you know of any books, still in print that address this issue? I'll tell you that there is hole in the woodworking field that someone should think about writing a book on here.

Most of my info I got off of the forums. I have some of your posts on the subject, CJ Hebert has a nice write up, and David Marks has a little bit on a 6 panel door. The door I am building is a solid framed door with an Antique Arts and Crafts stained glass center panel, so these posts were helpful but not real specific to my needs, ergo when I saw your upcoming project list I was pretty psyched. If I lived any closer I'd come shoot the photos for you during this project, heck, I'd even bring the pizza.;)

[Mark Singer]

This must be a new idea to some since so many woodworking books show mortising using a template guide and a template with a slot.

If you think about it an up cut spiral is designed to eject the chips through the opening at the top. With the template guide or bushing and the template it is as if there were a roof keeping the chips in the mortise and forcing the bit to try to cut the mortise with the debris in the way...If you only need to make a few its ok....just keep an air hose near buy to blow out chips after each pass..

The better way!

If you design the jigs to justify off the stile and rail and instal a double fence on the bottom of the router thing are much easier and the mortise are more precise.

One jig can be use for the double mortises and by sliding the spacer back and forth you can get them both routed with one jig and one setting.
Move the slide piece to the stile jig and it will also make both.
The smaller top rail is done with the same jigs and spacing only using one slot and the spacer....blocks in the jigs justy off style and rail

Either make sure the fences are centered on the bit or mark them "Face" and pay attention to the "face" side

[Jim Becker]

Very good point, Mark. I build a similar jig when I did the loose tenon joinery on the table base in our kitchen as it both provided more surface area for the router to ride on and the ablity for chips to "go away" as needed.

[Mark Singer]

The joinery are loose tenons....one jig is for stiles and yhe other for rails. The bottom rail is 9 1/2" and has 2 tenons. Each is 9/16" thick 2 3/4 " WIDE AND 4 3/4" long. The top and bottom rails were cut on the sled on the tablesaw. The stiles were cut on a sliding miter saw. The top rails are 4 5/8" and have one tenon. Since the doors are interior I used TightBond 3 . Considering how many doors I am making ....I am pleased with the progress. I have about 20 hours in it right now. All the material is cut and ready to mortise. The material is matched in door sets. One door is already assembled and glued and is drying. I wish i had several benches to glue up....well little by little.

[Jim Becker]

Are these going to be "glass filled" or have wooden panels, Mark?

[Chris Padilla]

Mark, will your loose tenons also be mahagony? Any fancy ebony pegs or the like? ;)

[Mark Singer]

Opaque inter layer glass...same as mine in my home.
Are these going to be "glass filled" or have wooden panels, Mark?

[Mark Singer]

No they are just Mahogany and the tenons are also mahogany.....grain running in the direction of the tenon for strength...no pegs or fancy stuff...
Mark, will your loose tenons also be mahagony? Any fancy ebony pegs or the like? ;)

[Keith Christopher]

Nice thing about loose tenons, as long as your cross cuts are square you don't have to worry about making them non-square when cutting intergral tenons. over cut, or under cut then pare away too much stock and shoulders can get out of square quick. As always lookin good Mark.

[Aaron Montgomery]

Mark - I always enjoy following your projects and this one is no different. Looking good!

[Mark Singer]

I have now glued up 2 doors and the mortises are clean and the tenons fit just right. One size tenon fits everywhere which keeps things simple. I always do a dry fit before glue just to make sure. I fine tuned the jigs and added sandpaper to the inside face too insure nothing moves.

[John Miliunas]

Sweet!:) OK, you used the same material for the tenons, but could one use different material with the same success? I'm thinking in terms of running a bunch off at once and then having some "in stock" for projects as they come up. Also, I note you're using TB III to glue up the assembly. I believe I recall David Marks being real big on the plastic resin glues. Is there an advantage to either? Regardles, you're cookin' right along and they look fantastic! Thanks ever so much for yet another great tutorial!:) :cool:

[Mark Singer]

The plastic resin like is great stuff. I have never had a problem using TightBond. For exterior either WestSystems or at least TightBond 3.

For tenons any strong wood will work. Paduck is great Maple is also excellent. The grain must run in the direction of the tenon. The most important thing is the fit should be consistent and snug. The jigs that use a template guide tend to enlarge with multiple use....that is the real beauty of this jig...it stays the same and you save time since all the tenons remain consistent. This is probably the most important thing...


Sweet!:) OK, you used the same material for the tenons, but could one use different material with the same success? I'm thinking in terms of running a bunch off at once and then having some "in stock" for projects as they come up. Also, I note you're using TB III to glue up the assembly. I believe I recall David Marks being real big on the plastic resin glues. Is there an advantage to either? Regardles, you're cookin' right along and they look fantastic! Thanks ever so much for yet another great tutorial!:) :cool:

[Mark Singer]

Yesterday ,I had some family get together and the concert in the park so I didn't get too much done. 3 doors are glued and dry. Here is a tip: as you glue one up....mortise the next and that saves time. After the mortising is complete slide the door and clamps to the floor....it is heavy! Now the lay up table is free fot the next one. Mortising is about 20 minutes per door and glue up is about 40 minutes so it takes about 1 hour per door once the material is prepared.....Which is really quite good. There is still a lot to come....rabetting for the glass, stops, sanding, ...Designing the jamb without casings and hanging the doors..

[Chris Padilla]

...Designing the jamb without casings and hanging the doors..

Looking forward to those two! :)

[Mark Singer]

Chris,

Here is the jamb detail ..."MIL-Core jamb"


Looking forward to those two! :)

[Mike Vermeil]

Mark,

Why not just terminate the drywall at the edge of the studs, and have the end of the corner bead sandwitched between the stud and the jamb? Seems easier & would leave more of the jamb edge exposed - assuming you want more jamb exposed I guess. I really like the caseless look, but wonder if only 3/8" of jamb will look too flimsy?

Also, are you planning on making each jamb custom to fit the framed opening?

[Jim Becker]

I happen to like the smaller shadow line that Mark gets with this minimal (3/8") exposure of the jamb and his method also locks things together quite nicely.

[Mark Singer]

The gap between the trimmer and jamb is not a consistent slot to capture the Milcore since the trimmer is a rough piece of framing lumber...wedged and nailed off it is not a clean surface. The saw kerf made with a very fine blade captures the milcore which is then caulked. I can move the location of the kerf to expose more jamb...This is a pretty typical detail. There is another which uses a "shadow metal" reveal to expose the full jamb...I will post pics of each detail from my own home soon...Iam trying to get one door built today
Mark,

Why not just terminate the drywall at the edge of the studs, and have the end of the corner bead sandwitched between the stud and the jamb? Seems easier & would leave more of the jamb edge exposed - assuming you want more jamb exposed I guess. I really like the caseless look, but wonder if only 3/8" of jamb will look too flimsy?

Also, are you planning on making each jamb custom to fit the framed opening?

[Mike Vermeil]

The gap between the trimmer and jamb is not a consistent slot to capture the Milcore since the trimmer is a rough piece of framing lumber...wedged and nailed off it is not a clean surface.

That makes sense Mark. Can't wait to see the finished product. There's a home model out here with caseless doors by a large builder (but with more of a southwest motif) & for tract homes they look pretty sharp.

[Silas Smith]

I'm really enjoying this tutorial. I had better be careful though, next thing I'll be doing is volunteering to build a new front door for our house. Please keep up the pics as I have never done a door before and I think it is facinating.

[Mark Singer]

Well I just glued up #4!

Here are some pics that show similar doors and jamb conditions in my home. There are some real big doors here...10' high and from 2'-8" to 4'-0" wide. One jamb is cut from one piece for a pocket door and the grain matches . Some interface stone, gyp, wood, concrete block,Venitian plaster ...etc. These are similar to the ones I am making now. i think there is elegance in the simplicity..

[Mark Singer]

a few more....

[Matthew Springer]

Those look awesome! I may have to go out and buy some tools!

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Man these doors sure are looking great!! Can't wait to see them finished :)

[Mark Singer]

Jeff,
The last pics are off my own doors in my home . I built those about 5 years ago. The pics show the basic design and jamb andd head details..I am still in just the glue up mode with 4 doors already glued up.

[Andrew Ault]

Mark,

Thank-you for taking the time and effort to post the process of making these doors. I'm learning a lot. I really appreciate the drawings and photographs.

-Andy

[Mark Singer]

I am sorry for the long lags between phases of door construction. I had a dinner party last night and very busy during the days. Because I am making 11 doors in this phase and working on all of them one task at a time....it is dragging a bit.

I will try to show the rabbeting of door for the glass on one door to keep the interest going...I greatly appreciate the strong support this thread has received ...even if you are not building doors, there is a lot of good info on preparing stock and designing jigs that can be used on other projects.

It is interesting that all the work has been done will basic machines ...no slot mortisers or European rip or sliding saws. Tablesaw, Router, bandsaw, jointer. planner...just the normal stuff. I have many friends that make doors for a living and have all the fancy machines....the end product is about the same...if anything mine may be a little nicer...more attention is payed to matching stiles and rails and flattening that really makes for a trouble free door.
Thanks Again and I will keep going....

[Don Baer]

Mark,
We totaly understand that you do have other commitments so don't appologise. I for one am finding this a most facinating thread and am following your progress and learning along the way. I agree about using basic machines and that one of the aspects that I find so facinating about the thread.

Thanks for taking the time and sharing your progress with us.

[Mark Singer]

Thanks for hanging in there... Well I routed the rabbet on one door. I used a rabbeting bit with a pilot bearing and made about 5 passes to reach the center of the door thickness. Any glue or slight offsets should be scrapped or sanded flush prior to routing so the router base has a consistent surface. Your first pass should be a light one and if there is tear out pay attention.....you can climb cut and lower the speed to eliminate it.. The Festool router only has 3 depth posts and there really should be more to quickly adjust for passes.

The corners are then chiseled square and the top edge is the most important since it aligns with the glass stop. The stop should not be mitered ....instead run the stiles full length first and then the rails...this will make the stop almost disappear since it is continuous with the grain of the stile.

So I could actually measure and order glass....I will wait and get it all at once.

[Mike Vermeil]

Mark,

Doors are looking good. Gotta luv that mohagany! I noticed that you're not using the dust collection on the Festool router. I've been thinking about investing in a Festool router in part because of the good things I've heard about the dust collection, and so am wondering why you're not using it. Do you find it cumbersome?

Thanks,
Mike

[Jim Becker]

I've been thinking about investing in a Festool router in part because of the good things I've heard about the dust collection, and so am wondering why you're not using it.

I was going to ask the same question...especially with mahogany which spews forth a lot of nasty fine dust when milling!! ;) I find the dust collection the best thing since, umm...red wine...when it comes to working with the router!

[Mark Singer]

Well,

I will use it...I am just getting used to the router and I will try it on the next door. Jim I know you did a review of this router....why does it only have 3 depth steps on the turret?


I was going to ask the same question...especially with mahogany which spews forth a lot of nasty fine dust when milling!! ;) I find the dust collection the best thing since, umm...red wine...when it comes to working with the router!

[Jim Becker]

Jim I know you did a review of this router....why does it only have 3 depth steps on the turret?

'Can't answer the question, although that's about the same number my other routers have, too...at least working from memory.

[Mark Singer]

Well, 6 doors are clued up and 4 are rabetted for glass. There really is nothing to post because all the techniques are more of the same. I am just in the "mass production" mode. The project seems a little easier than the last time ...better jigs are helping. I will try to order the Mahog. for the jambs. One door I can't do because the ceiling may drop for heating which would reduce the height. The framing is almost complete ...maybe a week or 2 more..

[Mark Singer]

All the doors that I can make are glued up! I have one more and the entry and I am finished...there is still making the jambs, hanging them and installing the stops. The first picture shows matching the stiles....they are cut from one board. The heavier figure of the grain should be at the bottom. The last door I made is the Master Bedroom....44" x 96"...It will have a transem above . Once the heating ducts are figured out , I will know thw height of the Powder Room ceiling and can make that last door.

[John Miliunas]

Mark, you are one lean, mean, door-making machine!:D I'd still be on my first...maybe second, right about now! Thanks again for the tutorial. Lots to absorb. I especially liked the part about making the router jig. I'll have to go over that one again. Keep us posted...Great job!:) :cool:

[Don Baer]

Mark,
Just a question. Why did you do the rabbiting after the glueup ?
I would have thought it would be easier to do them either on a routertable or a tablesaw prior to glueup. Not questioning your technique, just wondering.

[Mark Singer]

Don,

The rabetting bit has a pilot bearing and follows the inside edge, as you make the 90 degree turn it follows precisely...this would never come out as accurate if done prior to glue up and a lot more work.


Mark,
Just a question. Why did you do the rabbiting after the glueup ?
I would have thought it would be easier to do them either on a routertable or a tablesaw prior to glueup. Not questioning your technique, just wondering.

[Earl Kelly]

Mark, nice doors. Watch the price on the Mah. I've heard people complaining of it going up weekly. Almost like gas.

Are you putting Tempered or safety glass in the doors? Is it going to be clear or some of the funky textured types?

Oil finish or poly for durability?

Enjoy your tutorial, especially the pics.

[Don Baer]

Thanks Mark, Now I Know.

[Mark Singer]

Today I ordered some 4/4 jamb material from Weber....it will be delivered tomorrow...price did creep up to $6.15 /b ft. I paid $5.75 for the 8/4 just a few weeks ago! Well I am just glad I could get it! The entry door will have a rabetted jamb and side lite...I may have a transom over it ...I haven't quite designed yet.. I should order my hinges, so I can hang the doors. Progress has been good and I am glad I under took this rther large project. I will order glass soon and rip the stop material.

[Mark Singer]

It was hot today!!! Even in Laguna....I measured the doors for the glass panels. I also set up the hinge tempate jig. This is a Carrie Jig. You need to make it perfectly symettrical since it gets flipped as you go from door edge to jamb. On an *' door with 3 hinges , I go 7" from the top and 11" from the bottom. The third hinge is egually spaced between the 2 . With the end offsets equal just reduce ny 1/8 from on the door. This template has a small notch. That gives you 1/8" clearance from the head jamb. Leave 1/8 at the strike side and 1/16" on the hinged side. TIP:The best way to set the router bit depth is to open a hinge on top of the template, place the router on top, and lower it till the cutter hits the table, lock it and that is the depth. Now that seems logical, but I have showed it to a few door hangers and they always just did trial and error. If you set them to deep the door and jamd will rub.


Its always a good idea to make an MDF trial to test the hinge template. One piece needs to be cut to the door thickness, 1 3/4" in this case. The MDF jigs are good too....I loaned mine out and....well you know the rest..:confused: I was waiting so long for my crooscut sled...I made a new one...
Then, I just took it easy went for a swim ,...LOML is sleeping after running a 15 Mile marathon....woow!

I added one more door to the list and that is for the home theater equipment closet...ther will be double doors...

Here are some pics

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Good idea to test on MDF Mark. I enjoy hanging doors and someday hope to make "one or a hundred". I am following this thread with great interest. Thanks for posting your progress.

15 miles? Running?? In the heat??? :eek: :eek: :eek: I had a hard time working outside today for an hour (at the house we're selling cleaning up!!

[Charles Bruno]

Excellent pictorial Mark! Thank you for documenting your project. Having never constructed a door myself the tips help. Looking forward to the rest of your project. :)

[John Renzetti]

Hi Mark, Super work on those doors. I'll enjoyed following this whole project. And thanks for showing and teaching me some things in the process.
take care,
John

[John Lucas]

Take it from someone who has been shooting 200 pics a weeks for the last 4 years, I appreciate your reporting your efforts. It is much appreciated. It is a wonderful project to follow.

"I always reinforce the sand paper with duct tape where it enters the clip on the drum sander." That makes so much sense I never thought of it...even though the ends ripping/wearing are my pet peeve. Thanks for the tip.

[Mark Singer]

I can't remember where I got that one...somewhere along the line... The router depth tip was from Fritz and its and a very old one...he taught me to scribe the top and the latch side at the same time...oh and "a dime fits but a nickel won't"...
Take it from someone who has been shooting 200 pics a weeks for the last 4 years, I appreciate your reporting your efforts. It is much appreciated. It is a wonderful project to follow.

"I always reinforce the sand paper with duct tape where it enters the clip on the drum sander." That makes so much sense I never thought of it...even though the ends ripping/wearing are my pet peeve. Thanks for the tip.

[Alan Turner]

Mark,
Dimes and nickels. Hey, you fitting drawers or doors?

BTW, nice set of doors. I know this was just fun for you, but did you price out the doors you built? How did you do on an hourly wage vs. a puchase of special millwork.

[Mark Singer]

Alan,

Five years ago I got bids on the doors for my home from a couple of door making buddies in Laguna Canyon....$1000 each no finish and no jambs, no prehanging. I am making prehung sets with hinges , these would be about $1500 per set without hardware. Oversize would be more...The master bedroom set is 4' by 12' high... I haven't started jambs yet, but they go qiuck, I am about 45 hours into it with 8 doors ready for glass. I still have 2 small ones to go and an entry / transom set which is an offset pivot and true divided lite and 5' x 12' high....That is about a $4500 opening. So the package would have been around $20,000 or more. I think I am doing well. Its been fun . I didn't learn much on this project since I have done it before several times. I built rustic doors for a home almost 30 years ago...and for my own home about 5 years ago... It seems to get easier...little tricks here and there...


Mark,
Dimes and nickels. Hey, you fitting drawers or doors?

BTW, nice set of doors. I know this was just fun for you, but did you price out the doors you built? How did you do on an hourly wage vs. a puchase of special millwork.

[Jim Becker]

Mark, I think you doing the doors also adds a wonderful uniqueness to the property. I doubt many architects/developers also put this specific kind of sweat equity in to a home...and you can leverage that as a great selling point if/when you do decide to market the property.

[Mark Singer]

Jim,

I don't know if there is much value in the fact that I made the doors, Laguna is blessed with very fine craftsman including 2 door makers within a 2 miles of downtown...in the Canyon. People in Laguna know I build furniture but, just for personal use....It is an interesting thought and maybe with the finer cabinets I will be making and from Exotic woods, there is a grander statement rather than just the doors . That most of the cabinets and doors and finish carpentry was persnonaly crafted by the architect/ owner. Interesting thought, I was just trying to save a few $$ and have some fun...Thanks for the idea!


Mark, I think you doing the doors also adds a wonderful uniqueness to the property. I doubt many architects/developers also put this specific kind of sweat equity in to a home...and you can leverage that as a great selling point if/when you do decide to market the property.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I agree with Jim...most architects around here never even think of doing any work in the house themselves. Someone needs to do a special interest story via the newspaper or TV about your house when it's finished and on the market. Anytime there's a uniqueness like that in a house, those with the means to buy should know about it. Makes for a quicker sale and a higher yeild at closing...:D.

[Jim Becker]

Marketing uniqueness is always of value, especially when it's aesthetically pleasing, as your work always is.

By example, all of the recent (a number of years...) This Old House projects have something made by Norm. Since he generally doesn't sell his work, those enhancements to the project houses will forever be a unique and marketable feature of the property. If you put something of your own in every home you design (time permitting), that can be a "Mark Singer" signature...'kinda like Emeril's "bam"... ;)

[Mark Singer]

I now have all the opaque glass installed with wood stops which are glued and pin nailed. Next I go see Derek with his 52" Cemco wide belt sander...Stops will be sanded flush

[John Miliunas]

Great job, Mark! You're on the home stretch, now. :) Jambs next, I assume? Oh, then mortising for the hinges, doing the rest of the hardware.... OK, so you do have a ways to go, but still great progress! :D So, you schleppin' them doors around by your lonesome or did you manage to talk your protege into giving you a hand? BTW, from the last pic, I don't recall seeing any block and outlet on the ceiling anywhere! New addition???:D :) :cool:

[Mark Singer]

John,

I did 6 solo and my back was not doing well:mad: ....then yesterday after Myriam and I hosted a Birthday Brunch for my friend Mike Caston, who you met, Ryan pitched in and we finished up the rest. Including the huge M Br door. The glass weighs as much as the frame and when you get the two together...."oiy"...you got heavy on your hands!!!

So I am about to start the "true divided lite" transom that goes above the M Br door . Then I will need to prep the stock for the jambs.

The last door will be the 13' high entry...with off set pivot and proper water proofing milling details for sash, muntins, head and sill...there is bit of new ground to cover.

Hardware installtion including some tips on hanging for a nice fit

[John Miliunas]

Well, my friend, you've already given me the basic fundamentals of door making and now, I'm sincerely looking forward to your tutorial on the hanging them bad boys!:) (Wish I were there, to get that knowledge first hand!:( ) I will patiently await the next Balboa Door installment!:) :cool:

[Kelly C. Hanna]

They are beautiful Mark! I would love to make my own front door someday. I will be printing this thread out for sure.

I have a secret for carrying doors. Carry them on your forearm with either the left or right hand on the top of one side and the bottom of the other laying on the other forearm. You just pivot them off the floor onto the forearm and go. Works for most any size door and weight.

[Bill Karow]

Mark,

Thanks for sharing this project. It's wonderful to be able to follow along.

Question for you regarding the four door arrangement you've shown in the doors you built previously. Are they all sliders into pockets, or how are they set up?

My reason for asking (and hopefully I'm not way off base, if so I apologize) is that I'm thinking of closing off our basement gym with a similar arrangement, but haven't found good how-to info. If you (or anyone else) can point me to some basics on sliding pocket doors, especially a four door arrangement, it'd be much appreciated.

I'm such an ingrate - show me a method for making gorgeous doors, and I'll ask how you built the rest of the house around them :)

[Rich Konopka]

Mark,

I love the doors!!! Thee wood and glass really are a nice design element as well as it is very functional by letting natural light flow through. I stayed at really nice Boutique hotel in San Fran this week which had the exact same style and materials and it was really impressive with the matching built-ins and trim. Please keep this thread going I really have enjoyed following it.

All the Best

[Dan Mages]

Man!!! Now I remember why I miss this place so much. Mark, you keep impressing me with your work. Definately some good inspiration for when I can get back to wood working (hopefully this winter), although I will need years, decades of practice to get that good.

Dan

[Mark Singer]

Thanks for the supportive comments! This is not a difficult project , it is just a lot of physical work and some experience... General construction experience is helpful so the doors fit well in the intended openings..

Jambs,
In the photos, you can see I had some help...I need it ! There is about 250 BF in jamb material that needs to be dressed from rough sized and detailed..

Along comes Ryan and he knows the machines and the process...we work well together. The Jambs are simple...4/4 mahogany with a saw kerf for the drywall mill core.

I had the doors sanded by South Coast sanding....Ryan and I and Dirk the owner hussled the doors through in about an hour....$110 damage... It is a 52" Cemco and well worth the trip over!

Construction costs on the home are running a little over...I am doing ok overall. Sales prices for homes are up and that is nice to know if things remain that way....

[John Miliunas]

250BF???!!!:eek: Yikes, I hope one of you remembered to empty the cyclone drum every now and again!:) Glad to see Ryan volunteered to give you a hand with that! You're right...He's a good worker (...well, as long as you don't put an architectural magazine in front of him!:D ) Anyhow, looks like you're making good progress. I can't wait for the tutorial on doing all the hinge mortises and hardware installs. If my budget ever catches up with me again, I've got a few doors "on order" from my #1 client, as well!:) Say, did either of you ever bother to put some type of wedge or something under the one corner of that planer, so it doesn't rock?:D :cool:

[Corey Hallagan]

Lot's of work I guess!! Glad things are going well! No wimpy machines in that shop!

Corey

[Mark Singer]

The procedure for hanging doors in the workshop can be done differently than on site where the jambs are installed. One advantage is that if you install the hinge side of the jamb on the bench , you can set a small gap if the door is square and planed . A small spacer and a couple of clamps can set the strike side of the jamb and hold it. Using a bar gauge , you can accuratley measure the required head jamb length. Cut it ...tap it in place. Pre-drill the holes in the rabbets at the top of the jamb and you are there. This is much easier than planning the door to fit in a already set and sized jamb. I go 2" over on rough framing which allows a small shim space. The lock holes are bored on the bench. There is a lot to think about and you can make mistakes. You need to know the swings ,,,left or right. You need to organize the correct jamb width for its location and door. Make sure you measure the lock bore from the bottom! The hinge layout is always set from the top. 1/8" is a good head clearance to allow for movement. I/16" is good on the jamb strike side. The gap on the hinge side is set by the hinge and mortise depth....the deeper you recesss the hinge the tighter...I just go a hair past flush..

[Jim Becker]

Real nice precision on the the "hanging", Mark! The doors look great in the shop...'can't wait to see them in the house.

[Corey Hallagan]

Man, that is amazing. Can't imagine making it thru all those steps without making some major mistakes. Can't wait to see them installed!

Corey

[Dan Larson]

Thanks for the update, Mark. I've really enjoyed this thread-- actually I enjoy all of your threads. Just finished reading of number of your older threads, too. Wow, lots of interesting reading! I appreciate your generousity in sharing not only your woodworking and design knowledge, but also the nuggets of your perfonal life, too.

Dan

[Mark Singer]

Ryan came over yesterday...the doors are heavy and I really needed the help. We got all except for 2 doors complete. As the work piece gets bigger it becomes necessary to use hand and power tools rather than machinery and that is the case wit hanging doors. The stars of the show were The Veritas Jointer plane with the fence to true the edges. The Festool Plunge saw was very helpful in triming door edges and rail extensions. My old small Rockwell 100 router....for installing the butt hinges. A large Hitachi 1/2" drill for boring the large lock hole using a holesaw. A couple of Bosch cordless drills for installinng hinges and drilling. My Bosch 6" ROS for detailing the doors and final sanding of edges and faces. A couple of hand sanding blocks for softening edges and final edge sanding. There are so many corded tools out it quickly looks like an octopus and you need to undo the mess a few times... The results were really nice though ....it is a lot of lifting and moving of heavy doors..Looking forward to building cabinets again!:rolleyes:

[Andrew Ault]

Mark,

I've never used a jointer with a fence. Do you mount the fence on the side of the plane nearest you and then sort of lean against the plane and into the workpiece? I'm thinking that this may be a solution for long boards that would be difficult on my 6" jointer.

Thanks,
Andy

[Mark Singer]

Andrew,

That is corect! With most of the weight down and a smaller amount agaist the fence. Using a plane is exactly like using a jointer...weiht first on the front then even and moving toward the heel as you reach the end of the board. That is a terrific plane and the adjustments are precise with no slack in the adjustment


Mark,

I've never used a jointer with a fence. Do you mount the fence on the side of the plane nearest you and then sort of lean against the plane and into the workpiece? I'm thinking that this may be a solution for long boards that would be difficult on my 6" jointer.

Thanks,
Andy

[Andrew Ault]

Thanks, Mark.

I guess I'll need to get my order in by the end of the month for the included fence.

I like the concentrated low center of mass. It's pretty neat that the same blades will fit the jack and smoother as well.

- Andy

[Mark Singer]

The following pics show hinge fit, jamb construction, making a pair fit precisely as if they were a fine cabinet. I used hand planes to quickly tailor the fit...

[John Miliunas]

Wow Mark, those came out beautiful! I assume the pair is the stereo cab doors? Sadly, in much of today's construction, that much care and attention to details "just on doors" isn't seen very often. You do wonderful work and again, the attention to detail is exemplary!!! :) Great job, buddy! :D :cool:

[Jim Becker]

"Great Fit" is an understatement, Mark. That's wonderful work!

[Corey Hallagan]

Great looking doors Mark. What a wonderfull job you have done. Some extremely precision work! Thanks for the pics.

Corey

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Beautiful work...wish I could see them in person!

[Karl Laustrup]

I've got to agree with those before me, those doors are wonderful. I would also like to see and touch them, but after they're installed in the new house.

Speaking of which, have I missed an update on the "Spec House", or are we maybe overdue on an updated picture tour? :)

Thanks Mark,

Karl

[Mark Singer]

In the original thread I mentioned I would relate the techniques for hanging doors. This is a skill that takes a lot of experience and all of the nuances are learned by doing and over many years. I will try to breifly explain the procedure for installing prehung doors that were made in a shop...not the no brainer nail through the casing variety...I will also touch on the hanging of doors in a jamb that is set in an existing building.

Shop built pre hungs.

1. The rough opening is checked for size and plumb using a 7' level and a tape.

2. The door jamb is cut to the height of the finished floor.

3. The door is set to 1/2 " above the finished surface

4. Starting on the hinged side the jamb is attached to the framing with screws which are located behind the stop molding...that way they are hidden.

5. The first screw is placed opposite the lowest hinge and then moving up to the middle and finally the top.

6. The swing side jamb is then checked with a level for plumb and for straightness...no light should be seen at the level/jamb interface

7. Shim and make the swing side perfect.

8. Remove the block that is holding the lock side of the jamb at the finished floor height. Place a smal 1/8" shim on top of the door and allow the jamb to head jamb to rest on the shim.

9. Place the first screw on the lock side jamb about 1 foot below the head..

10. Do the same adjacent to the lock and again a foot above the floor.

11. Close the door and using a spacer or your eye shim between the jamb and the trimmer to keep a consistent 1/16" gap down the lock side.

12. Close the door and hold it flush with the jamb edge at the lock , as if the lock were installed.

13. See if the door is also flush at the top and bottom with the jamb face..if it is not one side of the wall is out of plumb and this should have been identified when cross strings were set across the jamb and touched at the center.

14.If they are not flush, cheat the jamb in the opening to make it coplaner ..you can trial and error this..a 16 teenth on both jambs is better than an eigth one!

15. When you close the door , if it wants to spring opened...the back edge is binding on the jamb...shim behind the hinge to swing it away from the wall....this will require resetting the lock side a bit...sorry:(

16. Add additional shims and screws as required...on an 8' door I have about 5 per sde and one or 2 at the head jamb. One close to the floor is important..

[Mark Singer]

Hanging a door in a jamb that is already set

1. Check the overall opening side and the hinge side for plumb

2. Cut the door bottom to about 1/2" above finished floor.

3. set the door in the jamb with the hinge edge against the jamb alowing te top and lock side to project.

4. Scribe the top and lock side at the same time

5. Cut on the scribe line.using a Skillsaw or guided saw

10. Using a template guide mark and rout the hinge mortices

11. Install the door.It will bind on the lock side...the top should be fine if you allowed an eighth when you set the hinges

12. Scribe again and plane 1/16" past the scribe line...make a second line so you know where you are.

13. Bore the lock with the proper backset...usually 2 3/8" ..some lock bores are not 2 1/8" ...some are mortise...some a 1" bore so check the hardware...

14. Rout the strike into the jamb...etc.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I have a love-hate thing going right now for doors. I follow a very close version of both your guides and they are both very good btw.

The love is that I am good at them. The hate is I am tired of doing anything prehung. Since no one who makes them here in Dallas does a very good job anymore, I am very close to halting that segment of the business.

I prefer replacing existing doors...much better since I can use wood doors. I don't like steel doors at all and never plan to do them again.

[Mark Singer]

Kelly,
You are correct most prehungs are terrible...if you make your own in a shop, it brings with it a level of perfection not easily matched in hanging doors at the site as is more typical. That is why I did it this way. On the bench , I was able to control tolerances , squarness, and planning edges to a higher standard. The trick is to then maintain that as they are installed in the home...The openings are never square and require work... Without moldings everything shows and is difficult to fix...I have one jamb where the drywall reveal varies about 3/8" over 12' ...it is a tall opening. I will have the drywall sub contractor use thinner gyp at the top ,where the bow occurs to correct it. By cutting deeper saw kerfs in the jambs , I can cheat the out of plane problem...
In my current home I feild hung the doors and they fit great...so there is more than one way

[Tom Donalek]

I doubt many architects/developers also put this specific kind of sweat equity in to a home...

:mad: Hey! Don't lump us in with 'developers'! Ewww! We architects endlessly fight with developers, and even homeowners, to put money and effort into details like this. I've been following this thread with intense jealousy. I've worked on houses with construction budgets in the high six figures where we had to twist homeowners' arms to get more 'stain grade' doors, as opposed to 'paint grade' doors. The idea of having custom doors made, even the main entry door, would be a mere dream... (Most people want lots of square footage and are willing to sacrifice quality to get this quantity)

Sorry, but this is on my mind right now. My boss and I are going to meet with a developer to discuss designing some 'mcmansions'. The less sophisticated the developer, the worse these projects seem to go. Putting money into quality construction (sometimes even on structural issues) is an endless fight.

Sigh .... those doors look great...

[Mark Singer]

Tom,
Thanks...I know thw battle well! We have all kinds of budgets...I met with a client today and she was complaining that her husband cut back on the cabinet budget....he reduced it to a mear $160,000...this is for a 4500 sf home,,,great view. The cabinets are Siematic in the kitchen and an old friend Dan Curtis is making the remainder...He spent 5 years at College of The Redwoods with Krenov....he has some stories to tell...Before that , he worked with Quincy Pond here in Laguna...doing custom work

[Tom Donalek]

Tom,
Thanks...I know thw battle well! We have all kinds of budgets...I met with a client today and she was complaining that her husband cut back on the cabinet budget....he reduced it to a mear $160,000...this is for a 4500 sf home,,,great view. The cabinets are Siematic in the kitchen and an old friend Dan Curtis is making the remainder...He spent 5 years at College of The Redwoods with Krenov....he has some stories to tell...Before that , he worked with Quincy Pond here in Laguna...doing custom work

I was just about to get a glass of juice. If I had, and then read your post, there would be cranraspberry sprayed all over my laptop! Part of how you get yourself through the drudgery and stress of being an 'apprentice' or 'journeyman' architect is thinking about how some day you'll work on projects that have to 'cut back' to $160k for cabinets in a 4500 sq. ft. house... ah, some day....

(Another 'some day' will be the day that I'm so obsessed with a project that I 'volunteer' to make some component (doors, cabinets, trim) that the client won't/can't pay for. Somehow, I just know that I'm capable of being stupid/insane enough to do something like that. :p )

[Jim Becker]

Sorry, Tom...I didn't mean that in a negative way, rather it spoke to the functional status of this kind of project. Mark is the designer. He just happens to be the developer/builder on the project. And...he's the craftsperson behind some of the special touches. Very hands on.

I do appreciate what you said about developers/builders, however. That's one of the reasons I've been working out a lot of the design details for a future home addition myself, with the advise of Mark and others. The builder will be required to bid/build it that way once a real architect fleshes it out and writes the specifications. If we're going to invest "that much" money on this thing, it's gonna be the way we want it... ;)

[Mark Singer]

Earlier in this post there were questions about the interface between the wood jambs and the gyp. bd. Finally the house was at a stage where the edge metal was installed and I could take pics to show th connection. The Milcore metal tucks into the saw cut I made in the edge of the jamb....later this is caulked. In museums and modern buildings of high quality construction and design...casings, baseboards and moldings are viewed as adornments that disturb the perity and beauty of a pure planer wall surface..."shadow" base is comonly used which allows the floor surface to look continuous and the walls to appear floating. The abscence of moldings make construction more dificult since there is no adjustment....moldings serve as a way to hide defects....adjust jambs and windows ...and once in place no one can tell. Here we are striving for precision...floor thickness is determined and set...ceiling floats over wall with a shadow metal...jambs are acurately set and drywall moulded to them in a minimal and unforgiving way...

[tod evans]

mark, i like it, but i`ll bet your drywall guys cuss?

[Mark Singer]

mark, i like it, but i`ll bet your drywall guys cuss?

They are used to class "A" work...They did cuss at me on the Shafer house about 6 years ago....they had to follow around tread on riser on 2 sets of limestone stairs....11,000 sf of super custom work!