Planing Hardwood Edging Flush with Plywood Tabletop. Taking forever... help.

[Erich Weidner]

Hello,

I am building several tables (on number two of four) for which I'm having a heck of a time planing down the edges.

The table top is 3/4 inch Oak veneered plywood to which I add 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" oak edging. The finished dimensions are 6' x 3'. I attach the edging with Festool Domino floating tenons. To get a dead flush tabletop I set the Domino up such that the edge is "proud" of the plywood surface by about 1-2mm (whatever the difference of one "step" on the Domino's fence.

Now my problem. It is taking me forever to plane this down. My tools are sharp, I suspect my technique is the problem. The plywood is (of course) not dead flat. a 4' straightedge placed in either plane reveals this. The edging helps to pull it flatter (part of the reason I choose 1-1/2" thick).

Jointer plane doesn't seem to do the trick as it barely removes any material, the fore plane doesn't do much either unless I skew it so that barely any sole is on the edging. My low angle block plane (also only if skewed) actually pulls off material, but it is painfully slow. It took me 6-8 hours to get a dead flush table top. Dead flat isn't so important, but flush between the edging and plywood is. However, my hands aren't happy and this is just taking too long. (Note: the 1-1/2" edging was cut on the tablesaw and is flat prior to glue up, verified with the 4' straightedge).

Anyone else have a similar problem? Can anyone suggest a solution? Are hand planes not the right tool for the job? I doubt I'll ever find a sheet of ply that will be and stay dead flat, so surely this has happened to others. :)

-Erich

[Rick Whitehead]

I've planed a lot of edging flush with a plywood surface, and it's never taken me that long to do it.
I think you're on the right track, but need some modification to your technique.You say that the longer planes don't work unless you skew them.That's right.Because of the uneven surface, the longer planes bridge the high points of the surface, and just cut at those points.
I always have to skew my planes when planing edgebanding. I usually use a jack plane or a wide jack plane (a Stanley no. 5-1/2).That's just what I have chosen to use; I have other planes that would probably work as well. I take as heavy a cut as I safely can, then re-adjust for a finer cut as I get closer to the plywood surface. I sometimes use a Stanley no. 80 scraper for the final passes, and a card scraper as well.
Next time, you might try getting the edgebanding a little closer to the plywood.2 mm is a lot to plane off. I usually leave 1/32" or so, and I use a rabbet in the plywood and a dado in the edgebanding to align everything.
Hope this helps, and that it's easier next time!
Rick

[Winton Applegate]

Take some spare stock that is the same as the edging. Put it on your bench against a stop. Experiment with all of your planes until you get perfect results.
I would go with a blade with some camber (curve to the edge). Set the depth so I get some thickish curls. If it is tearing out or chipping up look at your chip breaker or edge geometry. Once you can take a heavy cut with no issue then practice taking down the thickness on your spare stuff. Then change to a finish blade/plane and perfect the surface.

It should only take a few minutes to plane this skinny board a couple of mm.
I would use a short plane so it can follow the undulations in the plywood.
When you are doing the final passes watch the curl like a super hawk and if you see any indication of the ply picking up then you must stop plaining there at least with the blade overlapping the ply. In other words plane with the blade next to the ply or a narrower blade/plane.

We had this discussion some long time ago.

Wax your plane sole so it is easy to push.

Sharpen your blades to the point the hair on your arm pulls them selves up by the roots and runs away on the mere approach of the blade before if ever touches them.

You might look at this plane (https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/special-purpose-tools/chisel-plane?node=4076) for the final passes but not a requirement. Notice it is capable of planing a drip of wax off this table without touching the finish. Not bad. Try that with a regular plane. Not gonna happen.

In any case search for other discussions here or in FWW.

[Jim Matthews]

Tape off the plywood next to the edging. Verify that your blade is set square to the sole. Double check that your cap iron is backed off. I have two planes that are forever out of sorts with the cap iron covering the cutting edge.

[Jim Koepke]

Jointer plane doesn't seem to do the trick as it barely removes any material, the fore plane doesn't do much either unless I skew it so that barely any sole is on the edging. My low angle block plane (also only if skewed) actually pulls off material, but it is painfully slow.

The skewing tells me the plane is riding in somewhat of a valley. Both ends of your plane are higher than the mouth. Thus it keeps the blade from making contact in any but the highest places. Skewing causes a shortening of the plane's sole on the stock allowing it to follow the valleys.

This may be a job were a good spokeshave might do the trick.

My other thought would be if there is a way you can flex the stock to flat on the side that is being trimmed you might have better luck. If this were possible you could affix a batten to the top to act like a fence to keep your plane blade off of the ply while still cutting the edge.

Maybe on the next one you can do all but the final few shavings on the edge trim before it is glued.

jtk

[Mark Kornell]

Erich,

Further to what Rick said about how far the edging should be proud of the panel - 2 mm is a lot. Even though the Domino fence only adjust in increments, you can get a much smaller offset by using a thin shim. When Domino-ing the edging, no shim. But when Domino-ing the panel, tape a playing card or two under the fence. That will mean a lot (comparatively) less of the edging to be removed.

[Kees Heiden]

When planing, do you have a decent workbench to support the plywood? If it can flex it will bend away from the plane's edge.
I have done this a lot for my kitchen cabinets and didn't think much of it. But I had the planels on a decent flat workbench.

307063

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Try a shorter plane. You aren't trying to make the edging flat, just flush. Two completely different things.

[Pat Barry]

Try a shorter plane. You aren't trying to make the edging flat, just flush. Two completely different things.
Agreed. Also - take it easy because the plywood veneer can be very thin and you definitely don't want to plane that away.

[Dan Hahr]

Unless you used really high quality plywood, you are going to be very frustrated when you start digging into the veneer and exposing the cross plys. You will probably need to plane from the center out and perpendicular to the banding to level it with the top. On a surface this big, the weight of the top itself will bend it out of flat, causing even more difficulty. Once planed across the banding, you can use a scraper to smooth it out. That is a lot of banding to plane on a very flexible surface. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.

Dan

[Prashun Patel]

I'm partial to Jim's idea. Clamp the end down to your bench. You can even shim the center slightly. Planing a slightly convex surface flush will be easier than a concave one, which I believe you have.

I prefer to plane edge banding with a #4 or #5. The jointer is just a little too long to give me the ability to plane local areas as needed.

[glenn bradley]

Try a shorter plane. You aren't trying to make the edging flat, just flush. Two completely different things.

Agree. Planes make things flat. Plywood is not flat. Tailed tools are not always a sin. A flush trim router bit takes care of this in a snap.

[Tom Vanzant]

#5 plane, skewed, with tail on the plywood, iron on the edging, and toe out in space. Fairly heavy cut to start, then thinner to nearly flush, then scraper or sandpaper to flush. The oak veneer is very thin, so....

[Jamie Buxton]

... A flush trim router bit takes care of this in a snap...

His edgebanding is 1 1/2" wide.

[lowell holmes]

A small spoke shave and sharp card scraper is how I would approach the job.

Fine Woodworking has a video about sharpening card scrapers. The scraper will leave curly shavings after sharpening.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Actually I think your greatest issue is how much material you have left proud of the plywood top, 2mm is a pretty fat 1/16" on you wide edging.. As previously posted, the face veneer on the plywood is ridiculously thin (1/40"), I don't use plywood much, but when I do, I don't leave much more than can be cleaned up with a sharp card scraper, with the plywood veneer side of the scraper protected with painters tape..

With a step that much, on that many linear feet.... I would use a router with a big mortising bit and vertically trim the waste material close, then finish up with your hand tool of choice.. To vertically T&E rim the router would sit on 3/4" plywood or MDF, the mortising bit would stick out of the router by say 23/64" leaving the edging proud by a 1/64"

Here is a commercial example of verticals trim subase http://patwarner.com/vertical_trim_subbase.html

[Winton Applegate]

flush trim router bit
well yah if you want to take every bit of the "fun" out of it. :)

but is 1-1/2 inches wide
I hate power routers and almost never use them but there seems to be a workable bit (http://www.amazon.com/CMT-806-690-11-Super-Duty-Cutting-Carbide-Tipped/dp/B000K29S5G/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1424106457&sr=8-4&keywords=flush+trim+bit).
What am I failing to understand here ?
Might need to make a jig/base to help stablize the router but that is a common practice.

[glenn bradley]

His edgebanding is 1 1/2" wide.

That is of no consequence. I am an avid hand tool user but, if my complaint is the speed and the result, there are options.

307082

If the OP wants to do all hand work, that's great and I applaud him. If he wants to go faster and flush to slightly irregular reference surfaces . . .

[Doug Bowman]

#5 plane, skewed, with tail on the plywood, iron on the edging, and toe out in space. Fairly heavy cut to start, then thinner to nearly flush, then scraper or sandpaper to flush. The oak veneer is very thin, so....

Yep - I would recommend a 4 in your case - but that is exactly how I do it.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

That is of no consequence. I am an avid hand tool user but, if my complaint is the speed and the result, there are options.

307082

If the OP wants to do all hand work, that's great and I applaud him. If he wants to go faster and flush to slightly irregular reference surfaces . . .

I have a nice setup for doing this with my router. It is very fast and does a very nice job. I have always been afraid that I would go a bit too deep and take the veneer off the plywood if I did this with a hand plane, especially if the play is a bit wavy.

[Winton Applegate]

Yah Mon . . . just show what Jah teach
Plywood she is the devil
it lead to Babaylon

Mighty dred, I and I no plywood mon
so
I and I no router mon

Irie

[Shawn Pixley]

Ain't no routa in trenchtown

[Erich Weidner]

I'm about to get started gluing up the edging on the next table. So I should be ready to tackle the planing of the edging again later this week. I also did find a Whiteside 2" flush cutter at my local woodcraft, so I might give that a try and see how it goes this time.

If I'm working while the wife is home I might get her to shoot a video of my attempts to plane down with the hand plane. Perhaps someone can then critique my technique.
OTOH if the router works, I'll probably just be cleaning up with a couple passes plus the scraper.

-Erich

[Robert Hazelwood]

I had to do this on some chinese birch plywood shelves. I could only find 3/4" iron-on banding at BORG and the plywood was 1/2". I tried it with hand planes at first, and planed through the veneer in several spots (thankfully I did the undersides first!), then pretty much abandoned the handplanes. Even one shaving on the plywood would pretty much eat through the top veneer. So I would take a few passes to get some of the gross excess off, but how I mostly finished it was with a big mill bastard file. I taped a piece of cardboard to the end of the file, then placed the cardboard on the plywood face and skewed the file so the handle end hung off the edge. Then, I could take planing strokes down the length with the cardboard skating on the face and be pretty assured I wouldn't eat the veneer. Finished up with some 220 grit paper. Worked pretty well, really.

When I had to do a second batch of these shelves, I just used a bottom bearing flush trim bit in a router. I had to build a little jig to provide a fence to register the router on the face of the plywood, since I did not trust myself to balance the router on a 1/2" edge. That worked nicely, just had to clean up with 220 grit paper.

EDIT: Crap. You're talking about 1-1/2" edging, not iron on banding. So a file is probably not going to get the job done very well, ha. I think if you've got plywood shelves, the router is the tool for the job.

[lowell holmes]

I still would use my Veritas cast round spokeshave for this. It takes translucent shavings and you can avoid getting the veneer on the ply wood.
You can keep remarkable control of the shaving without hitting wood under it.