SawStop Sliding Crosscut Table

[Marty Tippin]

I was looking at the SawStop at the local Woodcraft over the weekend and they had it set up with the SawStop sliding crosscut table attachment. http://www.sawstop.com/crosscut

I pretty much fell in love with it and believe I'll have to include it when I buy my SawStop in the next few months. It's a $1k accessory but was smooth as butter and seemed like it would be infinitely useful.

Anyone else have the slider? Opinions?

[Dan Klein]

For $1000 I'd just use a crosscut sled or buy the Incra 1000HD, but that's just me.

[Marty Tippin]

Those are definitely cheaper alternatives but neither will let you crosscut a full sheet of plywood...

[Kevin Wolfe]

Heck, for $1000 you could buy a real nice track saw and still have money left over for other stuff.

[Keith Hankins]

For $1000 I'd just use a crosscut sled or buy the Incra 1000HD, but that's just me.

I loved that CC sled, but thats what I did, but I will say it's a lot cheaper, but some tasks it would be awesome for. I don't use that much sheet goods so I found the tradeoff worth it. I do love my 5000 sled from Incra.

[Peter Kelly]

Heck, for $1000 you could buy a real nice track saw and still have money left over for other stuff.For $1,200, you could get a TS 55 and MFT/3.

[James Zhu]

In stead of buying SawStop and its crosscut device, I would just look for new/used Euro sliding table saw or used Euro saw/shaper combo.

[Marty Tippin]

In stead of buying SawStop and its crosscut device, I would just look for new/used Euro sliding table saw or used Euro saw/shaper combo.

I'm buying the SawStop for its safety features. I'm a software engineer by day and 10 working fingers are vital to my livelihood...

[eugene thomas]

I was in woodcraft few weeks ago and checking out sawstop with sliding table. I have the grizzly after market slider on my 1023 and the quality of the sawstop slider is WAY better.

[Peter Aeschliman]

There was another thread about this recently. I think the two most common issues were:

(1) the lack of positive stops for 90 and 45 degrees, which called into question the accuracy (may just be perception), and

(2) the insane price.

Do a search and you should find the thread. There was at least one person in that thread who owned the sliding table, so you should send him a message about it.

[Jim Andrew]

I'm 63, been doing woodworking since junior high school, and still have all my fingers. But I have had boards kick back. The only kick backs I've had on my sliding table saw, was the scrap cut off on the right side of the blade when crosscutting. And I was on the left side of the slider. I consider a sliding table saw much safer than a sawstop.

[Joe Cowan]

I was checking out the same slider this last week. The 3hp saw and slider was $4000. Hard to justify for my hobby shop, but I want it.

[John Coloccia]

I'm in the "for that kind of money, just buy a Euro slider" camp. I'm sure they'll sell lots of them, but in my opinion it misses the mark in too many areas, especially for $1000.

[Mark Carlson]

I have the jessem version and love it. The sawstop has two problems the cost and the legs. Jessem is supposedly coming out with a new one but dont hold your breath.

[Chris Padilla]

In stead of buying SawStop and its crosscut device, I would just look for new/used Euro sliding table saw or used Euro saw/shaper combo.

Right here. After the money spent for the SS + xcut sled, you are in the realm of a true sliding table saw. Once I realized this, my desire for SS waned quite a bit.

[Tom Bussey]

Marty,

I would buy a sawstop if my livelihood depended on it. I have a General 350 that I have had for 30 years. Hard to let go of it for what I would have to have. I have a friend who almost lost a thumb and what is that worth. I also have a delta contractor saw with a excaliber sliding table mounted on it and yes I can cut a 4x8 sheet in two. So I do understand your delema. I checked out the grizzle aftermarketslider and the slifing tablesaw and the one problem is one almost gets trapped in front of the blade when ripping. I had an old delta that did that and it was spooky to say the least. Just remember that there is alot of different functions a table saw does and if you want the kind of protection a sawstop offers than the sliders won't do you any good. If you have the money go for it. Just make sure you won't get trapped close to the throw of the blade when ripping. It is something one doesn't think about untill it is to late.

[Carroll Courtney]

Its your money buy what you want,I would think that at that kind of money for a package an upgrade should never be needed.If I had the rm and extra,extra I would go for the real slider.Either way post some pic once you get it home,I'm jealous----Carroll

[John Schweikert]

I have a SawStop with shop made crosscut sled and a Festool TS75. I wouldn't give up either. The TS75 has abilities far beyond breaking down sheet goods. I just clamped the rail to the side of a cedar clad meat curing room and was able to cut out a horizontal window opening in the cedar cleaner than any other tool could do. Taking a track saw to sheet goods is far better than taking a sheet of ply to a table saw. Track saws can be plenty accurate for even the best casework.

[Chris Padilla]

Good point, John.

There are two things one ALWAYS does in woodworking (or other trades, too):

Push the tool through the work or
Push the work through the tool.

One way is usually better/safer/cleaner than the other. :)

[Peter Aeschliman]

I have a SS PCS and I love it, but I'm now convinced that format style sliders are safer because (1) there's no risk of cutting fingers off when your hands are away from the blade, AND (2) you're out of the path of kickback. The SS can only claim (1)- I have a stupidity scar on my forehead to prove it! :)

This of course assumes you never use the rip fence in the manner that we use them in North America though. And I know that some euro slider guys still do that sometimes because sometimes I think it's the most convenient way to set up a rip cut...

A few years back, I heard that SS was coming out with a sliding table saw. I was pretty let down when it came out and it turned out to just be a bolt-on sliding table attachment. I actually talked to SS at one point, but they were somewhat hush-hush about it, but they did tell me they were coming out with a slider of some kind. So my expectations were set on a format style slider for some reason.

That would be the ultimate table saw! Seriously, can you think of a safer TS? This way you can use the rip saw like a north american when your workpiece is too long for your slider, and not worry about cutting off your fingers.

I have excalibur sliding table attachment on my saw and it does work well. I use my track saw to break down sheets, and the excalibur and rip fence to make them perfectly square. I'm still getting used to my track saw, but I just don't trust that I can get it lined up accurately based on pencil marks. I just wish I could get both the brake and a true slider in one saw. One can dream I guess! :)

[Keith Mathewson]

I have a 10' SCMI and a Sawstop, each has its place and one is not a good substitute for the other. I just wish Sawstop would make a slider.

[James Zhu]

I'm still getting used to my track saw, but I just don't trust that I can get it lined up accurately based on pencil marks.

To get the perfect cut using track saw, parallel guide is needed. Check this thread from FOG, http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-how-to/4x8-sheet-goods-breakdown-with-the-parallel-guides/

[James Zhu]

This tutorial http://www.solowoodworker.com/mm/slider.html from Charlie Plesums well illustrates why Euro slider is safer and better than traditional table saw.

[John Sanford]

This tutorial http://www.solowoodworker.com/mm/slider.html from Charlie Plesums well illustrates why Euro slider is safer and better than traditional table saw.

A Euro slider is safer than a traditional North American table saw, yes. It is not safer than a SawStop. The two are essentially the same from a TOTAL risk standpoint, just a question of which type of risk one is willing to accept. A Euro slider has a lower inherent risk of flesh to blade contact than a SawStop, whereas the SawStop has much less damaging consequences of flesh to blade contact. If one is optimistic about avoiding said contact, go for the Euro slider, if one is pessimistic, go for the SawStop. (note: When you have a brain fart when using a saw, the risk of making contact goes up by multiple orders of magnitude. What? You say "no brain farts for you!" Well, the tutorial linked above includes, yes, a brain fart that resulted in blood shed. In a tutorial touted as illustrating the superior safety of the Euro slider. :eek:)

I'm with Keith above. I would very much like to see a true Euro slider with SawStop's blade brake tech, although I'm not sure such is possible. I am not, however, likely to wait for such a product, as it doesn't appear to be on the horizon.


Back to the OP's question. I've played around some with the slider, it looks really well built. As far as the 90 and 45 stops, that's actually a fairly easy thing to sort out. Simply make a precision triangle that drops into the left side miter slot. Move the cross cut fence up to it, lock it down to your angle, and you're done. Hang the triangle back up. Takes slightly longer than using a detent, but it will never wear out of whack.

[Bill Adamsen]

A sled is an inexpensive, easy to build/replace, flexible, tried and true solution that has the added benefit of storing easily and out of the way. A sliding panel saw squares large panels. That Sawstop accessory looks like it might miss on a few of those attributes. Lot about the Sawstop itself I think are great. But that slide is not a compelling feature.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I'm buying the SawStop for its safety features. I'm a software engineer by day and 10 working fingers are vital to my livelihood...

That is the primary reason that I opted for SawStop. Also, I have a pretty small shop, so I don't really have room for the slider part so I opted for a track saw to break down sheets. Never having used a slider, I cannot comment on anything related to the slider, however. Does a slider help you at all with small parts, or do you still need to use a sled for safety? Can you even use a sled on a slider?

[Mark Rakestraw]

I have both the Stopstop PCS with the crosscut table and a Grizzly G0623X slider. I wrote a long review comparing the advantages of each but took so long the site logged me off and I lost the text in the process of signing back in.....sigh... I'll re-write it sometime but the short answer is that the sliding table is very nice overall with one serious flaw in my view: The stops are not stops but merely place holders, they flex if you actually bump your work piece against them. In my mind it is a design flaw in what is otherwise a premium product and Sawstop should redesign and send out replacements. They politely told me that wasn't going to happen. This is an important function of a crosscut fence: accurate sizing of a batch parts. In making your decision you should add in the cost of buying, and modifying to fit, functional stops. I thought my $1000 would have bought me those already.

Other than those issues I like it. Fence is easy to remove and replace (accurately). Works smoothly. For many things this style table (as opposed to a "real" slider) has the advantage. The crosscut fence being further from the blade means I can break down sheet goods with a track saw and then rip and crosscut to final size without removing the cc fence. Lighter weight means less effort to start/stop table on repetitive cuts, etc. But man those stops......

The picture shows the Sawstop fence stops next to Grizzly's. Note the tiny 3/8" wide section at the pivot point, which rides in nylon bushings. Too much flex even when brand new. I doubt they get any better with use
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[Martin Shupe]

Mark, did you modify your stops? If so, can you show us how?

I am considering one of these, but I think I will wait until Sawstop fixes this problem, unless you have an easy fix for it.

Thanks for you insightful review.

[Keith Weber]

I was in woodcraft few weeks ago and checking out sawstop with sliding table. I have the grizzly after market slider on my 1023 and the quality of the sawstop slider is WAY better.

I was in Woodcraft recently, too, and I saw a Sawstop slider there. The quality of my 2nd hand Euro Slider was WAY better. It may have a 48" rip capacity, but its not nearly as stout or versatile as a real sliding table saw.

[Mark Rakestraw]

Hi Martin,
I haven't figured out how to do it yet. Here's my stop-gap method:
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Having to loosen the knob and move the brace every time you want to flip the stop out of the way isn't a proper fix. I don't see a way to make their stop more rigid. I was hoping to get some ideas from one of their engineers but "that's not their job". The only thing I've figured out so far would be to buy a couple of the Grizzly stops then have the necessary parts machined to get them to work in the Sawstop's wider channel. I'm hoping I can come up with some easier.
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[James Nugnes]

There was a thread here about a guy getting a used TS that came available because the organization's insurance company selling it politely "suggested" they get a SawStop. Maybe guys interested in upgrades but not all that interested in SawStop specifically might find that a good avenue to some good used equipment that they would prefer anyway. I would bet when the insurance company comes calling, there is not much internal discussion about making the change or not.

[Bill Sutherland]

I have the Sawstop PCS and the TS55 and MFT and for the money I'd do it again. There are so many things the TS55 MFT combo do well as well as having the table as a clamping/finishing platform. I haven't discovered all its capabilities but when you visit the Festool Owners forum it will amaze you.

[Lee Reep]

To get the perfect cut using track saw, parallel guide is needed. Check this thread from FOG, http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-how-to/4x8-sheet-goods-breakdown-with-the-parallel-guides/

I own a Festool TS-55 track saw, and it is an amazing tool for breaking down sheet goods. I bought the Seneca Parallel Guides, which are less expensive than Festool's. They have received really positive reviews and are a really nice add-on for making repeatable 90s after busting down a sheet of plywood. (Seneca also makes several add-ons for Festool's Domino). I bought a track saw rather than upgrading my contractor saw to a SawStop. I'll get a SawStop someday, but not the wide table version. I see no reason to ever put a full sheet of plywood on a table saw after using my track saw. I built my own "MFT-style" workbench, with CNC-machined large top. It also doubles as my outfeed table for my table saw.

[Dennis Aspö]

I think the OP said he was a hobbyist (like me) so I don't think a big format style slider is the ticket if space is a concern. I got a euro saw with a slider (Rapid PK-100), it's a american style cabinet saw and I think it's a great machine. It's very versatile setup and it can take all types of jigs and it takes less space than a format slider.

The slider can't be used to rip long pieces but with my short fence addition and the riving knife, I am entirely satisfied with this solution and think it's a perfectly safe way to operate.

[Curtis Myers]

: The stops are not stops but merely place holders, they flex if you actually bump your work piece against them. In my mind it is a design flaw in what is otherwise a premium product and Sawstop should redesign and send out replacements. They politely told me that wasn't going to happen. This is an important function of a crosscut fence: accurate sizing of a batch parts. In making your decision you should add in the cost of buying, and modifying to fit, functional stops. I thought my $1000 would have bought me those already.



I completely agree. The stops are the week link to an otherwise excellent product. Both of my stops were out of square when I received them. Called Sawstop and they sent me two new ones which were also out of square. Took them apart and squared them up. They designed the stops way to compliceted for what they are.
If you watch their sliding table intro video on YouTube (www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw0282Ymv6o) they describe how you can slam a piece of 1" or smaller stock into the front of the stop and the stop will popup out of the way. They put to much design emphasis on the popup gimmick where they designed an effective stop feature OUT of the stop.
I emailed Sawstop several time about the inadequate stop design. At first the engineer told me the stops were not designed to hold upto the demands of a production shop and ment for the hobbiest. I told him I was a hobbiest and was dissatisfied with the gimmicky stop. Please design an effect stop. I would simply purchase a competitor stop but the channel is a proprietary size.
I like the sliding table but I paid WAY to much for it and they missed the mark with the stops. Even if they fix the stops I cannot swallow the $GRAND$ I spend. With all that said I'm keeping the slider because I like it even though I paid too much. I already had a Sawstop and plan to keep what I have. If I was just starting out a small true slider would be in the same price range.



Curtis

[John Sanford]

If you watch their sliding table intro video on YouTube (www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw0282Ymv6o) they describe how you can slam a piece of 1" or smaller stock into the front of the stop and the stop will popup out of the way. They put to much design emphasis on the popup gimmick where they designed an effective stop feature OUT of the stop.Curtis

The popup is not a gimmick. It's a feature common to many saws, it makes for quick squaring of work pieces. SawStop's execution may not meet your preferences, but the feature itself is found on everything from the Kreg Miter Saw "fence" kit to Felder sliders.

[Steven Satur]

The problem with the stops are all well and good, I think I could live with that. Its the missing 90+45 degree detent that is the problem

[John Coloccia]

I emailed Sawstop several time about the inadequate stop design. At first the engineer told me the stops were not designed to hold upto the demands of a production shop and ment for the hobbiest.

Well, again, this shows how far off the mark SS is with this thing, and I'm a big fan of a their product...I'm on my second SS. I really have to scratch my head and wonder just what the heck was going through their mind when they designed this thing. When you can design a contractor saw that performs as well some cheap cabinet saws, and then you introduce something that just misses in so many different ways, it really dilutes the brand.

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

I've been on the fence for a Sawstop PCS and the sliding table just added to my interest. I currently have a Unisaw with an Excalibur sliding table. I'm happy with the setup but the footprint takes up a lot of real estate in my shop. I was at Rockler looking at the SS with slider and one thing that bothered me is the base rail protrudes a good 12" in front of the fence rail. That means you have to either stand to the left of it which puts your eyes too far from the cut line OR you stand to the right of it and now you are right in line with the blade. My feeling is you would stand to the right of it with the power off to line up your cut, then move to the left side and start the saw up and make the cut. Seems inconvenient to me. Was wondering if anyone has thoughts or experience with this.
I was unaware of the fence stop complaints here, I'll have to return to see for myself.

[John Coloccia]

I believe you can move the rails forward so they don't protrude, at the expense of capacity of course. There's a video kicking around somewhere that they mention this, I think, but I just don't have it at my finger tips. I WILL say that the one I played with at my local Woodcraft was sturdy as heck and silky smooth. For the few design features that really turn me off, it does seem like a well built unit.

[Dave Anthony]

I use a Jessem sliding table, wound up making a home made stop block, see:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?133632-Homemade-stop-block&highlight=

Kinda crude, but it it works quite well. You should be able to do something similar w/SS. The Jessem doesn't have 45 & 90 degree detents either, and this is not a problem as far as accuracy goes. I can get reliable cuts (can make a picture frame without gaps in any of the miters) using just the markings on the scale. It can be a problem with movement when cutting large heavy pieces so I've learned to crank down hard on the locking knobs. Personally, I love the slider and the saw would seem incomplete w/out it.

[John Sanford]

I've been on the fence for a Sawstop PCS and the sliding table just added to my interest. I currently have a Unisaw with an Excalibur sliding table. I'm happy with the setup but the footprint takes up a lot of real estate in my shop. I was at Rockler looking at the SS with slider and one thing that bothered me is the base rail protrudes a good 12" in front of the fence rail. That means you have to either stand to the left of it which puts your eyes too far from the cut line OR you stand to the right of it and now you are right in line with the blade. My feeling is you would stand to the right of it with the power off to line up your cut, then move to the left side and start the saw up and make the cut. Seems inconvenient to me. Was wondering if anyone has thoughts or experience with this.
I was unaware of the fence stop complaints here, I'll have to return to see for myself.

Regarding the 12" projection in front of the saw, John Coloccia has it right. Set up flush to the saw, the slider has a capacity of 36" or so. You can increase that capacity by "moving" it so the table projects in front of the saw 12". The slider still slides the same distance, it's just that the start point is 12" farther from the front of the blade. If you look at the SawStop Sliding Table Overview (http://www.sawstop.com/crosscut) slideshow, Slides #2 and #3 show the two setups. I don't know how troublesome it would be to change from one setup to another.

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

I have both the Stopstop PCS with the crosscut table and a Grizzly G0623X slider. I wrote a long review comparing the advantages of each but took so long the site logged me off and I lost the text in the process of signing back in.....sigh... I'll re-write it sometime but the short answer is that the sliding table is very nice overall with one serious flaw in my view: The stops are not stops but merely place holders, they flex if you actually bump your work piece against them. In my mind it is a design flaw in what is otherwise a premium product and Sawstop should redesign and send out replacements. They politely told me that wasn't going to happen. This is an important function of a crosscut fence: accurate sizing of a batch parts. In making your decision you should add in the cost of buying, and modifying to fit, functional stops. I thought my $1000 would have bought me those already.

Other than those issues I like it. Fence is easy to remove and replace (accurately). Works smoothly. For many things this style table (as opposed to a "real" slider) has the advantage. The crosscut fence being further from the blade means I can break down sheet goods with a track saw and then rip and crosscut to final size without removing the cc fence. Lighter weight means less effort to start/stop table on repetitive cuts, etc. But man those stops......

The picture shows the Sawstop fence stops next to Grizzly's. Note the tiny 3/8" wide section at the pivot point, which rides in nylon bushings. Too much flex even when brand new. I doubt they get any better with use
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I just came from my local Rockler and had to see the flex for myself. Honestly, I didn't think it was bad at all. Negligible at most.

[Joe Jensen]

I don't know about the Sawstop slide attachment but I was never able to get panels perfectly square with my Festool track saw. With the Felder slider every panel is perfectly and effortlessly square.
Heck, for $1000 you could buy a real nice track saw and still have money left over for other stuff.

[David Kumm]

I don't know about the Sawstop slide attachment but I was never able to get panels perfectly square with my Festool track saw. With the Felder slider every panel is perfectly and effortlessly square.

Since panels aren't rectangular from the factory, what is the procedure with a track saw? Dave

[jack forsberg]

Since panels aren't rectangular from the factory, what is the procedure with a track saw? Dave don't they have them flip fences for the table but than its like a table saw:rolleyes: and you have to buy more fence track. I would get real tired of cutting narrow strips Dave. For $1000 i could fill my shop with sliders. not hard for me as I got a small shop but i am sure you could fill yours for the price of a new one Dave

[David Kumm]

You know me, Jack. I can't have too many sliders. Dave

[Joe Jensen]

Since panels aren't rectangular from the factory, what is the procedure with a track saw? Dave

That's the problem. To square a panel you use a square to align the track. The Festool track saw cuts as smooth as my Felder. But at least for me after the first cut you depend on your ability to align the rail to marks on the wood. It works well for many but not me.

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

I have just recently purchased a SS PCS and the Sliding Crosscut Table. I'm overall pleased with it. My old unisaw had an Excalibur sliding table that I used for almost 20 years. Neither one have a detent stop for 90 degrees or any other angle for that matter. The Excalibur developed a detent for 90 over time through wear and tear. But the lack of a detent shouldn't be an issue for anyone considering the SS slider. What many may not realize is the fence has a magnified bubble view needle just like the one on the rip fence. Once you get your saw calibrated for 90 degrees it's a snap to hit the 90 mark without a detent. Mine was calibrated perfectly from the factory, btw. So any angle in between is easily achievable using the bubble view needle. Any miter gauge I've owned has detents but I've never trusted any of them to be accurate. The SS slider does not operate like a miter gauge does; rather clumsily. It's a smooth and precise instrument that lets you zero in on any angle very easily and precisely.


The problem is the stops. It's not that they flex so much but it's that they're out of square. Excalibur's has but a simple L-bracket made out of machined aluminum. Why do they need to be so large? The squareness issue can easily be remedied if the surface area of the paddles are reduced. I'm going to try drilling and tapping a hole in the side of one of them down low so I can insert a machine screw to serve as a standoff for your work piece.

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[joe milana]

I've seen that crosscut sled, and I would be reluctant to throw a full sheet of 3/4" plywood on it. Might get away with it every once in a while, but a few kitchens worth of cabinet cases (which isn't a lot), and I have a feeling that thing would be a pile of parts.
I made many a cabinet with a festool tracksaw and a sheet of styrofoam sheathing, down on my knees, and got great results. Just wore me out. At first I would cut everything oversize, then finish cut it on the cabinet saw, then I got pretty confident with the tracksaw, and a crosscutting jig that I made. That & a couple crosscut sleds for the cabinet saw, and you can tackle just about anything.

[Izzy Camire]

Thanks to everyone for their input on the sliding table. I have thought about this for my new PCS (Woodcraft called today it is in) but the price puts me off.

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

I've seen that crosscut sled, and I would be reluctant to throw a full sheet of 3/4" plywood on it. Might get away with it every once in a while, but a few kitchens worth of cabinet cases (which isn't a lot), and I have a feeling that thing would be a pile of parts.
I made many a cabinet with a festool tracksaw and a sheet of styrofoam sheathing, down on my knees, and got great results. Just wore me out. At first I would cut everything oversize, then finish cut it on the cabinet saw, then I got pretty confident with the tracksaw, and a crosscutting jig that I made. That & a couple crosscut sleds for the cabinet saw, and you can tackle just about anything.
I wouldn't want to sling a full sheet of plywood on the SS either. One reason I opted to mount the slider rail flush with the front of the saw. I break down my sheet goods the exact same way as you, with my TS75. Then finish up on the SS. Much easier, safer and better reults that way. I don't ever see myself crosscutting anything greater than 30" on the sawstop.

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[Greg Portland]

That's the problem. To square a panel you use a square to align the track. The Festool track saw cuts as smooth as my Felder. But at least for me after the first cut you depend on your ability to align the rail to marks on the wood. It works well for many but not me.
You can use a MFT to ensure an exact 90 degree cut angle. However, I'd still want to use the Felder.

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

I've added a new thread on how to tuneup the flip stops here:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?229331-Sawstop-Sliding-Crosscut-Table-(Flip-Up-Stop-Fix)&p=2397309#post2397309

[Mike Shields]

Today I saw this on a PCS at a local shop. It is built very well, it should perform well as a large capacity CC sled. But at $1000, no friggin' way.

[Rod Sheridan]

I'm buying the SawStop for its safety features. I'm a software engineer by day and 10 working fingers are vital to my livelihood...

Then Marty you'll be just fine with the slider as your hands aren't near the blade.

I'm also assuming that you're a careful person who keeps the guards on the machine when in use.

For me the choice was simple, if I wanted a cabinet saw it would be SS, however as I would never go back to a cabinet saw I didn't buy a SS.

If you are however someone who removes the primary safety mechanisms during use, then yes you definitely need the secondary safety system.........regards, Rod.

[Roger Feeley]

Hey Marty,

Roger Feeley from Reuters here.

I have the SawStop ICS and would do it again in a heartbeat. The only downside is that the thing weighs a lot and it was a stinker to get out of our basement when we moved from Overland Park to Virginia last December. I had to beef up the stairs and hire riggers to move the SS, bandsaw and some other heavy iron. Cost to move those things from basement to garage was about $1000. But no one was killed and that's a good thing.

The slider is on my wishlist but not until I get my workshop out of storage. We are building a new house with a basement shop.

The only complaint I had about the Sawstop was that, because my saw faced away from my basement stairs, it was difficult to know if I had left the saw on (booted up) or not. I talked with SS about it and they said that most people just leave it powered up. My response was that if the electronics should be on all the time, then why was there an off switch? So I wanted a way to indicate that the electronics were one without voiding the warranty. It turns out that there is such a thing as a ground fault relay. The electronics draw about 20ma so I ran the relevent hot wire (my saw is 240v) through the GFR. When the saw is powered up (just electronics), the relay trips and powers on lights above the saw bed. It's easy for me to see that the saw is on when I leave the shop.

[Jim Dwight]

I don't like cutting to pencil marks with my tracksaw either. I got a inca gauge that works with a .5mm pencil which helps a lot but I still prefer stops I set with a steel rule. My track setting jig lets me position the rail without pencil marks. They have stick on rules and adjustable hairline pointers. My Paulk style crosscut jig has a moveable stop. It also cuts square and works for up to 3 feet crosscuts. So a lot of the time I use my tracksaw ithout marks (sometimes I use pencil marks as a rough double check).

[Roger Feeley]

Marty,

How hard is it to remove the crosscut fence so you can rip? When I looked at the slider a while back it seemed like kind of a hassle. I just looked at the SS video and verified that you have to use a hex wrench to remove the fence. I would probably replace that with a brass knob of some sort. I'm not too thrilled about having to find a tool to do a simple thing like that.

Also, do they provide for a spot to store the fence under the slider. That would be a very SawStop type touch.

[mark mcfarlane]

Since panels aren't rectangular from the factory, what is the procedure with a track saw? Dave

There are several 'published' workflows for squaring panels with a track saw, of varying accuracy.

Use a square and mark a line

Make a jig

Attach a square to the rail.

Use Festool's MFT table and flip-down guide rail - takes ~1 minute to set up accurately using dogs to register the back fence and the rail at 90 degrees, cross cuts limited to 27" on the standard table (people have complained of a little slop in how the flip down rail registers to its 'holder' to lock it at 90-, there are workarounds, I don't have that problem.

Use an MFT - style table with a uniform grid of holes - build as large a surface as you want - and use bench dogs to register the wood and 'long bench dogs' to hold the rail at EXACTLY 90 degrees, such as the QWAS Rail Dogs http://www.qwasproducts.com/RailDogs.html.

There are also numerous vendors, including Festool, Seneca, Incra with some add-ons, and Woodpeckers (one-time tool that has expired) who sell 'parallel guides' for making fast, repeatable parallel cuts. These systems are probably faster than using a slider, unless maybe you have pneumatic clamps on the slider. No clamping is needed for the Festool tracks, particularly if you add another row or two of the 'sticky rubber' on the bottom of the rail.

The MFT approach of using dogs to register the wood and the rail can be very accurate, but if you want to crosscut a 4*8 sheet you are going to need a really large table. Ron Paulk has an interesting design for a large portable torsion-box style knock down MFT style workbench.

Some people claim to prefer using the Festool track saws to break downsheet goods to their final dimension rather than manhandling the sheets onto their slider. Slide the sheet off your pickup truck onto a raised cutting surface on the drive way, cut to final dimension, carry the lighter cut pieces into the shop. This guy shows a nice workflow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4VTxEGyU0Y

With Festool's parallel guide extensions you can cut accurate thin strips, e.g. edge banding stock https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9EoFR9UqCQ

Like any tool, you need to invest the time in learning the tool and how to set it up properly.

[Chris Parks]

I think the OP said he was a hobbyist (like me) so I don't think a big format style slider is the ticket if space is a concern.

A small slider has the same footprint or maybe a bit less than a cabinet saw with 52" rails and you can always remove the outrigger and it will be smaller than the cabinet saw. In feed and out feed areas are the same for both as a sheet is a specific size no matter how big the saw is. I use my K3 slider every day and I might use the rip fence once a month and mostly less as all ripping is done on the sliding table and all the rip fence is used for is a measuring stop for the width of the rip. See here....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0PyFjtSHrE
The slider used this way is way safer than the SS because your fingers are nowhere near the blade and kickback is impossible because the rip fence is not used. This is the original video, bad quality but it is where the F&F Jig comes from....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqzVglze9Nk

[Rich Riddle]

I'm buying the SawStop for its safety features. I'm a software engineer by day and 10 working fingers are vital to my livelihood...
In a jobsite saw, I have the new Bosch REAXX with the sensing technology that functions much the same way as the Sawstop functions. In a "cabinet" size saw, I chose a European slider. I feel much safer with the slider since my hand gets nowhere near the blade when using the saw. You can have both with the Sawstop slider, but it's akin to wearing a belt with suspenders. Choosing between my two if they were both in the room, the European slider would be the choice every time. It's simply much safer.

[Jeff Wykrent]

Hi all. I teach woodworking at Paw Paw High School. Just recieved 2 SS ICS 36" and 52" with sliding tables. I only installed one on the 36" because I plan on using that one for mainly dado stacks and cross cuts. I'm not a big fan of the stops and the need to have a tool to remove the fence. I do feel it will provide added safety and accuracy if use properly. It is a 100% improvement from our shop made cross cut sled.

[michael dilday]

There was another thread about this recently. I think the two most common issues were:

(1) the lack of positive stops for 90 and 45 degrees, which called into question the accuracy (may just be perception), and

(2) the insane price.

Do a search and you should find the thread. There was at least one person in that thread who owned the sliding table, so you should send him a message about it.

you don't need positive stops on a miter. You do way more measurements with a tape measure and it doesn't have positive stops.

[michael dilday]

I have the jessem version and love it. The sawstop has two problems the cost and the legs. Jessem is supposedly coming out with a new one but dont hold your breath.

What legs are you talking about. The professional is a cabinet saw.

[michael dilday]

I have a SawStop Pro 3hp. Not only does it have the safety feature but it is a great saw besides.