Time to upgrade the miter saw... thoughts

[Rob Price]

I have a basic 12" Ridgid miter saw. It's served me well, but it's not really accurate enough for woodworking (more of a contractor saw). I have a nice Incra Miter gage for my TS, but sometimes the pieces are too big/long to be safely handled on the TS.

I figure it's time for a SCMS. 12" probably. Most interested in precision/accuracy. I saw the Jet SCMS on Amazon, I'm a big fan of Jet/Powermatic tools (I have several) but it sure is pricey. Is it worth it? I can't find many hands on reviews. The next step down is Bosch. I haven't ever used any of their bench tools. I like the articulating arm idea, more compact, but does it work? Dewalt's reputation seems to be taking a beating as of late. Of course down at the low end is the Ridgid, which is nearly half these other saws, but I'm guessing I'd be stuck with another mediocre saw (you get what you pay for, right?).

So I guess my question- is the Jet really that good? Could I save some cash and be happy with Dewalt/Bosch?

Can't afford the Festool, don't go there ;)

[Kent A Bathurst]

Just my take on life, but..........

I was never comfortable with the concept of accuracy and a sliding saw. Too many moving parts and too much reliance on excellent/exceptional machining - just a lack of confidence on my part. For general framing and trim work, I could see it. But for furniture builds - skeptical.

I have an out-of production Delta 12" CMS, and a friend has the modern-day Dewalt 12" CMS. Both cut dead-nuts plumb and square, very reliable. [after initial alignment/setup, of course, and periodic recalibration].

Also - if you are going with a slider, is the 12" really necessary? Bucking logs, are we?

I certainly could be wrong - never happened before, but, hey today could be the day, right?

If I had to be going with a slider, I would drink the kool-aid and find the big bucks.

[Carroll Courtney]

If your doing trim work then the scms is fantastic(trim carpenters us them all the time),I do alittle what I call furniture making and when I can I use the miter saw.Sometimes my work may not be up to snuff compare to others so the scms help with the fit.But the scms is only as good as what the blade is and the user.I have the Dewalt 12" that I purchase several yrs ago and its very nice but not the cats meow.I have a 10"Makita that very good and has a tight kerf that helps with splintering.I wish the Dewalt had that feature figure in but a good saw blade would also help.The better saws are going to cost maybe as much as what a TS cost.Good luck with your choice and lets use know what you pick and how you like it----Carroll

[Nick Coffelt]

It doesnt sounds as though I am in your tool league, but I have a Craftsman SCMS with the shallow clearance. It cuts very straight and angularly correct. I picked it up about 9 months ago and have loved it. Tough enough for the big stuff and accurate enough for the small projects. I will say that I had the laser on the first couple cuts and it hasnt been on since, its not very accurate and even after calibration it can be slightly off.

Good luck.

[Kent A Bathurst]

It doesnt sounds as though I am in your tool league...

Of course you are. Ya plays with the cards you are holding, figger it out, and share your observations.

All good. Egalitarian. Bordering on Communism.

Keep it going, Comrade! :D

[Jim Matthews]

You won't go wrong with the Bosch.

That said, after I finished my deck - I sold my Miter saw.
I migrated to a hand powered traditional miter
saw for moldings, picture frames, etc.

It's VERY close to the final dimension with little cleanup required.

If you're not in a production environment - it's worth considering.
Mine is cast iron, and not what I would call portable.

[Buck Williams]

I have the Makita LS1016 10" SCMS, and wouldn't hesitate to buy another if I had to. No problems with holding accuracy, I've had it for about 4 years, built a lot of face frames for kitchen cabinets, cabinet doors, picture frames, trim work, it's never let me down so far, I can count on a 90° cut being a 90° cut. On top of that the stock blade that comes with it is very good.

[Rob Price]

Thanks for the replies. One thing I hate is running out of tool- it'll be overkill for most jobs but I'll use the capacity. I get a lot of 8/4 stock and often in fairly wide boards. I don't think 10" will be enough.

Re: Accuracy: when I need absolute small part precision I use my incra and my SawStop. But when it's a longer piece-that's just not safe. My current ridgid is off by more than 0.5 degrees with any angle other than 90 and I can't dial it in. The detents are fixed. I'm Not looking for thousandths of an angle precision from this, but better than what I have.

All the joints in the Bosch seem like points for flex and movement. I'll have to get hands on one.

I'm Gonna see if I can find a deal on the Jet, the Makitas get good reviews apparently. Decions, decisions...

[Rob Price]

And I've got a nice Freud blade already, I realize most stock blades are junk.

[jack duren]

Most known brand saws are fine. Jet I would have no need to look at personally. Smaller the blade on the saw the less flex you'll get. Freud I wouldn't look at since I use only Amana. Reviews are like brands of soda, you like Dr. Pepper I like Mountain Dew. You need to personally check each saw for what you like. Reviews are salt in my book.

[Dave Lehnert]

I have the Ridgid 12" Sliding compound miter saw and it is 100% accurate. I could split a hair with that thing.
I used a 2x10 Hard Maple board to test cut as I dialed in my saw.

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[Ken Fitzgerald]

Just my take on it.

Which saw I would use if I was carpenter making a living and which one will replace my SCM are two different things.

I have a Delta SCM and it's not accurate enough for my amateur finish carpentry work on my home and surely not accurate enough for the furniture I build.

The most accurate compound miter saw I have ever used was a basic 7" Craftsman I borrowed from a neighbor to install wainscoting in our living room. That thing was dead on every time and repeatable. Why was it so accurate? In my opinion, 1) it was simple 2) it only tilted to bevel in one direction 3) it didn't slide and 4) a small diameter blade.

Since I am doing more amateur furniture building in retirement, I will try to find an accurate non-sliding compound miter saw to replace the Delta for which I have so little respect.

[Steve Wilde]

I have the Ridgid 12" Sliding compound miter saw and it is 100% accurate. I could split a hair with that thing.
I used a 2x10 Hard Maple board to test cut as I dialed in my saw.

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I had a rigid just like the one above and it was horrible! The runout on the arbor was pathetic! I couldn't make miters very accurately and decided to bite the bullet and get a Kapex. Hands down the best miter saw i've used!

[Justin Ludwig]

I have a Dewalt 12" SCMS. It gets moved quite a bit from job to job. I've had it for over 2 years and haven't had to recalibrate since the initial set up. It still cuts dead-nuts. I used it for a year cutting face frames and door parts to length without problems. I replaced it with an OMGA for dedicated shop use. I use a WWII Chopmaster blade. I'm happy with it.

[Scott Brandstetter]

Not sure if this is an issue or not for you but something I am now dealing with. I have the Ridgid 12 inch SCMS and that sucker is huge and takes up a lot of room. Fully extended it is over 3 ft from the wall. I love the saw, mine is perfectly accurate, and has done everything I have asked it to do.

[roger wiegand]

I have a Hitachi SCMS that is about 15 years old at this point and it continues to be spot-on accurate. I find it to be much better than using a miter gauge on the table saw, or even crosscutting on the TS, because I don't have to deal with the wobble introduced by trying to keep a 3-10 ft board all moving in the same direction at the same time. (I have a JDS AccuMiter gauge for the TS, so I'm not trying to do it with the stock miter gauge) I have a Biesemeyer fence system for the SCMS that allows me to made dead accurate repeat cuts against a stop. All in all a much more satisfactory solution than trying to horse wood around on a table saw.

Sorry, I can't help with new saws, my approaching ancient one still works great. I don't know if the new ones are as good-- given the number of people complaining about inaccurate cuts with a SCMS quality must have gone downhill since hey were first introduced.

[Justin Ludwig]

Another thing to add about the Dewalt is the LED light. I've mentioned this in other posts. Some saws us a laser to pin point the cut line, but the Dewalt's LED light shadows the blade and never has to be calibrated. It makes cutting on your mark extremely easy and very accurate. Only down side is when I set up outside and the sun overpowers the shadow. Sometimes I can position my body to shadow, but if not, I'll just walk the cut in if it was to be dead accurate.

[Rob Price]

I think I'm 90% set on the 780. I do like the LED idea. This will be installed inside in my shop- no outside use (or rare outside use, won't say never.). I'm gonna see if I can find any deals on the Jet saw, sometimes when you talk to dealers in person they can come up with discounts. Otherwise I think the Dewalt is the winner.

[Nick Stokes]

Something to consider. The big box stores came out with some Dewalt 782's a few months back. They are very similar to the 780, just without the laser, and maybe some other small difference...

But the thing is they are clearance selling these bad boys... Some people are finding them for around $200 or so, but it would be worth calling around a bit either way. Ask for the 782, should be invoiced at $399, but the sku should ring up much much lower.

Just an idea I saw this somewhere else.

[Rob Price]

I saw that (get it?). What I couldn't find was if they have any other differences. Does Dewalt really think the LED is worth $200? I tend to think there are other cost cutting measures in the saw, but it seems no one really knows. My HD has the 780 (funny, they have a 718 or something on display). Lowes has the 780 on display. I can't find a way to compare them side by side.

[Jim Dwight]

I have a Hitachi C12FDH - a 12 inch non-slider. There is a bit of what could be called run out but I attribute it to the Hitachi blade (it isn't the stock blade but is by Hitachi). If I need to cut real precisely, I have to rotate the blade to make sure I have the closest tooth. It's about 1/64 so for a lot of things it isn't necessary. I should swap the blade, however, to confirm that is the problem. Other than the blade, I have no complaints except the cross cut capacity is only about 8 inches. I've thus thought about sliders.

The Hitachi slider, C12 RSH, seems like a good buy at about $450. Reviews are generally positive. It weighs over 80 lbs, however, but you said you won't be moving it. It has covered tubes like the Jet. It also can be adjusted to cut part of the way through pieces. I like this for cutting tenons on long stock (like for a bed).

After my research, however, my choice would be the Bosch GCM 12SD. One reason is it seems like it can be placed closer to the wall. It will get used mainly in my shop so wall clearance is important. I've seen a few negative reviews but overall opinions seem very positive. Crosscut for 1 inch material is about 14 inches - really good. It seems like a nice tool for half the price of the Festool.

[Art Mann]

I have the Bosch 12 inch articulated arm sliding miter saw and I like it a lot. For cabinet work and some furniture work, it is just great. Having said that, I must admit I don't use it for cutting miters on my keepsake boxes and my best furniture efforts. It just isn't as accurate as my table saw with miter sled. I took great pains many years ago to build a very accurate sled and I have often been glad I did. I really think there is an appropriate place for both tools.

[Val Kosmider]

I have been looking at Compound Miter Saws for a while now. I recently built the bench with the recess for the saw, and now it is time to make the purchase.

FWW has done a couple of reviews....first of sliders, and then of non-sliders/gliders. They seem to like the Bosch for the money, but there are others which the feel favorably disposed to (Makita IIRC). Get the articles on line and read away.

My choices are focused on the Bosch 5312 (Slider), or the GCM 123D (Glider) or the CM 10 GD (glider--10" blade which I think might be a little more accurate. I am leaning toward the latter.

[Bill Adamsen]

I suspect a lot has to do with how long one has had the tool and figuring out its idiosyncrasies. I have had a Hitachi 8' CF8 SCMS since buying it new perhaps 25 - 30 years ago ... and I remember what a huge difference it was from the alternatives back then. I replace the blades regularly, but I'm still using it for all but the tightest "framing" cuts which I would finish off on the Lion or Morso trimmers. Biggest complaint is dust. No matter what measures I take, it is perhaps the most offensive dust producer in the shop. For that reason alone, I have been seriously considered replacing the Hitachi with a vacuum mated Kapex. But from what I've read in this forum, that is one of the Festools that is not a dust free tool. Still thinking about it.

[Chris Padilla]

I have a DeWalt 705, I think. Bevels one way, 12", non-slider. I've been looking at the Bosch 12" slider with the articulating arm pretty hard but still haven't pulled the trigger. The 10% off the Kapex had me looking that way a bit but I just can't see myself spending north of a grand for powered miter saw despite how wonderful, dust-free, and accurate it is. Besides, my DeWalt is dialed in with periodic adjustment and does pretty much all I need. I guess I'm just looking for an excuse to replace it but don't really have one. :)

[Mike Schuch]

Of the sliding compound miter saws that I have used none of them have held up to the accuracy of a quality radial arm saw. SCMS are made lightweight to be portable. Radial arm saws are made big and heavy duty to be used in a shop. By quality radial arm saw I mean a Delta Turret Arm, Dewalt Iron arm, Walker Turner, Unipoint. When I had a Craftsman RAS many years ago it wasn't up the the quality / accuracy of an industrial saw.

When you look at the price of a new top end sliding compound miter saw the price of an used industrial radial arm saw looks like a heck of a deal!

[William C Rogers]

I have the 12" Ridgid non slider and use it for rough work. Just something about it I don't like. I also have the 12" Milwaukee slider and it is dead on. It has a light and also shows the angle digitally. It was dead on right out of the box. Mine is about 7 years old, so don't know if they are still made as good.

[Rob Price]

I'm tempted to get a fixed double bevel- but I wonder if the slider isn't as good when just used as a chop saw.

I have a friend (who makes a living with his tools) who has the Dewalt and Kapex- of course he's pushing the kapex- not sure I can justify the cost.

[Chris Padilla]

Like anything Festool, you cry once at the lighter wallet but likely smile every time you use it and soon the money parting is no big deal. BUT...just don't think I can spend that kind of money on a miter box.

However, I have to tell you, if the Kapex took a 12" blade, I'd might actually pull the trigger. I'm not sure what I'd do with all my 12" blades if I went Kapex...they aren't cheap...guess I could sell them. :)

[Rob Price]

Then there's the Milwaukee....

Analysis Paralysis. I'm just gonna buy something.

[Rob Price]

Ok. Put down your pencils. Went with the Milwaukee. It gets great reviews. $50 more than the Dewalt, I had to order online but I can return to my local big box hardware store if needed. I liked better dust collection/digital miter which seems to get good reviews/longer warranty for otherwise very similar capacity. The rails slide into the table underneath. It's a little different design. I'll post pics and first impressions next week hopefully.

[Rich Riddle]

I had a Ridgid just like the one above and it was horrible! The run=out on the arbor was pathetic! I couldn't make miters very accurately and decided to bite the bullet and get a Kapex. Hands down the best miter saw I've used!I had to also return a Ridgid because of run-out. It was absolutely terrible. I now use a combination of saws; for large cuts the Bosch works great, for smaller things the Makita 0714 proves the best saw. It's wonderful to use. Because of it, I cannot justify the expense of a Kapex.

[Rob Price]

Well, it only took HD 5 days to ship it, 3 hours later it was at my local UPS center. Sat there over the weekend and finally got it today. Not that I'm impatient.

Had just enough time to unpack it and make two cuts. I have no idea how accurate it is at this point. First cut was a 2x12 scrap I had lying around. That was a two step process with the old saw. Cut like butter. Next was a 8x3 piece of poplar. Again, no problem, nice and smooth without any hint of bogging.

The dust collection really works well. I'll have a large hood behind it connected to my DC system anyways, but it does a nice job.

I have an old two sink bathroom vanity with drawers that I'm going to convert to a miter station. I'll post pics when that's done. Trying to find a decent, full kerf 12" blade to put on this bad boy. Leaning towards a 60T or 72T Freud at the moment. I'm a little concerned the 90T+ full kerf blades will put a lot of strain on the motor.

[mreza Salav]

I have that saw and have been using it extensively over the past year or so to do lots of work in the house. It's a good saw. I have worked a bit with Kapex too, that has too many plastic parts that break too easily. My finish carpenter had two (yes two) Kapex and was using as a spare part replacement to get the other one going (he had a very nice collection of tools btw).

[Rick Potter]

Sweet saw. I wouldn't worry about the blade, I have had a thin kerf 100 tooth blade on my 12" DeWalt for years. I would keep the original for construction lumber, not that hard to change out.

[Rich Riddle]

Wow, that saw sure looks like a monster.

[Justin Ludwig]

Trying to find a decent, full kerf 12" blade to put on this bad boy. Leaning towards a 60T or 72T Freud at the moment. I'm a little concerned the 90T+ full kerf blades will put a lot of strain on the motor.

If you're dead set on getting a full kerf, go through Tom @ Carbide Processors (phenomenal products/service and you support a fellow Creeker). For my CSMS I use the Forrest WWII thin kerf without run-out problems. My RAS and TS I get custom blades from Tom.

[Rob Price]

I'll look into that. Also found the amana age heavy duty miter blades- full kerf, 80 teeth. That's a reputable brand, isn't it?

[Rob Price]

I'll post a few thoughts on the saw. Was about 0.1 degree out of square, nit picky I know, but easy enough to correct. The miter detents, however, are not even close to accurate, but the detent override plus digital scale make it easy to set it, write down the angle, and it's as repeatable as a detent. It seemed like all the saws I looked at had one big detent plate, it would be nice if they would make the individual detents adjustable. Of course this is with the thin kerf blade, maybe it's deflecting a bit. Full kerf Amana blade was delayed by weather, hopefully here next week.

Adjusting the bevel was a different animal. I'm posting this for the benefit of anyone who gets as frustrated as I did with the lack of instructions on the bevel adjustment, if you don't have this saw, just know that it's a pain and the instructions are not clear or effective.

Milwaukee 6955-20 bevel: It was way out of square on arrival (more than a degree, which is a lot to me). The instructions to correct it are not clear, refer to three different screws that are not labeled or pictured in the manual. The process they describe in the manual doesn't work. You're supposed to release the detent clamp (after you figure out which two screws control the clamp) , which is different from the big red bevel clamp, and then there's an adjustment screw that moves the tooth that sits in the detent. You adjust this right or left until it moves the saw right or left and then tighten the clamp. The only problem is that when you loosen the clamp, there's about 5 degrees of play in that tooth. so when you tighten it back down, go away and come back to that setting, you can be way off again. So what I did was set the saw at 90.0 (all the way down, like it would be making a cut) using my digital miter scale. locked the red bevel clamp. took the back off the bevel arm where I could see all these parts I was blindly adjusting, loosened the clamp, adjusted the set tooth until it went up and down easily in the detent without slop, tightened the clamp screws, and now it sets dead on every time at 90.0 degrees. For other bevels I'll use my digital angle gage.

Like I said in my other posts, I'll use my TS and incra miter gage as much as possible, but when I need to use the SCMS I want it to be as accurate as possible. I think I can get that with this saw. The sliding mech is very smooth with no appreciable slop, although it's a little different than most saws. This one is fully extended all the way back, and fully retracted when you pull it towards you. Don't know if one is better than the other.

[jack duren]

I'll look into that. Also found the amana age heavy duty miter blades- full kerf, 80 teeth. That's a reputable brand, isn't it?

A.G.E. is AMANA's budget brand.

[Rob Price]

yes, but their regular miter blades are close to $200. This was a more palatable $90, similar to all the freuds i could find. It was the only full kerf blade I could find that didn't have aggressive 10 degree rake angles. It's gotta be better than the OEM blade, I hope.

[Rob Price]

Finished (mostly) my miter station today. Not bad for $60 in materials. Got the vanity from a remodel job.

I take back what I said about the miter detents. They are spot on. The factory blade had a ton of runout. The Amana full kerf blade is much flatter. Cuts very cleanly. No hint of strain on the motor (apparently has some type of electronic speed control).

Looks like I can only post one pic at a time from my phone.

[Rob Price]

Dust collection is very good. I'll build a hood next.

[Rob Price]

Last picture.

[joseph f merz]

i have several saws . i do have a kapex ,but i also have a milwaukee 12" slider .like others have said it is accurate .i could not say kapex was more accurate . but my main point is if your going to put it in your shop and you have a DC then this is not a bad way to go .a 4" hose will hook up to the milwaukee .with a 1hp DC hooked to it I get excellent dust collection .which in a shop is nice . though this saw is huge .
the kapex gets good dust collection with even the most powerful of my vacs hooked to it . But all the saws out there these days are great .need to figure what features you could really use .which is easier said then done .

[Jim Dwight]

Last picture.

Thanks for the pictures. Looks like you were able to put the Milwaukee pretty close to the wall - maybe a foot away?

[Rob Price]

The top is 30" deep. Probably closer to 15"'from the wall. It worked out that the depth needed by the sliding mechanism was exactly the depth of the dust hood I have on hand. I love it when a plan comes together.